Updated cards—what to do?

[Gilgilad]

I am very interested in the replacement cards, I don't care if they are 2nd printing size since I already have some 2nd printing cards mixed in. I currently have written notes in pen on my cards to notate the errata but I would greatly prefer seeing clean cards without my scribbly. I actually am glad that they have taken a long time to getting around to do this project, since there have been quite a few errata changes added to cards since this thread first started.

I read earlier in the thread that there were two options they were looking at; the more expensive option for printing replacements for ALL errata cards or the less expensive option for printing just the CRITICAL errata cards. Has that been finalized yet? If not, I would actually cast my vote for printing ALL of them. If I am going to order replacement cards in the first place, I figure I might as well get ALL of them instead of just some of them.

[FatePAC]

For curiosity sake, roughly how many cards is earmarked for errata updating up to adventure 4?

[Vic Wertz]

You can get a rough idea from looking at the FAQ...

[FatePAC]

So what you saying is all the cards with errata will get a replacement no matter how big or small or insignificant the errata is?

[Vic Wertz]

I have not come to that conclusion—but if you read this thread, that's clearly what some people want.

I personally think it's a terrible idea, as it would require us to put 37 copies of Blessing of the Gods into the replacement deck, which will about double the cost of it.

Unfortunately, DriveThru does not have the ability to let you pick-and-choose what goes in your deck.

[Gilgilad]

If it is more feasible to just do the critical cards I am sure that would be fine with most people. :)

[Ascalon1]

Just an idea, since I think most people that would be buying this game will be buying all the add-ons and adventure decks, I would presume most of us would be completionists. I would even pay another $15 or so for an add on deck that including the correct cards, promo cards, a variety of blessing cards (because even though it is a 6 player game, I have about 9 current characters that I play at different times and run out of these quicker), extra loot cards for those characters that do the quests at a different time and extra new cards that you genius' can create.

As a side note, since you already have all packs till June printed and ready. I would be happy if you could get the extra deck ready for next Christmas so I will have something to look forward to (as long as I know my collection will soon be complete, I'll be a happy camper.)

Thank you for all your customer relations and interaction with us all and keep up the great work. Daniel.

[MajorHavok]

Vic Wertz wrote:

I have not come to that conclusion—but if you read this thread, that's clearly what some people want.

I personally think it's a terrible idea, as it would require us to put 37 copies of Blessing of the Gods into the replacement deck, which will about double the cost of it.

Unfortunately, DriveThru does not have the ability to let you pick-and-choose what goes in your deck.

Does DriveThru give you the ability to present two options to customers?

a) all replacement cards except Blessing of the Gods
b) replacement Blessing of the Gods cards

Any chance you might finally have an ETA?

[No Comment]

G'day, has it been suggested yet to reprint/sell multiple decks? so 1 deck that includes the errata, and one deck for blessing of the gods. Probably want to do a third deck with character cards for those people who like to write on cards. Honestly I'd be happy to pay $16ish for each deck, so that I don't have to sit with the faq open on my tablet and search every card.

ie: Blessing of the gods not getting recharged when it duplicates the top card of the deck is a massive change and one I didn't even think to look for, I just ran across it in another thread. Which will make me search the faq more often.

ie: Thieves tools don't have an errata, the card text for discarding is 'discard this card to defeat a barrier whose highest difficulty to defeat is 11 or lower' which I read as, you can discard them to aid someone doing a barrier check, even though you can't reveal them (as that is only to your disable check), the rules have an example that suggests, but doesn't specifically state, that no use of the thieves tool is valid to aid someone, which makes the issue a little cloudy.

[3Doubloons]

No Comment wrote:

ie: Thieves tools don't have an errata, the card text for discarding is 'discard this card to defeat a barrier whose highest difficulty to defeat is 11 or lower' which I read as, you can discard them to aid someone doing a barrier check, even though you can't reveal them (as that is only to your disable check), the rules have an example that suggests, but doesn't specifically state, that no use of the thieves tool is valid to aid someone, which makes the issue a little cloudy.

Only the character who encountered the barrier can defeat it. If the Thieves' Tools could let you help someone else defeat a barrier, they would have verbiage similar to Sanctuary.

[MajorHavok]

Over five months now since this thread started? Any closer to an ETA?

[Horselord]

I too would prefer if an errata deck was published. Extra space could be filled with common cards that tend to run out.

I have invested significantly in this game, so spending a little extra to have everything perfect is a no-brainer. I'd even be willing to buy an updated errataed rulebook if it was expanded for clarity.

[Robrob1961]

I understand it would be too expensive for Paizo to reprint selected cards. OTOH, other card game publishers (FFG) have provided full face images of their errata cards online. This allows the individual to decide how they want to address the issue on their own terms. Paste ups put into card sleeves, labels printed on your computer for sticking to bare cards, ordering professionally printed replacements from Printer Studio (7-12 cents a card).

[No Comment]

3Doubloons wrote:

No Comment wrote:

ie: Thieves tools don't have an errata, the card text for discarding is 'discard this card to defeat a barrier whose highest difficulty to defeat is 11 or lower' which I read as, you can discard them to aid someone doing a barrier check, even though you can't reveal them (as that is only to your disable check), the rules have an example that suggests, but doesn't specifically state, that no use of the thieves tool is valid to aid someone, which makes the issue a little cloudy.

Only the character who encountered the barrier can defeat it. If the Thieves' Tools could let you help someone else defeat a barrier, they would have verbiage similar to Sanctuary.

Good point, well made, proves what I was saying somewhat. If you need to read multiple cards in order to understand one odd card layout, that suggests to me that the one odd card needs clarifying by errata, or since this is not a cheap game, a replacement card.

Example of another (not quite so) card heavy game, I recently bought the expansion to a plaid hat game, it came with an extra pair of cards, one said, The glorm teleports card with the ranged symbol is a corrected card and replaces the glorm teleports card with the melee symbol found in the sealed deck of cards.

If Robrob1961 quote from Printer Studio of 7-12 cents a card is at all accurate, then at worst for a full 110 cards it will cost $13.20, and at best $7.70, +p&h, which since I'm paying $20 +p&h per expansion which are getting less buggy all the time, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that a set of errata/clarification cards could be made and included free! (since I expect the 7-12c/card included profit and was for retail not wholesale).

Given that I will have sunk about $160+ dollars on this game when it is finished, and I don't imagine they are going to print errata cards or a pdf of errata cards until the final expansion has been out for at least a month, I'm willing to put yet more money in so that in 5 years when I pull it off the shelf for a nostalgic game, I don't have to search through pages of errata which might not even be on the website anymore.

[3Doubloons]

No Comment wrote:

3Doubloons wrote:

No Comment wrote:

ie: Thieves tools don't have an errata, the card text for discarding is 'discard this card to defeat a barrier whose highest difficulty to defeat is 11 or lower' which I read as, you can discard them to aid someone doing a barrier check, even though you can't reveal them (as that is only to your disable check), the rules have an example that suggests, but doesn't specifically state, that no use of the thieves tool is valid to aid someone, which makes the issue a little cloudy.

Only the character who encountered the barrier can defeat it. If the Thieves' Tools could let you help someone else defeat a barrier, they would have verbiage similar to Sanctuary.

Good point, well made, proves what I was saying somewhat. If you need to read multiple cards in order to understand one odd card layout, that suggests to me that the one odd card needs clarifying by errata, or since this is not a cheap game, a replacement card.

It's more a case of one of the main rules of the game: Cards do what they say and no more. The rules say only you can defeat the bane you encountered and the Thieves' Tools don't say otherwise, so they can't let someone else defeat their bane. I only contrasted Sanctuary because it's an example of a card that does more because it says it does.

[No Comment]

3Doubloons wrote:

No Comment wrote:

3Doubloons wrote:

No Comment wrote:

ie: Thieves tools don't have an errata, the card text for discarding is 'discard this card to defeat a barrier whose highest difficulty to defeat is 11 or lower' which I read as, you can discard them to aid someone doing a barrier check, even though you can't reveal them (as that is only to your disable check), the rules have an example that suggests, but doesn't specifically state, that no use of the thieves tool is valid to aid someone, which makes the issue a little cloudy.

Only the character who encountered the barrier can defeat it. If the Thieves' Tools could let you help someone else defeat a barrier, they would have verbiage similar to Sanctuary.

Good point, well made, proves what I was saying somewhat. If you need to read multiple cards in order to understand one odd card layout, that suggests to me that the one odd card needs clarifying by errata, or since this is not a cheap game, a replacement card.

It's more a case of one of the main rules of the game: Cards do what they say and no more. The rules say only you can defeat the bane you encountered and the Thieves' Tools don't say otherwise, so they can't let someone else defeat their bane. I only contrasted Sanctuary because it's an example of a card that does more because it says it does.

True, with thieves tools it is simply a case of the wording being unclear, it could easily have said 'your' at almost any point and voila! no problem. though too many uses of the word 'your' and it would feel like they had tourette syndrome :P

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Vic Wertz wrote:

While I did put the size issue out there because I think it's important for people to know going in, I honestly think it will make *very* little difference in practice. We're talking about half a millimeter here. If you square up a stack of cards and closely examine it, then yes, you can pick them out... but I don't think most people square up every stack in play perfectly; at least, when I stack cards, it's not uncommon for some cards to be more than a millimeter from square, meaning you won't be able to spot the size difference unless you're really *trying* to.

I can't spot the difference casually. But when cards of different sizes are shuffled, they tend to group together in a way that same-sized cards will not. We have the same problem with FFG's cards in Arkham Horror. Anything you can do to keep the cards uniform size going forward would be appreciated as nothing frustrates us more in a card game than cards that don't shuffle properly.

Since it was only the character add-on deck that was a different size the problem is diminishing as we get further into the AP and banish more cards.

[Vic Wertz]

Vyvyan Basterd wrote:

Since it was only the character add-on deck that was a different size the problem is diminishing as we get further into the AP and banish more cards.

To be clear there, the first printing of *every* Rise of the Runelords set was done in China, and all reprints are being done in the US. We're currently shipping US reprints of Adventure Decks 2, 3, and 4 to all markets. We're also shipping US reprints of the Character Add-On Deck to stores, but we're still shipping the end of the first printing out to paizo.com customers.

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Thanks for replying Vic! Since I posted this I've stumbled across the full story and it looks like you guys have worked this out going forward. We still really enjoy the game despite the shuffling difficulties. It does get better in our situation as Basics get removed from the set.

[Rubius]

Did not play the game yet. Bought the game and all expansions, printed the updated rules and the FAQ. But I think I would buy an Errata deck too, but I'm hoping that the shipping to Canada wont be too high. Will this include an errata for the base game only, or expansions and promos?

[Hawkmoon269]

I think the plan is for all the errata. Except maybe the promo, since that would undo its promo-ness.

If you sleeve your cards, these can help you while wait for the errata printing.

[Andrew K]

Rubius wrote:

Did not play the game yet. Bought the game and all expansions, printed the updated rules and the FAQ. But I think I would buy an Errata deck too, but I'm hoping that the shipping to Canada wont be too high. Will this include an errata for the base game only, or expansions and promos?

Maybe give a pack of errata'd promos to anyone subscribing to the first release after the deck would come out? It gives a chance for late subscribers to get older promos, and makes sure that the promos are still limited to subscribers and the lucky few who get it added to their Paizo order / FLGS purchase.

[Bidmaron]

They aren't going to do this until S&S comes out, nor do I blame them, but it's a shame since people won't be able to use them as much since they'll play S&S.

[Vic Wertz]

Well, we're not going to do it until S&S goes to the printer, at least. And also the Class Decks. But after that, I'll see if I can fit in some work on it before I'm buried in the AP *after* S&S...

[Bidmaron]

Well, there will be errata on decks 5 and 6 most likely and you wouldn't want to do this more than once. Very understandable and smart business. Those of us who adore the game will be right there. I'm just glad you guys are supporting it at all. Part of why I'm such a Paizo fan. If you came out with Pathfinder tiddlywinks I'd have to think hard about subscribing.

[Koga Wolfe]

Will the boxes say somewhere if it's a 2nd printing?

[Vic Wertz]

First printings say "Printed in China." at the end of the legal text on the back.

Second printings say "Second Printing. Printed in USA." on the back at the bottom right.

[Steve Geddes]

I'm afraid i haven't been following very closely. Are you incorporating errata into the second printings a la the RPG rule books? Or is the only way to get erratic cards the eventual decks covering the whole "season"?

[Andrew K]

Vic, if I remember a previous post by you correctly (but maybe I don't), second printings also open from the side of the box, not the top, correct?

[Vic Wertz]

The second printings do contain errata. We have no "season" decks planned.

And yes, second printing tuck boxes are slightly thicker, have taller hang-tabs at the top, and open from the side. The bar code has also moved from the back to the bottom.

[Steve Geddes]

Vic Wertz wrote:

The second printings do contain errata. We have no "season" decks planned.

Ooo, awesome. And are there second printings of the Base set around too or are they all still first printings?

Basically - if I want to get erratad everything, is there some guaranteed way I can do that?

[Hawkmoon269]

I was wondering the same thing about the base set. I'm considering eventually buying a second printing of everything due to the card size change so that if I mix cards in they will all be the same size.

The one drawback to your plan of hoping the second printing will contain all the errata is that, for decks 4+, the second printing is basically happening before the first printing is all the way out the door. It is just too popular an item for Paizo to wait on the second printing. So any errata discovered this late might not make it into the second printing.

[Steve Geddes]

Ah well, nothing's perfect. Still - it's a step up from the 1st printing. :)

[Vic Wertz]

The Rise of the Runelords Base Set is still in the first printing.

[Steve Geddes]

Thanks, Vic. I'll hold off then.

[Cheshyr]

Did I miss something, or have these cards not been released to drivethrucards.com? I can't find them on the catalogue, and it seems unlikely that this simple solution, proposed 7 months ago, hasn't been implemented.

If size is still an issue, what exactly are the differences? Vic said that drivethru's cards are 0.5mm shorter than PACG's, but is that relative to the Chinese first printing, or the American current cards? Also, have you considered other sources? superiorpod.com also does to-order card sets in poker, bridge, tarot and square format.

[Hawkmoon269]

Though I think some of your questions can only really be answered by Paizo, here are the answers/guesses to a few of them.

Cheshyr wrote:

Did I miss something, or have these cards not been released to drivethrucards.com? I can't find them on the catalogue, and it seems unlikely that this simple solution, proposed 7 months ago, hasn't been implemented.

An "errata deck" has not been released yet. Vic indicates the plan for now is to get the Skull and Shackles Adventure Path and the Character Decks to the printer first before attempting the errata printing.

Cheshyr wrote:

If size is still an issue, what exactly are the differences? Vic said that drivethru's cards are 0.5mm shorter than PACG's, but is that relative to the Chinese first printing, or the American current cards?

The size difference of .5mm was between the Chinese first printing and the errata cards. The American second printing cards are .5mm shorter than the Chinese first printing, so they errata would match them. Note that many of the errata were corrected in the second printings. Though the Base Set has not been issued as a second printing yet.

Cheshyr wrote:

Also, have you considered other sources? superiorpod.com also does to-order card sets in poker, bridge, tarot and square format.

I have no knowledge of what Paizo has investigated, but I'd imagine at this point they would have also considered using what ever printer they are using for the second printing and will be using for the future releases. But that is just rampant speculation on my part.

[Fayries]

A month and a half ago,

Vic Wertz wrote:

Vyvyan Basterd wrote:

Since it was only the character add-on deck that was a different size the problem is diminishing as we get further into the AP and banish more cards.

To be clear there, the first printing of *every* Rise of the Runelords set was done in China, and all reprints are being done in the US. We're currently shipping US reprints of Adventure Decks 2, 3, and 4 to all markets. We're also shipping US reprints of the Character Add-On Deck to stores, but we're still shipping the end of the first printing out to paizo.com customers.

With any luck, could it be that ordering a Character Add-On Deck today from paizo.com would still yield me a 1st printing, or am I definitely late for this party?

[Vic Wertz]

We've moved on to the second printing of Character Add-On Decks... but if you buy a non-mint copy, those are all still first printing. (Non-Mint means that the box is dinged or scuffed, but the cards should be undamaged.)

[kauai]

I've seen 1st printings @ Barnes & Noble and on eBay.

[MajorHavok]

Vic,

So where are we at now with a schedule for being able to order updated cards for ROTR? Was this waiting for S&S to go to the printer?

[Andrew K]

Keep in mind, Havok, that it was never said that updated cards would DEFINITELY be available.

[Vic Wertz]

At this point, it makes sense to wait until you've all seen Adventure Deck 6 so that we can offer up a set that contains (hopefully) everything.

[JBiggs78]

However, and Vic please correct me if I'm wrong, won't any "correction" decks be printed stateside, so we'd run into the 1st print vs 2nd print dilemma?

I don't say this to be negative, but as somebody with all first prints that has resisted sleeving thus far, being able to know exactly when a BotG is coming would matter.

[Vic Wertz]

The errata cards will be available via print-on-demand at DriveThruCards; their card size matches our US printer's card size, so yes, it's about .5mm shorter than the 1st printing cards. That's not enough to spot the difference across the table, unless you keep your card decks perfectly squared up all the time and you're looking really hard for that difference.

I have worked with DriveThru to color-match the cardbacks as closely as possible.

[Deanoth]

Vic Wertz wrote:

The errata cards will be available via print-on-demand at DriveThruCards; their card size matches our US printer's card size, so yes, it's about .5mm shorter than the 1st printing cards. That's not enough to spot the difference across the table, unless you keep your card decks perfectly squared up all the time and you're looking really hard for that difference.

I have worked with DriveThru to color-match the cardbacks as closely as possible.

Will these be available soon? I say this would be the case :)

[Vic Wertz]

Vic Wertz wrote:

At this point, it makes sense to wait until you've all seen Adventure Deck 6 so that we can offer up a set that contains (hopefully) everything.

[NariusV]

Having now the complete RotRL sets from 1 to 6 from my subscription, I'm looking forward to the Drive Thru errata set. :)

[Fayries]

Vic Wertz wrote:

I have worked with DriveThru to color-match the cardbacks as closely as possible.

If this errata deck happens, will it be color-matched to the 1st (Chinese) printing, or to the 2nd (American) printing?

To answer the question of the very first post, now that I've collected every possible deck in their 1st printing incarnation, I would only buy the errata deck if it was color-matched to the 1st printing.

[Andrew K]

Sadly, Drive Thru will likely do the job right and do second print color (to be honest, there really isn't a first print color. There's about 10 of them, which was the problem). If first printing color and size were available that would be the only way probably I'd buy the errata.

Actually, knowing me, I'll likely buy the deck, see how it merges with my first printings, and either keep it, or give to my local shop.