DDN 9-19 packet is up at Wizards


4th Edition


I mentioned it on another thread and decided it may as well have it's own thread. Hopefully I'll actually have time to look at it tonight...

Liberty's Edge

Well worth another thread. A VERY good read. Still the D&D I hoped it would be. Perfect, no, but a darn sight more in line with what I historically was use to when I played D&D. A modern take on an old game, nice. Very keen to roll out my 'go to' adventure Ravenloft (I6 not the awful 3.5e remake) and get a group together.

Really made my day glancing over the new & final packet. Will tide me over until the final product hits the stores. Of course I am hoping they don't decided on too much deviation from the philosophy we have seen to date. I don't want to have to go back to playing with dolls, sorry, miniatures in my D&D games ;)


It's looking good. I glanced over it and I like what I'm seeing. The pre-requisites for multi-classing make sense, skills are back. I also noted despite being the "last" packet they talk about adding further material / updates to the packet (i.e. Druids). I'm going to give it a try in my homebrew setting. We'll see how it goes...


Stefan Hill wrote:

Well worth another thread. A VERY good read. Still the D&D I hoped it would be. Perfect, no, but a darn sight more in line with what I historically was use to when I played D&D. A modern take on an old game, nice. Very keen to roll out my 'go to' adventure Ravenloft (I6 not the awful 3.5e remake) and get a group together.

Really made my day glancing over the new & final packet. Will tide me over until the final product hits the stores. Of course I am hoping they don't decided on too much deviation from the philosophy we have seen to date. I don't want to have to go back to playing with dolls, sorry, miniatures in my D&D games ;)

Figures! They're called figures, and painting them is art on par with coloring books or paint-by-numbers!

Seriously though, I enjoy playing with miniatures, but don't think they should be required to play. I'm pretty happy with what I see in this packet, and will buy the core books. Oh, who am I fooling? I'm a nerd and it's branded D&D; I was always going to buy them. But this time I think I'll enjoy it!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It was definitely interesting for the 6 minutes or so I looked at it so far. They added the bard class. I also liked some of the new races added in. Always was a fan of Warforged. They seem mechanically weaker compared to the "non-unusual" races, but... *shrugs* Still like them. And they seperated kender from halflings.

With the inclusions of warforged, drow, and kender... Does that mean they will support Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dragonlance? New DL stuff is always a welcome thing. Maybe I will be able to live with those strange and inconsistant monster categorizations. Curious why they don't have an explanation on what constitutes a monstrosity.

Will they have a conversion document? And would it just be converting 4th edition to 5th, or would it also include one for converting up from 3rd? I still need to look at more of it anyway. Still undecided if I will play it or not.

Shadow Lodge

Adjule wrote:
With the inclusions of warforged, drow, and kender... Does that mean they will support Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dragonlance?

Well, drow doesn't exactly necessarily imply Forgotten Realms...but I'm sure they will support it. As boring as I find it, it's easily their most popular setting.

My favorite is Greyhawk, but I almost hope they don't touch it. Not because I think they would ruin it, but I'd feel obligated to get whatever they put out for it.

As for the actual system, skipped the past few playtest, but I did download this final playtest, and so far I like what I've read (admittedly, I've only skimmed so far).


Given all the cross media hype "The Sundering" is getting, we may even be looking at two different versions of the Realms for 5E. I'm assuming it (one of them?) will be the baseline setting for 5E , but who the hell knows at this point.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

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Finally got around to reading a playtest packet. My impression is, "cute." It's the best retro clone I've ever seen; I can see how this edition might appeal to that segment of the gaming community (assuming they can overcome their accumulated hatred of all things WotC).

I'd say there's a 30% chance I'll pick up the book when it hits, which is a pretty dramatic increase given that I was at 1% before.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

There's a 100% chance for me to pick it up. Buying it? Still not sure about going that far. All depends. Biggest thing for me is how they do the settings, and how they explain how they seperated the monsters into the groups they did. I still can't wrap my head around what constitutes a monstrosity, and why some creatures similar to each other aren't in the same category (griffon is beast, owlbear is monstrosity).

Also, I need to check out the classes, to see if those have been expanded or not. Mostly the Paladin. Does it still have only 1 option? Also, are there only 2 options per class (druid of the moon and druid of the land, for example), or will there be more? I love options, which is why I typically despise "core only", and 5th edition's "core only" so far seems to be kinda meh.

I do like their subrace system, though. Tempting to incorporate it into my own campaign world.


Adjule wrote:

There's a 100% chance for me to pick it up. Buying it? Still not sure about going that far. All depends. Biggest thing for me is how they do the settings, and how they explain how they seperated the monsters into the groups they did. I still can't wrap my head around what constitutes a monstrosity, and why some creatures similar to each other aren't in the same category (griffon is beast, owlbear is monstrosity).

Also, I need to check out the classes, to see if those have been expanded or not. Mostly the Paladin. Does it still have only 1 option? Also, are there only 2 options per class (druid of the moon and druid of the land, for example), or will there be more? I love options, which is why I typically despise "core only", and 5th edition's "core only" so far seems to be kinda meh.

I do like their subrace system, though. Tempting to incorporate it into my own campaign world.

They've added the Bard to the class section, but very little else has changed. Still only one paladin oath.

Liberty's Edge

As I home brew for setting I am only concerned withe the 'core only' working the way I like to tell tales with. 5e is getting A+ from me so far, for me the current 5e is what 3e should have been.

I know it has been there for a while but Potion Misc. Table being but back in brought a huge smile to my face. Making multi-classing special in the latest again caters to my ideals very well.

This edition will make me shelve 2e - and that from me is HIGH praise!


Any major changes on spells/classes from the previous packet?

Digital Products Assistant

Removed a post and the replies. Discussing moderation decisions/happenings of other forum communities isn't OK on paizo.com.

Liberty's Edge

wicked cool wrote:
Any major changes on spells/classes from the previous packet?

Not really, just they put back some of the things they removed. They added some classes and races. Quite a complete little game at the moment. Very usable. I am hoping they give us a couple of months to play-test before asking for feedback.


Some people seem to be assuming that the playtest is going to be the game. Just parts of it. Mike Mearls had some interesting things to post in the 9/23 Legends and Lore column:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130923

Tactical combat module, downtime module, dramatic storytelling module and character customization module. None off which has been in the public playtest and which will not, apparently, be in the core game. Whether these modules are included in the first set of books (along with the core game) or are future splat books isn't mentioned.

Liberty's Edge

R_Chance wrote:

Some people seem to be assuming that the playtest is going to be the game. Just parts of it. Mike Mearls had some interesting things to post in the 9/23 Legends and Lore column:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130923

Tactical combat module, downtime module, dramatic storytelling module and character customization module. None off which has been in the public playtest and which will not, apparently, be in the core game. Whether these modules are included in the first set of books (along with the core game) or are future splat books isn't mentioned.

Sounds good - if it turned out like the 2e Black Books I would be pleased.

S.


Have they mentioned miniatures at all? Our group is still using them in combat/marching order.

I went up against a bugbear that used disadvantage against me (my rolls were 16 and 4). That 4 really hurt.


wicked cool wrote:

Have they mentioned miniatures at all? Our group is still using them in combat/marching order.

I went up against a bugbear that used disadvantage against me (my rolls were 16 and 4). That 4 really hurt.

It sounds like the plan is to make minis completely optional, but the tactical combat options would expand the game to allow you to play a more 4E style game.

I'm very curious what their miniature product line will look like myself. Personally, I enjoy Dungeon Command so I hope for more sets of that in the future which would provide some additional minis for the RPG as well. Beyond that, I think a base set of minis that cover your typical party mix and low level dungeon crawl would be good. A random setup of some kind to cover the larger volume of minis would be ok.

Liberty's Edge

R-Chance in another thread gives a link to Mike Mearls comments. He basically says exactly that. Combat like 3e and 4e will be available in an optional extra. Seem to me to be the same idea they had with the 2e Black books. I'm all on board for this approach.

S.


I read though most of the packet and while it's not 4E, I think it's an alright system. I like how they included things like Drow, Warforged, Dragonborn, and Tieflings. I like that they gave both the Paladin and Ranger specific spells (smite spells FTW!!). I like how the monster layouts are as well. I also like the flat proficiency bonus to things like skills, attacks, saving throws, etc. Very elegant.

I still don't like the TWF rules, forcing both weapons to be light and only increasing one of them to a one-handed weapon with a feat is bogus and certainly doesn't help in allowing someone to dual-attack with sword and shield. I'm also not a fan that the Fighter is severly lacking in both the Exploration and Interactive Pillars. They have really nothing to contribute outside of combat besides maybe intimidate. Sorta bland in those areas. Paladins also need to be able to apply their Smites to ranged attacks for those who go Elven Paladin (a common theme IMO).

Liberty's Edge

Once I got done squeeing at the kender love I took a good look at this packet and I like what the game has evolved into over the course of the playtest. I'm surprised that it resembles 2E so much, not that I dislike 2E, it was one of my favorite editions, I'm just surprised. The assessment upthread that it looks like a retro clone is pretty accurate I feel. Modern games are made with interlinked attribute/skill systems so to take what looks like a step backwards to a system more like proficiencies is surprising.

I am excited and eagerly await the new edition.


This packet's certainly a step up from the last one... wish they included more aspects of the June/July one though... Oh well, no biggie. Teasing dragonlance and eberron stuff is pretty sly, and I like. (Especially since I'll snag anything Eberron.) While I hate the PoL races, they're a part of D&D now, so... what can you do? Also, the bard's okay and yay updates! (Hopefully we'll get more options for sub-class and what have you. Maybe even planetouched! They mentioned them in the "tiefling" race... but no inclusion of them. That's a major strike against them in my book.)


Rodney Thompson has indicated there will be an update to the Druid and Paladin for the last playtest packet. Also apparently a change to the human racial options. To be released publicly "soon". I gather they were still working on that but wanted to release the playtest packet on 9-19.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dndqa/20130927


R_Chance wrote:

Rodney Thompson has indicated there will be an update to the Druid and Paladin for the last playtest packet. Also apparently a change to the human racial options. To be released publicly "soon". I gather they were still working on that but wanted to release the playtest packet on 9-19.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dndqa/20130927

They also said (so says the grape vine) that they were delaying the packet till after that week. Well, how much ya wanna bet they changed their minds last minute and scrapped those bits of extra content for 9-19 release?


Doctor Necrotic wrote:


R_Chance wrote:

Rodney Thompson has indicated there will be an update to the Druid and Paladin for the last playtest packet. Also apparently a change to the human racial options. To be released publicly "soon". I gather they were still working on that but wanted to release the playtest packet on 9-19.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/dndqa/20130927

They also said (so says the grape vine) that they were delaying the packet till after that week. Well, how much ya wanna bet they changed their minds last minute and scrapped those bits of extra content for 9-19 release?

Probably not. Rodney Thompson posted on the 27th. The new packet was originally due about the middle of the month. The 19th was a slight delay (which was what they said it would be). They probably would have had to put it back more for the Druid and Paladin material and decided to push it on the 19th and add that later. If they had cancelled those bits Thompson wouldn't have posted about them 8 days later. My 2 cp of course, I could be wrong.

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