Polearm Paladin Help


Advice


Greetings all. I would appreciate some advice on how to build a pole arm wielding paladin. I am seeking ideas on which pole arm to use as well as what feats to choose.
This will be a PFS character, so please list the source book for any weapon, feat, or trait that doesn't come from the Core Rulebook.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I guess it would help if you just list which books you got.

The polearm depends if you want to go melee or reach.
Melee is a halberd.
Reach:
-Guisarme has a trip bonus
-Ranseur and Bill disarm bonus
-Lucerne Hammer is bludgeoning
-Fauchard has a trip bonus and 18-20 crit, but is exotic.
-Naginata has smaller damage, but a nice x4 crit.

Recommendable feats are of course the normal 2-handed feats
-power attack and any follow ups - cornugon smash for free intimidate (cheliax book)
-weapon focus - spear dancer for 1 round dazzled if hit (faiths of purity)
-combat reflexes to make use of your AoO with reach and some DEX.
-combat expertise and improved maneuver feats if you want to specialize

Depending on if you have low light vision or darkvision consider moonlight stalker from Ultimate COmbat. It needs blind-fight as a prereq and combat expertise, but if you have a reliable means of concealment you get +2 on damage and attack, what is essentially more than weapon focus and weapon expertise together. Also with concealment you have better defenses.

Tianjin Temple guard from Dragon Empires Primer gives you a +1 on AoO´s with Polearm weapons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just remember to not close off all your options when a target gets inside your reach.


Right now I am looking at a Human Paladin with a reach pole arm. Either guisarme for trips or naginata for crits.

Weapon focus, combat reflexes, power attack. I'm at a lost for what would be good after that.


Play him for a while and you'll have an idea what you need. Those are a good start.

Cornugon smash works nicely with intimidate.

If you go the trip route, Improved Trip and GreaterTrip are obvious feats. Lunge works nicely with reach weapons, and you may want to consider Cleave if you usually face lots of foes.

Also, think of ways to cover weaknesses. Save bonus feats, Extra Lay on Hands, and a Toughness all improve your durability (important for a frontline character).

You won't really have feats to do a lot of archery support, but at least make sure to carry a ranged weapon you can use.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Fey Foundling is nice for a Paladin, since you get extra healing from your lay on hands. Don´t know where it´s from right now, since i got no stuff here at the moment.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

a one level dip into monk ensures that you never have to worry about an enemy closing inside polearm range (cause you can kick/headbutt/whatever it) and bolsters your defenses if you happen to get caught unarmored (assuming a positive Wis mod). it also scores you stunning fist (or some other cool/useful thing) and a bonus feat you get to pick; you'll almost never get to flurry (wearing armor and focusing on wrong weapon), so take an archetype that gives that up: maneuver master gets a free combat maneuver that as far as i can tell you can make in armor with any weapon, or master of many styles would let you pick up any style feat.

ps- fey foundling is from the inner sea world guide, and is very useful for a paladin...


My current plan is to use armor spikes against someone who is inside my reach.


Check this thread for useful information on an attempt for a viable polearm Paladin with switch-hitting capabilities too.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oen0?Toying-around-with-an-Elven-Paladin

Sovereign Court

Unsanctioned Knowledge from Ultimate Magic lets you add some nifty Bard, Inquisitor, or Cleric spells to your list. Spending a feat to let your Paladin cast, say, Silent Image, Invisibility, and Haste ain't too shabby. If you don't want to spend all your feats on making yourself a combat monster, this or Skill Focus is a nice way to go.

Fey Foundling will definitely make you harder to kill. Funny how many paladins get found in the wild as kids...

Oh, and Extra Lay on Hands gets you more HP than Toughness does.

PS: If you're going to go the Trip route, look into Adept Champion from Ultimate Combat. It lets you temporarily trade smite damage for a bonus on combat maneuvers. (Still probably not worth it but worth checking out.)


lucerne hammer is bludgeoning and piercing aswell as a d12 for damage is nice if you get enlarged as it becomes 3d6

also the +2 on sunder is nice if you like that sort of thing (i made a sundering barb once)


MatthewN wrote:
My current plan is to use armor spikes against someone who is inside my reach.

I don't know if PFS uses the FAQ as a guide, but the devs recently decided that if you attack with a two-handed weapon then you can't use armor spikes as it's an "off-hand" attack and both your "hands" were used wielding your 2h-er. That means no AoOs with armor spikes if you attacked with your polearm.


I played a Paladin with trip, disarm and a Ranseur in D&D3.5, but very quickly decided that disarming and tripping them wasn't actually as effective as simply smacking them in the face with the pointy end.

I guess combat manoeuvres get more effective as you meet enemies with better defences.

Silver Crusade

Cestus

You can still wield a weapon with a cestus.


If you have Improved Trip you can simply use your legs to trip an opponent who gets too close.


You don't need a cestus or any other weapon besides a polearm while playing a paladin. And by that, I mean that the full-plate that you're sure to be wearing can have armor spikes as well. And those spikes allow you to threaten and atatck anyone in 5ft range. Bonus is that you don't need to you hands to wield it.


Dwarf longhammer is beastly in the right hands. Also a Dwarf paladin with a dorn dergar and the proper feats can switch from reach to non reach and still womp.

Silver Crusade

Since you are a reach weapon wielder with Combat Reflexes you should be getting lots of AoOs. Ideally, you will get an extra 'free attack' on each melee foe who rushes you, beyond your normal actions. This can double your damage output, especially in the crucial early rounds. Whether or not it works out this way largely depends on tactics and teamwork used by other members of your party.

Learn to maximize your AoOs. Work with your party, so they set you up and don't prevent your AoOs. As a Paladin you will often be in front, so this should not be too difficult. Here's a thread with suggestions about how to maximize AoOs for a reach weapon wielder.

Shadow Lodge

TLO3 wrote:
MatthewN wrote:
My current plan is to use armor spikes against someone who is inside my reach.
I don't know if PFS uses the FAQ as a guide, but the devs recently decided that if you attack with a two-handed weapon then you can't use armor spikes as it's an "off-hand" attack and both your "hands" were used wielding your 2h-er. That means no AoOs with armor spikes if you attacked with your polearm.

*Groan* -- under the same logic, you couldn't use the polearm itself to make an AoO either. Besides, ungripping and regripping a polearm is a free-action.... (Good grief. But let's save it for another thread.)

Fortunately, enemies getting inside your reach is almost never a problem that a 5' can't solve unless you're Enlarged or you decided to stand in a corner. (Being grappled is another matter, but then you won't be using the polearm, so your off-handedness isn't an issue.)

Shadow Lodge

Back to the OP:

As a paladin, you'll frequently enjoy hefty numeric bonuses to damage; and these lend themselves well to weapons with extended threat-ranges.

STR:14
DEX:14
CON:14
INT:12
WIS:07
CHA+15

traits: Defender of the Society, Dangerously Curious

01 fight1 [Unarmed], Dragon Style, Combat Reflexes, EWP:Fauchard
02 pala1 (strap on that full-plate!)
03 pala2 [divine grace], Weapon Focus:Fauchard
04 pala3
05 figh2 Power Attack, Pushing Assault
06 pala4
07 pala5 [weapon bond], Dodge

* IMO skip the trip feats; by mid-levels it's going to be you vs. big monsters with unbeatable CMDs.
* Delay Power Attack, as your total attack bonus isn't initially stellar.
* Dodge and DotS trait work to keep your AC ahead of the curve as enemies ramp up multiattacks


The whole reason for using armor spikes is to threaten the spaces inside my reach. I am very disappointed in the wording of Stand Still and Step Up. I wish they said threatened squares instead of adjacent squares

Sovereign Court

I wouldn't start any melee combatant with less than 16 str, and preferably 18 for a two-hander. At first level, you go from +4 attack, (weapon damage) + 4 damage to +5 attack, (weapon damage) + 6 damage.

Oh, and I was going to have my Half-Elf Paladin of Shelyn wield a Fauchard, until I saw the Ripsaw Glaive in the exotic weapons section. More crits may mean more damage overall, but I just can't beat the awesome factor of a paladin smiting things with a rainbow chainsaw.


TLO3 wrote:
MatthewN wrote:
My current plan is to use armor spikes against someone who is inside my reach.
I don't know if PFS uses the FAQ as a guide, but the devs recently decided that if you attack with a two-handed weapon then you can't use armor spikes as it's an "off-hand" attack and both your "hands" were used wielding your 2h-er. That means no AoOs with armor spikes if you attacked with your polearm.

Just to clarify because I didn't see this post before the thread was buried and then got dug up again, then and quoted by Sir Thugsalot, this isn't quite right.

The FAQ ruling that was made is:

Quote:

Armor Spikes: Can I use two-weapon fighting to make an "off-hand" attack with my armor spikes in the same round I use a two-handed weapon?

No.
Likewise, you couldn't use an armored gauntlet to do so, as you are using both of your hands to wield your two-handed weapon, therefore your off-hand is unavailable to make any attacks.

Which sounds like where you getting you're idea from. However, that isn't quite what it means. This FAQ was made to prevent people from Two Weapon Fighting while wielding a 2 handed weapon. It was meant to prevent a 6th level fighter with TWF and ITWF from using an attack sequence of Greatsword, Greatsword, Armor Spike, Armor Spike.

There is a very long thread about it where the details and implications of the FAQ are hashed out her.

You will find the initial posting of the FAQ near the bottom of page 1. There are 29 more pages of discussion about what this means afterwards. Good luck.

However, you should still be able to attack with your armor spikes as an AoO rather than your greatsword because the armor spike attack is not an offhand attack at that point, it is merely the attack granted by an AoO.

Shadow Lodge

Reynard_the_fox wrote:
I wouldn't start any melee combatant with less than 16 str, and preferably 18 for a two-hander.

Paladins are attrition fighters, not massive damage-dealers (except vs. evil, of course). By 5th-level, a STR:14 paladin has the same STR+BAB attack bonus as a STR:18 warrior cleric or other d8 class. Keep your AC up and win the attrition game with LoH and great saves. Power Attack also yields the biggest percentage gain to damage when you're NOT hugely strong.

The build in my last post forgot the racial bump, so either 16 STR or 17 CHA; or switch the stats for an 18 STR at 4th with a 14 CHA.

....assuming switch stats for STR emphasis, here's what the paladin eats by having a 14 CHA rather than an 18:

* -0 melee or -2 ranged attack, and -2 AC-vs-target while Smiting
* -2 to all saves after Divine Grace
* -2 uses of Lay on Hands
* -2 to Diplomacy, Intimidate and UMD (if you took Dangerously Curious)
* unlikely to ever receive bonus spells (CHA:20 required)

STR pumpers with 14 CHA are tugged inexorably in the direction of NOT dumping WIS (which high-CHA paladins are otherwise tailor-made for), meaning not only are they paying high point-buy costs for initial STR scores of 16 or higher, but they're also forfeiting 4 build points just hauling WIS from 7 back up to 10.

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