Ranged Spellstrike


Advice


Two questions:

1. I've seen this ability mentioned a couple times as being part of a magus archetype. Could somebody please tell me which one?

2. If a non-archetype magus were to want to enchant a ranged weapon to have this ability, what would you say would be a fair price? Bear in mind that ranged combat would never be this magus' main specialty, I'd merely want to beef up his ranged damage on the very rare occasions when it might be needed.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's been mentioned as an archetype someone would like. None currently exist that I know of.


The Myrmadrch gets ranged Spellstrike.

Not sure what an appropriate wpn enchantment cost would be.

A level or 3 of Arcane Archer gets a similar power.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm not really big on building broad class abilities into weapons. Yes some exist, but it's not something that GM's should readily allow.


Ranged spellstrike is pretty impressive joined with regular spellstrike, so I'd make that a bit expensive. Let's say, treat it as a +3 bonus to the cost. It's like a spell storing weapon wich add choosing spell on the fly multiple times. Anyway I wouldn't allow it: the Myrmidarch is pretty unique, and allow that would be a decrease of the archetype's value.


Hrm. I can see not allowing it were it something that would see a lot of use. But as something that may come up maybe once every twenty sessions, if that? Mmm. I guess we just have different GMing styles. Nevertheless, I'll let my DM know what the prevailing opinions are and he can decide from there.

Thanks for pointing out the relevant archetype. :)


Lord Pendragon wrote:

Hrm. I can see not allowing it were it something that would see a lot of use. But as something that may come up maybe once every twenty sessions, if that? Mmm. I guess we just have different GMing styles. Nevertheless, I'll let my DM know what the prevailing opinions are and he can decide from there.

Thanks for pointing out the relevant archetype. :)

Hmmm. I see your point. But, you know, the "it's useful once every 20 sessions" argument is a no go, for me: If it's a cheap object to craft, you may be tempted to use it more often. But I'm thinking an alternate way: why don't you develop a magus spell instead? A spell that allow the same thing, something like true strike, but instead of a tuo hit bonus, it give you the ranged spellstrike. What do you think?


Hrm. That could work as well. I have actually played with spell research already in this game, so there's also a precedent. And it would require less rules alteration as well. :)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

hmm...
no offense, but it seems kind of like you're looking for some cheese... this ability already exists in two forms (both already mentioned- the myrmidarch magus archetype, and the arcane archer prestige class) and it appears you just want to get the power without having to invest any of the feats/replacements that it costs.

if you're willing to try to convince your GM to 'bend' the rules, spell storing would probably be the way to go- RAW, its melee weapons only (if memory serves) but it seems like the least egregious way to get what you're looking for (ask to put it in arrows- for 8k you get 50 arrows that you can stick 1 spell each in).


nate lange wrote:

hmm...

no offense, but it seems kind of like you're looking for some cheese... this ability already exists in two forms (both already mentioned- the myrmidarch magus archetype, and the arcane archer prestige class) and it appears you just want to get the power without having to invest any of the feats/replacements that it costs.

No offense, but maybe you should keep your judgments to yourself. If I were looking for cheese I'd be working on improving the tactic I'll be using 99.9999% of the time, which is melee Spellstrike/Spell Combat. My custom gunblade will be heavily enchanted over the course of the campaign, and I expect will be hitting +10 well ahead of the rest of the party. I certainly wouldn't be asking about ways to not use that weapon and instead use my completely unenchanted gun.

If I were looking for cheese I'd be asking for a feat that increases BAB. If I were looking for cheese I'd have tried to convince my DM to let my magus benefit from haste with Spell Combat, instead of deciding to drop the subject entirely after reading the opinions on these boards.

Instead, I was looking at a way to make my ranged attack, which I have used all of 1 round in the campaign so far (out of about 20 sessions of mostly combat), somewhat viable. It's about as far from cheese as you can get.

Quote:
if you're willing to try to convince your GM to 'bend' the rules...

Okay, I think I'm going to stop responding to you here. If you can't discuss the subject without continually insinuating that I'm an evil powergamer having nastybadfun, then please refrain from participating at all.


Blackstorm wrote:
But I'm thinking an alternate way: why don't you develop a magus spell instead? A spell that allow the same thing, something like true strike, but instead of a tuo hit bonus, it give you the ranged spellstrike. What do you think?

You know the more I think about spells in general, the more I am thinking I may not need spellstrike at all. I can always just keep a Scorching Ray on tap and reskin it to be a gun attack.

What I was/am most after, at the end of the day, was a way to make a ranged attack with my gun, when necessary, that didn't completely suck. My character wields a self-designed, self-built gunblade that I really love as a flavorful part of the character, and so I naturally figured that he'd be using the gun part of it to attack at range.

But really, it doesn't have to mechanically be an actually gun attack. I could always just cast Scorching Ray and describe it as several blasts from the gun, perhaps using magical bullets.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

i can tell from your reaction that my advice upset you. that was not my intention. i was just trying to point out that the mechanics for what you want are already in place- you just don't want to actually take them. if you want your ranged attack to be more viable do what everyone else does- spend a couple feats on it (that's as far from cheese as I think you can get). as for my use of "to 'bend' the rules," you have specifically asked (in question 2) for suggestions on a method to do something that is clearly outside RAW, what term would you prefer be used?


Lord Pendragon wrote:
If I were looking for cheese I'd have tried to convince my DM to let my magus benefit from haste with Spell Combat, instead of deciding to drop the subject entirely after reading the opinions on these boards.

The design team released a statement specifically addressing this issue a few days ago. It is completely within to rules to benefit from the extra attack while granted by haste while using spell combat.


pipedreamsam wrote:
The design team released a statement specifically addressing this issue a few days ago. It is completely within to rules to benefit from the extra attack while granted by haste while using spell combat.

It's funny, I read that thread about five minutes after I'd posted my reply in this one. Guess I can't use that example anymore, since haste is now legal. :)

Dark Archive

Not to be facetious, but isn't "ranged spellstrike" already in game?

Isn't is called a "spell?"

Sorry couldn't resist.

Dark Archive

Lord Pendragon wrote:

No offense, but maybe you should keep your judgments to yourself. If I were looking for cheese I'd be working on improving the tactic I'll be using 99.9999% of the time, which is melee Spellstrike/Spell Combat. My custom gunblade will be heavily enchanted over the course of the campaign, and I expect will be hitting +10 well ahead of the rest of the party. I certainly wouldn't be asking about ways to not use that weapon and instead use my completely unenchanted gun.

.....

Okay, I think I'm going to stop responding to you here. If you can't discuss the subject without continually insinuating that I'm an evil powergamer having nastybadfun, then please refrain from participating at all.

Okay I just couldn't stop thinking about this. You claim to not want cheese, yet you pick a fairly borderline cheese class, build a custom weapon that is presumably better than what is readily available (since you would have just chosen one otherwise,) and brag about hitting +10 before the rest of the party? Then you get hyper defensive when probed about it and stop responding?

If you aren't looking for cheese I'm not sure what you are looking for.

This is not a knock. Remember, cheese can be fun too! I love myself some cheese. Especially if everyone is on board the cheese-submarine.

If you are serious about it though and your GM is crazy enough to work with it, try the spell storing route. I also believe there is useful ammunition that can store a spell and explode on impact.

You know what would be cool? Spell combat with cone spells. Or spell combat with Web if you can get the ranges to work out right. Imagine a gun that can shoot a cone of glue. Kind of like the old wand of viscid globs before they nerfed it in 3e.

On that note, how about using alchemical stuff? Thunderstones, tanglefoot bags and such on your ammo? Is the gun more of a solid slug thrower or a blunderbuss?


Gnasher wrote:
Okay I just couldn't stop thinking about this. You claim to not want cheese, yet you pick a fairly borderline cheese class

Plenty on this forum--myself included--would consider this comment erroneous. There's nothing cheesy about the magus, presuming you avoid the arcane mark silliness, which I did. It made for a painful levels 1-3, but I am not playing Zorro, so it simply did not feel legit for me. I'm picking up the Close Range arcana at level 5 to allow me to use Ray of Frost, which is an acceptably non-cheesy spell for me to use when I need a way to pull off a resource-less spellstrike.

Quote:
build a custom weapon that is presumably better than what is readily available

It's basically a reskinned scimitar. Same stats, different look. I suppose the fact that I don't have to spend a move action drawing a ranged weapon if I want to shoot at someone is an advantage over a normal scimitar, though an infinitesimal one. I treat the gunblade as a double weapon, so no sharing of enchantments or whatnot. The blade and gun are enchanted separately which means if I do use the gun, I either have to expend a swift action and pool point to enhance it, or I'm firing with merely a masterwork weapon. And if I do enhance it with the arcane pool then swap back to the blade, I have to re-buff that or I'm using just a +1 scimitar equivalent.

So no, not really better than whats out there. Consider also that it cost me nearly 4000g to make, and I couldn't gather the materials until level 3 (was using a rapier until I could build it) and your argument looks more and more like an ignorant excuse to bash someone's playstyle that you know nothing about.

We won't even get into the Knowledge (Engineering) that I've maxed out as an accompanying part of the character's concept. I know that's high on every optimizer's cheese list.

Quote:
you get hyper defensive when probed about it and stop responding?

I stopped responding due to his attitude, which made snide remarks and assumptions about my playstyle. I'm responding to you because while you're making the same unfounded assumptions you've thus-far avoided being rude, mostly. Though claiming I'm seeking out cheese with no foundation for such accusations is still annoying. :p

Quote:
If you aren't looking for cheese I'm not sure what you are looking for.

I was looking for what folks might consider a fair cost for enchanting a ranged weapon to allow for a ranged spellstrike, for a character that doesn't have the class features, etc. to back it up. I gave some character background to explain that it's not something that will come up often, but something that I wanted for mostly RP reasons, but figured should still have a reasonable cost. Even RP stuff is rarely free. Instead I found many DMs were uncomfortable with the idea. A few posters suggested possible alternatives to get me what I wanted in a different way, which I appreciate. Others decided instead to attack my integrity as a player, which I do not.

Quote:
This is not a knock. Remember, cheese can be fun too! I love myself some cheese. Especially if everyone is on board the cheese-submarine.

Fair enough. For me, cheese is an insult, which may explain why I was so quick to defend myself. I don't like it, and actively avoid it. In 3.5 my fighters never wielded mercurial greatswords, and as I said above, my magus has never arcane marked his initials on a foe to get an extra attack.

Quote:
You know what would be cool? Spell combat with cone spells. Or spell combat with Web if you can get the ranges to work out right. Imagine a gun that can shoot a cone of glue. Kind of like the old wand of viscid globs before they nerfed it in 3e.

THis is definitely where my thinking has been headed after this thread. Re-imagining the way spells look to incorporate the gun, while not really changing any of the mechanics. This gets me what I wanted, a useful ranged attack that incorporates my gun, without asking the DM to do anything out of the ordinary at all.

Incidentally, my DM does work with me to give me most of what I want, but I refuse to abuse that trust. It's one of the reasons I started this thread, because I didn't want to just go to my DM and say "I'd like to give my gun the ability to ranged spellstrike, this is what it should cost" without checking my thoughts on cost and making sure I wasn't lowballing it unintentionally.

Quote:
On that note, how about using alchemical stuff? Thunderstones, tanglefoot bags and such on your ammo? Is the gun more of a solid slug thrower or a blunderbuss?

The gun is pistol-like, though of course it's built to support magical projectiles and modular so I can upgrade it later as neat ideas occur to me. A web bullet may be something to look into though. If I'm in a situation where I can only use ranged attacks--and that's what we're talking about, since if I can melee I'll be doing that--then there are no bad options.


You Can take a level of the spellslinger AT. Since you apperantly are gun based? To the question i also Think somthing around +3.

Shadow Lodge

If you're looking to shoot cones get a Dragon Pistol - shoots everything in a 15' cone. And might carry the ranged spellstrike to every target it hits.

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