Howdy folks!
Being that I've been invited to a live game of Carrion Crown...I've been enamored with creating a White Necromancer...who had left Pharasma in order to understand the undead better and how to fight them.
Ideally, I'd like to control and create undead...insert typical necromancer trope.
Human
Roll 4d6, drop lowest.
13 / 11 / 14 / 12 / 12 / 13
Any help?
Are you talking about the white necromancer third party class, or something more traditional?
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Howdy folks!
Being that I've been invited to a live game of Carrion Crown...I've been enamored with creating a White Necromancer...who had left Pharasma in order to understand the undead better and how to fight them.
Ideally, I'd like to control and create undead...insert typical necromancer trope.
Human
Roll 4d6, drop lowest.
13 / 11 / 14 / 12 / 12 / 13Any help?
How is that different from a non-White Necromancer ? ;-)
I created a character that is centered on the channeling of energy (negative primarily) and its many uses (including controlling and turning undead). I will post the admittedly cheese-flavored build if you're interested.
I created a character that is centered on the channeling of energy (negative primarily) and its many uses (including controlling and turning undead). I will post the admittedly cheese-flavored build if you're interested.
Sure!
Are you talking about the white necromancer third party class, or something more traditional?
Honestly, a good like necromancer. As for the 3rd party class...no, DM sadly doesn't like 3rd party material ( can't blame him ). I'm sure there's ways to go Divine or Arcane, but I'm here just get an idea of what might work.
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If you want to control and create undead, you're not a white necromancer. You're just a normal necromancer. :P
If you want to make an ACTUAL white necromancer, I recommend making a witch. You get many of the big necro spells such as enervation, fear, and various curses, plus you can get a fair chunk of curatives and the like as well. Many of the witch hexes are perfect flavour as well (such as Retribution and Evil Eye for example).
My white necromancer witch is a Hedge Witch for more curative abilities. Even if you want to animate dead, there's always the Gravewalker, too.
Dirge bard fits well, too. Unlike all other necromancers, which are ALWAYS evil or "black" by definition in D&D, they get to create skeletons that are explicitely called out not to be evil.
When your DM is generous he/she could even let you take evangelist cleric and swap the sermonic performances with those of dirge bard. Or in the case of a sorcerer the maestro bloodline and switch those :-)
Or you could play with interesting moral boundaries. A relatively easy way to make an "innocent" necromancer would be to have him choose to only turn nonsentient creatures into undead.
I mean, pathfinder has eating sentient creatures as a major taboo worthy of turning random people into huge CR creatures (I particularly like their take on the Windigo), but eating an animal might only make a druid mad. Similar concept. There would be few tears shed if you decided to....recycle.... a rampaging owlbear that the locals had asked you to get rid of.
So is it evil is no "people" get hurt?
Howdy folks!
Being that I've been invited to a live game of Carrion Crown...I've been enamored with creating a White Necromancer...who had left Pharasma in order to understand the undead better and how to fight them.
Ideally, I'd like to control and create undead...insert typical necromancer trope.
Human
Roll 4d6, drop lowest.
13 / 11 / 14 / 12 / 12 / 13Any help?
Ouch those stats suck. Looking at it is painful. Make a party anchor, get killed and reroll the character you actually want to play. Use the undead lord to get a skeleton companion that is your old character.
Ouch those stats suck. Looking at it is painful. Make a party anchor, get killed and reroll the character you actually want to play. Use the undead lord to get a skeleton companion that is your old character.Human
Roll 4d6, drop lowest.
13 / 11 / 14 / 12 / 12 / 13Any help?
I have to agree with notabot. Making any successful kind of caster with these stats will be next to impossible.
These stats basically add up to a poorly optimized 16-point buy with no dump stats. Normally rolling 4d6D1 will get you the equivalent of a 25-30 point buy, though possibly not optimized.
I'd ask your GM to either:
A) let you reroll, or
B) dump a stat or two as if this is point-buy.
Rerolling is probably your best bet.
As to creating a "party anchor" you could make a guy with the "rich parents" trait and let him get killed, since it lets the other party members take his stuff.
Peet
I agree on the stats.
It is not as much a problem when your features scale with level instead of just casting stat, i.e. like in the case of the dirge bard or the hexes of a witch ;-)
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I created a character that is centered on the channeling of energy (negative primarily) and its many uses (including controlling and turning undead). I will post the admittedly cheese-flavored build if you're interested.Sure!
Here it comes.
Human Cleric of Pharasma with some dips. True Neutral (for the Versatile channeler feat)
Separatist archetype to get the Undead subdomain, but only after the GM let me use Death's kiss as a swift action. You can do away with the archetype and keep the Death domain as is, especially if you have access to a wand of CLW at low levels (which we don't).
20 point build :
STR 7
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 16+2
1 - Cleric 1 (Death, Healing), negative energy Channel, feats = Selective Channeling, Improved Channel
2 - Oracle of Bones 1 (Black Blooded), revelation = Command Undead feat (taken earlier than I originally thought because of lack of CLW wands)
3 - Wizard (Necromancer-Undead subschool) with familiar (scorpion for +4 to Initiative), school feat = Turn Undead, free wizard feat = Spell Focus (Necromancy) instead of Scribe Scroll (PFS-like restriction on crafting feats), feat = Ability Focus (Channel)
4 - Cleric 2, ability increase = CHA
5 - Cleric 3, feat = Versatile Channeler
6 - Cleric 4
7 - Cleric 5, feat = Undead Master (I go with the interpretation that the bonus applies to controlling undead too, as it makes little sense otherwise)
8 - Cleric 6, ability increase = CHA
9 - Cleric 7, feat = Quick Channel
I did not plan it further as the campaign ends at 9th level.
For great info, check Brewer's Guide to Undeath. It is a very valuable asset.
How can you be "white" and cast evil spells? Seems that you are bending quite a bit there. You either walk the path of night or are the enemy of it. You cant call yourself the enemy on one hand and cast evil spells on the next.
I honestly thought this was a thread about the KQ White Necro class upon just reading the topic, but hey, the more you know...
Ask your DM if you can use the old Oracle Juju mystery. It lets you create intelligent undead with the same alignment as you, or unintelligent ones at NN.
If that's out of the question... well, it's a shame that "good" Necromancy is such a hot-button topic. Depending on how you word your arguments, you might be able to get away with it (but be wary of the Paladin, Inquisitor, and other Pharasmians. You already know they won't be comfortable with the path you walk.)
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Just a heads up that the The White Necromancer will soon be released as an updated and expanded New Paths installment from Kobold Press.
You can learn a bit more here:
The Expanded White Necromancer Design Blog
And those stats are why I never have my players roll stats
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Your link is misformatted. I fixed it in my quote.Just a heads up that the The White Necromancer will soon be released as an updated and expanded New Paths installment from Kobold Press.
You can learn a bit more here:The Expanded White Necromancer Design Blog
Well, that's a bummer!
Thank you sir!
not to beat a dead horse, but since your trying to animate it...
your description is not of a 'white' necromancer- you really just want to play a necromancer that isn't completely evil (that's not the same thing).
for a white necromancer, think about an emberkin aasimar (they already have a proclivity to sort of be torn between light and darkness) wizard with the necromancy school. you should turn, but you might be able to get a way with controlling undead if you're focusing on wrestling them away from evil control (and then laying them to rest)- once you start using undead minions you're not really white anymore.
that said, if you really want to toe the line (and your GM is on board) the aforementioned dirge bard and juju oracle have abilities that allow you to have undead that are technically not evil.
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if youre planning to play a "good guy necromancer", here's a few general rules i find that help keep those pesky paladin swords from poking out through your back:
-conjure your undead or tear them from enemy control, don't raise them from existing corpses (pretty sure there's ways to do this).
-non-humanoid skeletons are generally seen as not as evil--so using them might be a bit more acceptable (also big cat skeletons with pounce are nice)
-keep your minions in extradimensional storage when not in use (both for ease of travel and to keep folks from noticing a skeleton parade behind you)
-hire folks to give you their bodies when they die (they get a stipend every so often to better their lives, you get their bones when they're done with them. if you use old folks, have said stipend sent to their family anonymously)
-if you MUST animate a humanoid corpse without access to either of the above, use speak with dead (if possible) afterward to apologize (generally a "hey, i used your body to save the town, hope you dont mind."), then destroy it and have it buried again with proper last rites once it's purpose is finished.
-show respect for the dead. seriously, they're breaking their backs helping you out, and should be appreciated as such.
-dont dress the part. no skull motifs, no dark and edgy brooding about how fleeting existence is, it will only draw more attention/ire from the local clergy.
-if anyone asks, youre a doctor--if they say necromancer, you correct them with "Malconvoker" or somesuch and stick to it, since good or evil, 'necromancer' is generally heard as "always terrible smite on sight", regardless of intentions or deeds otherwise.
-do good things with your undead when out of sight/during downtime: till fields, aid construction work, generally make the local populace's lives better (though again, 'out of sight' is key here, since some folks would kinda freak out knowing that some skeletons helped build their church).
also, you can do all kinds of fluffy things when not in combat--like using speak with dead to bring closure to families.
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these are just suggestions though, obviously.
Hey everyone - just wanted to let you know that The Expanded White Necromancer is now out! Please check it out by clicking ye olde link below :)
Bought it and love it! I made a ghost elf Grave-bound white necromancer as a NPC for my next gaming session.
With this and the Minotaur Games Graveling supplement, I'll hopefully add some different twists to our game.
I have been toying with a concept for a "good" necromancer that would take GM approval, some houseruling, and some GM control. Since I usually play PFS, I will probably never get to use it.
Basically, the idea is someone whose job is to give people who die "too soon" or "in a state of sin" a chance to atone for their deeds before going to their final judgment. Any undead that he creates or controls would be only for as long as the GM decides it takes for them to "make amends", then the character has to lay them to rest (not just destroy them).
The necromancer can't let any undead he controls perform any evil acts, and he has to repair any collateral damage they do. Most importantly, he can't let any of his undead make more undead, not even accidently. (So for instance, if his ghoul gives someone ghoul fever during a fight, he has to make sure the person gets cured or at least is not going to die from it.)
I was thinking the build would be a cleric of Pharasma or possibly Sarenrae (with the Separatist archetype), maybe a Sineater Inquisitor.
The best choice here is the old Juju mystery oracle assuming you can get your DM to use the pre-errata version of their Spirit Vessels revelation that allows you to animate mindless undead as neutral and intelligent undead with an alignment that matches your own. Spirit Vessels also ups your control pool to 6HD per caster level.
The next best in my opinion is the Gravewalker Witch, which gives you Bonethrall at level 1 and the extremely powerful Possess Undead at 8th. You also get the two best necromancer spells (Command Undead and Animate Dead) at their earliest spell level and both on one class. All in all very solid.
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Hey everyone - just wanted to let you know that The Expanded White Necromancer is now out! Please check it out by clicking ye olde link below :)
Bought it and love it! I made a ghost elf Grave-bound white necromancer as a NPC for my next gaming session.
With this and the Minotaur Games Graveling supplement, I'll hopefully add some different twists to our game.
The Expanded White Necromancer was #1 for the second week on Paizo's Top Ten Downloads from Other Companies!!!
I've been playing around with this idea of white necromancers too. I've been thinking of an idea where the necromancer uses on hand undead to destroy other undead, and then when he is done, he later controls them and sets up some sort of sure way to destroy them when he's not busy/ doesn't need undead to defend village from other undead
Ok, I am playing a dhampir white necromancer in Carrion Crown. We are about to begin. I took a few optional dhampir capabilities for being well-rounded and style such as Heir to Undying Nobility and Vampiric Empathy. Of lesser interest, I grabbed the traits Lesser Noble and Born in the Light for style and to remove the -1 to Perception checks in bright light. Keep in mind I'm playing this campaign with two Paladins, and Inquisitor and a Saranrae cleric, all of which save the inquisitor are aasimars, lol. It'll make for great roleplaying. That being said, I dropped my highest stat in Cha and second highest in Dex. I grabbed detect magic, ray of frost, disrupt undead, and message for cantrips and Mage armor and cure light wounds for 1st. I picked up the major drawback Unathletic for the feat Natural Charmer, but I'm drawing a blank on my original 1st level feat atm. Please forgive. Here's the rest of the build as far as feats and spells go through to twentieth level:
Feats:
3rd: Spell focus (Necromancy)
5th: Augment Undead
7th: Undead Master
9th: Silent Spell
11th: Necrotic Spell (White Necro)
13th: Siphon Spell (White Necro)
15th: Ectoplasmic Spell
17th: Empower Spell
19th: Maximize Spell
Spells known:
2nd: mending
3rd: protection from evil
4th: detect poison and lesser animate dead (change out a spell if necessary)
5th: inflict light wounds, command undead and invisibility
6th: arcane mark and dance of the dead (change out a spell if necessary)
7th: ray of enfeeblement, inflict moderate wounds, and halt undead
8th: light, animate dead (change out a spell if necessary)
9th: spectral hand, inflict serious wounds and greater invisibility
10th: dancing lights and greater bone shards (change out a spell if necessary)
11th: silence, fly, inflict critical wounds, chain of bones
12th: create undead (change out a spell if necessary)
13th: death ward, undead anatomy II, and harm
14th: destruction (change out a spell if necessary)
15th: breath of life, undead anatomy III, and control undead
16th: create greater undead (change out a spell if necessary)
17th: heal and undead anatomy IV
18th: true resurrection (change out a spell if necessary)
19th: polar ray and energy drain
20th: wail of the banshee (change out a spell if necessary)
Ok, so to answer some questions that came up earlier: Why the white necromancer? One reason is what I included in the the party description. Secondly is that the white necromancer is not capped by HD in how many undead he can "befriend" to assist him in the destruction of the evil in Ustalav. Limited spell lists, spells known and spells per day are offset by that. I also went grave-bound archetype because it's AWESOME! Is it the best necromancer build possible? Not necessarily, there are a lot more cheese-filled builds that I have shattered campaigns with but this class is very balanced and has a lot of style. Great job on its creation!