Goblin Squad Member
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Am I the only one who would love to see this?
What I have wanted since the first time I played Pathfinder, was a game similar to Icewind dale or Balders gate, but with ALL of the pathfinder rules and classes.
Do you want to play a poisoner-thief/conjurer/ trickster who specializes in all the alchemical poisons and items in the ultimate equipment guide? NP!
Build your own race as per the advanced race guide? go for it!
I just love the system and would love to see it implemented to perfection. If I had any programming skill I would volunteer!
rehashing games gets boring quickly. just look at the movie industry. How pumped were you to see the Dukes of Hazard? A spiderman reboot 10 years after the first spiderman movies?
I'd rather see a new, original story than rehash that epic story I once played.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Have you seen Project Eternity?
I've followed PFO a lot more, even though Obsidian do some great emails that update backers. I was reading a blog linked in another thread of an eve player and "blown-away" does not do it justice and that's the sort of thing that makes me more excited for PFO.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I was never a huge fan of the Neverwinter setting.
Yes I did read and enjoy all the Drizzt books. I played NWN online on the Richterm servers as part of a Drow clan for many years but that was not set in Baldurs gate or anywhere in Neverwinter. In fact moving the setting from Greyhawk to Neverwinter (I used to write mods for Living Greyhawk)was one of the many things I found off-putting about 4th edition.
I would say:
- The Pathfinder world is better than Neverwinter for roleplay and more interesting to boot.
- You are never going to get permission from Wizards to use the Neverwinter/Baldurs Gate setting anyway.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I realize we will never get permission. I just love forgotten realms. I plan on playing project eternity, but it's the pathfinder system that really peaks my interest even more than the setting. And I was very disappointed when I found out that the MMORPG would not be following that system.
As a compromise I kind of wish Project Eternity was using the Pathfinder rule books....
Baldur's Gate used 2nd edition rules, if I recall right.
I would rather like to see a true to mechanics adaptation of pathfinder to videogame. With actual turn based combat, a grid, and as much of the actual rules incorporated as possible. with games like neverwinter nights and baldur's gate, the first thing that dies are movement based skills, like climb and jump/balance/acrobatics; and flying is reduced to fancy looking walking at best. I think with turn based mechanics these would also be easier to incorporate.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I would rather like to see a true to mechanics adaptation of pathfinder to videogame. With actual turn based combat, a grid, and as much of the actual rules incorporated as possible. with games like neverwinter nights and baldur's gate, the first thing that dies are movement based skills, like climb and jump/balance/acrobatics; and flying is reduced to fancy looking walking at best. I think with turn based mechanics these would also be easier to incorporate.I could write a whole
I think the way the devs have looked at it: It's a question of the number of players, the game system and the tools used.
(1)
TT: 2-10, pathfinder, P&P
Computer: 100-100's 000's, "pathfinder", Computers + Network
(2)
TT Pathfinder = JIT (just in time) world (as the GM dictates)
Computer Pathfinder = persistent world
(3)
TT Pathfinder: Turn-based a few players can pause and resolve
Computer Pathfinder = Many players simultaneously via network of computers across the world resolve to keep time constant/flowing
(4)
TT Pathfinder: P&P and human calculation and checking
Computer Pathfinder: Computational speed of data almost instantly=
The advantage of TT: Imagination, sociable groups.
vs
The advantage of Computer: Many players playing the singular same game atstI think this is the reason for a trend of players to play via video-games: You can have one big community that connects around a single game instead of fragmenting and losing touch (game, players, tools) ingredients are all needed: Players have computers/internet already and it's a question of the devs making the game valuable.
I can play the same game as someone around the world at any time eg.
The disadvantage of the MMO: unsocial crowds, anti-social griefers and not as immersive as the GM.
The advantage is: With so many human brains, socially organizing them you can get some emergence and a sort of fantasy simulation possible (I really hope).
I know things like the Oculus Rift might aid the sense in this respect, but I think the complexity that the above can feed the brain is more important via human interaction and the tech is just a way to augment that.
So that's the reasons for the differences I think. To replicate the TT via computer... it has strenghts in an individual or two in ownership of a fantasy world to craft in myriad ways. But there was a kickstarter trying to make sword-fighting via motion-controllers... and someone said something telling: It's not good because you should and can just get two sticks or wooden swords and do it much better! So perhaps the lesson is if you use a computer use because of the strengths it allows you that you cannot get without it? Trying to do on a computer what is already do-able in RL is less useful?
on why the PFO is going for MMO which are lots of different reasons even though the MMO genre is viewed as high risk.
But to focus on this: I'd really hope the combat can engineer the good stuff in the turn-based Pathfinder system into real-time tab-target variety of combat participants and contexts types. A lot of mmorpgs the combat feels click the button without feeding info on "what is the best decision to make for me? type of tactical enjoyment the turn-based can provide so well.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i often post in the PFO subforum without being aware I'm in the PFO subforum, i just saw a thread title that intrigued me.
For PFO i wouldn't want such a game system of course. I'm rather talking about a hypothetical singleplayer RPG.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Nonetheless, what you said has bearing I think on how interesting the PFO combat will be.
Maybe Paizo can do a kickstarter for this sometime.
This all said, the brains in the pathfinder community seem very good (lol) and that is something anyone making a game would want to make use of be it sub-creation (as per OP) or MMO. :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Balders gate, but with ALL of the pathfinder rules and classes.
It was "Baldur's Gate", as in, the gate belonging to Baldur, which is a form of "Baldr" from the Norse mythos. Even that game didn't include all the rules of 2nd edition D&D, and no Pathfinder game will include all of the Pathfinder rules. Some things will be changed because of the medium. Mechanichs that work well for tabletop may not work for a CRPG. Some things are changed because of licensing issues, as the case for PFO (may as well try to get this thread to be at least a little on-topic), and some are changed just because the developers feel like marking their territory. They're effectively the GM of the game. Ultimately though, any D&D/Pathfinder game will be an adaptation because there's just too much material.
As to the Forgotten Realms IP: Golarion has just as much room for high fantasy antics as Toril, so unless you're specifically looking to be Elminster's gopher... what would be the point?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I would rather like to see a true to mechanics adaptation of pathfinder to videogame. With actual turn based combat, a grid, and as much of the actual rules incorporated as possible. with games like neverwinter nights and baldur's gate, the first thing that dies are movement based skills, like climb and jump/balance/acrobatics; and flying is reduced to fancy looking walking at best. I think with turn based mechanics these would also be easier to incorporate.
I used to play Living Greyhawk P&P 3.5 online using a python client, did a lot of the Bright Sands arc that way before GMing for my local group. Play tested a few modules that way as well.
I am pretty sure some form of online play of Pathfinder Society modules is around if you want to hunt it down.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Nonetheless, what you said has bearing I think on how interesting the PFO combat will be.
Maybe Paizo can do a kickstarter for this sometime.
This all said, the brains in the pathfinder community seem very good (lol) and that is something anyone making a game would want to make use of be it sub-creation (as per OP) or MMO. :)
If PFO generates good income who knows what might happen in consequence?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
If PFO generates good income who knows what might happen in consequence?Nonetheless, what you said has bearing I think on how interesting the PFO combat will be.
Maybe Paizo can do a kickstarter for this sometime.
This all said, the brains in the pathfinder community seem very good (lol) and that is something anyone making a game would want to make use of be it sub-creation (as per OP) or MMO. :)
I think the way to go is to USE PFO assets for the above "create your own rulesets"; purchase extremely premium content of a few hexes of x theme of your choice from range y. Allow those players the ability to customize chars and create stuff in the hex for the adventure path or whatever is the correct terminology. Eg
The landscape
Position stuff of significance
Change rules for exploration
Add event triggers or just chuck 'em in when required.
etc.
Dungeons would be a much smaller version. But with the above you could get players to connect together and create bigger adventures, possibly?
It could be a side-game with some cross-overs to the MMO.
Hmm, the dream of permadeath could live on!
|
A big part of the problem would be animations for something like the Infinity Engine. Pathfinder has a lot of things in it that are missing/were removed from the 2nd Ed. of D&D for BG. Think of combat maneuvers. Icewind Dale 2 dropped attacks of opportunity due to real time issues.
I've given this idea a LOT of thought. And time. And effort.
It is doable, but there's a lot in PF that might not make the cut. But I agree, it is one hell of an idea. I want to do it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Aside from the poor sprite graphics, I really enjoyed the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series. If someone could improve the sprites, I would happily pay out for a similar game using Pathfinder rules. I don't need 1st-person perspective, cinema graphics or online PvP interaction to enjoy an RPG, a simple adventure path and top view would do quite well.
Building my own party of 4-6 would be my preference, but a single main character and NPC party members would also work.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
Unfortunately WotC has a exclusive license for computer games using the SRD. There's a grey area in the question of mods to those games, where users are encouraged to make changes that alterations, the SRD is already licensed, and users are adding stuff that they own. It gets even more complicated where Paizo's IP is concerned; there is too much risk of a nuisance or legitimate lawsuit from WotC for them to sanction using their IP in a game that uses the SRD, which means that anybody that does so is going to have to beg forgiveness or use anonymity, both of which are not likely to allow for sales.
There's probably someone with the skills and interest to make a Mod to one of the SRD games (NWN, NWN2, RtToEE) that feels like Pathfinder, but I'm not sure they have he time and willingness to risk the legal exposure.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
rehashing games gets boring quickly. just look at the movie industry. How pumped were you to see the Dukes of Hazard? A spiderman reboot 10 years after the first spiderman movies?
I'd rather see a new, original story than rehash that epic story I once played.
Truth be told, the Spiderman reboot was a licensing thing and not a 'rehash thing'. They have to make a Spiderman movie every few years or the license reverts back to Marvel. Same with X-Men and I think Fantastic Four.
Dungeons and Dragons is in a similar boat as far as films go.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What I would really like to see along the lines of what the OP is asking for is tools that make it really easy for a GM to put the Players into a 3-D setting, with most of their characters' combat abilities built-in, but with the GM retaining control. In essence, the ultimate Virtual Table Top.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
The WOTC virtual table top suffered a huge setback involving a murder-suicide.
ENWorld comment by Ryan Dancey
I don't know whether anything has changed in the 18 months since Ryan's comment.
Side note: The rest of Ryan's comment provides a really fascinating glimpse of the RPG business, from the perspective of a huge toy company that happens to own a minor sideline called D&D. I'll bet that kind of decision-making had as much to do with the creation of Paizo Publishing and the rise of Pathfinder as the unpopularity of 4th edition.
I don't understand why nobody has made a "Neverwinter Nights" style game with Pathfinder rules! The best part of NeverWinter Nights was the construction set and programming language.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I don't understand why nobody has made a "Neverwinter Nights" style game with Pathfinder rules! The best part of NeverWinter Nights was the construction set and programming language.
Someone mentioned above. But I believe it is an Licensing Agreement with WotC. Pathfinder is basically the D20 System. So any Pathfinder computer game will have to use a different system like PFO is doing.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The best part -snip- was the construction set and programming language.
I hope this gets noted. We can possibly imagine that PFO could be a springboard for further community off-shoots, if it turns out well. Can you imagine some of the community crafting hexes and APs based as such? Imagine if the NPCs were actually players hired to do perform these roles with a GM "managing" behind the scenes (god-mode)? Imagine getting a lot of players around the community modding and using the tools provided by the devs such as Unity allows and the in-house tools? It may not be turned based, but with organization it could be very cool organizational effort exploring different parts of Golarion.
|
CEO, Goblinworks
|
Nobody will ever make a "Neverwinter Nights" style game until those games become trivially easy to generate with automation. There's a reason nobody ever did anything else with Neverwinter nights after the sequel. The cost was astronomical compared to the returns. It's a combination of being only suited for PC, PC "dying" as a game platform, the art cost being about the same for a full-blown 3D game, etc. etc. etc. As PC games go, it's probably a dead end on the evolutionary tree.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I don't foresee PC gaming going away within my lifetime, or my grand children's lifetime. PC gamers enjoy their experience with PC gaming because it allows you much more interaction/control/customization than any console game to date.
As an avid watcher of all things gaming, I have to conclude that console games leave much to be desired. Given new technology, they have taken the route of improved graphics, but have yet to revolutionize gaming in anyway. Yet here we are, on the PFO forums talking about a game that could revolutionize the way many think of MMOs. PCs allow the players and developers to push limits previously thought unimaginable because they do not confine you into specific styles of play. Name one grand-strategy game available to a console and I will call it an abomination. One can not run a country with a maximum of 15 buttons (More if you take away some input to allow for combos such as Lshift+X), but in a PC I have an entire keyboard, and a mouse. The ability to develop my own macros, and key-bind however I please.
I regret that you have the opinion that PC gaming is dying, but I believe you are mistaken, no other platform allows for as much to be achieved as a PC/Mac/Linux
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
The last console I bought...
My brother gave me a Sega Genesis for Christmas back in the day, and that was the only console (or "toaster", as he called it) I've ever owned. I think I had three games for it when it died :-).
I'm another who'll have to change hobbies if PC games die.
|
CEO, Goblinworks
|
The cost to make a AAA PC exclusive title is not believed to be justified anymore. So most AAA titles are built for console and then ported to PC. The sole exceptions seem to be MMOs, whatever Valve makes, and Sims games. Because of this, most AAA games don't assume keyboards, or mice, dual monitors, or other things that could be unique tot the PC gaming experience.
The funding to make a Neverwinter Nights just isn't available.
|
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
I think it's the publishing model for PC gaming, and not the market, that is going to fail. If Wasteland 2 and Star Citizen get the acclaim traditionally associated with AAA titles, then I think that the AAA PC game market could go crowdfunded. There's also something economically interesting about the expected costs of producing the software being paid by the consumer prior to being incurred. Reaper Minis is doing the same thing with capital costs of molds; any industry where the initial costs are high but marginal costs are low is likely going to have a very major shift from the investor-funded model that was previously thought to be the only possibility.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'll have to check out the Reaper Minis experiment. That sounds interesting.
Keyboard and mouse are available for at least some consoles, if I recall correctly. I've read several articles pointing out that mouse targeting beats gamepad targeting. I guess the reluctance comes from the need to rest them on something. A desk is much better for that than a sofa and coffee table. As for multiple monitors, if TVs had decent resolution, you could just partition one of the modern wall-covering monsters and get a similar effect.
Since I play MMOs almost exclusively, I'm glad PC is still the primary platform for them.
|
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
The mouse is better than the analog pad because there is not a maximum speed of movement; the pad at full extension only goes so far, and it has a very small range between neutral and full.
Typical TVs have response rate issues; it doesn't really matter if your TV is 500 MS delayed from the signal, but twitch gaming requires very tight feedback loops (to the point that top-level Street Fighter is played exclusively on analog CRT televisions via a small number of possible connectors, because players at that level have developed timing and responses where the several MS delay of digital screens is excessive; They approach the theoretical minimum response time based on the speed of nerve impulses.)