✪ October Subscription Shipping ✪


Customer Service

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

(Not a complaint) I wonder if it would be legal for a company to send out subscription items to arrive a week before the street date. That way they would have a buffer for shipping, and further incentive for people to directly subscribe. Would game stores have any legal argument?

Doesn't Netflix do that with some releases because the studios want people to actually buy the movie before it is on that service? I would think that maximum profit would be made from direct subscription but would also cause an overall volume loss if game retailers then cut back on their orders.

Thanks.

(I began reading Game of Thrones in 1997, I have learned patience)

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
sawbones wrote:

once again, my order is at the back of the queue, it does get tiresome.

@ Dark Mistress Get used to seeing pdfs available retail before subscribers have access. This is the 3rd month in a row that my shipment has been on the last day of projected shipping. and with the shipping now taking a 10+ day span to complete product is often in stores before my product ever thinks about going out the door, then it takes 2+ weeks to get to me.

Paizo has simply lost quality of service completely. A victim of their own success I expect, but they seem to be doing little to address service issues to their subscribers

I understand frustration, but honestly to say that they have "lost quality of service completely," is patently ridiculous.

The subscriptions were never about speed of service, they are about the discount, free PDF's, and ensuring that you get the product in question. On top of all that, this is still just a bump in the road. They have had a couple of tough months, and this one culminated in a reasonably major software issue. Their software team was working over a weekend to resolve the issue. What more do you want?

Did Paizo make mistakes recently? Sure. Have things beyond their control happened that have caused delays occured? Absolutely. Have they stepped up and done the best they could to recover? It sure as hell seems like it to me.

The 10+ days span for shipping things out the door is an anomaly, not the norm, and if it becomes more normal, Paizo will likely adjust to improve. They have dopne so in the past. There is no reason to expect that will change.

As far as speed of shipping goes, pay for faster shipping. You choose what speed that your shipment travels once it leaves Paizo's hands. If it takes 2+ weeks you are clearly not spending for faster ship times. Blaming Paizo because you are cheaping out on shipping, or because you are overseas, is not just crazy, it is just plain wrong.

I understand people's frustration, I really do. But this level of extreme reaction is ridiculous, and frankly it is frustrating for me to watch.

If we are not seeing as much feedback as you would like, I imagine, that as in the past, almost everyone is down in the warehouse helping to get stuff out the door. In fact, if I were a gambling man, I would place a sizable wager that Lisa Stevens, the CEO, is down there helping out in any way she can.

So again, give examples of what you think they could do to rectify the situation. Instead of offering only insults, offer solutions.


Radyn wrote:

(Not a complaint) I wonder if it would be legal for a company to send out subscription items to arrive a week before the street date. That way they would have a buffer for shipping, and further incentive for people to directly subscribe. Would game stores have any legal argument?

To the best of my knowledge, street dates are set by manufacturers as they see fit, and as such the manufacturer themselves is free to break them themselves.

The only binding thing about them (as far as I know) is pressure from both sides, I'm unaware of any trading laws that can be called upon from either side. A retailer that breaks the street date risks the manufacturer asking their distributors to blacklist that retailer. On the flip side, a manufacturer that breaks their own street date (or, incidently, that sells direct at a heavy discount from RRP) risks retailers not being interested in carrying the product if they're seen as an secondary, inferior channel.

Individual countries may have specific trading laws I'm unaware of, of course.


Radyn wrote:
(Not a complaint) I wonder if it would be legal for a company to send out subscription items to arrive a week before the street date. That way they would have a buffer for shipping, and further incentive for people to directly subscribe. Would game stores have any legal argument?

There's no legal argument against it, but there's nothing saying that game store owners have to carry or promote Paizo products, either. Some game store owners already dislike Paizo's subscription perks as taking business away that "should" be theirs. Paizo's goal is for subscribers to get their products at the same time they're available in the store. Usually that happens; occasionally it doesn't.

In this case, shipping early wasn't an option due to the software glitches that pushed the beginning of the shipping period back several days. It also wasn't an option with the GenCon shipment, iirc, due to delays in receiving items from the printer. As greywulfe says, this is an anomaly, not business as usual.

My order hasn't shipped yet either. When they're done shipping, Sara Marie will most likely post in this thread to tell anyone who should have received a shipping e-mail and didn't to contact Customer Service. If there's a problem with your order, they'll make it right; they have in the past. And if you believe the subscription option is worse for you than buying locally or from Amazon, Paizo will be the first to tell you to do what meets your needs. They understand the subscription option isn't for everyone.


graywulfe wrote:


I understand frustration, but honestly to say that they have "lost quality of service completely," is patently ridiculous.

The subscriptions were never about speed of service, they are about the discount, free PDF's, and ensuring that you get the product in question. On top of all that, this is still just a bump in the road. They have had a couple of tough months, and this one culminated in a reasonably major software issue. Their software team was working over a weekend to resolve the issue. What more do you want?

Did Paizo make mistakes recently? Sure. Have things beyond their control happened that have caused delays occured? Absolutely. Have they stepped up and done the best they could to recover? It sure as hell seems like it to me.

The 10+ days span for shipping things out the door is an anomaly, not the norm, and if it becomes more normal, Paizo will likely adjust to improve. They have dopne so in the past. There is no reason to expect that will change.

As far as speed of shipping goes, pay for faster shipping. You choose what speed that your shipment travels once it leaves Paizo's hands. If it takes 2+ weeks you are clearly not spending for faster ship times. Blaming Paizo because you are cheaping out on shipping, or because you are overseas, is not just crazy, it is just plain wrong.

I understand people's frustration, I really do. But this level of extreme reaction is ridiculous, and frankly it is frustrating for me to watch.

If we are not seeing as much feedback as you would like, I imagine, that as in the past, almost everyone is down in the warehouse helping to get stuff out the door. In fact, if I were a gambling man, I would place a sizable wager that Lisa Stevens, the CEO, is down there helping out in any way she can.

So again, give examples of what you think they could do to rectify the situation. Instead of offering only insults, offer solutions.

I agree pretty much 100% here. This month is down to pure bad luck. It was already announced this was going to be a busy subscription month down to sheer volume of releases, and that was compounded by the technical problems. We've seen Paizo employees working seven days a week to deal with it. They're not Amazon-sized (talking about the company, I have no idea about the warehouse people - although hefting all those boxes around probably helps :D), asking everyone to work a double shift the next day isn't going to catch up on a week's backlog.

From the customer side, I can see that it's frustrating, especially not being able to at least get PDF access. In the spirit of offering solutions, I'd suggest looking at a way to send subscriber PDFs on day one. My guess is the only reason this isn't done is because Paizo can't charge for the order on day one and have to wait until it's packed and ready to ship (from what I recall, most card operators have this as a requirement, hence the authorization process that puts the funds on hold until that time), and thus there's still a window in which the customer could cancel that order before it ships and possibly end up with the PDFs for free. Maybe there's a way to reduce the order charge to just the PDF price (as they've already had that part of the order) if a customer does this? I don't know if that's feasible, but I have a feeling if it were they'd already have looked into the possibility.

Internationally, it could be worth looking at the possibility of a European warehouse, especially as shipping anywhere within the EU bypasses customs so most of the continent could be handled from a single location. To the best of my knowledge, that's Paizo's second largest audience outside of the US and would both increase shipping speeds (and hopefully reduce costs) to that part of the world and reduce the pressure at Paizo HQ by removing a chunk of deliveries from there. It'd also likely get a lot more European customers interested in subscribing, which would mean more money going direct to Paizo.

Again though, my guess is that they've already looked into that option, and I'm pretty certain they'll be looking back at the past couple of weeks once the rush is over and thinking about how to avoid it in the future.

Oh, and yeah, I'm still waiting on my order. It'll come eventually. Sure, I'm a bit frustrated (and even posted to check that it wasn't being held up due to one of the items recently going out of stock), but I just got on with other things instead to take my mind off it. They haven't charged me for it, so I don't see any real reason to get upset over it.


Matt Thomason wrote:

Internationally, it could be worth looking at the possibility of a European warehouse, especially as shipping anywhere within the EU bypasses customs so most of the continent could be handled from a single location. To the best of my knowledge, that's Paizo's second largest audience outside of the US and would both increase shipping speeds (and hopefully reduce costs) to that part of the world and reduce the pressure at Paizo HQ by removing a chunk of deliveries from there. It'd also likely get a lot more European customers interested in subscribing, which would mean more money going direct to Paizo.

Again though, my guess is that they've already looked into that option.

They have experience with a European distributor from their Dungeon and Dragon days and had horrible experiences with it. From here:

Vic Wertz wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
IIRC Paizo did try European forwarding during the Dragon/Dungeon era and it didn't really work well.

That was something Wizards had started with the magazines, and it went very, very badly for us. We then switched companies, and it went fine for a short time, and then went badly. And we're not just talking little headaches here—we're talking some of the worst problems Paizo has ever had, and the resolution to each cost us time, money, and, worst of all, made for some really unhappy customers.

We believe that if you're giving us money, you should be able to expect the same high level of service that we're known for, no matter who's actually sending your product. And as soon as we give up *direct* control in that arena, we're bound to have problems. So until we're in a position to open an office in Europe ourselves—and we may well never be in such a position—I do not expect to ever attempt that sort of thing again. If the economics of overseas shipping aren't viable for you, we hope you'll support your local game store.

Interestingly, if you search Vic's posts for "Europe" (as I did just now to find that post), most of the first page are customer service threads from those Dragon/Dungeon days trying to placate European subscribers who weren't receiving their magazines.

Of course, that's working with other companies, not opening their own warehouse. I know they're doing well these days, but I don't know if they're doing that well.


Joana wrote:

Interestingly, if you search Vic's posts for "Europe" (as I did just now to find that post), most of the first page are customer service threads from those Dragon/Dungeon days trying to placate European subscribers who weren't receiving their magazines.

Of course, that's working with other companies, not opening their own warehouse. I know they're doing well these days, but I don't know if they're doing that well.

Yeah. I'm thinking if it's a viable option, they'd be doing it (or already are and just aren't ready to announce it yet... well, I can dream!)

I agree on not using forwarding companies, though. It'd have to be a Paizo-run facility or all kinds of messes could happen.

Personally speaking, I'm pretty happy with the transatlantic service I get. The 15% discount just about covers the extra shipping charges (as long as I stick to books and don't go trying to add in the heavy cardboard pawn packs or anything like that), the PDF makes up for what I lose by not buying at Amazon prices and means I don't think twice about waiting two weeks for the physical version to arrive, I don't have a FLGS to worry about supporting, and I love the fact the bulk of my money ends up in the pockets of the manufacturers and not middlemen.

Grand Lodge

graywulfe wrote:
sawbones wrote:

once again, my order is at the back of the queue, it does get tiresome.

@ Dark Mistress Get used to seeing pdfs available retail before subscribers have access. This is the 3rd month in a row that my shipment has been on the last day of projected shipping. and with the shipping now taking a 10+ day span to complete product is often in stores before my product ever thinks about going out the door, then it takes 2+ weeks to get to me.

Paizo has simply lost quality of service completely. A victim of their own success I expect, but they seem to be doing little to address service issues to their subscribers

I understand frustration, but honestly to say that they have "lost quality of service completely," is patently ridiculous.

The subscriptions were never about speed of service, they are about the discount, free PDF's, and ensuring that you get the product in question. On top of all that, this is still just a bump in the road. They have had a couple of tough months, and this one culminated in a reasonably major software issue. Their software team was working over a weekend to resolve the issue. What more do you want?

Did Paizo make mistakes recently? Sure. Have things beyond their control happened that have caused delays occured? Absolutely. Have they stepped up and done the best they could to recover? It sure as hell seems like it to me.

The 10+ days span for shipping things out the door is an anomaly, not the norm, and if it becomes more normal, Paizo will likely adjust to improve. They have dopne so in the past. There is no reason to expect that will change.

As far as speed of shipping goes, pay for faster shipping. You choose what speed that your shipment travels once it leaves Paizo's hands. If it takes 2+ weeks you are clearly not spending for faster ship times. Blaming Paizo because you are cheaping out on shipping, or because you are overseas, is not just crazy, it is just plain wrong.

I understand people's frustration, I really do. But...

You took the words right out my mouth. Paizo never promised us that we would get our subscriptions ahead of the street dates. The fact that we have in the past is a testament to their efficiency. The software glitches really hit them hard this month and the last few months their sales have been over the top.. this is all good things. So be happy that it means that Paizo will give us more books for many years to come if the sales keep happening the way they are. :)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
chopswil wrote:
Sara Marie wrote:

Update: October 23: I've updated the shipping by estimates below. I've put in October 31st as the estimated end, though I am hoping it gets wrapped up before then.

I've been patient but it's now the 31st and I've heard nothing about my order 2839498 which has been pending for about two weeks now.

any updates or ETAs?

The above says that thay'll be finished by the 31st. You posted it at 3:30 am Paizo time - the warehouse isn't working that hard...

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager

Yeah, 31st was apparently over optimistic. I was out with a very sick little toddler yesterday so I still need to check in with the warehouse to see where they are at.

thanks
sara marie

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I was not complaining more making a observation. Was a first for me.

I don't think they have lost customer service which is still world class.

I do agree that perhaps they are a victum of their own success when it comes to monthly shipments. That part of the company seems to have steadily gotten slower over the last year or so. Actually i don't think it is slower as they keep getting more and more people subscribing giving them more and more work.

They might want to consider shipping the stuff out sooner but not giving access to the PDF's till x date. Since it takes awhile to ship they could mail the stuff sooner and it still not arrive much if at all before the street date. Anyways just a thought.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager

Radyn wrote:
(Not a complaint) I wonder if it would be legal for a company to send out subscription items to arrive a week before the street date. That way they would have a buffer for shipping, and further incentive for people to directly subscribe. Would game stores have any legal argument?

Regardless of legality, we generally try to time things so they arrive around the street date for most subscribers*. Our goal is to help support local gaming stores, not undercut them. Its the same reason we don't try to compete with a certain online retailer's prices for new releases. Local gaming stores can't afford to give much (if any) discount off the MSRP so we are very careful with our subscription benefits so that they do not make FLGS's feel left out. If we started guaranteeing people their products before the release date as a benefit of subscribing, that would definitely hurt our relationship with stores. Not to mention, its not even something we could feasibly guarantee (this month's technical issues with shipping being a prime example why). That being said, we do try to get most subscribers their Pathfinder items about the release date. Sometimes that means a few days before and sometimes that might means a few days after. Unfortunately on a month when (multiple) things go sideways, that means orders are still shipping after the street date.

*:
International subscribers are a special case. The standard delivery for most international destinations is 9-36 business days. With that wide of a range, we are not able to time those orders arrivals to occur about the release date.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Dark_Mistress wrote:

I was not complaining more making a observation. Was a first for me.

I don't think they have lost customer service which is still world class.

And this is me too. I have no doubt that they are working as hard as they can to get everything out as quickly as possible. I'm not even slightly upset...just disappointed that I don't have anything yet.

Personally, while there are probably some things they could do vis a vis giving access to PDFs earlier, I suspect that that's a fairly intense software rewrite to do it on the scale that they would need to. And I'd *rather* have them put that effort to improving the general shipping process, rather than on error handling. I have complete faith that they are making evaluations on improvements to the system...or will be next week after they get all the actual orders out. :)

I also appreciate that they can probably pour tremendous resources into increasing shipping efficiency...and have it be almost completely invisible from our side, in the face of rising volumes.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager

Dark_Mistress wrote:
They might want to consider shipping the stuff out sooner but not giving access to the PDF's till x date. Since it takes awhile to ship they could mail the stuff sooner and it still not arrive much if at all before the street date. Anyways just a thought.

That was our plan this month right up until the technical issues we had with shipping. It why we set the two week shipping time which, originally, we felt was an overly optimistic shipping timeframe.


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Dark_Mistress wrote:
I don't think they have lost customer service which is still world class.

Agreed!

The last couple of months seem to have been a steady stream of "I'm a subscriber, I should have my PDFs earlier than everyone else."

*sigh*

Some of us forget the benefit of subscription is the discount and free PDFs, not and entitlement to 'early access' of said PDFs.

I want my books too, but Paizo is NOT failing to fulfill their commitment to me as a subscriber. I WILL receive my free PDFs and a discount on all Pazio products I purchase.


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Anyone who thinks paizo's customer service has been anything other than stellar in regard to this month's issues should review Sara Marie's posting history over the last month - including the information she conveyed, the tone she used and days and times that she posted.

Good customer service doesn't mean there'll never be a problem. It's about how the company responds to those (inevitable) problems.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Like working on scheduled days off to to try to alleviate the problem, which Sara has done I think at least twice this month, and Gary did at least once. Kudos to Sara Marie and PMG


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thank you Sara Marie, the personal attention is appreciated. Hang in there. Looking forward to the products!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Sara Marie wrote:

Yeah, 31st was apparently over optimistic. I was out with a very sick little toddler yesterday so I still need to check in with the warehouse to see where they are at.

thanks
sara marie

Family comes first (and my best wishes go to yours!) and you'd more than earned a day off!

I'd forgotten to add to my list of reasons why I'm happy with Paizo earlier:

- Getting a personal level of customer service. It's fantastic that we're able to interact with Paizo employees from every part of the company on the forums.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

There's a difference between a useless company who doesn't care about customer service and a company who's having issues, but trying their best to alleviate them.
They're trying their best, guys. Give them a bit of a break.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Woo Hoo! Got my shipping confirmation e-mail. Oh Paizo I love you, you be so mean sometimes, but I end up liking it. LOL :-)

Hang in there everybody it's coming


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Every time I've had to contact Paizo's customer service, they've been incredibly fast and helpful. Every time there are problems or delays with subscriptions, they are very good about communicating those issues to us. As much as I want my stuff to get here, I'm definitely not upset at Paizo for the delay.

That said...if my subscriptions aren't here by Saturday, I'm going to go in to withdrawals. I'm talking shakes, cold sweats, hallucinations, the works. I might die. You don't want that on your conscience, do you Paizo?

;)

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager

I just chatted with Will. They are going to be poking some numbers and letting me know when they estimate things should be wrapped up.


Just got my confirmation as well! Thanks Paizo!

Paizo Employee CEO

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graywulfe wrote:
In fact, if I were a gambling man, I would place a sizable wager that Lisa Stevens, the CEO, is down there helping out in any way she can.

And you would be a richer man. :) I have helped out a few times this week when time permits me to. The guys and gals in Customer Service and the Warehouse have been working late nights and weekends to get the problems in this sub run fixed. Thanks to everyone for their patience. We will continue to strive to do a better job going forward. Right now, we are focused on getting this sub run fixed.

Thanks again for all your support!

-Lisa


Yeah, they have clearly been working their behinds off under some seriously awful circumstances that weren't their fault all the while regularly updating us on the situation. It's just really bad luck for them to have it happen during their first expansion pack for PACG because I'm afraid that they're going to lose a lot of their subscribers who signed up specifically for that due to a lot of U.S. customers still not getting it yet which will potentially damage their long-term opinion of Paizo.

Honestly, knowing what I know now, I never should have signed up for a subscription because I am not one of those "I've got to have those promo cards!!!!" people. I did it because I thought it would be cheaper than I could get it anywhere else (including shipping) which has turned out to be very, very wrong along with getting it a few days before or right at the release date (I don't have a FLGS anywhere around as I live in the middle of nowhere). The latter also failed due to those cascading series of unfortunate circumstances.

However, I'm going to keep my subscription based solely upon their excellent customer service through a terrible time because I'm sure everything will be fixed so it can't happen again. One of those things is they should put a note in about 8-pt font that the cheapest shipping involves UPS Mail so no one in their right minds would ever pick that option.

Silver Crusade

Hmm... even though I got an email from Paizo on Friday, Oct 25 saying my order had shipped, UPS is only just finally acknowledging the tracking number. UPS claims they received the package on Thursday, Oct 31, and that it will take until Tuesday, Nov 5 for it to get to me. That's just about the slowest shipping I've seen inside the continental US, and I used to be in the mail order business.


At least yours has shipped


Fromper wrote:
Hmm... even though I got an email from Paizo on Friday, Oct 25 saying my order had shipped, UPS is only just finally acknowledging the tracking number. UPS claims they received the package on Thursday, Oct 31, and that it will take until Tuesday, Nov 5 for it to get to me. That's just about the slowest shipping I've seen inside the continental US, and I used to be in the mail order business.

That's only three business days for shipping. Up until yesterday, UPS didn't have it; Paizo had processed your shipment and printed your label, but the box hadn't been sealed and left their warehouse yet.

Same thing happened to me a couple of months ago. They get the shipment processed so they can grant PDFs (to those who are getting them) but don't necessarily get the box out the door the same day.

Silver Crusade

Joana wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Hmm... even though I got an email from Paizo on Friday, Oct 25 saying my order had shipped, UPS is only just finally acknowledging the tracking number. UPS claims they received the package on Thursday, Oct 31, and that it will take until Tuesday, Nov 5 for it to get to me. That's just about the slowest shipping I've seen inside the continental US, and I used to be in the mail order business.
That's only three business days for shipping. Up until yesterday, UPS didn't have it; Paizo had processed your shipment and printed your label, but the box hadn't been sealed and left their warehouse yet.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The email on Friday was false hope, since it didn't actually ship until a week later.

Liberty's Edge

Fromper wrote:
Joana wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Hmm... even though I got an email from Paizo on Friday, Oct 25 saying my order had shipped, UPS is only just finally acknowledging the tracking number. UPS claims they received the package on Thursday, Oct 31, and that it will take until Tuesday, Nov 5 for it to get to me. That's just about the slowest shipping I've seen inside the continental US, and I used to be in the mail order business.
That's only three business days for shipping. Up until yesterday, UPS didn't have it; Paizo had processed your shipment and printed your label, but the box hadn't been sealed and left their warehouse yet.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The email on Friday was false hope, since it didn't actually ship until a week later.

I would guess that they were focusing on getting orders packed and sealed and labels printed so that people could get access to their PDFs faster. Just a guess.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager

After talking with the warehouse last night, there is definitely an end in sight! One of our issues earlier was that due to some of the errors, having an accurate count of just how many packages were left to ship was impossible. Now that we know, we can give a better estimate. At this time, we are fairly sure, barring any more issues, that we should have subscriptions finished up by November 5th (Tuesday).

Last night Erik and Will were able to finish up all the bulk labeling for people with the "should ship by Oct 25th" emails. Unfortunately, due to the technical problems we had, many orders that should have gone through the bulk label shipping did not and instead ended up in the regular shipping queue which slowed things down.


So after 5 business days my shipment is still in washington state? Where did you ship it from, china? I thought you guys were in the mid-west somewhere, but even if you were on the west coast it hasnt moved anywhere in a week! I ordered a different game from amazon, on a saturday, it shipped from Wisconsin and was delivered on the next wednesday, what gives? Sorry to vent but next time i am looking at the shipping choices a little closer, and you can be a little clearer that the cheapest option is REALLY SLOW!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks for the information Sara.

I guess that I won't panic until the 5th.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CaptLudd wrote:
So after 5 business days my shipment is still in washington state? Where did you ship it from, china? I thought you guys were in the mid-west somewhere, but even if you were on the west coast it hasnt moved anywhere in a week! I ordered a different game from amazon, on a saturday, it shipped from Wisconsin and was delivered on the next wednesday, what gives? Sorry to vent but next time i am looking at the shipping choices a little closer, and you can be a little clearer that the cheapest option is REALLY SLOW!

Paizo is in Washington State. It sounds like they've had some delays getting things out of the warehouse even after the shipping labels were printed, which is probably why yours hasn't left the state yet. Shipping isn't usually this slow, even for the cheapest option (which is often surprisingly fast, actually).

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Shadar Aman wrote:
CaptLudd wrote:
So after 5 business days my shipment is still in washington state? Where did you ship it from, china? I thought you guys were in the mid-west somewhere, but even if you were on the west coast it hasnt moved anywhere in a week! I ordered a different game from amazon, on a saturday, it shipped from Wisconsin and was delivered on the next wednesday, what gives? Sorry to vent but next time i am looking at the shipping choices a little closer, and you can be a little clearer that the cheapest option is REALLY SLOW!
Paizo is in Washington State. It sounds like they've had some delays getting things out of the warehouse even after the shipping labels were printed, which is probably why yours hasn't left the state yet. Shipping isn't usually this slow, even for the cheapest option (which is often surprisingly fast, actually).

It's also worth mentioning that, depending on your shipping method, that the tracking might show that it is in 'Washington state' right up until it arrives at the depot near you. This is what I have observed -- it says that it is in Washington State right up until the day it is delivered, when it suddenly shows 3 different location changes.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Shadar Aman wrote:
CaptLudd wrote:
So after 5 business days my shipment is still in washington state? Where did you ship it from, china? I thought you guys were in the mid-west somewhere, but even if you were on the west coast it hasnt moved anywhere in a week! I ordered a different game from amazon, on a saturday, it shipped from Wisconsin and was delivered on the next wednesday, what gives? Sorry to vent but next time i am looking at the shipping choices a little closer, and you can be a little clearer that the cheapest option is REALLY SLOW!
Paizo is in Washington State. It sounds like they've had some delays getting things out of the warehouse even after the shipping labels were printed, which is probably why yours hasn't left the state yet. Shipping isn't usually this slow, even for the cheapest option (which is often surprisingly fast, actually).

I live in Alabama and I generally get my packages from Paizo 8-10 days after I get my shipping email. Today is day 10 and it should be in my mailbox when I get home (if the crappy tracking information from MI is to be believed).

-Skeld


Wait a minute Sarah. We were both working under the assumption that my package went out on the 25th so when I saw UPS Mail and switched it to First Class that applied to the NEXT shipment. However, since I'm in the same incredible lack of tracking info boat as Fromper, does this mean that it is going out today? If that's the case, I should have had mine switched to First Class so I could get it before Thanksgiving.

Also, I'm really, really wondering if you all didn't violate the law by charging people's cards for something and not shipping it for almost an entire week. That's certainly very, very sour, circumstances be darned.

It is order #2805843.

Btw, a slight bit of good news is that any PACG subscriber should be able to sell their promo cards on Ebay for a whole lot of money since it sure seems like there will hardly be any solely PACG subs left.


kysmartman wrote:


Also, I'm really, really wondering if you all didn't violate the law by charging people's cards for something and not shipping it for almost an entire week. That's certainly very, very sour, circumstances be darned.

To the best of my knowledge, it's only a problem if you're charged before the item is confirmed to be in stock - so charging, and then checking the shelves for a copy and finding there's none left is either illegal or breaking the agreement with the transaction processing company (I'm not sure which). Charging when the item is packed is technically okay, although the majority of online retailers like to wait until dispatch - in Paizo's particular case though it makes sense during this month due to subscribers getting PDFs once the order is processed (although as I see you're a card game subscriber I'm going to guess that doesn't help you specifically)

Otherwise, you've got a default of 30 days to ship the item after charging, unless an alternative time period is stated in a shipping policy.

(Insert standard "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer here)

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Dire Care Bear Manager

Quick update before I head off to get the kiddo from daycare. The warehouse team has pounded through a ton of orders today. We still have folks down their shipping, though I am not sure what time they are here until. We'll be back full force again on Monday.

thanks
Sara Marie

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
kysmartman wrote:

Wait a minute Sarah. We were both working under the assumption that my package went out on the 25th so when I saw UPS Mail and switched it to First Class that applied to the NEXT shipment. However, since I'm in the same incredible lack of tracking info boat as Fromper, does this mean that it is going out today? If that's the case, I should have had mine switched to First Class so I could get it before Thanksgiving.

Also, I'm really, really wondering if you all didn't violate the law by charging people's cards for something and not shipping it for almost an entire week. That's certainly very, very sour, circumstances be darned.

It is order #2805843.

Btw, a slight bit of good news is that any PACG subscriber should be able to sell their promo cards on Ebay for a whole lot of money since it sure seems like there will hardly be any solely PACG subs left.

You are all over the map on your comments sir. One moment you are all upset because you think it is unfair that you have to wait to get your order despite the news that there is problems all over a lot of posts via Paizo and Pathfinder threads. The next moment you are praising Paizo for keeping you informed and up to date and then you make the above post and cut them down once again. No one SAID you are going to get your order fast fast fast..

You can always ask for refund when you get your cards if that is what you want?? But until then... I know it is a lot to ask, patience is a good thing. Keep in mind that this is NOT the normal operations of Paizo. This is them trying to fix some problems that were unanticipated and all you seem to want to do is to make them feel even worse about it. There are ALOT of us waiting for our orders. You are not the only one and trust me.. I am waiting for quite a bit. I would love to have my stuff earlier or faster... but alas I am waiting my turn in line and then even know that once shipped.. it might take a while

(though surely shorter then the month almost you seem to be implying. Until then I wish you well.. and to relax as much as you can.

Until then... keep up on the fun game you are supporting by going to forums and such.
good luck.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

@kysmartman I live in kentucky as well. I let my subscription come via the cheapest option. Thanksgiving is not till the very last week in November this year, so there is still plenty of time for a package to arrive. The longest it's taken my shipment once it was shipped to reach me has been 8 days, and that time it was not the UPS MI that dropped the ball, it was USPS that missed the scanning of my package so i could track it. So with that said, you should have your package by Thanksgiving.


Deanoth, yes my comments are all over the place because I've been lied to multiple times so my comments are based on the info I have at the time I made the comments which has changed again due to the lies.

I worked in an online game store warehouse for a couple of years so I was very sympathetic to their plight, but if my boss had said "We're going to charge people's cards but wait a full week before shipping them out while sending them an email stating it shipped." the entire staff would have walked out the door. I don't care about the **** pdf's as that is FRAUD!

Basically, what I think happened is that the date of the PACG release was fast approaching, and that meant that people were going to cancel their new subscription so they mass charged a large group of them to guarantee that they couldn't cancel and get it by Nov. 1st from literally everyone else on the planet. There is literally no other reason for what happened. You charge the card, print the label, and stick the label on the package before throwing it in the shipping bin WHICH GETS PICKED UP THAT DAY OR THE NEXT ONE. Otherwise, you don't do any of that. It really is Shipping 101 or Business Ethics 101.

Btw, Paizo doing that probably delayed a lot of your guys' orders too because since you are long-timers you, theoretically, wouldn't get too pissed off at them so they spent a lot of their effort grabbing all of the new people's money before it vanished pushing you all to the back of the line. Oh, I'm sure there will be a rehashing of all the technical problems, but the bottom line is you took people's money under false pretenses.

Honestly, after this, why anyone is still a subscriber to anything Paizo does is beyond me. I certainly learned my lesson.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
kysmartman wrote:
Honestly, after this, why anyone is still a subscriber to anything Paizo does is beyond me. I certainly learned my lesson.

You really don't know Paizo as a company at all, do you?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
kysmartman wrote:

Deanoth, yes my comments are all over the place because I've been lied to multiple times so my comments are based on the info I have at the time I made the comments which has changed again due to the lies.

I worked in an online game store warehouse for a couple of years so I was very sympathetic to their plight, but if my boss had said "We're going to charge people's cards but wait a full week before shipping them out while sending them an email stating it shipped." the entire staff would have walked out the door. I don't care about the **** pdf's as that is FRAUD!

Basically, what I think happened is that the date of the PACG release was fast approaching, and that meant that people were going to cancel their new subscription so they mass charged a large group of them to guarantee that they couldn't cancel and get it by Nov. 1st from literally everyone else on the planet. There is literally no other reason for what happened. You charge the card, print the label, and stick the label on the package before throwing it in the shipping bin WHICH GETS PICKED UP THAT DAY OR THE NEXT ONE. Otherwise, you don't do any of that. It really is Shipping 101 or Business Ethics 101.

Btw, Paizo doing that probably delayed a lot of your guys' orders too because since you are long-timers you, theoretically, wouldn't get too pissed off at them so they spent a lot of their effort grabbing all of the new people's money before it vanished pushing you all to the back of the line. Oh, I'm sure there will be a rehashing of all the technical problems, but the bottom line is you took people's money under false pretenses.

Honestly, after this, why anyone is still a subscriber to anything Paizo does is beyond me. I certainly learned my lesson.

I am 100% certain that your version of events didn't happen. Honestly, you've misunderstood a whole bunch of stuff, which is fine, but does make claims of lies and corporate scheming somewhat silly.

One important point that you're seemingly unaware of is that Paizo don't mind if you source their product from somewhere else. You also ignore the fact that lots of subscribers got their cards before the street date, despite the glitches this month - where you are in the queue is the luck of the draw.

The fact there are still long term subscribers surprises you. Perhaps that might tip you off that you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick?

Liberty's Edge

kysmartman wrote:

Deanoth, yes my comments are all over the place because I've been lied to multiple times so my comments are based on the info I have at the time I made the comments which has changed again due to the lies.

I worked in an online game store warehouse for a couple of years so I was very sympathetic to their plight, but if my boss had said "We're going to charge people's cards but wait a full week before shipping them out while sending them an email stating it shipped." the entire staff would have walked out the door. I don't care about the **** pdf's as that is FRAUD!

Basically, what I think happened is that the date of the PACG release was fast approaching, and that meant that people were going to cancel their new subscription so they mass charged a large group of them to guarantee that they couldn't cancel and get it by Nov. 1st from literally everyone else on the planet. There is literally no other reason for what happened. You charge the card, print the label, and stick the label on the package before throwing it in the shipping bin WHICH GETS PICKED UP THAT DAY OR THE NEXT ONE. Otherwise, you don't do any of that. It really is Shipping 101 or Business Ethics 101.

Btw, Paizo doing that probably delayed a lot of your guys' orders too because since you are long-timers you, theoretically, wouldn't get too pissed off at them so they spent a lot of their effort grabbing all of the new people's money before it vanished pushing you all to the back of the line. Oh, I'm sure there will be a rehashing of all the technical problems, but the bottom line is you took people's money under false pretenses.

Honestly, after this, why anyone is still a subscriber to anything Paizo does is beyond me. I certainly learned my lesson.

Seriously, you need to stop man. You are not in their warehouse, you are not in their heads. You are making assumptions about things and we all know what that does. You are being a jerk. Those of us who have been customers of the company for a decade now have a better grasp on the kind of people that the Paizo employees are than you do.

I'm the guy that will drive back to a McDonald's because of a minor error in my order, spending more money on gas that the error is worth, to make a point. If I thought Paizo was ripping people off I would be the first to make some noise. That is not who they are. Paizo has shown over the time of their existence to be a truly customer focused business. They have gone out of their way to make things right with their customers, time and time again.

My personal experience has shown that Amazon, a company that specializes in warehouse shipping does a worse job on new releases than Paizo on their worst day.

If you truly were just outraged, the logical course of action would be to cancel your subscriptions and never come back to this site.

Instead you keep coming back on here and bad mouthing the company, seemingly relying on the anonymity of the internet to protect you from the repercussions of your actions. At least that is how it looks to me.

You don't care about PDFs, that is nice. A lot of us do and I would happily have them charge my card earlier to get access to my pdfs. I trust Paizo to do the right thing, period. It is too bad that you apparently can not see past this months anomaly to see the kind of company that Paizo truly is.


graywulfe wrote:
My personal experience has shown that Amazon, a company that specializes in warehouse shipping does a worse job on new releases than Paizo on their worst day.

By a strange coincidence, I got a game delivered today from Amazon, a day late.

A day. No biggie, right? Except I paid for guaranteed next-day delivery.

Paizo, to the best of my knowledge, don't have any dispatch guarantees. They know better than to make promises they can't keep.

I'm far more annoyed about my Amazon order than I am about my Paizo sub still waiting to be processed and my PDFs still not being available. Amazon were only a day late, Paizo are now more than two weeks overdue.

The difference is, Amazon made me a promise (which I paid extra for) and broke it. Paizo didn't.


kysmartman wrote:

Deanoth, yes my comments are all over the place because I've been lied to multiple times ...

<snip>

...Honestly, after this, why anyone is still a subscriber to anything Paizo does is beyond me. I certainly learned my lesson.

I am so stunned by what I just read that I can't even gather a proper response.

kysmartman - you are acting in a very immature and irrational manner. please stop.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok to the naysayers.
I have been a subscriber since the beginning. And yes there have been some bumps in the road now and again with subscription orders. But frankly I have seen Paizo keep trying to handle the bumps in the most efficient way possible as they have grown. They print the shipping label for those folks who love pdfs so they can look at their subscription material as soon as possible. That solution doesn't work for me since I am not a fan of pdfs but hey it works for a majority of folks so I don't complain. Secondly being a subscriber isn't about getting it before everyone else, it's about the % discount you get and convenience of it shipping to your door. I know personally I will buy every pathfinder book published therefore I get it the most cost effective way possible.
And please don't think I am not just as anxious for my order as anyone else. I want those miniatures like yesterday. But as an adult I realize I am getting what I want even if I don't get it when I want. So I have nothing to complain about really in a mature manner.


In this post

Wis < 10 - moan, moan, moan.
Wis > 13 - Hey guys, keep clam, keep patient.

I thought my lot had been lost at customs, and I am relieved to see the delay is at Paizo, much better to deal with then UK customs!!!! Phew.

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