Rogue / Bard Character help: Building a Face


Alright, so I am looking at building a face for my party for Way of the Wicked, a 3rd party evil campaign. I have played a bard (arcane duelist/DD) in Jade Regent and enjoyed the class, this go around I think I want to try out the Sandman.

First: For anyone that has played the AP, how functional would a RP-centric character be?
Second: I was looking at building a Kitsune Rogue (2 Kitsune Trickster)/Bard (18 Sandman), how effective would this be?
Third: I am very attracted to "Betrayer" feat and Underhanded, would this be an effective combo should opportunities arise? Or would this be too expensive for the pay off.

I am not really attached to any class or race, so suggestions are always welcome. (I even thought about HW 4 for Astral mastery so I could Dimensional Agility).

Silver Crusade

Bard in general mixes poorly with other classes. What do you want from the rogue class? What do you want from the bard class?

You can get some of the best suggestion. By describing the character you have planed. Some of the suggestion you get on how to do it can surprise you.

I don't see where rogue helps you that much. Spellcasting and better bardic performance are all level based.

You get skills enough with bard, no sweat there.

What's sneak attack get you? An extra d6 damage? That's 3.5 damage, every once in a while. Inspire courage is just as good, just recognize that it's +1 for you, and +1 for three others. When you account for the bonuses to hit, it's strictly better.

Calagnar, part of my problem is I am unsure what to play... The concept I wanted for the character was one who would try to talk his way out of every fight, and then turn on his opponents once their guard was down, be it through poison, magic, or hidden weapons. I wanted Sandman because I thought the idea of charming someone before they ever saw you would pair very well with Kitsune's Realistic Likeness... You charm someone before they see you, appear as their friend, ergo they think you're their friend.
I am unsure as of yet if I was going to build a cold and calculated manipulator, or a cowardly fast-talker opportunist. I could bring humor with the latter and would be significantly darker as the former.

With that, how does Sandman's performance work with staying hidden, don't performances need your character to be seen/heard (understood) by your target?

Have you raked about this with your GM? Because be possibility is that it works for a level or two, and then your GM rules 'you're a famous villain, everyone's heard of how evil you are'

Charming is a good characteristic, and it pairs well with the excellent enchantment spells a bard gets. While bards don't get a lot of spells, they do get enchantment spells earlier, so they're fully competitive with wizards.

Hold Person is cleric 2, which means 3rd level
Hold Person is bard 2, which means 4th level
Hold Person is wizard 3, which means 5th level

Assuming you don't take two levels of rogue...

Now, how can I best utilize the sneakspell ability? The +DC of spells if target is flatfooted?

Necrovox wrote:

Now, how can I best utilize the sneakspell ability? The +DC of spells if target is flatfooted?

You can't. It puts you on a two round casting cycle using vanish every other round, which is a lousy deal for a bard. First level spells are actually valuable for bards because of the immediate action spells. That the finales work poorly with the sandman's performance repertoire is another strike against the archetype.

D'= B..b...but... Alright, so scrap Sandman? So now why Bard over Sorcerer(wizard/witch) at this point for an enchanter (I suppose bard has stealth as a skill where as sorc/wiz don't.) I wanted to play the stealther/scout as well, using magic to augment that ability. I think I am going to go Kitsune with the shapechanging, I think that playing a sorta Jaqen H'gar type character from Song of Ice and Fire is my route (although as far as we know he is human, Kitsune just have easier time with pulling off the shifting).

The bard has skills. The sorcerer doesn't. If that part of rogue is important to your concept, sorcerer will not serve you well. The bard has melee capability. The sorcerer doesn't. If that part of rogue is important to your concept, sorcerer will not serve you well either.

I'm not in love with sneakspell either.

Bard has a mix of things, skills, spells, and melee. If that's what you want, it can be quite strong. The price of being good in a lot of areas is that you are great at none of them.

Kitsune Evangelist Cleric of Calistria with the charm domain. Bard performance, spontaneously cast manipulative spells, and always have charm handy.

Vazt wrote:
Kitsune Evangelist Cleric of Calistria with the charm domain. Bard performance, spontaneously cast manipulative spells, and always have charm handy.

Sounds legit the only problem is evil campaign and Chaotic Evil is not allowed. The AP focuses around Asmodeus, who I understand, is not too fond of chaos...

Ah, Belial is the devil with charm for the LE/NE seducers. I can't imagine Norgorber having evangelists down on the street corner, "Excuse me, can I speak with you a moment about The Lord of Secrets?"

Alright, so I have:
Kitsune Cleric of Asmodeus (Evangelist) 1
STR 12 Dex 15 Con 10 Int 14 Wis 15 Cha 16 (25 pt build -2 Str +2 Dex +2 Cha)
Domain: Trickery (Sudden Shift)
Performances and Enchantment Spontaneous Casting
Feat: Realistic Likeness (+10 Disguise to appear as someone you have seen)
Skills Bluff 7 (1), Perform: Comedy 7 (1), Disguise 7 (1) +17 appear human +17 appear as specific individual, Stealth 6 (1), Spellcraft 6 (1)
Traits: Magical Knack (+2 CL) and X?

With this maybe take 2 levels of Rogue? For Talents, Evasion, and a few skill points to make up for being a Cleric. I can slap on Kitsune Trickster to help boost some of those social skills as well.
Any comments?

Would Trickery Domain serve me better than Charm?

Ranseur is also a hundred times better than light mace. lol, so thats +1 for Belial.

Look at the spell list you get from Evangelist. Isn't that enough? Do you really need Charm Domain as well?

No, I'd take trickery. There's a lot to be said for invisibility and an evil campaign.

I'd go Charisma 14, tops. At first level, the bonus to CHA skills seems awesome, but the effects wear away over time. The difference between a +12 and +13 isn't worth getting excited over.

Can you get to a 16 Wis and 16 Dex? That's your casting stat, hello. ESPECIALLY if you plan to charm a lot of people with magic, you need those spell DCs to be as high as possible.

You don't need levels of rogue. Really, it's a terrible class. And what's evasion going to do for you that Resist Energy won't?

If you do anything multi-class, and you don't need to, at least take bard, so that your evangelist levels stack for bardic performance. Also opens up a PILE of spells as class spells, which is really handy.

If you're still set on multiclassing, look at Inquisitor. With the right inquisitions, you can have tremendously good social skills, plus 6 skill points a level, and a range of useful utility magic, like invisibility and silence and cure light wounds.

And they're tough in a fight, which is also really handy.

Alright, so I have 11 16 10 14 16 14 for stat array now. With Trickery Domain I am actually thinking I won't need any other class (I have almost all skills as Evangelist with that Domain). Now, what should I focus on? Buffing/Support or could I do a fair amount of SS and control?

We played our first game tonight: Realistic Likeness and Disguise Self proved amazing.
I'm now level 2, and unsure what feat to take at level 3, and beyond.

First piece of advice: don't take levels in rogue. It's a piece of trash.
Really, in this game there's only two rules, and if you follow them you'll probably be fine: don't play a rogue, and blasting sucks.

Actually thinking about refocusing my character. Our fighter proved devastating (as most do at low-mid levels) and our Anti-Paladin was.. Decent. We had initially 6 people interested, and 3 showed up (2+me+DM)...
But since most of the players who claimed they would join dropped, I am actually thinking about trying to work a Mystic Theurge. Cleric of Asmodeus still, My DM is allowing me to recreate my character due to that problem we ran into. I plan on using the massive amount of spell slots to Spellcasting contract it up to enjoy some good defensive profane bonuses.
Due to the recent FAQ on SLA I can enter Theurge at 4: Cleric 3 Wizard 1 (Copycat SLA = Mirror Image and applies for the early entry).

Any suggestions? With that, buffer is still easily viable, but how would undead minion mastery play out with that build?

Is Evangelist still a good idea? I am leaning towards no: Maybe swap Evangelist for Arcane (Magic) Domain with Deception. That font could be pretty nice for S/S spells.

I like how I started out insisting on Rogue or Bard and am now Cleric.

If you want to fill divine and arcane shoes, would a particularly hellish witch due?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Rogue / Bard Character help: Building a Face All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.