Does Animal Ally satisfy the prerequisite for Boon Companion?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

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The Boon Companion feat has a prerequisite of "animal companion or familiar class feature". The Animal Ally feat states "you gain an animal companion as if you were a druid of your character level -3"

Does a companion gained through Animal Ally qualify as a class feature? My friend says that the animal is granted by a feat, not a class feature, so you dont qualify for Boon Companion. I was originally under the impression that the feat grants you the class feature, but it doesnt explicitly say that, it just says you gain an animal companion.

Is my friend right? Does the fact that the animal comes from a feat rather than a class feature prevent me from qualifying for Boon Companion? If possible i'd like an official ruling for Pathfinder Society. I had planned on building a fighter with a wolf companion for pfs but i dont want to hit level 7 and have the GM tell me i dont qualify for boon companion.

Thanks!

Silver Crusade

I can't give you an official answer but it seems absolutely clear to me that boon companion WOULD apply. You really can't parse words that exactly, especially when they come from different books written a year or more apart.

I've noticed at least a few threads discussing this feature and boon companion often came up. Nobody thought it would be illegal

Liberty's Edge

As written you are, at best, going to see some table variance. This is one I would avoid for PFS unless you're willing to have a lesser ally some of the time.


Ask those people to explain to you how you have an animal companion without having an animal companion.

When they can't come up with a proper answer, just go on ahead.


As written you do not qualify. You have an animal companion, but it is not a class feature. Whether it should qualify is probably a different discussion.


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If you really want to split hairs that finely, it doesn't say you need the Animal Companion class feature.

It says you need an animal companion OR the familiar class feature.

So the familiar's the only one you need the class feature for.

=)


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Rynjin wrote:

If you really want to split hairs that finely, it doesn't say you need the Animal Companion class feature.

It says you need an animal companion OR the familiar class feature.

So the familiar's the only one you need the class feature for.

=)

OH SNAP!

RYNJIN BRINGIN THE RAW DOWN!


I will also point out that the feat says "as if you were a druid" so it is emulating you having that class feature specifically.


Side question: Which book is Animal Ally in? Because if there's a feat that gives you an animal companion, I'm interested.

Edit: Found it. Thanks, Archives of Nethys! You may have just made Paizo some more money from me.

Scarab Sages

I do what I can. :)


Scavion wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

If you really want to split hairs that finely, it doesn't say you need the Animal Companion class feature.

It says you need an animal companion OR the familiar class feature.

So the familiar's the only one you need the class feature for.

=)

OH SNAP!

RYNJIN BRINGIN THE RAW DOWN!

If we want to be even more specific, no one gets a class feature called animal companion. Its Nature Bond and Hunter's Bond.

Anyways, sure! Why wouldn't it qualify? Would be silly if it didn't.

Liberty's Edge

I would have no problem with it in home play. In PFS, when something is grey, only take the build if you'll be happy with the conservative ruling or be willing to be unhappy from time to time.


So, what book has the feat?


Adjule wrote:
So, what book has the feat?

Faiths and Philosophies if I remember correctly.


Cool to finally see a feat that gives an Animal Companion. I always allowed it with Leadership, but it's nice to have something in the game for it.


RAW this is the same reason why ninja can't take extra rogue talents.


I'm a little disappointed that to get an Animal Companion, you require two feats. Though I suppose my Leadership method is about as constricting, since with my method, they have to wait until Level 7.

Also, I feel this should have been in the Animal Archive. But, it's still good to finally see a way to get an animal companion.


Odraude wrote:
I'm a little disappointed that to get an Animal Companion, you require two feats.

Takes 3 effectively, to get a full animal companion. Full animal companion still losing HD overtime too.

Dark Archive

Mark the first post for an FAQ? I'm currently worried about the way it's parsed. It would have been easy for them to say you explicitly gain the nature bond (companion) class feature.


On the bright side, if your animal companion gets killed, your new one isn't nerfed. Leadership has . . . baggage.

They could have worded it as gaining the class feature, but that rarely happens outside of a prestige class or archetype write-up.


Sure.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

The Final Doorman wrote:
Does a companion gained through Animal Ally qualify as a class feature?

Did you get it as a bonus feat from a class? If so yes. Otherwise no.


Rynjin wrote:

If you really want to split hairs that finely, it doesn't say you need the Animal Companion class feature.

It says you need an animal companion OR the familiar class feature.

So the familiar's the only one you need the class feature for.

=)

Common sense wins again.


I don't suppose someone could copy/paste that feat into this thread? I'd really like to see how that reads and haven't had the chance to pick up the book yet.


Animal Ally

Source: Faiths and Philosophies pg. 11

Your respect for nature is so great that you can form a deep and lasting friendship with an animal.

Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th, must not have an animal companion or mount that advances as an animal companion.

Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were a druid of your character level –3 from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper), or wolf. If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter’s bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources.

Boon Companion wrote:

Boon Companion

Your bond with your animal companion or familiar is unusually close.

Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class feature.

Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar that has received this benefit, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.

Special: You may select this feat more than once. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.

Liberty's Edge

If it requires a class feature, then you have to get the feature from a class (and not a feat). Seems pretty clear cut to me.


The black raven wrote:
If it requires a class feature, then you have to get the feature from a class (and not a feat). Seems pretty clear cut to me.

The raw states

Animal Companion

Familiar Class Feature.

No more no less.

The Exchange

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

While it's no where close to official it works for HeroLab builds.

The Drardic or the Bard-Druid-Cleric mix is this viable?

Bard (Arcane Healer)
Half-Elf, +2 Chr, Swap out Multi-talented for Arcane Training, Skill Focus (Heal)
Str 10, Dex 12, Con 13 (+1 at level 4), Int 12, Wis 13 (+1 at 8th), Chr 18 (stat bump at 12, 16, 20)
Traits; Blessed Touch and Narrows Survivor
Feats;
1 - Nature Soul; to lead into Animal Ally
3 - Eldrich Heritage; Celestial for the heal ray
5 - Animal Ally; Druid Animal Companion at level -3
7 - Selective Channeling; A most for channeling
9 - Boon Companion; AC at full level
11 - Extra Channel; More channels...duh
13 - Channeled Revival; 3 channels = Breathe of Life = frigging sweet man!
15 - Life Lure; fascinate undead with damaging channels or Extra Channel
17 - Improved Eldritch Heritage; Wings, free flight rocks
19 - Greater EH or Extra Channel or Extra Music
Extra performances at a 2/3 ratio for the favored class bonus with skill point at 1/3.

Enough healing to cover a cleric, knowledge a-plenty, AC for meat shield.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

When boon companion was written, Faiths and Philosophies was not out.
Animal Ally has all the similar language about the druid class feature -3, which all other similar things get. So why should this specifically not work? Because some here hate that combination? Or someone found a loophole again?

Pathfinder is getting bigger by the hour and more people than ever work on it. Do you want to burden those people further by all this rules lawyering? There is no reason why that should not work together, except the wording is not 100% the same.

Dark Archive

Scavion wrote:
The black raven wrote:
If it requires a class feature, then you have to get the feature from a class (and not a feat). Seems pretty clear cut to me.

The raw states

Animal Companion

Familiar Class Feature.

No more no less.

Hmm, when parsed one way it is legal, and when parsed a different way it's not legal? I sure hope we get an FAQ on this!

But no, while it's ambiguous as it is, I wouldn't allow it at my table, nor would I suggest it as an option to a player.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Animal Ally

Source: Faiths and Philosophies pg. 11

Your respect for nature is so great that you can form a deep and lasting friendship with an animal.

Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th, must not have an animal companion or mount that advances as an animal companion.

Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were a druid of your character level –3 from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper), or wolf. If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter’s bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources.

Bolded by me. Please read that section carefully. Druids do have that class feature. And with that feat you gain an animal companion as if you were a druid, which can only mean like that class feature, only at level -3.


Mergy wrote:
But no, while it's ambiguous as it is, I wouldn't allow it at my table, nor would I suggest it as an option to a player.

Why not?

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Read this thread for SKR's take on the matter.

Dark Archive

MrSin wrote:
Mergy wrote:
But no, while it's ambiguous as it is, I wouldn't allow it at my table, nor would I suggest it as an option to a player.
Why not?

Why wouldn't I allow it, or why wouldn't I suggest it?

I primarily GM for PFS, and there, I try to take the more restrictive and conservative rulings, especially with something contentious or ambiguous. If I'm strict with a player's build at low levels, that means they aren't going to be shut down at a convention.

In terms of personal preference, I think that yet another method to grab an animal companion should not have been released. However, I don't think it is clear that grabbing the feat qualifies you for the class feature, and bolding the text that I can open up and read doesn't really make the case any clearer.

Liberty's Edge

Scavion wrote:
The black raven wrote:
If it requires a class feature, then you have to get the feature from a class (and not a feat). Seems pretty clear cut to me.

The raw states

Animal Companion

Familiar Class Feature.

No more no less.

Actually, there is an OR in the RAW that makes all the difference ;-)

When in doubt, I will apply the interpretation that reduces options. And THEN I will consider more flexible interpretations as houserules : to be carefully analysed for balance issues.

Rather than say yes to everything without considering the consequences and regret it for the rest of the campaign.

Dark Archive

Boon Companion wrote:


Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class feature.
Animal Ally wrote:


Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were a druid.

A Druid gains their AC through a class feature, you gain one as if you were a Druid. In fact later on it *specifically* says that the feat grants you an effective Druid level, in regards to an AC.

Seems about as clear cut as possible.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Mergy wrote:
MrSin wrote:
Mergy wrote:
But no, while it's ambiguous as it is, I wouldn't allow it at my table, nor would I suggest it as an option to a player.
Why not?

Why wouldn't I allow it, or why wouldn't I suggest it?

I primarily GM for PFS, and there, I try to take the more restrictive and conservative rulings, especially with something contentious or ambiguous. If I'm strict with a player's build at low levels, that means they aren't going to be shut down at a convention.

In terms of personal preference, I think that yet another method to grab an animal companion should not have been released. However, I don't think it is clear that grabbing the feat qualifies you for the class feature, and bolding the text that I can open up and read doesn't really make the case any clearer.

Do you allow a multiclassed Druid to take Boon Companion? Because Druids don't have the Animal Companion class feature, either. Theirs is called "Nature Bond".

What do you think of SKR's explanation?

Grand Lodge

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All those that are saying that this dose not work are wrong. As per SKR there is no need to complicate things with parra fraseing due to different authors.


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The black raven wrote:
Scavion wrote:
The black raven wrote:
If it requires a class feature, then you have to get the feature from a class (and not a feat). Seems pretty clear cut to me.

The raw states

Animal Companion

Familiar Class Feature.

No more no less.

Actually, there is an OR in the RAW that makes all the difference ;-)

When in doubt, I will apply the interpretation that reduces options. And THEN I will consider more flexible interpretations as houserules : to be carefully analysed for balance issues.

Rather than say yes to everything without considering the consequences and regret it for the rest of the campaign.

If that is true, then fighters can't specialize in exotic weapons, and non-fighters can't take Weapon Focus or feats that chain off it.

It's true.

Martial Proficiency (the feat) does not say it grants proficiency, merely that it removes the penalties. Prereq for focus is proficiency, which fighters are granted as a class feature... not from a feat.

Look it up. Sometimes people take the rules too seriously, and this is my example of why they should lighten up.


You must be 4th level to take Animal Ally, and you must not have an animal companion.
You can still gain a companion later in a class that grants one, and the levels stack.
Animal Ally is based on Character Level.
If you take it, then a class that gains a companion.
Lets say you take Fighter2/Ranger3, you have a character feet to spend and no companion currently. Then you gain one more level in ranger.
You from that point on gain +2 effective Druid levels for every ranger level you take. One for class level, one for character level.
At level 10 you could have 11 effective druid levels.

It's even worse if you just take Druid levels originally selecting a domain, then retrain at 5th to select a companion.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm guessing somebody saw "Nov 15" and stopped before they reached the "2013" part.


Or he just wanted to talk about the matter without makng a new thread

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