Iron Gods: Theories? Ideas? Suggestions?


Iron Gods

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TheLoneCleric wrote:
I's say the 2nd season was good right up till the VERY end. Keep in mind they tried to cram about I dunno 2 seaons worth of story into 1/2 a standard season. Honestly they didn't need to answer how or why. Leaving it a mystery would have been fine with me.

The problem is that the writers originally intended three seasons. The show's popularity in Japan wasn't enough to continue after the first, and Cartoon Network's second season wasn't popular enough for them to justify funding the third.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Cthulhudrew wrote:
When you made the offer to James Sutter, and he had to refuse, did he scream "KHAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!"? :)

He might have screamed JAAAAAACOBS!

Liberty's Edge

On the topic of chases, Mr. Jacobs stated somewhere that Mad Max 2 was being used as a primary inspiration so I sure hope there are chases in this. Chases with post-apoc muscle cars. Mad Max and Mad Max 2 are two of my all time favorite movies so please make my girlfriend and I squee at least once in this AP from the Mad Max inspired awesomeness.

Also, before anyone mentions it, Beyond Thunderdome doesn't count as a Mad Max film on account of how g+#$&@n terrible it was.


No robot vs kaiju....

But will there be airships? Please...let there be airships!!

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
Espagnoll wrote:
James, the AP will be mainly Numerian centric or at certain point there will be a visit to another world on Golarion's solar system, like Aballon or Verces?.
Iron Gods is set entirely in Numeria.

You're breaking my heart, James. Huge missed opportunity.


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Hah. Airships.

Third-Level Consumer Products Corporation POLYHEAT Personal Survival Stove! Generates 40-40000btu/min for up to 200 years in normal operation!

Just add air-bag!

Random fan nonsense follows;

The Silver Mount is trying to rebuild itself. Various bits of are either in Golarion orbit or are long-period comets orbiting the sun. But the key systems are still working! Good news, right? Automated repair systems are enacting emergency on-site resource gathering and system replacement. A massive automated resource mining system has been self-assembling under the mount. Automated factories are steadily producing autonomous multipurpose drones. Initial assessments of crew casualties were greatly overstated - Turns out that someone survived to activate the crew-command systems! If only the Silver Mount could figure out what language they were using...

Eitherway, I think it would be interesting if the actual crashed ship is operating on its own complex agenda. The Technic league managed to get hold of some children's auto-didactic instructional toys. From the toys they learned the bare minimums of what the Silver Mount is (age appropriate for children 4-8 years of age). They found the some Crew IFF transceiver units and figured out how to control some of the core systems at a very basic level. The Silver Mount, badly damaged, thinks the Technic League are a bunch of children from the Crew and has essentially detailed robot teddy-bears to follow them around and take care of them. In the mean time it's trying to put itself back together while fending off the insanely hostile local wildlife.

Actually - As an NPC some kind of robotic, intelligent teaching and instructional toy could be hilarious. Carefully explaining to the 'kids'/party how to operate simple technologies and gently reminding them that even though they're having a very difficult time with very simple concepts they're still special and loved.

You could also play with the idea that "Computers do exactly what they're told to". The Silver Mount technology is easy to use. You just need to learn the programming language. And base 7 mathematics. And user interfaces designed for people with three arms and a vocal range that extends into ultrasound. The point being - the Tech works just fine, but you have to figure out how to ask it to do what you want and the DM is encouraged to play up literal genie as much as possible.

"FIRE!"

"Further parameters required."

"Fire the... uh... Laser!"

"Further parameters required."

"Fire the laser at that guy!"

"Target parameters are insufficiently specific. Further parameters required."

"Fire the laser at the... uh... Orc. The third orc on the left. With the wolf skull device on his shield!"

"Assessing... Targeting parameter definitions are unknown. Please update targeting parameter definitions. Please define the following: ORC. WOLF. SKULL."

"ARRRRGH! Stupid starfish aliens!"

"Error: Please restate your request."


James Jacobs wrote:
Oh... and it's Sutter, not Stutter. Although that's an amusing typo.

Oh my, I had nicknamed the poor man by accident.

I guess this AP will offer stats for possible new playable character races.
By the way, being this AP very Heavy Metal like, could you hire Ron Spencer, Simon Bisley or Richard Corben for do the inner art or monster art? And if Mr. Sutter can't join the project, can I suggest hire China Mieville for do some writing?

James, you did mention Expedition to the Barrier Peaks as the main source of inspiration, but I bet there will be references to other modules like Temple of the Frog and City of the Gods. Also, If I am not wrong, two artifacts from the TSR era belonged to the Metamorphosis Alpha setting: the Machine of Lum the Mad (a magic tainted terrformation system with a corrupted A.I.) and the Mighty Servant of Leuk-O (a power armor very influenced by those which appear in Heinlein's Starship Troopers). Sure this kind of technology will be found in this AP as artifact level magical items which makes me guess if Ultimate Campaign rules will be necessary for this AP.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Joshua Goudreau wrote:

On the topic of chases, Mr. Jacobs stated somewhere that Mad Max 2 was being used as a primary inspiration so I sure hope there are chases in this. Chases with post-apoc muscle cars. Mad Max and Mad Max 2 are two of my all time favorite movies so please make my girlfriend and I squee at least once in this AP from the Mad Max inspired awesomeness.

Also, before anyone mentions it, Beyond Thunderdome doesn't count as a Mad Max film on account of how g@&$!+n terrible it was.

All 3 Mad Max movies are inspiration for part 2 of the adventure path... but not in the car-chase scenes. More in the way those three movies had some really unique and outlandish gangs of bandits.

I'm not planning to have car chases, or in fact cars at all, in Iron Gods.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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baronbloodbath wrote:

No robot vs kaiju....

But will there be airships? Please...let there be airships!!

Also very very unlikely, since airships aren't really a thing at all in Numeria.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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The White Sorcerer wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Espagnoll wrote:
James, the AP will be mainly Numerian centric or at certain point there will be a visit to another world on Golarion's solar system, like Aballon or Verces?.
Iron Gods is set entirely in Numeria.
You're breaking my heart, James. Huge missed opportunity.

Folks will need to manage their expectations. This is not the "Let's put everything we can about technology and aliens and Distant Worlds into one Adventure Path!"

That's not a good way to go about things.

You can define something as much by what you put into it as you can by what you don't.

Furthermore... Numeria is one of the more often asked about regions of the world, yet it's arguably the part of the Inner Sea Region we've said the LEAST about. I'd rather not leave the area when there's so much to say now that we're finally going there.

In fact... at this point in time... we've said MUCH more about other planets in the system than we have about Numeria, and that's gotta change.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Espagnoll wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Oh... and it's Sutter, not Stutter. Although that's an amusing typo.

Oh my, I had nicknamed the poor man by accident.

I guess this AP will offer stats for possible new playable character races.
By the way, being this AP very Heavy Metal like, could you hire Ron Spencer, Simon Bisley or Richard Corben for do the inner art or monster art? And if Mr. Sutter can't join the project, can I suggest hire China Mieville for do some writing?

James, you did mention Expedition to the Barrier Peaks as the main source of inspiration, but I bet there will be references to other modules like Temple of the Frog and City of the Gods. Also, If I am not wrong, two artifacts from the TSR era belonged to the Metamorphosis Alpha setting: the Machine of Lum the Mad (a magic tainted terrformation system with a corrupted A.I.) and the Mighty Servant of Leuk-O (a power armor very influenced by those which appear in Heinlein's Starship Troopers). Sure this kind of technology will be found in this AP as artifact level magical items which makes me guess if Ultimate Campaign rules will be necessary for this AP.

Nope. As with other APs, we have no plans to offer new playable character races as part of the AP.

Temple of the Frog and City of the Gods did indeed have heavy technological themes, but I never really got to check those adventures out until well after college while I was working at WotC, so they don't hold NEAR the level of nostalgia for me that Expedition (one of the first modules I ever bought, back in the early '80s, from my favorite bookstore in Fort Brag, CA called "The Cheshire Cat") holds for me.

Dark Archive

James I bought that module when it first came out - was it just me or did they charge a little more for that module because it was one of the first if not the first "super-sized" module?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Espagnoll wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Oh... and it's Sutter, not Stutter. Although that's an amusing typo.

Oh my, I had nicknamed the poor man by accident.

I guess this AP will offer stats for possible new playable character races.
By the way, being this AP very Heavy Metal like, could you hire Ron Spencer, Simon Bisley or Richard Corben for do the inner art or monster art? And if Mr. Sutter can't join the project, can I suggest hire China Mieville for do some writing?

James, you did mention Expedition to the Barrier Peaks as the main source of inspiration, but I bet there will be references to other modules like Temple of the Frog and City of the Gods. Also, If I am not wrong, two artifacts from the TSR era belonged to the Metamorphosis Alpha setting: the Machine of Lum the Mad (a magic tainted terrformation system with a corrupted A.I.) and the Mighty Servant of Leuk-O (a power armor very influenced by those which appear in Heinlein's Starship Troopers). Sure this kind of technology will be found in this AP as artifact level magical items which makes me guess if Ultimate Campaign rules will be necessary for this AP.

Nope. As with other APs, we have no plans to offer new playable character races as part of the AP.

Temple of the Frog and City of the Gods did indeed have heavy technological themes, but I never really got to check those adventures out until well after college while I was working at WotC, so they don't hold NEAR the level of nostalgia for me that Expedition (one of the first modules I ever bought, back in the early '80s, from my favorite bookstore in Fort Brag, CA called "The Cheshire Cat") holds for me.

what about Changelings in AP#43:) also as an original skeptic of this AP i must say i was wrong and can't wait to see whats in store:) and in my opinion (for what its worth) the adventure paths keep getting better as you guys get more under your belt, tho even the older ones stand the test of time.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Auxmaulous wrote:
James I bought that module when it first came out - was it just me or did they charge a little more for that module because it was one of the first if not the first "super-sized" module?

Expedition has gone through several reprints, and several changes. Assume that was the one you're talking about?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

captain yesterday wrote:
what about Changelings in AP#43:) also as an original skeptic of this AP i must say i was wrong and can't wait to see whats in store:) and in my opinion (for what its worth) the adventure paths keep getting better as you guys get more under your belt, tho even the older ones stand the test of time.

There's always exceptions.

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
Auxmaulous wrote:
James I bought that module when it first came out - was it just me or did they charge a little more for that module because it was one of the first if not the first "super-sized" module?
Expedition has gone through several reprints, and several changes. Assume that was the one you're talking about?

First print run, black border with module and booklet. Very early 80's - when did it come out 80-81? I think it was 10.99 vs. the usual 6.99 modules were selling for (they started at 5.99 in the very beginning).

Expedition to the Barrier_Peaks

BTW, the starfish-maw plant on the EO's cover was never actually in the module. It would be nice if it appeared somewhere in the IG AP.

Maybe?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Auxmaulous wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Auxmaulous wrote:
James I bought that module when it first came out - was it just me or did they charge a little more for that module because it was one of the first if not the first "super-sized" module?
Expedition has gone through several reprints, and several changes. Assume that was the one you're talking about?

First print run, black border with module and booklet. Very early 80's - when did it come out 80-81? I think it was 10.99 vs. the usual 6.99 modules were selling for (they started at 5.99 in the very beginning).

Expedition to the Barrier_Peaks

BTW, the starfish-maw plant on the EO's cover was never actually in the module. It would be nice if it appeared somewhere in the IG AP.

Maybe?

Yup; that was the copy I bought, and the same copy now lives on my desk here in my office for inspiration.

I'm pretty sure that the critter on the cover was supposed to be a wolf in sheep's clothing that ended up looking very different. I've always been intrigued by what that creature could be, but since that art belongs to Wizards of the Coast today... I'll leave it to them to create stats for it.

And yup; they did indeed charge more for it. In fact, back in the day, there really was no set price for modules. Most were like 6 bucks or so IIRC, but a few like White Plume Mountain were less, and some like Expedition or Tamoachan were more.

Didn't matter to me, of course. I bought all of them.


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James Jacobs wrote:
All 3 Mad Max movies are inspiration for part 2 of the adventure path... but not in the car-chase scenes. More in the way those three movies had some really unique and outlandish gangs of bandits.

And now I want to create a monk character with scars in the shape of the Big Dipper the Stair of Stars on his chest.

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
All 3 Mad Max movies are inspiration for part 2 of the adventure path... but not in the car-chase scenes. More in the way those three movies had some really unique and outlandish gangs of bandits.

I suspected you were probably referring to the character and world design aesthetic when you made the comment. Oh well, I'll just have to include my own chases.


Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
All 3 Mad Max movies are inspiration for part 2 of the adventure path... but not in the car-chase scenes. More in the way those three movies had some really unique and outlandish gangs of bandits.
And now I want to create a monk character with scars in the shape of the Big Dipper the Stair of Stars on his chest.

:)

Spoiler:
Atatatatatatatatatata!!!!!!!!!!!


James Jacobs wrote:
Joshua Goudreau wrote:

On the topic of chases, Mr. Jacobs stated somewhere that Mad Max 2 was being used as a primary inspiration so I sure hope there are chases in this. Chases with post-apoc muscle cars. Mad Max and Mad Max 2 are two of my all time favorite movies so please make my girlfriend and I squee at least once in this AP from the Mad Max inspired awesomeness.

Also, before anyone mentions it, Beyond Thunderdome doesn't count as a Mad Max film on account of how g@&$!+n terrible it was.

All 3 Mad Max movies are inspiration for part 2 of the adventure path... but not in the car-chase scenes. More in the way those three movies had some really unique and outlandish gangs of bandits.

I'm not planning to have car chases, or in fact cars at all, in Iron Gods.

As a longtime fan of all three movies, and proud to have travelled some of the actual roads and living 5 minutes away from the location used for part of the outcast kid's home I absolutely welcome this for Numeria.

Personally I'm non-plussed by MM1, but the costumes and dieselpunk bandit gangs of Mad Max 2 and Beyond Thunderdome influenced a generation of culture. Between Mad Max 2, Beyond Thunderdome and Duran Duran's Wild Boys (as well as seminal post-apoc books like Waiting for the End of the World, Starman's Son, Heroes and Villains - actually on the high school curriculum in Western Australia in the 80's) I never had a hope growing up in Australia in the 80's but that I'd end up living in the bush wearing a mix of leather and animal skins, collecting crossbows, driving a beaten up Landcruiser and building geodesic domes...

Actually, when playing B2 back in the day we stopped midway during the session to watch Mad Max 2 on VHS - after that my Elf grabbed a crossbow.

Numeria FTW

Oh, and for my US friends, always try to find the movies in their original, Australian accent glory. While in the US in the 1992 I saw Mad Max dubbed into American. It totally destroyed it.


Freehold DM wrote:
Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
All 3 Mad Max movies are inspiration for part 2 of the adventure path... but not in the car-chase scenes. More in the way those three movies had some really unique and outlandish gangs of bandits.
And now I want to create a monk character with scars in the shape of the Big Dipper the Stair of Stars on his chest.

:)

** spoiler omitted **

Who runs Starfall?

A pity there will be not chariot pull by cyborg megafauna vs. antigrav bikes chases.


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Oh. And Salute of the Jugger is also a favorite... ;)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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For the record... I have a special place in my heart for "Beyond Thunderdome." Since it was the first PG-13 movie I saw, on my own, in the theater. And it's EASILY the most quotable of the 3 movies!

Still like Road Warrior best.

Dark Archive

I hated Thunderdome when it came out, as it seemed to tone down the violence and was too family friendly when compared to MM or RW. As the years have gone by and after re-watching the movie several times (and buying it on DVD, plus the extended soundtrack) I really do like the film. In many ways it's the truest comparison to a heroic PA rpg adventure in a film that is out there.

Don't get me wrong, my allegiance will always belong to the Lord Humongous and the Toecutter, but IDK - maybe the fact that the factions in MM:BT are not so black and white makes for a good change up in the series. MM and RW had some incredible NPCs (c'mon, Johnny the Boy and Bubba Zinetti, Wez, Toady..all great guys). But the spread of NPCs in BT that were from all sorts of PA factions: Savannah from the tribals, Ironbar as lead hench for Aunti, Master/Blaster and even a prisoner - Pigkiller. Several good NPCs in fact (from a GM perspective).

I hope Fury Road and Furiosa are not trash.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
All 3 Mad Max movies are inspiration for part 2 of the adventure path... but not in the car-chase scenes. More in the way those three movies had some really unique and outlandish gangs of bandits.
And now I want to create a monk character with scars in the shape of the Big Dipper the Stair of Stars on his chest.

:)

** spoiler omitted **

You are Already Dead(tm)

In Ten Seconds your Head Will Explode.

P.S. Raoh was the best.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Auxmaulous wrote:

I hated Thunderdome when it came out, as it seemed to tone down the violence and was too family friendly when compared to MM or RW. As the years have gone by and after re-watching the movie several times (and buying it on DVD, plus the extended soundtrack) I really do like the film. In many ways it's the truest comparison to a heroic PA rpg adventure in a film that is out there.

Don't get me wrong, my allegiance will always belong to the Lord Humongous and the Toecutter, but IDK - maybe the fact that the factions in MM:BT are not so black and white makes for a good change up in the series. MM and RW had some incredible NPCs (c'mon, Johnny the Boy and Bubba Zinetti, Wez, Toady..all great guys). But the spread of NPCs in BT that were from all sorts of PA factions: Savannah from the tribals, Ironbar as lead hench for Aunti, Master/Blaster and even a prisoner - Pigkiller. Several good NPCs in fact (from a GM perspective).

I hope Fury Road and Furiosa are not trash.

The thing I love about all three movies is that while they're all part of the same overall storyline and character... they're all VERY different movies with their own internal themes and structures. They don't feel like they're retreading the same old ground. Like the best Godzilla and the best James Bond movies, they all stand on their own and have their own goals.


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Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
All 3 Mad Max movies are inspiration for part 2 of the adventure path... but not in the car-chase scenes. More in the way those three movies had some really unique and outlandish gangs of bandits.
And now I want to create a monk character with scars in the shape of the Big Dipper the Stair of Stars on his chest.

Hmmm, now I want to stat up a kobold-built and -run methane power plant.

Liberty's Edge

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Oh, and for my US friends, always try to find the movies in their original, Australian accent glory. While in the US in the 1992 I saw Mad Max dubbed...

I was so happy when I finally got the original voice version of Mad Max on DVD. I grew up watching that movie on VHS and fell in love with it all over again. Toecutter is so much scarier with that smooth voice the actor has. A man who looks and acts as barbaric as he does should not sound so pretty.

[/threadjack]

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
The thing I love about all three movies is that while they're all part of the same overall storyline and character... they're all VERY different movies with their own internal themes and structures. They don't feel like they're retreading the same old ground. Like the best Godzilla and the best James Bond movies, they all stand on their own and have their own goals.

They are all very different but RW in 1981 created a boom of knock-offs that I eagerly devoured as a child. BT is kind of like those knock offs to me, it may have the same actor playing a character with the same name but the tone and story (if you can claim there is one) is very different than the first two. It even has a chase scene climax that is directly referencing the last movie. In MM we see max's fall from grace to a bleak, broken man. In the second we see his redemption to the selfless hero he was before Goose was killed and his descent began. BT has none of that character arc.

Anyway, I'll stop derailing the thread with my analysis of the films (I can't help it, I was a lit and film major) and just give a hearty 'huzzah!' that Iron Gods will be pulling in some of the atheistic from a couple of my favorite movies. When I read the bit about Mad Max being an inspiration I just threw up my hands and gave up even trying to find reasons to not buy the AP.


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Two core races enter! One core race leaves! Two core races enter! One core race leaves!

Dark Archive

Freehold DM wrote:
Two core races enter! One core race leaves! Two core races enter! One core race leaves!

This Blaster! Twenty core races enter, only him leave!

Grand Lodge

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man now i want to do a halfling summoner with a large biped edilon

Liberty's Edge

I'm pretty sure I just derailed another thread with a Mad Max rant.

*facepalm*


After reading Mythic Realms I guess one of the 50s sci-fi movies this AP will do reference to is The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
I guess if one of the modules is going to do references to a certain movie which script was written by Ray Bradbury.

The Exchange

Break a Deal, Spin the Wheel.

Hmmm. So part 2 is inspired by MadMax. I can get behind that. I loved the MM series of movies.

James,

What would you sare are the guiding inspirations for the AP besides Thundarr, Max Max, and Barrier Peaks?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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TheLoneCleric wrote:

Break a Deal, Spin the Wheel.

Hmmm. So part 2 is inspired by MadMax. I can get behind that. I loved the MM series of movies.

James,

What would you sare are the guiding inspirations for the AP besides Thundarr, Max Max, and Barrier Peaks?

Other large inspirations would be Dan Simmons's Hyperion books, several alien-invasion movies from the 50s', and Robert E. Howard.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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James Jacobs wrote:
Other large inspirations would be Dan Simmons's Hyperion books...

Oh, very excited now. Among my favorites of all time.


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Once again, I shall post my hopes for a Shrike bloodline. XD

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Dan Simmons' books have been inspiring Golarion for some time, in fact. Particularly in the writings of staffers named "James."

For example... there's a Shrike River in the Stolen Lands...

Liberty's Edge

I've had a copy of Hyperion sitting on my shelf forever, I guess I should get around to reading it finally.


Cthulhudrew wrote:
Once again, I shall post my hopes for a Shrike bloodline. XD

I'd kill for a newtype bloodline myself.


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Conan + Aliens. Awesome!


Joshua Goudreau wrote:
I've had a copy of Hyperion sitting on my shelf forever, I guess I should get around to reading it finally.

!

Never... read... words... failing... me... :(

(Much as I enjoy the whole Hyperion and Endymion Cantos, for my money, Hyperion is the best by far, and can stand on its own. And if you like the Hyperion Cantos, you might check out Dan Simmons' Ilium and Olympos, which are a pretty interesting sci-fi/Greek mythology pastiche.)


Although to be honest, Olympos was a huge let down for me, and I kind of felt the author's politics bleeding into the writing for that volume.

The Exchange

MMCJawa wrote:
Although to be honest, Olympos was a huge let down for me, and I kind of felt the author's politics bleeding into the writing for that volume.

Agreed. Brain eater stepped in.


True, MMCJawa. I barely recall Olympos, actually, except for thinking that it had an unsatisfying conclusion. Mostly, I liked the blend of sci-fi with Greek mythology, and feel it is a good sort of comparison to what a Numeria AP might be like.

Liberty's Edge

Well, given these votes of confidence, Hyperion is going into my read queue.


I have to raise a lone dissenting voice. Although Dan Simmons is a terrifyingly good writer, he's also a terrible bigot, having been quietly bashing Islam since well before 9/11 and not so quietly at all afterwards.

(You may argue that one of the characters of Hyperion proves otherwise. I suggest you take a look at Kassad's background. In the nearly-post-scarcity future wonderland of the early Hyperion novels, all the Islamic peoples live in slums on Mars for no readily believable reason, and Kassad is special because he, almost alone, had the will and the desire to get out. Blech.)


I must say I would like to see the Technic League as a mix of Isaac Asimov's Foundation and the monks from Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr.
I already mentioned another important reference from science fiction in this AP should be Frank Herbert, as sure Numeria inner economy deals with certain alien drug addiction and the clans willingly participating in an eugenics project nobody outside Numeria knows about.

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