pc turns to stone is then bull-rushed off 100 foot tower. Is the falling damage changed? is there a check/roll to see if he breaks in pieces? just wondering....thanks guys!!!
I'd say he's effectively made of stone, so he take half damage from falling. At least I would rule this way.
Apply stone's hardness of 8 to the falling damage. Ignore all nonlethal damage. A fairly easy Acrobatics check lets him ignore the first 10 feet and convert the second 10 feet to nonlethal, which is ignored since he's currently an object. That leaves you with 8d6 damage if he's falling onto rock or something similarly hard. That deals 28 damage on average before hardness, so he's likely to take about 20 damage.
If he's falling on something yielding like mud or soft ground, another 1d6 is converted to nonlethal and thus ignored. Average goes down to 16.5.
If he's falling into water 10 feet deep or deeper, then the first 20 feet do no damage and the next 20 feet are nonlethal, which also do no damage to the stone statue. That gives you 6d6, with an average of 21 before hardness, or 13 after hardness.
As for whether he breaks into pieces, RAW, not unless he takes enough HP damage to kill him. No matter how much damage someone takes, they continue functioning perfectly and stay in one piece until they get to 0 or negative Con. Although since I've been treating him as an object for the purposes of hardness and nonlethal damage, it'd be fair to say that he can gain the broken and destroyed conditions if the falling damage reduces him to half or 0 HP.
If you don't want to treat him as an object, then he's still subject to nonlethal damage, but not being broken or destroyed until he hits negative Con. As for his hardness, up to you in this case.
A fairly easy Acrobatics check lets him ignore the first 10 feet and convert the second 10 feet to nonlethal, which is ignored since he's currently an object.
I don't think you can make that Acrobatics check if you're petrified.
A fairly easy Acrobatics check lets him ignore the first 10 feet and convert the second 10 feet to nonlethal, which is ignored since he's currently an object.I don't think you can make that Acrobatics check if you're petrified.
Heh, that's what SlimGauge is saying. He is ignoring the Acrobatics check.
scary as hell for the pc who is about to be pushed off a ledge while looking like a statue...lol ty for posts!!!
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Apply stone's hardness of 8 to the falling damage. Ignore all nonlethal damage. A fairly easy Acrobatics check lets him ignore the first 10 feet and convert the second 10 feet to nonlethal, which is ignored since he's currently an object. That leaves you with 8d6 damage if he's falling onto rock or something similarly hard. That deals 28 damage on average before hardness, so he's likely to take about 20 damage.
If he's falling on something yielding like mud or soft ground, another 1d6 is converted to nonlethal and thus ignored. Average goes down to 16.5.
If he's falling into water 10 feet deep or deeper, then the first 20 feet do no damage and the next 20 feet are nonlethal, which also do no damage to the stone statue. That gives you 6d6, with an average of 21 before hardness, or 13 after hardness.
As for whether he breaks into pieces, RAW, not unless he takes enough HP damage to kill him. No matter how much damage someone takes, they continue functioning perfectly and stay in one piece until they get to 0 or negative Con. Although since I've been treating him as an object for the purposes of hardness and nonlethal damage, it'd be fair to say that he can gain the broken and destroyed conditions if the falling damage reduces him to half or 0 HP.
If you don't want to treat him as an object, then he's still subject to nonlethal damage, but not being broken or destroyed until he hits negative Con. As for his hardness, up to you in this case.
That's almost worth a FAQ. Is a petrified character an object and, if so, can she gain the broken and destroyed conditions, thereby complicating her recovery?
And if he is an object that gets broken, can a mending spell or the like heal him? Or rather, can damage gained while petrified be healed in a way similar to how you 'heal' a golem? (obvious damage gained before personification stays since you basically started as a 'statue with a large gash across its chest')
I'm really curious about this too.
Maybe we should write up a proper FAQ question and see if they respond?
I'm really curious about this too.
Maybe we should write up a proper FAQ question and see if they respond?
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
pc turns to stone is then bull-rushed off 100 foot tower. Is the falling damage changed? is there a check/roll to see if he breaks in pieces? just wondering....thanks guys!!!
He can't take actions (like Acrobatics.)
You apply hardness of stone.Falling damage doesn't qualify for half (Core p173/174.)
Large objects may have more than one location of hit points (I'd ignore.)
I'd set hit points to 15 hp per inch of width (30 to 40 inch; My call)
At half damage it is broken, if he is broken then when stone to flesh in my world he would be dead (my interpretation of the situation.)
I'd apply any damage less than half the object's hit points to the PC's "pre-stoned" HP total and if greater than his HP he dies.)
Much of this is GM call, you won't find a rule directly telling you what to do.
all very good points. the breaking is part of RAW and also has a cool and dramatic effect. I hope it works out tonight.....
The good news is that even if the character breaks before reaching an HP total in the dead range, as long as you have all of the pieces, stone to flesh still works without horrible consequences. So the question of whether their arm breaks off if they take half their hit points in damage isn't quite as important as it first appears.
I am with James on this, for the most part.
To me, flesh to stone is clear about the "mindless," and "inert" parts of being an object - and other rules are clear about how to figure out the HP that an object has and its hardness.
In this case, a medium sized PC statue is looking at having well over 100 HP - I would actually estimate about 350 since your worn gear becomes part of the single solid chunk of stone, backpack included.
As for the condition of the statue vs. the condition of the body, I feel the spell (which all petrification effects I know of function like) is clear on that as well - if the statue took 248 damage (to pull a number out of a hat) then the PC is in the condition he would be in had he taken 248 damage when turned back to flesh...
which means you really should use some mending or make whole spells on your friend before turning him back to flesh or you might have just killed him.
Hmm, that's the most interesting roundabout method of arcane healing I've read today.
flesh to stone
mending
...
mending
stone to flesh (hey, what's a Fortitude save among friends?)
(edit: No, I wouldn't let it work. I'm fairly certain that petrifying a creature with one hit point left doesn't leave you with a barely-intact statue that you can repair with mending.)
agreed of course
Is the ground sufficiently hard?
By rule, Objects could just be flat out impervious to a certain kind of damage. Or vulnerable. 30 inch thick rock is not easy to break and objects aren't exactly subject to the same falling damage. Look it up. Objects merely take the same damage they would deal to a character if it fell on them.
I'd rule that a petrified creature has the same number of hit points as a normal creature. That way, should he ever get unpetrified, it's easier to determine just how much damage he's taken.
Unless hardness only applies against attacks (like DR), I would apply it against the fall as well.
I don't think I would let you Bull Rush a petrified person.
Bull Rush is pushing a creature, a petrified person is an object. An object that should weigh a couple thousand pounds.
I think you would need to use the rules for moving an object, which means you probably aren't moving it.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If petrified creature was bull rushed from tower, it would be same as bull rushing a statue. Statue would break at 0 hit points or less after applying hardness, so a creature getting more damage from a fall then it's hit points would shatter to pieces. At least this is how I would rule it.
There might be additional rules as of how much damage do falling objects receive and if the falling damage ignores hardness and such.
Malag
I don't think I would let you Bull Rush a petrified person.
Bull Rush is pushing a creature, a petrified person is an object. An object that should weigh a couple thousand pounds.
In v3.5 I believe it was stated that petrified creatures weighed 8-fold what they normally would.
A naked 200 lb. man who was petrified would weigh 1,600 lbs. Gear would increase that amount substantially.
I don't think I would let you Bull Rush a petrified person.
Bull Rush is pushing a creature, a petrified person is an object. An object that should weigh a couple thousand pounds.
I think you would need to use the rules for moving an object, which means you probably aren't moving it.
Are there rules for moving an object (other than lifting and carrying it)?
Barring that, I'd increase the CMD accordingly. Of course, the spell/effect usually doesn't specify what kind of stone....
In your games perhaps.
In my games, it's about as lethal as falling while unpetrified.
You also don't seem to be accounting for surfaces. A statue landing in water or other yielding surface is a bit more likely to survive.
Stone statues don't take well to being dropped. A fall of any distance is an instant kill.
Or, we could follow the rules unless there's a compelling reason not to. : /
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No, I was thinking of the "Lifting and Dragging" rules.
A character can lift as much as double his maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action).
A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them by half or more.
So a 20 Str medium creature has a maximum load of 400 lbs. He could push a 2000 lb statue 5' as a full round action.
That works. Thanks for finding those.
You could try to calculate how many HP a statue would have based on the material hp per inch of hardness. Stone has 15/inch. But it gets weird, because you should be accounting for the thinnest location, not the thickest. Because those are where it'd break.
In a homebrew, I'd skip that step and set the statue's HP at whatever the PC's max HP is. Treat him like a stone object with hardness 8 and that many hp.
After a fall, the statue would take normal falling damage (not halved), ignore nonlethal, and reduce the total by 8, its hardness.
Any damage the character had before the petrification isn't really relevant to the statue. The statue would use full HP, not already injured HP. It is a statue of an injured guy, or a perfectly healthy guy, both statues would be equally tough.
Now, assuming he might eventually be turned back into flesh.... it gets tricky. Adjudicate carefully. If he is turned back with like, a broken off arm n stuff, well... it doesn't just magically reappear. That sucker is gone. Hopefully a make whole is available before the stone to flesh.
Ugh, way too complicated. And you don't need make whole; check the description for the petrified condition. You just have to have all the pieces.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm telling you, using the character's current hp is the easiest way. It makes sense that previous damage to the flesh would show up as minute cracks and deformities in the stone that would weaken its integrity. What's more, it keeps the more whiny players out there from feeling somehow cheated.
"But RD, why would a 1st-level medium humanoid statue and a 20th-level medium humanoid statue differ in their chances of breaking?"
They differ because the higher level "statue" is far luckier, and is much more likely destined to go on and do great things.
I still think it's a great way to not bog the game down in needless rules debates.
In my home game I'd just have the statue shatter, a living pc has some ways to reduce damage, but a stone falling how far? With arms and legs to break off? By my most lenient rules interpretation they would take falling damage less hardness, but much like how a siege engine does extra damage I'd have the statue take extra damage because its not reinforced or meant for falling.
IMO its much more flavorful to have a cool and interesting death story to tell for the next decade rather than trying to find a way to get out of it, the player failed the save and got knocked off a buliding.
I'm running a game called the Slumbering Tsar and a similar situation came up, I was willing to have pc's shatter by falling 30-40', maybe I'm a mean dm.
I still think it's a great way to not bog the game down in needless rules debates.Judging by your activity in this forum, you LIVE for endless rule debate. :)
Outside of games, maybe. But in a game? No, that's time for roleplaying and monster killing!
RD - Statues don't have levels, and your assessment that "more whiny players out there" wouldn't feel cheated by having their current HP used instead of the HP the rules say stone possesses is completely wacky.
A character might have 45 or less hit points - that 3" thick stone, so you are saying "killing you while you are a statue and can't defend yourself requires the same amount of damage I would require you to do just to break the wrist of a statue that had never been a creature."
That is something worth whining about.
Except you aren't a statue. You're a petrified (and unconscious) creature.