Sometimes I plan out characters. Sometimes I don't. It really depends on how much time I have available to make a character, and how long the game is going to last. Another consideration is that planning out a character before hand takes away the fun out of "mini-building" at each level.
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So true. And CE alignment, amirite?
I cringe every time someone uses a class name as an excuse of his actions.
Never had anyone wanting to do CE. I did have a new guy a couple of months ago that did strike me as probably the best LE player I've ever seen, even more impressive due to this being his first time playing tabletop.
He was playing what was essentially a KGB operative, and he managed to be smart, intelligent, charismatic and absolutely ruthless when it appeared to him that the risks were worth it.
I've taken quite a few first time players, usually guys (and gals) that have mostly played computer RPGs, and I've had a decent response for the most time. They tend to care about their characters, their party members and the narrative, while also having more than decent characters, even though I've just given them the tools.
In contrast, I've played with a bunch of players that were 'experienced', some of them substantially more than me, and, MAN, the paranoia and awkwardness was shocking. Let alone all the dick jokes.
I guess it's all how you grew up as a gamer, to be fair.
Also, on topic, I don't actually mind players playing flirty and slutty characters, as long as it's for a reason that's explained.
I also (very slightly) dislike incredibly simulationist players. I greatly prefer somebody explaining how they grab a flagon and jam it into somebody's face, rather than the same old 'two-hand bastard sword'. I explain that I'd let them use the same damage, but make it flashy!
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This joke is getting better and better.meh, sweet at first but now its getting a little bitter.
Stop using artificial jokes, and the regular stuff won't be so bitter. :)
I like the spreads that mix butter, margarine, and vegetable oil. I found them at the dollar store and now I sometimes buy them at regular grocery stores. Hopefully the dangers of butter and margarine don't stack.
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I'm a dirty min-maxer, and most of you "real roleplayers" would apparently hate to have me are your table. I plan ----everything---- out, and design an entire build and THEN stack a story on it. I still RP pretty heavily, more than most people I've encountered, but that apparently doesn't matter and I'm a bad player because I won't purposefully make s***ty characters, or stumble blindly with an "organic" character unable to pick up a feat I want because I ignored prerequisites or highly synergistic abilities that actually make it even more useful.
Nope, I should be shunned, and in fact punished for being so dang good at the game.
Oddly, I found a group of people, including two grognards who've been at it since first edition (...I forget which color box, not that I really care...it's not like it's even really the same game) who enjoy having me around, and seem to want me to teach them what I know of theorycrafting, and designing...almost as if it's a trait to be desired! But that can't be true, because if the boards are to be believed, I am not only a bad player, but a cancerous growth on the body of true gamers!
We should feed you so that you grow more and become inoperable...
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I'm an odd duck who doesn't really fall into either the "real role-players" camp or the "min-max optimizers" club. I think there are really three main facets to D&D and other fantasy RPGs (and actually, most RPGs in general). There is, of course, combat. This is the area that the min-max optimizer camp identifies with most strongly, There is also the social aspect, which holds the most appeal for the "real role-players".
But there is also the oft-overlooked on these forums aspect of exploration/adventure. That is what holds the most appeal for me. It is rarely discussed here, perhaps because compared to combat and even social interaction, there are much fewer rules dealing specifically with it.
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I already know I'm never going to win a forum thread argument, people are too dug in to change their views no matter how good a case either side presents, but I do it anyway because I enjoy arguing.
I love optimization. I prefer to have a character that can dominate encounters and then hold back until there's an emergency. This has saved my party on a couple of occasions. That said, I don't mind other people not optimizing, and I'm more than happy to help them along.
So true. And CE alignment, amirite?
Never had anyone wanting to do CE. I did have a new guy a couple of months ago that did strike me as probably the best LE player I've ever seen, even more impressive due to this being his first time playing tabletop.
A "good" LE PC can be very "good".
I meant CN, not CE. oops.
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But there is also the oft-overlooked on these forums aspect of exploration/adventure. That is what holds the most appeal for me. It is rarely discussed here, perhaps because compared to combat and even social interaction, there are much fewer rules dealing specifically with it.
I like this as well, especially with a GM that can paint a picture with words that feed my imagination...
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I love what others call fluff. The time and effort to create such an extensive background to the adventuring world at large appeals to what remains of my sense of wonder. And sometimes, knowing some of those fluffy bits of info help to discover what's going on in an adventure or AP.
Not to mention, what GM running a homebrew doesn't appreciate the occasional "Wow" or "That's so cool" to the fluff filled details that they took such time and effort to create?
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I love what others call fluff. The time and effort to create such an extensive background to the adventuring world at large appeals to what remains of my sense of wonder. And sometimes, knowing some of those fluffy bits of info help to discover what's going on in an adventure or AP.
Not to mention, what GM running a homebrew doesn't appreciate the occasional "Wow" or "That's so cool" to the fluff filled details that they took such time and effort to create?
As a homebrewer, I couldn't have said it better myself.
1) I've learned to optimize, mostly because the guys in my group do so, and do so well. So, in order to feel helpful, I do so as well. I can go with the flow, no big. Luckily, most of them are also good DMs, so there's plenty of story to be had as well.
2) We often ask the question "Why would these characters ask your character to join them?" to ill thought out characters.
Adventuring is no joke, so why would people take obvious liabilities with them into danger, if there were no story reason (like being paid to escort someone, etc.) to do so?
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Stop using artificial jokes, and the regular stuff won't be so bitter. :)This joke is getting better and better.meh, sweet at first but now its getting a little bitter.
Look guys, there's no need to start getting salty.
Look guys, there's no need to start getting salty.Stop using artificial jokes, and the regular stuff won't be so bitter. :)This joke is getting better and better.meh, sweet at first but now its getting a little bitter.
I'm finding that all these almost-puns leave a bad taste in my mouth.
You guys really need to be more tasteful in your choice of words.I'm finding that all these almost-puns leave a bad taste in my mouth.Look guys, there's no need to start getting salty.Stop using artificial jokes, and the regular stuff won't be so bitter. :)This joke is getting better and better.meh, sweet at first but now its getting a little bitter.
I was going to take a bite out of this, but it turned out to be more than I could really chew on.
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Again, just because a character is not optimized to the nines, does not make them a liability ...
I believe it's more important for the player to be optimized than the character.
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I've abandoned pbp games...
"Shame! Shame! Shame!"
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1) I've learned to optimize, mostly because the guys in my group do so, and do so well. So, in order to feel helpful, I do so as well. I can go with the flow, no big. Luckily, most of them are also good DMs, so there's plenty of story to be had as well.
2) We often ask the question "Why would these characters ask your character to join them?" to ill thought out characters.
Adventuring is no joke, so why would people take obvious liabilities with them into danger, if there were no story reason (like being paid to escort someone, etc.) to do so?
I have never seen a PC character that was "an obvious liability". So what if my PC isn't DPR maximized?
And parties all the time get stuck with dudes that steal or lay back or hide or spotlight hog......
I have never seen a PC character that was "an obvious liability". So what if my PC isn't DPR maximized?
I've seen a few. A caster Druid with 13 Wis, for one. For 7 levels he accomplished jack and all, and provided little of value to the party. Then he quit playing.
In the vein of confessions: I generally detest palladians. Their air of snooty, holier-than-thou snobbery makes me want to strangle them with a dirty sock.
In the vein of confessions: I generally detest palladians. Their air of snooty, holier-than-thou snobbery makes me want to strangle them with a dirty sock.
I mean I know classical architecture buffs can be a bit of a stuffy bunch but isn't this going a bit far?
Nah, it's all in good fun. They try to save my grubby little soul, and I seduce their mentors. It's a beautiful cycle.
Nah, it's all in good fun. They try to save my grubby little soul, and I seduce their mentors. It's a beautiful cycle.
Is this some kind of performance art? I'm not sure I get it.
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I have never seen a PC character that was "an obvious liability". So what if my PC isn't DPR maximized?I've seen a few. A caster Druid with 13 Wis, for one. For 7 levels he accomplished jack and all, and provided little of value to the party. Then he quit playing.
I've also seen a few. It was me once. (A particular specialized build just didn't work as well as I expected.)
An incidentally unoptimized character or two in the group doesn't bother me all that much. If it contributes halfway decently both in and out of combat, that is enough for me.
But I've seen a very few that were intentionally ineffective. For whatever reason it doesn't contribute and actually endangers the other characters for no real reason. That usually does annoy me.
However, it annoys me just as much when someone intentionally and knowingly optimizes for combat to a significantly greater extent than the rest of the group. If the GM tries to challenge that PC, Everyone else is unlikely to survive.
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I love optimization. I prefer to have a character that can dominate encounters and then hold back until there's an emergency. This has saved my party on a couple of occasions. ...
You ever played a team sport with a much better athelete who didn't really try and just putzed around, just waiting for you to be losing so he could 'save the day' and be the only hero? Did you enjoy that game? Most people don't. It is insulting and belittling.
But a powerful character that does work hard, puts extreme effort into helping the others, and that helps make it a team victory? That is greatly appreciated.
1) I've learned to optimize, mostly because the guys in my group do so, and do so well. So, in order to feel helpful, I do so as well. I can go with the flow, no big. Luckily, most of them are also good DMs, so there's plenty of story to be had as well.
2) We often ask the question "Why would these characters ask your character to join them?" to ill thought out characters.
Adventuring is no joke, so why would people take obvious liabilities with them into danger, if there were no story reason (like being paid to escort someone, etc.) to do so?
I have never seen a PC character that was "an obvious liability". So what if my PC isn't DPR maximized?
And parties all the time get stuck with dudes that steal or lay back or hide or spotlight hog......
I've definitely seen that PC. When you spend 2/3 of every combat saving that guy's bacon; he's a liability.
Tried to do both tower shield fighting and two-weapon fighting.
Would switch up between them both in combat and in feat choices. Was a paladin; so feats weren't exactly a commodity. 12 STR (was ALWAYS heavy encumbered, my oracle actually learned ant haul just for him and then he started carrying more crap and was still heavy encumbered) 10 CON, 12 CHA.
Then he would also intentionally blow charging lanes, jack up flanks (he said that sneak attack was dishonorable, so not only would he not flank but he would actively PREVENT flanks), and get caught in AOEs. Then we would spend the rest of combat healing him or moving him.
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I tried to get my wife and kids to optimize a bit more, she just narrowed her eyes and asked (clearly irritated) "do you want us to play or not?" Needless to say the next time she made a witch and put that 10 in dexterity I kept my mouth shut:-)
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1) I've learned to optimize, mostly because the guys in my group do so, and do so well. So, in order to feel helpful, I do so as well. I can go with the flow, no big. Luckily, most of them are also good DMs, so there's plenty of story to be had as well.
2) We often ask the question "Why would these characters ask your character to join them?" to ill thought out characters.
Adventuring is no joke, so why would people take obvious liabilities with them into danger, if there were no story reason (like being paid to escort someone, etc.) to do so?
I have never seen a PC character that was "an obvious liability". So what if my PC isn't DPR maximized?
And parties all the time get stuck with dudes that steal or lay back or hide or spotlight hog......
I've definitely seen that PC. When you spend 2/3 of every combat saving that guy's bacon; he's a liability.
Tried to do both tower shield fighting and two-weapon fighting.
Would switch up between them both in combat and in feat choices. Was a paladin; so feats weren't exactly a commodity. 12 STR (was ALWAYS heavy encumbered, my oracle actually learned ant haul just for him and then he started carrying more crap and was still heavy encumbered) 10 CON, 12 CHA.
Then he would also intentionally blow charging lanes, jack up flanks (he said that sneak attack was dishonorable, so not only would he not flank but he would actively PREVENT flanks), and get caught in AOEs. Then we would spend the rest of combat healing him or moving him.
Sound more like a player problem that PC. The guy just didn't seem to get it.