When it comes to RPGs, how complex... is too complex?


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I do like the complexity that allows one fighter for example to be built completely different from another fighter (goes for NPC's and monsters as well of course. The whole toolkit aspect.)

What I don't really like is the complexity of having torchlight cast bright light so many feet and dim light another 15 beyond that. Or your move speed is divided by this fraction when you swim and another fraction when you climb or stealth with yet another different cap if you do so as a full round action etc. etc.

I just can't remember that sort of thing without looking it up partly because it's dull. Might be less accurately simulationist but I would rather just halve movement for all those cases. Every square/5' costs double.

Heck I don't even really like counting diagonals as 1 1/2.

I could use a million other examples but you guys probably know what I mean.


Is that it for this thread? I hoped the discussion would go further especially with DnD 5th edition shaping up to be a much less complex system.


I started writing a roleplaying system of my own, using d100s as the primary dice (although not a percentile system, but something more akin to a difficulty based system similar to d20), and what I'm aiming for, is a more detailed combat system that tracks different levels of injuries and to what body parts they are done. I want it to allow for aiming at specific body parts or even organs, and make that the primary mode of fighting different monsters: stab the vampire in the heart to paralyze it, and decapitate it to kill it, hit the stone construct's arcane energy crystal to shut it down, decapitate the chimera's different heads to shut down its various abilities, destroy the cyclops's eye to bring it down, dismember the zombie to neutralize it, etc.
The way it looks it might turn into a lot of bookkeeping, as both GM and players would have to track what injuries they got where and you need to remember what the defense modifiers are for different parts and for being injured (perhaps the individual modifiers go down into their stat blocks).

I can see my project failing because of this amount of complexity but perhaps it will become something awesome too.


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Threeshades wrote:

I started writing a roleplaying system of my own, using d100s as the primary dice (although not a percentile system, but something more akin to a difficulty based system similar to d20), and what I'm aiming for, is a more detailed combat system that tracks different levels of injuries and to what body parts they are done. I want it to allow for aiming at specific body parts or even organs, and make that the primary mode of fighting different monsters: stab the vampire in the heart to paralyze it, and decapitate it to kill it, hit the stone construct's arcane energy crystal to shut it down, decapitate the chimera's different heads to shut down its various abilities, destroy the cyclops's eye to bring it down, dismember the zombie to neutralize it, etc.

The way it looks it might turn into a lot of bookkeeping, as both GM and players would have to track what injuries they got where and you need to remember what the defense modifiers are for different parts and for being injured (perhaps the individual modifiers go down into their stat blocks).

I can see my project failing because of this amount of complexity but perhaps it will become something awesome too.

Finally someone is inventing Runequest...wait

Just kidding ;) Good Luck I hope you find a system that you like.


Generic Dungeon Master wrote:

Finally someone is inventing Runequest...wait

Just kidding ;) Good Luck I hope you find a system that you like.

I don't know runequest very well, i took a very quick look at the BRP rules, just to see how it uses d100s (and it's percentile), but other than that i don't know anything about it.


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I's just teasing. I first played Runequest in 1979 (I still have the rulebook).


"baalbamoth wrote:

Take for example Hero Game System, if you go with the basic rules its a pretty minimalist system that grows in complexity as you choose to implement more and more rules, but when the players see those three 800 page core books, its like looking at a medusa, they freeze in their tracks and ask "what are we getting into here?"

Yeah. Champions Complete boils it down to 1 128 page book, but I think it was too little too late - even though I have the 6E core books, I love CC.


Lord Mhoram wrote:

Yeah. Champions Complete boils it down to 1 128 page book, but I think it was too little too late - even though I have the 6E core books, I love CC.

I thought CC was twice that many pages.


It is really hard for me to draw a line of "too complex."

I play Shadowrun (multiple editions), and don't mind keeping all the various types of points used to build characters in order, or dealing with starting cash in the hundreds of thousands and buying items that cost as little as 5 units of currency... and I don't even mind the rules complexity, which I would say rivals Pathfinder in the pluses and minuses to track.

...but I also play Pathfinder, and while I love the game overall, there are a few complexities (especially the number of choices a player has to make in order to build or level-up a character and the length of the average monster stat block) that I complain about, and am in a constant state of feeling like I'd house-rule them right on out of the game if I weren't too busy planning campaigns to find the time.

I also really like HackMaster, and it is a special kind of complex and extremely involved to sit down and play... and that completes the list of games that I enjoy which do not allow for 15 minute and less character creation and consist of rulebooks of 128 and less pages.


Generic Dungeon Master wrote:
I's just teasing. I first played Runequest in 1979 (I still have the rulebook).

And had the best world of any rpg.


strayshift wrote:
Generic Dungeon Master wrote:
I's just teasing. I first played Runequest in 1979 (I still have the rulebook).
And had the best world of any rpg.

Yeah, Broo and Dark Trolls were great. I have a Bar Room Brawl (RQ) from White Dwarf that has so much plot and atmosphere in very few words...


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
strayshift wrote:
Generic Dungeon Master wrote:
I's just teasing. I first played Runequest in 1979 (I still have the rulebook).
And had the best world of any rpg.
Yeah, Broo and Dark Trolls were great. I have a Bar Room Brawl (RQ) from White Dwarf that has so much plot and atmosphere in very few words...

Remember it well - the werewolf changing was hilarious.

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