Yes, I was playing Super Smash Bros. recently. BUT, my point stands.
Have I made a point yet? Here it is:
I'd like to see what you guys can offer to make the Falcon Punch, that wonder of wonders when it comes to utterly obliterating everything in your path with a single punch, a possibility in Pathfinder. If it can easily be accomplished by monks, that'd be even better, as they really could use something like this to up the ante. If the only way it can be done is through homebrew, then so be it--I'd gladly use such an option in my own games. But if it can be done via actual feats and abilities in the game, so much the better!
Please note that I've already seen this thread, and while it's an interesting premise, I don't quite like it. I'd probably use it as a springboard for other possible archetypes, though.
You can use this video as a slight reference to show you the sheer power of a good Falcon Punch.
Essentially, though, it's really, really, really g*++&&ned powerful. And harnesses fire, generally speaking. In PF terms, it includes the following:
- High damage
- Possible fire damage (this would be excellent)
- Windup Time: The Falcon Punch is slow. It's not meant to be part of a Flurry of Blows or something--it's a slow, really powerful punch.
I've got some ideas in mind of how it could be done, with different feat paths, but I don't quite like the end result enough to truly dub it the FALCON PUNCH. So I come to you, community!
Show me your moves!
My personal favorite is Efreeti Touch Your fist creates a cone of fire!
You can get it early with Master of Many Styles, or have the fire do more damage with Monk of the Four Winds.
In theory, those two archetypes don't mix, but that's only because they both replace the cap-stone. If you are really only going to be using a couple of styles, you can try to convince your GM to let you stack them anyway.
Dont forget 1 level of brother of the seal for awesome blow.
Dont forget 1 level of brother of the seal for awesome blow.
Looking at it, it seems one doesn't get awesome blow until 4 levels into the Brother of the Seal PRC. Although it seems to be right on flavor for sure.
Yeah, even as I posted this, I was thinking that the Vital Strike line, plus Elemental Fist and perhaps Efreeti Style would work. Also Dragon Style for extra damage and other nice bonuses (including grabbing MotFW-level Elemental Fist).
My only problem with this is that it works a lot better for Unarmed Fighters, it seems, compared to monks. I'd love to be able to build a monk who can pull off massive-damage single strikes.
Homebrew may be the [edit]best[/edit] option.
Hm. I like it, overall. Not sure the Intimidation mechanic is totally fitting, but it does make sense. At least we know it can be done.
I think I'm going to try and create a specific archetype/build for this, and I'll put it up here when I have a good idea of it.
Kazaan Elemental Fist requires a BAB of +8 and while the MoMS can select it as a bonus feat it does say that he must meet the requirements for it as shown here ctrl+f Master of Many Styles
Alright, here's the archetype I've created for this character. I'm not sure exactly how balanced it is, I'll need to run the numbers, but it doesn't strike me as being too over-the-top. I present to you...
Monk of the Falcon Fist
Though the archetypal monk is an unarmed fighter capable of striking with blinding speed, not every such warrior chooses to unleash a flurry of strikes. Rather, some monks choose to emulate an ancient master known as "Falcon," striking with a slow attack that has truly devastating effects.
Falcon Punch
Monks of the Falcon Fist live (and die) by this iconic and controversial technique. The exact details of how the Falcon Punch works vary from story to story, and, indeed, from monk to monk. Some believe it is harnessing ki and using a form of combat meditation to clear the mind and strengthen the muscles; some say that it is akin to a barbarian's rage, fueling the punch with emotion and raw power. Whatever the cause, the effect is incredibly powerful.
As a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity, the monk of the Falcon Fist may attempt a Falcon Punch. If the monk suffers damage during this attempt, he must make a Fortitude save (DC=Total damage dealt), or his attempt fails. If he suffers no damage or makes his save, the monk of the Falcon Fist successfully uses the Falcon Punch. This is resolved as an unarmed strike, but the monk uses his monk level in place of his BAB for the purpose of bonuses and abilities that rely on BAB. This strike deals maximum damage for its damage die if it hits. For example, a first-level monk of the Falcon Fist with a Strength score of 15 would deal 8 damage on a successful Falcon Punch (6 for the 1d6 unarmed strike damage die, plus 2 for his Strength modifier as usual). Any extra damage dice (e.g., Vital Strike, Elemental Fist, or weapon abilities) are rolled as normal.
At 8th level, the monk of the Falcon Fist treats his unarmed strike as a two-handed weapon for the purpose of extra damage (e.g., from Strength modifiers, Power Attack, etc.) during Falcon Punches. At 15th level, he doubles the extra damage from Strength, Power Attack, and the like rather than multiplying them by 1.5 during Falcon Punches. For example, a level 15 monk of the Falcon Fist with a Strength score of 18 and Power Attack would add +20 damage (+8 for Strength, +12 for Power Attack) rather than +15 (+6 for Strength, +9 for Power Attack).
In addition, the Falcon Punch may be combined with the Vital Strike feat and its improved versions, even though it is not an attack action.
This ability replaces the monk's flurry of blows ability.
Bonus Feats
Monks of the Falcon Fist gain bonus feats at 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter as usual. They may choose their feats from the following list:
Dodge, Dragon Style, Fleet, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Grapple, Improved Sunder, and Power Attack.
At 2nd level, they add Dragon Ferocity and Furious Focus to this list of feats.
At 6th level, they add Mobility and Vital Strike to this list of feats.
At 10th level, they add Dragon Roar and Improved Vital Strike to this list of feats.
At 14th level, they add Greater Vital Strike to this list of feats.
A monk of the Falcon Fist does not need to meet the prerequisites of these bonus feats. This replaces the monk's normal selection of bonus feats.
Falcon Focus
Monks of the Falcon Fist realize that their signature maneuver leaves them open to attack, and that it's easy to be disrupted by enemy blows, so they learn how to cope with this. At 3rd level, monks of the Falcon Fist gain a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves made in response to damage during a Falcon Punch attempt.
This ability replaces the monk's still mind ability.
Ki Pool
Instead of being able to use a ki point to gain an additional attack at the highest attack bonus during a flurry of blows, monks of the Falcon Fist may use a ki point to double the damage dice damage during a Falcon Punch. For example, a 4th-level monk of the Falcon Fist could use a ki point to deal 16 base damage rather than 8 with his Falcon Punch.
Way of the Falcon Fist
At 4th level, a monk of the Falcon Fist may use his monk level to qualify for feats with a fighter level prerequisite when those feats are applied to unarmed strikes.
This ability replaces slow fall.
Falcon Swoop
Beginning at 5th level, a monk of the Falcon Fist has learned how to unleash his power after sprinting forward to strike. He may make a Falcon Punch attempt in place of the normal melee attack at the end of a charge. Both the charge and the attack provoke attacks of opportunity, and the benefits and penalties of both the charge and the Falcon Punch apply. The monk of the Falcon Fist may still apply the benefits of the Vital Strike feat to this attack, even though Vital Strike normally cannot be applied to the attack at the end of a charge.
This ability replaces purity of body.
Knockback Punch
Beginning at 11th level, a monk of the Falcon Fist has learned the secrets of hitting an enemy hard enough to send them flying. When he makes a successful Falcon Punch attempt, he may also make a bull rush combat maneuver attempt against his target as a swift action. He does not need to move with his target to push him farther than five feet with this bull rush.
This ability replaces diamond body.
Aerial Punch
Some of the most powerful monks of the Falcon Fist have discovered a secret that allows them to begin the buildup to a Falcon Punch in midair, thereby avoiding leaving themselves open to attack from the target. When executing a Falcon Punch as part of a charge, the monk may make an Acrobatics check to jump as part of the charge. If he travels at least thirty feet during this jump, he has time to begin the Falcon Punch while in the air. This means that he does not provoke attacks of opportunity from opponents who threaten the square in which he ends his charge.
This ability replaces abundant step.
Defensive Roll
At 13th level, a monk of the Falcon Fist may use the defensive roll advanced rogue talent once per day, plus once per three levels beyond 13th (to a maximum of 3 times a day at 19th level).
This ability replaces diamond soul.
Falcon Destruction
Starting at 15th level, monks of the Falcon Fist can strike so powerfully with their Falcon Punch that the enemy may die instantly. Once per day, the monk of the Falcon Fist may attempt to slay his foe with a Falcon Punch; he must announce that he is using this ability before the attack roll is made, and it is lost if the attack misses. If he hits with the Falcon Punch, he deals damage as usual, and the foe must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's class level + the monk's Strength modifier) or die. If the foe succeeds on this saving throw, it is not killed by this attack, though it may be affected by another such ability at a later time. This is a death effect, and creatures that are immune to critical hits are immune to Falcon Destruction.
This ability replaces quivering palm.
Falcon Resistance
Beginning at 17th level, a monk of the Falcon Fist is immune to fatigue and exhaustion.
This ability replaces timeless body and tongue of the sun and moon.
Greater Defensive Roll
At 19th level, a monk of the Falcon Fist suffers no damage on a successful defensive roll, and only half damage if the Reflex saving throw fails.
This ability replaces empty body.
Perfect Falcon Punch
At 20th level, a monk of the Falcon Fist has reached the zenith of the Falcon Punch, and is capable of truly terrifying and earth-shattering destruction. His Falcon Punches are always critical hits, and still deal maximum damage based on weapon dice. Furthermore, all extra damage dice from other abilities and feats are also maximized.
This ability replaces perfect self.
Please note that this is just an archetype I made up for my own games. I doubt it would ever be published, or used on a wide scale. So, I bend some rules, and not everything is spelled out completely; I'm sure you could come up with some ridiculous schemes using RAW of this and other abilities. Please don't point out a niche combination that would break the game; just comment on balance and such.
GM Armadillephant, this is a copy-and-paste idea for the monk of the falcon fist's philosophy. The following is the original text I stole off wikipedia. Below that is the modified text by which the monk's outlook is understood.
In falconry, a young, but fully-grown, raptor is trained through operant conditioning using the reward of food as a positive reinforcement. Unlike pets, raptors are non-affectionate animals, having no ability to deal with dominant or submissive roles (except the Harris' Hawk). They do not "love" the falconer, they will not aim to please him; they are simply opportunistic and learn that life with the falconer affords the easiest and most reliable source of food and protection. Continuing the relationship, then, is a matter of convenience for the raptor. However, it is often thought there is a bond between bird and falconer, through which each trusts the other. The bird trusts the falconer not to steal its food and provide protection, and the falconer trusts the bird to come back.
In The Tao of the Falcon, a young, but fully-grown, monk is trained through operant conditioning using the reward of food as a positive reinforcement. Unlike menial slaves, these monks are non-affectionate servants, having no ability to deal with dominant or submissive roles. They do not "love" their instructors or masters, they will not aim to please him; they are simply opportunistic and learn that life with the teacher or master affords the easiest and most reliable source of food and protection. Continuing the relationship, then, is a matter of convenience for the monk. However, it is often thought there is a bond between master and student, through which each trusts the other. The student trusts the teacher not to steal its food and provide protection, and the master trusts the slave to come back.
So, basically, Monks of the Falcon Fist are trained just like the birds themselves, and also adopt the bird's attitude to those they are pledged to, be it teacher, master, or king.
Kazaan Elemental Fist requires a BAB of +8 and while the MoMS can select it as a bonus feat it does say that he must meet the requirements for it as shown here ctrl+f Master of Many Styles
It's a point of contention with quite a few heavily faq-flagged threads requesting an answer.
Many read it as not being able to take feats requiring elemental fist until you have elemental first, rather than not being able to take elemental fist without the requirements.
Personally, id just rename quivering palm to falcon punch :P
you can flavour it like you want to (special effects etc)
So no feedback on the archetype?
So no feedback on the archetype?
I gave you feedback. At least, I think it counts as feedback.
So no feedback on the archetype?I gave you feedback. At least, I think it counts as feedback.
Oh, yes, yours I like. Very neat, and definitely to be used :)
EDIT: And on that note, sort of, I'm considering allowing MotFFs to be Lawful or Neutral, but not Chaotic.
I do know about the flying knee, it's a very nice move as well. Still, the Falcon Punch is just so powerful and iconic.
One thing about the archetype I made--as well as builds--is that you can easily reflavor the move to something else. The Falcon Punch could easily become the Falcon Kick or a ridiculously strong raised knee to the jaw.
That build is interesting, proftobe, but I'm interested in trying to create an entirely self-sufficient character who can pull off the attack as he wants to do so. It's an amusing thought process, but a whole build designed to work (at its best) 3 times a day? Not really my cup of tea.
Still no mechanical feedback on the archetype, though, huh? I thought people would have stuff to say.
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Yes, I was playing Super Smash Bros. recently. BUT, my point stands.
Have I made a point yet? Here it is:
I'd like to see what you guys can offer to make the Falcon Punch, that wonder of wonders when it comes to utterly obliterating everything in your path with a single punch, a possibility in Pathfinder. If it can easily be accomplished by monks, that'd be even better, as they really could use something like this to up the ante. If the only way it can be done is through homebrew, then so be it--I'd gladly use such an option in my own games. But if it can be done via actual feats and abilities in the game, so much the better!
Please note that I've already seen this thread, and while it's an interesting premise, I don't quite like it. I'd probably use it as a springboard for other possible archetypes, though.
** spoiler omitted **
I've got some ideas in mind of how it could be done, with different feat paths, but I don't quite like the end result enough to truly dub it the FALCON PUNCH. So I come to you, community!
Show me your moves!
I would recommend a Qinggong Monk, swap out one of your powers for True Strike at some point, keep his STR on par with things, then unleash a Bull Rush after casting True STrike as a standard. +20 insight bonus to your next attack roll, plus your roll, plus your CMB. It'll knock them back a good bit. I don't know that you can deliver damage with it though.
Another thought is the Elemental Fist feat or class feature - However you prefer to obtain it. Make a Qinggong Monk/Druid(which also should have true strike imo) and shift into Huge form and cast STrong Jaw... Colossal Fist damage + whatever static or bonus damage you have going.
Perhaps the Janii Style feats(I think thats the one that double the damage you do on a charge...) could boost the initial charge damage with the attack in mind.
I hope that helps! Also perhaps a Gestalt build would be better, Vital Strike build even. I'm not too keen on those but it does seem more suiting as Captain Falcon is a very quick character with a mean punch/knee/kick(he was a beast in SSB1). Zipping around the battlefield whilst falcon punching seems appropriate. You'll be doing 12d8 IUS damage by level 15 with the Druid/Monk I mentioned. Yes that's per punch. An insane amount with a gestalt build for sure, especially in combination with anything that further increases the damage with Vital Strike or Charging. I'm sure there is a Style feat that would go well with VS or Charge.