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Accounting for druids wild-shaping into elementals, what can the elemental wear?
Armor seems to be allowed, as one of the elemental traits is "Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor."
So a normal, say, air elemental isn't proficient but can still wear it. And we'll be using the druid's proficiency.
How much more does it cost for the armor? Does it count at barding at double cost instead?
What about magic item slots? I don't see why they wouldn't count as humanoid if the druid chose to, so I think all slots are open.
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I just looked over the Animal Archive for guidance and elementals are missing from the list.
I'd say your baseline elemental creature (air, earth, fire, water) has no item slots, and cannot wear armor. It is formless. The mention of being proficient with whatever armor is listed in its description is meant to apply to other creatures with the elemental subtype, like Azers.
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Since Animal Archive came out there are now "body types" that define what item slots creatures can wear. Elementals are not on the list, so the most strict interpretation would be that they can wear nothing. If this is for PFS, I'd have to say go with that for now until something else comes down the line. But, also, keep in mind that when a Druid uses Wildshape, her gear melds with her body, so what item slots you would have is probably not relevant most of the time.
If this is for a home game, you have lots of options. You could make non-humanoid armor of the appropriate size. Non-humanoid is a blanket statement. As long as you have a set of large-sized, non-humanoid armor it will fit a horse, a centaur, or a dinosaur. It would be easy to houserule that it could fit a large-sized elemental as well.
You could probably houserule eyes and headband as well, as I think even snakes and vermin can wear those, and they have the next most restrictive body types. Ioun Stones should be no problem for home or PFS as well.
In almost a year of playing PFS I've only met one character that had an air elemental familiar, and I don't recall it wearing gear, so this question doesn't come up a lot. What are you planning?
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Since Animal Archive came out there are now "body types" that define what item slots creatures can wear. Elementals are not on the list, so the most strict interpretation would be that they can wear nothing.
If you read the individual elemental descriptions, you will note that elementals are free to choose their body type.
For example:
When an earth elemental lumbers into action, its actual appearance can vary, although its statistics remain identical to other elementals of its size. Most earth elementals look like terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth, or even crystal, with glowing gemstones for eyes. Larger earth elementals often have a stony humanoid appearance.
If you read the individual elemental descriptions, you will note that elementals are free to choose their body type.
To me, it just says that there are elementals with various body types, not that they can switch from one to another.
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Elemental are Outsider (Elemental)
An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence. An outsider has the following features.
d10 Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Two good saving throws, usually Reflex and Will.
Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme.Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
Darkvision 60 feet.
Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don't work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.
and
An elemental is a being composed entirely from one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water. An elemental has the following features.
Immunity to bleed, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Elementals do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
So nothing in its description said it can't wear armor. But as the elemental's decription doesn't mention armor, Elemental are not proficient with them
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Fire Elementals can only wear items made of Asbestos.
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If you read the individual elemental descriptions, you will note that elementals are free to choose their body type.To me, it just says that there are elementals with various body types, not that they can switch from one to another.
It makes it impossible to place elementals under a specific heading for body type.
As for elementals choosing their individual appearance:
Fire elementals vary in appearance—they usually manifest as coiling serpentine forms made of smoke and flame, but some fire elementals take on shapes more akin to humans, demons, or other monsters in order to increase the terror of their sudden appearance.
The exact wording varies from type to type. Fire elementals, for example, are stated as choosing their shape. Given context and the minor variations in wording, I would say this is true of all elementals.
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also, using Animal Archive as precedent for Elemental slots is like comparing apples and oranges.
of course elementals aren't in Animal Archive. they're neither a familiar nor an animal companion, which is what that book is confined to.
Its better to look at the Polymorph Subsection in the Magic section, since when a Druid Wild Shapes into an elemental, they use the polymorph rules. I'll agree that elementals , if you're designing an encounter with a creature, can be outfitted with armor. but as a druid, you'll need to put your armor on after you change shape, unless it has the Wild enhancement.
if you're turning into a fire elemental, you're going to want to be sure equipment you're donning post-change is immune to fire damage or resistant to your Burn, if you have it.
Armor made of Red Dragon Scales would be immune to fire damage, if I recall right.
The exact wording varies from type to type. Fire elementals, for example, are stated as choosing their shape. Given context and the minor variations in wording, I would say this is true of all elementals.
Good point, I never noticed that.
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of course elementals aren't in Animal Archive. they're neither a familiar nor an animal companion, which is what that book is confined to.
You may choose an elemental as an improved familiar.
I only resorted to using the Animal Archive as a guide, though, given the lack of any other source, and was not using it as a definitive final answer.
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not a definitive answer eh?
Since Animal Archive came out there are now "body types" that define what item slots creatures can wear. Elementals are not on the list, so the most strict interpretation would be that they can wear nothing. If this is for PFS, I'd have to say go with that for now until something else comes down the line. But, also, keep in mind that when a Druid uses Wildshape, her gear melds with her body, so what item slots you would have is probably not relevant most of the time.
it sure sounds like you were issuing definitive advice, trying to quote animal archive > familiar slots for a druid / wildshape question.
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For someone who accuses me of cherrypicking my quotes, you seem to be pretty proficient at it yourself.
I just looked over the Animal Archive for guidance and elementals are missing from the list.
I'd say your baseline elemental creature (air, earth, fire, water) has no item slots, and cannot wear armor. It is formless. The mention of being proficient with whatever armor is listed in its description is meant to apply to other creatures with the elemental subtype, like Azers.
If I understood the original question right, then this was about the elemental shape of a druid and when a druid uses his ability to become an elemental doesn't his equipment change along with him and doesn't he retain his AC???
I think, because elemental are immune to crits and sneak attacks (!), they are formless and may switch their anatomy. So you can not take armor for elemental.
If I understood the original question right, then this was about the elemental shape of a druid and when a druid uses his ability to become an elemental doesn't his equipment change along with him and doesn't he retain his AC???
Common misconception. You see, wildshape is based off of beast shape (and other related spells), which are part of the polymorph school of spells. Basically, when you use a polymorph spell, your equipment does get absorbed. But that is only when the spell is being cast, and only on items that are on your person. After the spell is in effect, it does not make items just get sucked into your for rounds/hours on end.
So if you drop your weapon, or not wear your armor, you can later just put it on and use it like usual. This is not often used though, since wildshape lets you pick a lot of different creatures to turn into, and they can vary a lot in size and shape. So buying magical armor for a tiger, trent, pigeon, and allosaurus is too much of a strain on resources to bother. You would also have to actually put the armor on, which is impractical to do in combat.
But if an elemental can have a humanoid shape, and use weapons and armor, then wildshape can be used as an entirely different kind of ability. Elementals have the ability to speak, and if they can use weapons then it would not be a stretch for them to also use things like wands and staves. So, if you pick a good form that gives decent buffs, what is stopping you from turning into that for the entire day? And why not simply get your equipment made for the form you use most? And it is not like the druid's proficiency list is completely terrible. Scimitars are fantastic. Imagine that on a large earth elemental, which gives rather large bonuses to strength, as well as AC and constitution.
So, I would like to leave off with this: for those arguing 'formlessness', what is your opinion of earth elementals? They are made up of the kind of stone and dirt which can support the weight of an adventurer in fullplate, as well as his horse. So why can't they wear armor? It is not like that leather is passing through the ground while it just sits there. And the whole 'immune to crits' thing seemed like a side effect of not having organs, blood, and other fleshy bits, rather than a constantly shifting anatomy.
They're typically allergic to latex, but lambskin is fine
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Polymorph:
(...)
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
If you turn into an elemental, your gear melds into your body. You have no choice in that. (As a side effect, your gear is safe from Sunder and theft.)
However, since you have some control over the specific form you take, and most elementals can take humanoid form, you can turn into a humanoid elemental (of some size) and then wear humanoid armor. But you'll have to don it after your transformation.
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I've been thinking about this, since I just got my air elemental familiar. It looks like I can buy it armor, but since it's whirlwind effect is a transformation into an elemental shape, it is going to lose the effect of the armor the moment it transforms.
Flame elementals are easy, just buy red dragon hide armor. The armor is immune to fire.
I've been thinking about this, since I just got my air elemental familiar. It looks like I can buy it armor, but since it's whirlwind effect is a transformation into an elemental shape, it is going to lose the effect of the armor the moment it transforms.
Flame elementals are easy, just buy red dragon hide armor. The armor is immune to fire.
Does "all of your gear" also include your pack mule and all of the gear it's carrying?
If you have 2 bison attached to your light wagon, does your animals and wagon get melded into your body as well?
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I've been thinking about this, since I just got my air elemental familiar. It looks like I can buy it armor, but since it's whirlwind effect is a transformation into an elemental shape, it is going to lose the effect of the armor the moment it transforms.
Flame elementals are easy, just buy red dragon hide armor. The armor is immune to fire.
Does "all of your gear" also include your pack mule and all of the gear it's carrying?
If you have 2 bison attached to your light wagon, does your animals and wagon get melded into your body as well?
Other creatures don't change with you for sure. A wagon isn't part of your gear, it is a vehicle. Your gear is what you can carry.
Wild armor and other transforming armor: When I use a wild armor and gain the armor’s benefits, what restrictions, if any, apply to me? In general, when I transform with a polymorph effect and some of my gear melds into the form, what restrictions do I have for melding with large amounts of heavy gear? What about other types of transforming armor?
If you were in medium or heavy load from encumbrance before transforming, you continue to take those penalties in your melded form. Otherwise, ignore the weight of melded items and calculate your encumbrance in your polymorphed form entirely based on non-melded items. When wearing melded armor and shields, if you gain no benefit from the melded armor, you still count as wearing an armor of that type, but you do not suffer its armor check penalty, movement speed reduction, or arcane spell failure chance. If you do gain any benefits (as with the wild property), then you do suffer the armor check penalty, movement speed reduction, and arcane spell failure chance. This also applies to all other situations where you or an armor transform: you always count as wearing an armor of that type, and if you gain any benefit at all from the armor (such as mistmail), you apply the armor check penalty, movement speed reduction, and arcane spell failure chance.[/quite]