Nature oracle into mammoth Rider = stupider wolf?

[WalterGM]

Question time!

I have a nature oracle. He has a wolf companion. It's pretty neat. It has an int of 6, and I taught it a language. It's my buddy.

At level 10, I take a level of mammoth rider (because nothing but a bigger wolf is cooler than a regular wolf!). Now, this happens.

Quote:

"This steed functions as a druid's animal companion, replacing any animal companion or mount gained from another class."

Uh oh. So what I'm reading here is that I'm ditching my super cool smart wolf for a bigger, stupider (lurch-style), wolf.

Is my assumption correct?

[Claxon]

Quote:

The mammoth rider's class levels stack with other classes that grant an animal companion to determine her effective druid level.

So you can effectively give your new wolf all the same bonuses your old wolf had because the mammoth rider class level stacks for determining the benefit to your animal companion.

[ShadowcatX]

Looks like. As a DM I'd probably let you slide on it though. Especially if the fluff of it is your same pet just getting bigger.

[WalterGM]

Claxon wrote:

Quote:

The mammoth rider's class levels stack with other classes that grant an animal companion to determine her effective druid level.

So you can effectively give your new wolf all the same bonuses your old wolf had because the mammoth rider class level stacks for determining the benefit to your animal companion.

But that wolf wouldn't be huge sized, would it?

As my reading of it is, you're actually getting two wolves. So you either get to pick the medium/large intelligent wolf at effective druid level 10, or the huge stupid wolf at effective druid level 10.

[Martiln]

You replace the AC you had from your oracle levels with a huge wolf which stacks with your oracle levels to determine its overall level and bonuses, one of which said bonuses is a 6 INT.

[Claxon]

WalterGM wrote:

Claxon wrote:

Quote:

The mammoth rider's class levels stack with other classes that grant an animal companion to determine her effective druid level.

So you can effectively give your new wolf all the same bonuses your old wolf had because the mammoth rider class level stacks for determining the benefit to your animal companion.

But that wolf wouldn't be huge sized, would it?

As my reading of it is, you're actually getting two wolves. So you either get to pick the medium/large intelligent wolf at effective druid level 10, or the huge stupid wolf at effective druid level 10.

Incorrect. By RAW, you're old pet is completely replaced. However, any GM should probably be okay with you flavoring that your old wolf took some steroids and became the Wulk (Wolf + Hulk). However, you absolutely only get one because Mammoth Rider says it replaces any other animal companion. Replace does not mean in addition to, it means loose the old get the new. But, the companion still counts as if you were a 10th level Druid (because Nature Oracle counts its level as equal to Druid as does Mammoth Rider). In any event your "new" pet wolf can get all the bonuses your old one. You're old wolf was smart because you put ability point upgrades into increasing its intelligence. You can do the same with this one and it can be just as smart.

Edit: I think I see where the issue is now, the Nature Oracle bonded mount class feature says it has an intelligence minimum of 6 similar to a paladin's mount. You think that because this replaces the old mount in loses that minimum intelligence feature. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it would keep that feature. Replace is simply to let you know that you don't get an additional animal companion. I would assume that bonus the old mount received would still be applied to the new one.

[WalterGM]

Thanks for the discussion so far. I'm glad there's as much dialogue here as there has been in my head regarding this.

I'd like to hear more if anyone else had differing (or reinforcing) opinions.

[Derek Dalton]

My issue is the replaxing part. I have a Goblin Winged Marauder. They get a Dire Bat or Giant Vulture as a mount slash animal companion. His basic theme is worldwar one two pilot throwing bombs or shooting arrows into melee. Now with Hefty Brute he can at his current size carry him and cohort. GM and I love the idea. Showed me a huge size ba as an idea for later. Mammoth Rider suggested a perfect way to make this.
Then I read replaces existing mount. My issue is this is stated way after it lists what your original gets. Mount grows Huge gets listed abilities etc etc. Then last sentence you replace your mount with listed options. That to me blows. I mean Druids get so many animal companions then to be stuck with what is offered. I mean what about theme as well. Druid is oceanic Drow with a vermin companion Mammoth Rider enhances all his abilities for using his companion but the prestige class then says Nope pick this list only.
Another issue with the class is no errata exists talking about armor or weapon profiency if there is I can't find it

[Belafon]

Derek, I think you may be misunderstanding what Prestige Classes are in the Pathfinder RPG. In particular those like the Mammoth Rider that appear in setting-specific books.

Firstly, Prestige Classes are NOT supposed to be an improvement on base classes. They are supposed to be different but there should never be a situation where a players is taking a Prestige Class because it is better than his base class. They should offer unique abilities and flavor, not "more power."

Secondly, many Prestige Classes are intended to tie into a very specific part of the world lore. As the introduction to Paths of Prestige (the book where the Mammoth Rider appears) says: the classes "are specifically intended for players and GMs who want to customize their characters to fit into a distinctly Inner Sea-flavored campaign." The Mammoth Rider is specifically tied to the Realm of the Mammoth Lords. Where Dire Bats and Giant Vultures aren't usually found.

If your GM likes the idea, she can of course allow you to play a Mammoth Rider with a huge Dire Bat in her campaign. The GM is free to allow, disallow, or change things as she wants.

As for the weapon and armor proficiencies: as someone mentioned in the other thread only about 1/4 of Prestige Classes grant additional proficiencies. Mammoth Rider does not grant any new proficiencies, hence there is no weapon or armor proficiency listed.

[Diego Rossi]

What Belafon said. He was faster writing it.

The Mammoth Rider starts on page 128 of the Adventurer's Guide, but the whole chapter starts on page 126 and is titled: "Mammoth Lords" and speaks about the "Kellid tribes that dwell along the frigid glaciers and sweeping taiga steppes of north-central Avistan". That is the basic flavor of the prestige class.

If you want a "Goblin Winged Marauder", you want something different. Your GM and you can work together to create an appropriate prestige class tweaking the Mammoth Rider and making the Bat Marauder.
The beauty of Pathfinder prestige classes is that they are linked to the background.

[vhok]

the class ability gives the ac 6int.