Pricing Mithral Items (One FAQ to rule them all?)


Rules Questions

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Count me with mdt/other.

I think, though, that those who vote "other" are also voting for the 252, the only difference is that they are adding the masterwork cost.

BigDTBone's (if I can speak for you, Biggie) reason for throwing in with the 502, for example, was exclusively for a non-Errata'd version, because, lacking errata, that's the closest to the final price all the "other-ists" think it should be.

With errata, he would prefer the 252 cost (but with the 300 masterwork cost).

If a mithril dagger were able to be crafted as a non-masterwork item, I would definitely side with the 252 price. Since it's not, I choose the "other" (yielding mithril + masterwork).

In any event:

Dagger - 1g (any size)
Mwk Dagger - 301g (any size)
Mithril Dagger - 252g (or 127g, if small)
Mwk Mithril Dagger - 552g (or 427g, if small)

I think that's correct. It's 4AM here, so I dunno.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:


In any event:

Dagger - 1g (any size)
Mwk Dagger - 301g (any size)
Mithril Dagger - 252g (or 127g, if small)
Mwk Mithril Dagger - 552g (or 427g, if small)

I think that's correct. It's 4AM here, so I dunno.

Not quite what I was arguing for. If it's Mithril, it's MW, so there's no difference between Mithral and MW Mithral.

Dagger - 1g (Medium)
Mwk Dagger - 301g (Medium)
Mithril Dagger - 301g (Medium)

For small versions, subtract half a gold, for large versions, add a gold.


mdt wrote:

Not quite what I was arguing for. If it's Mithril, it's MW, so there's no difference between Mithral and MW Mithral.

Dagger - 1g (Medium)
Mwk Dagger - 301g (Medium)
Mithril Dagger - 301g (Medium)

For small versions, subtract half a gold, for large versions, add a gold.

Sorry, yes. I knew you weren't arguing the 252g directly. I was just unclear. The reason I made the chart was to point out the difference in pricing.

However, I got my impression from:

mdt wrote:

Thus my 'other' statement.

Cost = Maximum of Masterwork + Weapon or Mithral + weapon.

... which to me reads a lot like what I wrote above, but now I see you were focusing on:

mdt wrote:

The only way to handle this is that the 'minimum' cost is based off the most expensive component (Masterwork or Mithral depending on weight).

Meh. It was four AM here. My reading comprehension wasn't exactly at its highest. :)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

No biggie. :) Just clarifying :)


I'm of the opinion (and i've stated it in the thread before) that the masterwork descriptor should scale with the item as a home rule, that really would work better than the current system. At masterwork cost being 20x the base cost, said dagger scales would be:

Steel Dagger (Medium) - 2gp

Steel Masterwork Dagger (Medium)- 42gp

Mithril Masterwork Dagger (Medium) - 292gp
.
.
.
.
.

With this scale all of a sudden picking up a brace of masterwork steel daggers is worth it for concealed weapons you could use as throwing daggers in a pinch too.


You know, i was just thinking about how if armor was priced by material weight in it, the item costs would be totally different from where they currently are.

A Mithril shirt (10 pounds) for example would need 5,000gp worth of mithril to make. Thats a huge difference from its 1,100gp price... Judging by its price, the mithril shirt only has 2 pounds of mithril in it.

You could make SO much money buying mithril shirts and melting them down into mithril trade bars... D&D you fail at economics and item pricing forever...

Adamantine chain shirts cost 5100gp by the rules, but if you went by weight to cost, it would cost 7500gp worth of adamantine to make.

If you actually priced special material armors out properly, it makes enchanting bracers of armor nearly cost effective in many instances. +4 bracers cost only 8000gp to make after all. Thats not much more expensive than an adamant chain shirt would cost.

Adamantine full plate is EXACTLY on the money for material costs. +15,000 gp for adamant full plate is exactly 50 pounds of adamant.


JTibbs wrote:
You know, i was just thinking about how if armor was priced by material weight in it, the item costs would be totally different from where they currently are...

yes, going by cost per gram, young's modulus, melting point, oxidation concerns, workability and manufacturing process, combined with Craft DCs would yield a better formula... BUT (that was a big but) we already have rules in place that most people are happy with...

I think for a home game that would be great. Years ago I did that using MITRE's formula reworked for my campaign. All I got was blank looks from my players... lol...


I shall be contrarian. 552 gp. 2 for the dagger, 300 for the MW and 250 for the Mithral.

Put me as other. (and FAQed)


Faqed.

Put me in 502 for dagger.

But the real question is will this solve the cost of Mithral barding too?

Is Mithral barding chain shirt for a large horse 1400gp or 4400gp?


realisticly if something is priced by weight it has to be the end result's weight not what it would be when it was constructed in a difrent aloy

just imagine gooing to a blacksmith

buyer: "hey what would it cost me to make me a mithril dagger"
BS: "oh lets say 500g/pound in adition to the cost of a normal one"
buyer" oh sweet make one for me then"
bs here you go a 1 pound mithril dagger now thats 502g
buyer: how come this dagger weighs the same as a normal one?
bs "oh no it doesnt is weighs only 1/2 a pound
buyer: so you let me pay for a 1 pound dagger as you agreed on 500g/pound and this dagger only weighs 1/2 a pound?
bs: yes because a normal dagger weighs 1 pound that is why 502g
buyer: but I am not buying a normal dagger I am buying a 1/2 pound dagger!
bs: euhm well you see i forgot about mithrill weighing half a normal dagger and, and, and,.....
buyer: so you agree on the 500g/pound price but want to charge me for a whole pound instead of the 1/2 pound im buying?


Darkflame wrote:

realisticly if something is priced by weight it has to be the end result's weight not what it would be when it was constructed in a difrent aloy

just imagine gooing to a blacksmith

buyer: "hey what would it cost me to make me a mithril dagger"
BS: "oh lets say 500g/pound in adition to the cost of a normal one"
buyer" oh sweet make one for me then"
bs here you go a 1 pound mithril dagger now thats 502g
buyer: how come this dagger weighs the same as a normal one?
bs "oh no it doesnt is weighs only 1/2 a pound
buyer: so you let me pay for a 1 pound dagger as you agreed on 500g/pound and this dagger only weighs 1/2 a pound?
bs: yes because a normal dagger weighs 1 pound that is why 502g
buyer: but I am not buying a normal dagger I am buying a 1/2 pound dagger!
bs: euhm well you see i forgot about mithrill weighing half a normal dagger and, and, and,.....
buyer: so you agree on the 500g/pound price but want to charge me for a whole pound instead of the 1/2 pound im buying?

I don't think anyone here would disagree with you. The question is does the game do it that way? If so, how do you reconcile the fact that the cost for a mithril dagger which automatically includes masterwork status costs less that a steel masterwork dagger?

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

OMGosh, 89 FAQ hits! I can't say
I've ever seen that many on one topic before.

So far the votes are:

252gp: 6 (unless Darkflame makes 7?)

502gp: 11

Other: 3


Darkflame wrote:

realisticly if something is priced by weight it has to be the end result's weight not what it would be when it was constructed in a difrent aloy

just imagine gooing to a blacksmith

buyer: "hey what would it cost me to make me a mithril dagger"
BS: "oh lets say 500g/pound in adition to the cost of a normal one"
buyer" oh sweet make one for me then"
bs here you go a 1 pound mithril dagger now thats 502g
buyer: how come this dagger weighs the same as a normal one?
bs "oh no it doesnt is weighs only 1/2 a pound
buyer: so you let me pay for a 1 pound dagger as you agreed on 500g/pound and this dagger only weighs 1/2 a pound?
bs: yes because a normal dagger weighs 1 pound that is why 502g
buyer: but I am not buying a normal dagger I am buying a 1/2 pound dagger!
bs: euhm well you see i forgot about mithrill weighing half a normal dagger and, and, and,.....
buyer: so you agree on the 500g/pound price but want to charge me for a whole pound instead of the 1/2 pound im buying?

If the price per pound is an actual in-game reference, and not a mechanics, you example makes sense. But we might as well turn it around.

Buyer: "Hey, I'd like to buy a Mithral dagger. I know the prices, and I'll pay you 252 hp for it!"
BS: "Let me just take a look at it sir. That project would take me around 6 weeks.
Buyer: "No problem, good man, I'll return in 5-10 levels"
BS: "Wait up... Looking a the numbers, I need to pay 250 gp and 66 cp for the materials... So you want me to work 6 weeks for a profit of 133 copper?"
Buyer: "Right you are, sir! You can't expect ME to pay for YOUR work!"


HaraldKlak wrote:
Darkflame wrote:

realisticly if something is priced by weight it has to be the end result's weight not what it would be when it was constructed in a difrent aloy

just imagine gooing to a blacksmith

buyer: "hey what would it cost me to make me a mithril dagger"
BS: "oh lets say 500g/pound in adition to the cost of a normal one"
buyer" oh sweet make one for me then"
bs here you go a 1 pound mithril dagger now thats 502g
buyer: how come this dagger weighs the same as a normal one?
bs "oh no it doesnt is weighs only 1/2 a pound
buyer: so you let me pay for a 1 pound dagger as you agreed on 500g/pound and this dagger only weighs 1/2 a pound?
bs: yes because a normal dagger weighs 1 pound that is why 502g
buyer: but I am not buying a normal dagger I am buying a 1/2 pound dagger!
bs: euhm well you see i forgot about mithrill weighing half a normal dagger and, and, and,.....
buyer: so you agree on the 500g/pound price but want to charge me for a whole pound instead of the 1/2 pound im buying?

If the price per pound is an actual in-game reference, and not a mechanics, you example makes sense. But we might as well turn it around.

Buyer: "Hey, I'd like to buy a Mithral dagger. I know the prices, and I'll pay you 252 hp for it!"
BS: "Let me just take a look at it sir. That project would take me around 6 weeks.
Buyer: "No problem, good man, I'll return in 5-10 levels"
BS: "Wait up... Looking a the numbers, I need to pay 250 gp and 66 cp for the materials... So you want me to work 6 weeks for a profit of 133 copper?"
Buyer: "Right you are, sir! You can't expect ME to pay for YOUR work!"

well, seeing as mithril is a trade good, and equivilent to platinum...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The craftsman needs 1/3 the final price in raw materials.

So if it's 252, then the parts cost 84 gp, and the craftsman makes the rest in profit for 6 weeks work.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

502gp for medium, 252gp for small


mdt wrote:

The craftsman needs 1/3 the final price in raw materials.

So if it's 252, then the parts cost 84 gp, and the craftsman makes the rest in profit for 6 weeks work.

They need 1/3 the materials for the armor and a flat cost cor special materials. For mithril chain shirt u would need 1/3rd of the materials for the chain shirt and 1000g for the mithril which would come out 1033g and not 366g for it since u don't do a 1/3 of the special material cost.

I'm gonna say I'm in the grp of 502g. You are starting off with a product that is 1 pound but the end result of the special quality makes the dagger weight less. I think we factor in the items weight BEFORE milthril gets added to it to factor the cost. Reason why I'm with 502g and not 552g is because the masterwork is already included in the price.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Redneckdevil wrote:
mdt wrote:

The craftsman needs 1/3 the final price in raw materials.

So if it's 252, then the parts cost 84 gp, and the craftsman makes the rest in profit for 6 weeks work.

They need 1/3 the materials for the armor and a flat cost cor special materials. For mithril chain shirt u would need 1/3rd of the materials for the chain shirt and 1000g for the mithril which would come out 1033g and not 366g for it since u don't do a 1/3 of the special material cost.

I'm gonna say I'm in the grp of 502g. You are starting off with a product that is 1 pound but the end result of the special quality makes the dagger weight less. I think we factor in the items weight BEFORE milthril gets added to it to factor the cost. Reason why I'm with 502g and not 552g is because the masterwork is already included in the price.

I'm not sure where you are seeing that from. The special materials section lists a modifier to the item price. The crafting rules say that items require 1/3rd the final price in raw materials. Nothing in there says you pay full price for the special materials when crafting.


mdt wrote:

The craftsman needs 1/3 the final price in raw materials.

So if it's 252, then the parts cost 84 gp, and the craftsman makes the rest in profit for 6 weeks work.

This is how it is normally done, yes.

But applying it in this case, makes it very inconsistant with the trade good prices of mithral. So result is that people trading in mithral pays 500 gp for a pound, but if they sell it to a craftsman they only a third.

If we use the original weight, then there is a slight inconsistancy in that the crafter only earn half the material costs (similar to magic item creation).


HaraldKlak wrote:
mdt wrote:

The craftsman needs 1/3 the final price in raw materials.

So if it's 252, then the parts cost 84 gp, and the craftsman makes the rest in profit for 6 weeks work.

This is how it is normally done, yes.

But applying it in this case, makes it very inconsistant with the trade good prices of mithral. So result is that people trading in mithral pays 500 gp for a pound, but if they sell it to a craftsman they only a third.

If we use the original weight, then there is a slight inconsistancy in that the crafter only earn half the material costs (similar to magic item creation).

Two points with this:

1) NPCs are expected to sell things at full prices instead of half-prices (it's because they have a shop)

2) If you're selling something to a craftsman, wouldn't you be selling it to them normally at a reduced rate anyway?

3) I feel like I'm missing a point here. I apologize for me poor reading comprehension. :/


well I would have to say the 502g. We all know that the crafting rules are not that good and need to be changed. And that is why crafting is not allowed in PFS.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So in other words, your house rule? Ok, that's fine. Please note when you're discussing a house rule vs RAW.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Pretty sure that puts us up to:

252gp: 7

502gp: 14

Other: 3

Although this is a small sample size, the ratio has consistently hovered around 2:1 in favor of the 502gp price. I love statistics. I wonder if the trend will remain the same?


the issue is density... c'mon people...

The game doesn't get THAT detailed. It's just cost per pound. The masterwork was thrown in as the cost was expected to be high in most cases.
For small daggers the weight drives the scalar below the minimum for masterwork quality in weapons(300). As the rules stand now a 1/2lb mithral weapon costs 500*1/2 + weapon cost. For a dagger(1/2lb) that's 252. For a small dagger (1/4lb) that's 500*1/4 +2 or 127. The masterwork gets thrown in.
Once you up that dagger to +1 (+2000) it jumps up to 2252 or 2127 which is more in line with other items.
So we are really talking about a dip in the overall pricing scheme of things for SMALL mithral items. It's not a big deal.

The easiest fix is to insist on masterwork + weapon price as a minimum cost in your home game. This means small items will tend to be mithral rather than steel, IF players want that. no biggie.


Put me down for "other".

The problem with going by weight is you're going to get some crazy price swings. I think some mithral 2 handers might even be as expensive as adamantine.

Then there's going to be people arguing that half of the mithral great axe weight is from it's wooden handle...

To keep things simple (but unrealistic but simple) just give the mithral weapon a flat add on cost. My suggest would be -
Base weapon + masterwork + 1000gp mithral cost.

PS. Also wanted to correct a earlier post. Mithral also counts as silver besides its extra hardness and HP.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Anybody know of any other examples, besides Wreath of Blades, where a Mithral item was priced using the non-Mithral weight? Ever since UE I think there are now more examples using the post-Mithral weight.


mdt wrote:
Redneckdevil wrote:
mdt wrote:

The craftsman needs 1/3 the final price in raw materials.

So if it's 252, then the parts cost 84 gp, and the craftsman makes the rest in profit for 6 weeks work.

They need 1/3 the materials for the armor and a flat cost cor special materials. For mithril chain shirt u would need 1/3rd of the materials for the chain shirt and 1000g for the mithril which would come out 1033g and not 366g for it since u don't do a 1/3 of the special material cost.

I'm gonna say I'm in the grp of 502g. You are starting off with a product that is 1 pound but the end result of the special quality makes the dagger weight less. I think we factor in the items weight BEFORE milthril gets added to it to factor the cost. Reason why I'm with 502g and not 552g is because the masterwork is already included in the price.

I'm not sure where you are seeing that from. The special materials section lists a modifier to the item price. The crafting rules say that items require 1/3rd the final price in raw materials. Nothing in there says you pay full price for the special materials when crafting.

Gah u are completely right. Sigh, this is what I get for speed reading lol.


I already FAQ checked this but it need to be set to a flat rate for weapon just like admantium. Let's say like say 400 to 800 gp. more expensive then master work, but a lot less costly then admantinum.


mdt wrote:
So in other words, your house rule? Ok, that's fine. Please note when you're discussing a house rule vs RAW.

I'm sorry. My reading comprehension in this thread is off, apparently. Are you talking to HaraldKlak, me, or Heaggles?

Silver Crusade

First, when PF gave mithral weapons the ability to bypass DR/silver (and thus giving warriors a proper reason to have mithral weapons), they should've given a flat price (like adamantine) or price by category (like alchemical silver).

This would match the rest of the system, and avoid absurdities like bigger mithral weapons being more expensive than adamantine and small mithral weapons being cheaper than masterwork.

And this problem does not go away if you charge double the weight! It just sleightly shifts when the absurdities occur! That point just happens to be 1lb, the weight of a normal dagger. You might think that charging for the weight of a steel version solves a problem, but the problem remains for every weapon that doesn't weigh exactly one pound! The '502gp' is not a solution!

And it remains absurd. The 500gp/lb price for mithral items is for a finished item made from mithral, not the price of the raw material (or the RAW material. Heh.)

If I go into Ye Olde Rare Metals Shoppe and mithral weapons are advertised at 500gp/lb, and I choose a longsword (weight of mithral longsword = 2lb) then I expect to pay 1315gp. If I get charged 2315gp, based on how much it doesn't weigh, I'm going to show the shopkeeper how a longsword can also be used as an impromptu suppository!

'But sir, if it were made of steel it'd weigh four pounds!'

'And if it were made out of paper it'd weigh almost nothing! It's not made out of paper, it's not made out of steel, it's made out of mithral and mithral weapons cost 500gp for each pound that they weigh!'

Really, if I were buying a pound of cheese would I expect to pay for it based on how much the same volume of something else would weigh?

However, this doesn't solve the problem of extreme cases any more than charging double does. Therefore, a fix that actually would fix it is this:-

* minimum cost for mithral weapon = +500gp, regardless of actual weight

* maximum cost for mithral weapon = +2000gp, regardless of actual weight

The price per pound remains sane, and the smaller weapons are more expensive than their masterwork equivalent (they should be, they ignore DR/silver and have hardness 15), and the bigger weapons are cheaper than adamantine (they should be; adamantine is better).

Not as good as rewriting mithral weapons as suggested above (flat priced like adamantine/silver), but easily do-able using the current rules:-

* +500gp/lb of actual weight, minimum +500gp, maximum +2000gp

Easy, intuitive, balanced.


Actually I've been looking and darkleaf and darkwood are also make their items weigh half as much. Darkleaf doesn't give insight but darkwood on the other hand says to figure out the cost, use the normal weight and add 10g per pound.
So since darkwood also makes wooden items weight half as much as original but for crafting costs, u have to use the normal weight of the item and then add the cost of darkwood means that with mithril items, u gotta go by the original weight then add the mithril costs based on the original.


Redneckdevil wrote:

Actually I've been looking and darkleaf and darkwood are also make their items weigh half as much. Darkleaf doesn't give insight but darkwood on the other hand says to figure out the cost, use the normal weight and add 10g per pound.

So since darkwood also makes wooden items weight half as much as original but for crafting costs, u have to use the normal weight of the item and then add the cost of darkwood means that with mithril items, u gotta go by the original weight then add the mithril costs based on the original.

this is the other way to go.

it still doesn't address the scalar issue as a small dagger will be under the 300 mark.

all in all it's not a biggie either way.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

We've reached 100 FAQ hits!!


Azothath wrote:
Redneckdevil wrote:

Actually I've been looking and darkleaf and darkwood are also make their items weigh half as much. Darkleaf doesn't give insight but darkwood on the other hand says to figure out the cost, use the normal weight and add 10g per pound.

So since darkwood also makes wooden items weight half as much as original but for crafting costs, u have to use the normal weight of the item and then add the cost of darkwood means that with mithril items, u gotta go by the original weight then add the mithril costs based on the original.

this is the other way to go.

it still doesn't address the scalar issue as a small dagger will be under the 300 mark.

all in all it's not a biggie either way.

But it answers the question about a medium size dagger being 502g. Since both mithril and darkwood makes their items weight half as much, a light darkwood shield would cost 3g (for the light wooden shield) + 50g (light shield wieghts 5pds x 10g per pound) even though the end result will end up only weighting 2.5pds u are still getting charged for the original 5pds.

It would be the same with a dagger (costs 2g) + 500g (because the dagger weights 1pd) even though the end results weight half a pound.


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Nefreet wrote:
We've reached 100 FAQ hits!!

"She can'na' take much more 'a this cap'n!"

Sovereign Court

502gp.

All special materials pricing should be based off of weight. As it stands, you have weight, flat rate or double base. The special materials pricing really makes no sense.


Redneckdevil wrote:
Azothath wrote:
Redneckdevil wrote:

Actually I've been looking and darkleaf and darkwood are also make their items weigh half as much. Darkleaf doesn't give insight but darkwood on the other hand says to figure out the cost, use the normal weight and add 10g per pound.

So since darkwood also makes wooden items weight half as much as original but for crafting costs, u have to use the normal weight of the item and then add the cost of darkwood means that with mithril items, u gotta go by the original weight then add the mithril costs based on the original.

this is the other way to go.

it still doesn't address the scalar issue as a small dagger will be under the 300 mark.

all in all it's not a biggie either way.

But it answers the question about a medium size dagger being 502g. Since both mithril and darkwood makes their items weight half as much, a light darkwood shield would cost 3g (for the light wooden shield) + 50g (light shield wieghts 5pds x 10g per pound) even though the end result will end up only weighting 2.5pds u are still getting charged for the original 5pds.

It would be the same with a dagger (costs 2g) + 500g (because the dagger weights 1pd) even though the end results weight half a pound.

Although good reasoning, that's not entirely as solid as I'd like.

One problem is that you can't by darkleaf "by the pound". I'm not sure off the top of my head about darkwood, and a toddler climbing on me makes it diffficult to type, so I'm not going to be looking that up right now. But is there one that gives you price by weight?


Darkwood say to find out the cost, u take the original weight and multiply it by 10g per pound. Darkwood also makes the end result weight half as much but says that u have to use the original item becore darkwood is applied weight to figure out the cost.
Also u can buy darkleaf by the pound, its 375g per pound.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tacticslion wrote:
mdt wrote:
So in other words, your house rule? Ok, that's fine. Please note when you're discussing a house rule vs RAW.
I'm sorry. My reading comprehension in this thread is off, apparently. Are you talking to HaraldKlak, me, or Heaggles?

Sorry, HaraldKlak. :)

Silver Crusade

Redneckdevil wrote:

Actually I've been looking and darkleaf and darkwood are also make their items weigh half as much. Darkleaf doesn't give insight but darkwood on the other hand says to figure out the cost, use the normal weight and add 10g per pound.

So since darkwood also makes wooden items weight half as much as original but for crafting costs, u have to use the normal weight of the item and then add the cost of darkwood means that with mithril items, u gotta go by the original weight then add the mithril costs based on the original.

Darkwood says to use the original weight.

Mithral doesn't.

Mithral says that items made out of mithral cost +500gp/lb. Therefore, if the mithral object weighs one pound then you can buy it for 500gp more than a non-mithral version.

Specific>general. The rules for darkwood apply to darkwood, not mithral.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Redneckdevil wrote:

Actually I've been looking and darkleaf and darkwood are also make their items weigh half as much. Darkleaf doesn't give insight but darkwood on the other hand says to figure out the cost, use the normal weight and add 10g per pound.

So since darkwood also makes wooden items weight half as much as original but for crafting costs, u have to use the normal weight of the item and then add the cost of darkwood means that with mithril items, u gotta go by the original weight then add the mithril costs based on the original.

Darkwood says to use the original weight.

Mithral doesn't.

Mithral says that items made out of mithral cost +500gp/lb. Therefore, if the mithral object weighs one pound then you can buy it for 500gp more than a non-mithral version.

Specific>general. The rules for darkwood apply to darkwood, not mithral.

This is the trick and why I wasn't certain of what you were saying. Because mithril gives its price by the weight of mithril (as noted in the acquisition of mithril), it uses different rules than darkwood which uses pricing rules by the weight of the original item.

mdt wrote:
Sorry, HaraldKlak. :)

Not a problem at all. I'm just trying to keep up with things. It's a bit hard for me in this thread for some reason.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Redneckdevil wrote:

Actually I've been looking and darkleaf and darkwood are also make their items weigh half as much. Darkleaf doesn't give insight but darkwood on the other hand says to figure out the cost, use the normal weight and add 10g per pound.

So since darkwood also makes wooden items weight half as much as original but for crafting costs, u have to use the normal weight of the item and then add the cost of darkwood means that with mithril items, u gotta go by the original weight then add the mithril costs based on the original.

Darkwood says to use the original weight.

Mithral doesn't.

Mithral says that items made out of mithral cost +500gp/lb. Therefore, if the mithral object weighs one pound then you can buy it for 500gp more than a non-mithral version.

Specific>general. The rules for darkwood apply to darkwood, not mithral.

Do Special materials follow the rules for crafting masterwork items since they are considered masterwork? If so then it actually is general since masterwork is created seperately than the item thats getting masterwork on it. Meaning u are creating a dagger that weights 1 pd and u are using 1 pd of mithril to add to to that dagger (masterwork rules)

If we wanna get even more specific, the list that says 500g per pound says "types" of mithril items. If its light armor u are making mithril of, then u add 1000g to reg price. If its tyep of items, u add 500g to the weight of that type of item.

A mithril dagger becomes half a pound AFTER u apply mithril to it. U don't start off with a dagger that weights 1/2 a pound and add mithril to it because then mithril makes that dagger 1/4 of a pound. The half weight is a special quality that mithril Gives an item.

But again that's based on if u go by the masterwork rules of working the actual item and apply the the material (masterwork) separately and not together because how do u apply the masterwork cost to the item when the masterwork is added into the cost of the material?

But I've been wrong many times before though and hopefully we get a faq on this soon.

Silver Crusade

But you don't start off with a steel dagger then add mithral!

It's mithral from the start! It always weighed half a pound!

According to the general rules, you cannot make an already existing non-masterwork item into a masterwork item, it must be made as a masterwork item as it was being made. Items made from special materials are likewise made that way, not added to an item made out of steel then added later!

Silver Crusade

@Redneckdevil: you seem to think that you get a steel dagger, nail some mithral to it and the extra mithral somehow magically makes the steel weigh half as much!

That is not the case. The dagger is originally constructed from mithral instead of steel. Since mithral weighs half as much as steel, items made from mithral weigh half as much as they would than if they were made of steel.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

But you don't start off with a steel dagger then add mithral!

It's mithral from the start! It always weighed half a pound!

According to the general rules, you cannot make an already existing non-masterwork item into a masterwork item, it must be made as a masterwork item as it was being made. Items made from special materials are likewise made that way, not added to an item made out of steel then added later!

I'm sry if its coming off like that but that's not what I mean. If u look at the rules for crafting masterwork items, its 2 seperate crafting the item and the masterwork properties. Its 2 seperate rolls when making a masterwork item from scratch but u don't finish the item until both the item and the masterwork part done seperately are done. When crafting a masterwork dagger from scratch u don't just do a single roll on the item at the cost of 100.333g, u do 2 seperate rolls on the dagger and one on the masterwork. That's why I was wondering if since the special materials count as masterwork if they follow the same rules.

Also looking at the table it lists "types" of mithril items. U can also if u loon at it see one side as the type before u add mithril and the other side is the cost to ADD mithril. So the light/medium/heavy armor are types of those and the other side to get what u are wanting is the cost to get the mithril armor. Best way to exain is look at the table as a math problem.
Light armor + 1000g of mithril = mithril light armor.
Items + 500g per pound of that item = mithril item.
You could actually loom at the list and see that the price per pound is not actually per pound of mithril, but per pound cost of the item ur making. Meaning that 500g technically isn't the price of the actual mithril per pound but the cost of mithril for per pound of the item. Make sens?

Silver Crusade

The column says 'Types of mithral Item', so the item is mithral as it is weighed!


The chart shows the prices. If the price is 1000g added to the cost of the type of light armor and u get the price for light mithril type armor, then the 500g per pound is talking about the base item before its made into a mithril item.
Why is it different that u are adding 1000g to the base price of the light armor but when it says 500g per pound u are determining that weight by the mithril item and not the base item?

Sigh it makes a lot of sense in my head but I'm not very good with words. Ill wait on the faq to see the result.

Paizo Employee Official Rules Response

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FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9r9u

Mithral: What weight do I use to determine the price of a mithral weapon or non-armor item?

To determine the additional price for the mithral (as compared to the normal item's price), use the non-mithral item's original weight and multiply that by 500 gp per pound.

For example, a steel dagger for a Medium creature weighs 1 pound. For its mithral equivalent, multiply that weight (1 lb.) times 500 gp/pound, or +500 gp. When added to the original item's cost (2 gp), the mithral dagger's total price is 502 gp.

There are likely some inconsistent mithral item prices in print, and these will be addressed in future printings of these books, as appropriate.

Paizo Employee Official Rules Response

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Followup: Yes, this means you can get a Small mithral (masterwork) dagger for 252 gp. It only deals 1d3 damage, so it's not really something to worry about.


Pathfinder Design Team wrote:

FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9r9u

Mithral: What weight do I use to determine the price of a mithral weapon or non-armor item?

To determine the additional price for the mithral (as compared to the normal item's price), use the non-mithral item's original weight and multiply that by 500 gp per pound.

For example, a steel dagger for a Medium creature weighs 1 pound. For its mithral equivalent, multiply that weight (1 lb.) times 500 gp/pound, or +500 gp. When added to the original item's cost (2 gp), the mithral dagger's total price is 502 gp.

There are likely some inconsistent mithral item prices in print, and these will be addressed in future printings of these books, as appropriate.

Thank you for the official response, dev team! We appreciate you taking the time to deliberate and answer.

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