Dragons demand bonus chronicle sheet question


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Dark Archive 2/5

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Is the bonus 4th chronicle sheet awarded only to a PFS character who has the previous three chronicle sheets for this module or can a player award all four chronicle sheets to PFS Characters of his or herchoice. I am running this module as a "home" game on Fantasy Grounds ( The Rolls Royce of VTT's!) and one of my players asked me this question. As the sheets have still yet to be published I thought I would ask here in the hope of an answer

Liberty's Edge 3/5 Venture-Agent, Ohio—Dayton aka Jocard The Fist

It was my understanding if you played the full module (as a "home" game, like you said you were), then you get four chronicle sheets to put on any characters you wish.

If you only run the PFS content as if they were scenarios(meaning you use PFS legal characters), you only get the three sheets: one for each piece of PFS content you play in. Those must go on the PFS characters that play them.

Dark Archive 2/5

That's what I understood as well but I was hoping from answer from the developer or a society officer in the know or better yet the actual chronicle sheets!

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

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Hawkwing wrote:
That's what I understood as well but I was hoping from answer from the developer or a society officer in the know or better yet the actual chronicle sheets!

Often when a thread seems to come to a consensus, Mike or I don't see the need to chime in. Jocard has it almost right. A player who plays through the home game style may assign a fourth Chronicle sheet only if he or she assigned the first three sheets to the same character.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 Venture-Agent, Ohio—Dayton aka Jocard The Fist

Ah, thanks for the clarification John. I must have missed that in the original blog.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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My players are really looking forward towards the sheets. I figure that we should be done by the 2nd week of October.

5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

John Compton wrote:
A player who plays through the home game style may assign a fourth Chronicle sheet only if he or she assigned the first three sheets to the same character.

Thanks for the clarification, John.

I'm the player Hawkwing talked about, btw ;) It just felt a bit strange to give 3 chronicles to different characters and then apply a bonus chronicle to a fourth character.
Now I need to figure out which of my characters will get the chronicles. :)

5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

oh, and I almost forgot: But I suppose, the character receiving the chronicles is allowed to receive other chronicles in between, right? (Of course, giving the character enough XP to raise his level above the tier of the next Dragon's Demand chronicle wouldn't be very wise.)

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

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When playing in the home game or "campaign mode" style, the player should receive the Chronicles all at once. In this way, the Chronicle sheets apply immediately as soon as each one is applicable. The only way to add Chronicle sheets in between would be to have applied all of the sheets that you could and still need to gain another level to qualify for the next.

Example:
– I play the whole thing and apply the credit to a 1st level character.
– I must immediately apply sheet #1 (Tier 1–3) and sheet #4 (Tiers 2, 4, or 6 only), bringing me to level 3. Once that happens, I qualify to receive sheet #2 (Tier 3–5), bringing me to level 4.
– I cannot yet apply sheet #3 (Tier 5–7) because I am only level 4. I can now play whatever I want until I reach 12 XP, at which point I am level 5, and sheet #5 applies immediately.

Think of it sort of like applying GM credit to a character who is not yet of the appropriate level. You apply everything you can and then hold the rest in reserve until you would legally qualify for them.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

John,

If I apply the Chronicles to a 2nd-level PC (with 3.5 xp) who is currently going on slow progression, would he be required to apply sheets 1, 4, and 2, all of them, in slow progression, or could he shift back to regular progression between sheets?

If he hypothetically had 3.0 xp, would the answer be different?

The Exchange

are the Chronicle sheets available yet?

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Chris Mortika wrote:

John,

If I apply the Chronicles to a 2nd-level PC (with 3.5 xp) who is currently going on slow progression, would he be required to apply sheets 1, 4, and 2, all of them, in slow progression, or could he shift back to regular progression between sheets?

If he hypothetically had 3.0 xp, would the answer be different?

It would seem that when a particular Chronicle sheet triggers, a player should be able to choose if the Chronicle sheet is normal track or slow track following the usual rules (i.e. ensuring that the character makes that choice for the first Chronicle sheet of a given level).

Example A: The character is at level 2.15 on slow track and earns all four Chronicle sheets at once. The player applies #1 first (slow track), bringing the character to level 3 even. He could then apply all others on normal track if desired.

Example B: The character is instead at level 2.10 when all of this happens. After applying the first Chronicle sheet, the character is now at 2.25—0.5 XP away from being level 3. Chronicle sheet #4 applies next (Tiers 2, 4, and 6), bringing the character to 3.10. Unfortunately, because of the way the Chronicle sheets fall, he does not get a chance to switch between progressions. Perhaps the GM could warn him ahead of time.

If this sets the stage for an unperceived injustice that could be corrected without unduly upsetting the slow track mechanics, let me know.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Please see the post that I just made in the module's product discussion thread.

The Exchange

Thank you sir. sorry if seems like i keep bugging about them. my players just keep asking for them and i'm just trying to keep informed on this so i can tell them

Grand Lodge 4/5

And Thank your friend too .. if I could I'd send along a six pack of Cheerwine to think your unspecified associate. :D

My players are champing at the bit, they read the boards and know that some 'neat' stuff was coming.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Chronicle sheets for The Dragon's Demand are now available for download.

Lantern Lodge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City aka Black Powder Chocobo

Woot!

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

Very nice. I like these - they are quite unique indeed. Worth the wait.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

John Compton wrote:
Chronicle sheets for The Dragon's Demand are now available for download.

The gold on the bonus chronicle sheet (#4) seems super low.

lvl 2: 1000
lvl 4: 1,500
lvl 6: 6,500

The equivalently leveled chronicle sheets for the rest of The Dragon's Demand give ~:

lvl 2: 1500
lvl 4: 4,800
lvl 6: 8,700

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Pirate Rob wrote:
John Compton wrote:
Chronicle sheets for The Dragon's Demand are now available for download.

The gold on the bonus chronicle sheet (#4) seems super low.

lvl 2: 1000
lvl 4: 1,500
lvl 6: 6,500

The equivalently leveled chronicle sheets for the rest of The Dragon's Demand give ~:

lvl 2: 1500
lvl 4: 4,800
lvl 6: 8,700

This is on purpose. The 4th Chronicle sheet's wealth is intended to fill in the gaps where a PC would level, ensuring that the PC receives a touch more than WBL gold as a 4-Chronicle-sheet package.

For example, earning the 3rd Chronicle sheet at its minimum level (5) would mean that for that sheet the character is earning more gold than might otherwise happen. As a result, the 4th level sheet that would get him to 5th level gives less gold, balancing out to grant the "proper" amount.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

John Compton wrote:
Stuff

Thanks for the quick answer, I really appreciate when you take the time to explain the why behind things.

I'm having trouble articulating myself but let me try and explain why I don't like what you've done with the bonus sheet:

Maybe it's just me but it feels like this one is punishing players who play campaign mode and put all the sheets in the same character by forcing them to receive a chronicle sheet with subpar gold.

While I understand it helps even out the extra gold they get by effectively "playing up" several modules having what feels like a punitive chronicle sheet be the bonus for playing the whole thing in campaign mode leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

All that said I'm happy to see PFS try new things and appreciate the effort that's gone into sanctioning this new format.

-Thanks.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Wow.. my players will like that a LOT.

You weren't kidding, John.. that is a very interesting way to do the boons. I don't know how everyone else but I like it. Definitely like you said.. a good setup like you said.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

John: In regards to your point, I understand what you're saying, but the gain in gold is offset by the loss of PP. Consider that the chronicles for Midnight Mirror and From Shore to Sea offer exactly the same amount of gold as the second and third chronicles...


Hey, nobody is forcing you apply that 4th sheet if you hate it :p

Grand Lodge 4/5

CRobledo wrote:
Hey, nobody is forcing you apply that 4th sheet if you hate ie :p

While you are technically correct in that you don't have to apply all of the three normal chronicle sheets to the same character, if you do...

Quote:

Players who play through the entire module (not just

the sanctioned portions) using the alternate play option
detailed above and apply all three Chronicle sheets to the
same Pathfinder Society character earn a fourth Chronicle
sheet that must also be applied to that character.

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Agent, Kentucky—Lexington

John Compton wrote:
As a result, the 4th level sheet that would get him to 5th level gives less gold, balancing out to grant the "proper" amount.

I'm confused I think.

If you play the 1-3, you get to 2nd.
Then play the 3-5, gets you to 4th but you are still 2nd.
Then play the 5-7, gets you to 6th, but you are still 2nd.

Applying the 4th sheet you can get yourself to 3rd, then apply the second sheet to get to 4th. You still can't apply the 3rd sheet as you are not 4th yet.

So do you apply 6 xp from the 4th sheet? 3 xp to get to 2nd and then 3 xp to get to 4th? Wait. No.

Any way you look at it you need 6 extra XP to be able to apply all 4 sheets (12 xp) to one character, right?

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

James Risner wrote:
John Compton wrote:
As a result, the 4th level sheet that would get him to 5th level gives less gold, balancing out to grant the "proper" amount.

I'm confused I think.

If you play the 1-3, you get to 2nd.
Then play the 3-5, gets you to 4th but you are still 2nd.
Then play the 5-7, gets you to 6th, but you are still 2nd.

Applying the 4th sheet you can get yourself to 3rd, then apply the second sheet to get to 4th. You still can't apply the 3rd sheet as you are not 4th yet.

So do you apply 6 xp from the 4th sheet? 3 xp to get to 2nd and then 3 xp to get to 4th? Wait. No.

Any way you look at it you need 6 extra XP to be able to apply all 4 sheets (12 xp) to one character, right?

When reporting the event, assign all three credits to one character. Just as one can hold a GM credit or a pregen Chronicle sheet until the appropriate level, so would Chronicle sheet #3 wait to be applied (but not assigned) until a character had reached level 5.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Netopalis wrote:
John: In regards to your point, I understand what you're saying, but the gain in gold is offset by the loss of PP. Consider that the chronicles for Midnight Mirror and From Shore to Sea offer exactly the same amount of gold as the second and third chronicles...

I know it's not the operating norm, but characters are assumed to earn 4.5 PP per level. I understand full well that there's a disconnect between design intentions and actual practices and player expectations. There's a similar possibility of discrepancy in gold earned, but the modules get that just about right. I understand that players can game the system in any number of ways; I just intend to avoid having these Chronicle sheets be...self-sytem-gaming (*cough*) by allowing someone to "play up" several times with no PFS character risk only to be further rewarded (beyond something near the expected reward for a given level band) with full gold.

Example 1:
Chronicle 1 (Tier 1–3) takes character from 2 to 3—normal gold earned
Chronicle 2 (Tier 3–5) takes character from 3 to 4—slightly higher than expected gold
Chronicle 4 (Tier 4) takes character from 4 to 5—slightly lower than expected gold
Chronicle 3 (Tier 5–7) eventually takes character from 5 to 6—slightly higher than expected gold

Added up, the entire play experience grants the character slightly higher than the expected gold without imposing any risk or expendable item costs on the character that receives the credit.

Example 2:
Chronicle 1 takes character from level 3 to 4—slightly lower than expected gold (smaller margin due to lower level)
Chronicle 2 takes character from 4 to 5—normal gold earned
Chronicle 3 takes character from 5 to 6—slightly higher than expected gold (larger margin than on Chronicle sheet 1)
Chronicle 4 takes character from 6 to 7—slightly lower than expected gold

Added up, the entire play experience grants the character approximately the average gold for playing a string of modules without imposing any risk or expendable item costs on the character that receives the credit.

Pirate Rob wrote:
While I understand it helps even out the extra gold they get by effectively "playing up" several modules having what feels like a punitive chronicle sheet be the bonus for playing the whole thing in campaign mode leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Kindly understand that I do not see the values on Chronicle sheet 4 as a punishment. It grants more XP as well as an amount of gold that helps to fill in the gaps while also respecting the dearth of expended character resources. The only matter that I might consider lower than desired in retrospect is the Prestige Point award on the 4th sheet, which might be better as 5 PP to help fill in the gap left by rounding 4.5 down every sheet.

EDIT: Added a quote to clarify that I'm responding to several different ideas

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

John Compton wrote:
Kindly understand that I do not see the values on Chronicle sheet 4 as a punishment. It grants more XP as well as an amount of gold that helps to fill in the gaps while also respecting the dearth of expended character resources. The only matter that I might consider lower than desired in retrospect is the Prestige Point award on the 4th sheet, which might be better as 5 PP to help fill in the gap left by rounding 4.5 down every sheet.

Actually, John, with this fourth 4 PP chronicle sheet, the PC will be down 2 PP from the "expected" level of 4.5 PP average per level, not just 1.

4 levels are "expected" to garner 18 PP, these 4 chronicles will garner 16 PP for the PC that they are applied to.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

kinevon wrote:
John Compton wrote:
Kindly understand that I do not see the values on Chronicle sheet 4 as a punishment. It grants more XP as well as an amount of gold that helps to fill in the gaps while also respecting the dearth of expended character resources. The only matter that I might consider lower than desired in retrospect is the Prestige Point award on the 4th sheet, which might be better as 5 PP to help fill in the gap left by rounding 4.5 down every sheet.

Actually, John, with this fourth 4 PP chronicle sheet, the PC will be down 2 PP from the "expected" level of 4.5 PP average per level, not just 1.

4 levels are "expected" to garner 18 PP, these 4 chronicles will garner 16 PP for the PC that they are applied to.

Fair point.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

Thanks again for taking the time to explain the whys.

Sovereign Court

Hey John, do the chronicles have to be assigned to a "new first level PC" or can they be applied to a pre-existing PC (i.e. - A 2nd level or 3rd level PFS PC)?

EDIT: Nevermind, you outlined it above. That'll teach me to post before reading all relevant posts ... well, probably not.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Dain Nielsen wrote:
Hey John, do the chronicles have to be assigned to a "new first level PC" or can they be applied to a pre-existing PC (i.e. - A 2nd level or 3rd level PFS PC)?

If I understand your question correctly, you can assign the Chronicle sheets to a PC so long as that PC is in the given level range (as per usual) or lower (for one of the Chronicle sheets that a player might acquire through playing the campaign mode but cannot yet apply to a character). The only character to whom you could not assign one of these sheets would be a character of a level above the listed level range, as that character cannot voluntarily reduce his or her level.

Sovereign Court

And that'll teach me to edit a post without refreshing the screen ... yeah, probably not that either. ;)

Thanks John!

The Exchange

I think the boons are very, very nice (as well as the item access). We're starting this next Sunday--so excited to run it!

1/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Can a GM that runs the entire module in "campaign mode" assign the 4th chronicle sheet to a PC if he assigns the first three to that same PC? I am assuming yes, but the text specifically calls out "players" without mentioning the GM in the paragraph it talks about the bonus sheet.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

First World Bard wrote:
Can a GM that runs the entire module in "campaign mode" assign the 4th chronicle sheet to a PC if he assigns the first three to that same PC? I am assuming yes, but the text specifically calls out "players" without mentioning the GM in the paragraph it talks about the bonus sheet.

Yes, a GM who runs a module in campaign mode also receives the 4th Chronicle sheet so long as everything is assigned to the same character.

The Exchange

sorry this may have been answered already but, on the 4th sheet does a player receive all the gold or just that tier for his lvl?

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

Markus Windblade wrote:
sorry this may have been answered already but, on the 4th sheet does a player receive all the gold or just that tier for his lvl?

The character receives the gold for the level at which he or she applied the Chronicle sheet, which should be one of the three levels listed. For example, if the character is 4th level when the sheet applies, the character receives the 4th Tier gold, but not that of 2nd Tier.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

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John Compton wrote:
Markus Windblade wrote:
sorry this may have been answered already but, on the 4th sheet does a player receive all the gold or just that tier for his lvl?
The character receives the gold for the level at which he or she applied the Chronicle sheet, which should be one of the three levels listed. For example, if the character is 4th level when the sheet applies, the character receives the 4th Tier gold, but not that of 2nd Tier.

What if the PC is between tiers on the 4th sheet? Or is that even possible?

Recommended Chronicle Order?:
L1 PC
C1 - L2
C4 - L3 (L2 rewards)
C2 - L4
C3 - held to L5, makes L7

L2 PC
C1 - L3
C2 - L4
C4 - L5 (L4 rewards)
C3 - L6

L3 PC
C1 - L4
C2 - L5
C3 - L6
C4 - L7 (L6 rewards)

Is there something that says the L3 shouldn't/couldn't swap C3 and C4 around, at which point the PC would be taking the C4 at L5 instead of L6?

The Exchange

Thank you john for that clarification

Scarab Sages 5/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

kinevon wrote:


Is there something that says the L3 shouldn't/couldn't swap C3 and C4 around, at which point the PC would be taking the C4 at L5 instead of L6?

Chronicle #4 can only be applied at levels, 2,4 or 6. Look at the subtiers.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

Detailed Wealth Calculations:

Normal Wealth Distribution (Assuming playing only modules at the middle level)

lvl : wealth : total earned after leveling
1 : 1398 : 1398
2 : 1536 : 3943
3 : 3711 : 6645
4 : 4800 : 11445
5 : 6756 : 18201
6 : 8712 : 26913

DD starting at level 1:
Ending at level 4 with 7,336gp which is above the expected 6,645gp. After playing at level 4, and then applying p3 you end up at level 6 with 20,848 which is above the expected 18,201 by ~14.5%

DD starting at level 2:
Ending at level 6 with: 17,946 which is just below the expected 18,201 by ~1.4%

DD starting at level 3:
Ending at level 7 with 24486 which is below the expected 26913 by 9&

Scarab Sages 5/5

Can a GM run the whole thing (only PFS content) and still get the 4 chronicle sheet if he applies it to 1 character?

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

Utii wrote:
Can a GM run the whole thing (only PFS content) and still get the 4 chronicle sheet if he applies it to 1 character?

Players who play through the entire module (not just the sanctioned portions) using the alternate play option detailed above and apply all three Chronicle sheets to the same Pathfinder Society character earn a fourth Chronicle sheet that must also be applied to that character.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 aka GreySector

Utii wrote:
Can a GM run the whole thing (only PFS content) and still get the 4 chronicle sheet if he applies it to 1 character?

No, the 4th chronicle sheet is available only if you run in campaign mode.

Dragon's Demand Rules & Chronicle Sheet File wrote:
Players who play through the entire module (not just the sanctioned portions) using the alternate play option detailed above and apply all three Chronicle sheets to the same Pathfinder Society character earn a fourth Chronicle sheet that must also be applied to that character.


I've been really confused about this whole thing and have been told many different things. I've been told my level one character would end up level 7 because the fourth sheet will give 9xp and 12xp.

I am playing as a brand new level 1 character, and plan to play the entire thing. I just received the first sheet, and should I have gotten any of the bonus sheet too so I would be level three for the next part? I am absolutely playing the entire thing.

Can anyone explain this as simply as possible? I'm just a player new to pfs, and this tier talk isn't fully understood. What level should I end up after each part, what should I receive, and what can I finally expect when it's all done?

I want to also be able to explain things if corrections are needed to my gm, and to help other players.


My interpretation

-complete part 1, apply first part sheet, become level two
-fourth sheet triggers, player gains 3xp 1000 gp and 4pp making them level 3
-player plays part 2 and completes it. They apply part 2 sheet and become level 4
-fourth sheet triggers, and this time gives 1,500 gp iirc 3xp and 4pp, making player level 5.
-player plays part 3 and completes. Applies part 3 sheet and levels to 6
-fourth triggers giving last benefits of 3xp 4pp 6,500 iirc and player is level 7.

This makes sense to me because it allows level one player to be legal for each part

1/5

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Rapanuii, that's not correct, but to tell you what is correct I will need more information.

Most important question: Are you playing this in Campaign Mode, or in standard PFS module mode? If everyone has new 1st level characters, and you plan to play the whole module cover to cover, then you want to play in Campaign mode.

If that is the case, ignore the chronicles until you are all done. Just play it as a home game; level your characters appropriately per the core rules and whatnot. Once you are all done with the module, you get your chronicle sheets. If you put 3 on the same character, you get the bonus (4th) one.

5/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

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The only time you can earn the fourth bonus chronicle from Dragon's Demand is to play it in Campaign "Homegame" Mode, and you need to apply all three of the normal chronicle sheets #1, #2 and #3 to one character to apply #4. In campaign mode you earn all of the chronicles when you finsih the entire module.

You only get one copy of #4 if you qualify, and you only apply the benefits of the boon once at either level 2, 4 or 6. This helps to ensure you can make use of most, if not all, of the credit at one time.

If you apply all the credit to a level 1 character you will end up with a level 4 character with one chronicle sheet in pregen stasis mode until you hit level 5. Applying the held chronicle immediately when you reach Level 5 (12xp) jumping you to level 6.

Dragons Demand 1 - gets you to level 2
Dragons Demand 4 - gets you to level 3
Dragons Demand 2 - gets you to level 4
Dragons Demand 3 - on hold until you reach level 5

If you apply credit to a level 2 or 3 character the progression looks like this.

Start at level 2
Dragons Demand 1 - gets you to level 3
Dragons Demand 2 - gets you to level 4
Dragons Demand 4 - gets you to level 5
Dragons Demand 3 - gets you to level 6

Start at level 3
Dragons Demand 1 - gets you to level 4
Dragons Demand 2 - gets you to level 5
Dragons Demand 3 - gets you to level 6
Dragons Demand 4 - gets you to level 7

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