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| 6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Here is the text for the discovery. So as far as I understand it works like this, assuming an INT modifier of +5 and currently have 4d6 bomb damage.
I throw a bomb, and it does 1d6+5, and then 6 damage a turn for 3 additional turns. Easy, but what if I throw multiple bombs?
Same numbers, but now I throw 3 bombs.
* Each bomb does 1d6+5, and the Damage over Time (DoT) stacks, so each turn the target takes 3*6 = 18 damage per turn for 3 additional turns
OR
* Each bomb does 1d6+5, and the Damage over Time (DoT) does not stack, so each turn the target takes only 6 damage per turn for 3 additional turns.
Since this is for a society character, I would appreciate sources from rulebooks/developer posts/FAQ's so that I can use to back me up if someone at a table asks me.
EDIT: I thought of a similar example to ponder on. If 2 alchemist fires are thrown on the same enemy, does it take 2d6 on both the initial hit and the burning on the next round?
I think you mistook the "splash" damage, which would be 6 damage applied to adjacent creatures, not the target, and mistakenly applied it to the ongoing damage each round. That would be wrong. Your Immolation Bomb 1d6+5 damage every round to the target and deals 6 damage to anyone standing adjacent to that target when the bomb hits and also each round at the start of your turn while the original target is still burning. This splash damage (6 damage) might affect different targets each round - it doesn't linger over time the way the primary effect lingers on the target, it simply does 6 damage to anyone nearby at the start of each of your turns.
To answer your stacking question, the CRB sort-of says "Spells normally do not stack with themselves."
However...
The CRB pretty much exclusively talks about bonuses, not damage. Here's the full quote:
Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don't stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above).
Different Bonus Types
The bonuses or penalties from two different spells stack if the modifiers are of different types. A bonus that doesn't have a type stacks with any bonus.
Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths
In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the one with the highest strength applies.
Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
I failed to find anything directly relevant to stacking damage spells, so the above is the closest rule I could find.
1. Spells generally don't stack with themselves.
2. If the effects are different strengths, only the strongest applies (which infers that if they're the same strengths, only the strongest - one of the identical effects - applies)
3. Usually the last spell in a series trumps the others - this means that if you keep throwing them, you'll "reset" the duration based on the last Immolation Bomb that lands.
All of this can be assumed to apply to damage over time effects, too, though it is not explicitly stated.
Also, by way of confirmation, Poisons that do damage over time do not stack either, although they do extend the duration and increase the save DC.
Given these rules, I'm very much inclined to say that you cannot stack your Immolation Bombs. But then, I'm extrapolating from RAW rather than citing it, so take that for whatever it's worth.
I would have to disagree about stacking damage. If you cast two fireball spell, I would assume both deal damage. Multiple bombs should certainly stack. DM Blake is correct about the damage, though. 1d6+5 every round, not just the first.
Not the same thing. Stacking only applies when discussing ongoing effects.
Fireballs are instantaneous. Their effects do not stack, since each fireball is fully applied separately and each instantaneous fireball effect is finished before you apply the next fireball's instantaneous effect.
Clearly, assuming the Immolation Bomb should not stack makes it an undesirable tactic to apply it more than once to any target since you'll lose damage on the first bomb when it is overridden by the second one. If you want to hit the same target with two bombs, make one of them a normal bomb (or use a different discovery if you wish) and then make the other one an Immolation Bomb.
If the OP's alchemist throws one normal bomb (4d6+5, instantaneous so it's fully applied before the next bomb hits) followed by an Immolation Bomb (1d6+5 for four rounds), then all the damage will be applied.
What about acid arrow then? It's ongoing. Would it not stack? What if it were cast by two different people, would only one work?
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Acid arrow is another good example. This also begs the question, what if 2 different alchemists each threw an immolation bomb, would the damage then stack?
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Another thing to consider when looking at the section of spells stacking is that bombs are supernatural abilities, not spells. I understand you extrapolated, but still the two are fundamentally different.
Also, by way of confirmation, Poisons that do damage over time do not stack either, although they do extend the duration and increase the save DC.
I think this might be the best interpretation, where multiple bombs simply extend the duration. It's kinda hard to be more "on fire".
This often comes up with spells like wall of fire and cloudkill, if cast at the same spot multiple times. Can your all-caster party plant four cloudkills in the same area and require affected creatures to take a total of as much as 4d4 Con damage each round (four separate saves to halve each die's worth of damage)?
I would say damage should stack, since it's the bomb's main damage, just spread out over multiple turns. And the text about stacking spell effects seems to be aimed at bonuses, I don't see any reference to stacking damage, so I would let the discovery text function as is. However that is just my take on it. This could use clarification so I'm hitting FAQ.
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This has come up a few times for my players as well. I'm torn between the "Same effect name shouldn't stack" and "Lengthens duration" arguments myself. It does seem the full damage of d6+mod should repeat per round though, since the text states that people around the target take the mod damage. Clarification or a rules source for supernatural effects stacking would be awesome
This has come up a few times for my players as well. I'm torn between the "Same effect name shouldn't stack" and "Lengthens duration" arguments myself. It does seem the full damage of d6+mod should repeat per round though, since the text states that people around the target take the mod damage. Clarification or a rules source for supernatural effects stacking would be awesome
That's my main argument for the "extend duration" version. You really can't be more "on fire", unless a source is hotter than another. I can also see that same reasoning used to decide the effects do not stack at all. Considering that damage over time is usually vastly inferior to direct damage, having it extend the duration seems like the overall most fair solution.