Playing cards before moving?


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion


Bit of a discussion going on over on BGG thread about cards cards that let you interact with a location.

These cards like Augury, detect evil/magic, Spyglass, Seelah's power.

So the question after one of these are used can you still move an explore somewhere else?

Additionally, with detect evil, you detect the henchman and encounter and defeat it and close the location. Technically this all took place before you used you exploration. So, is that the end of your turn, or can you still move and explore?

Also, after i reset my hand can i play Spyglass or cards like it?

And one more,
Can I play spyglass before another player explores?

I restrain myself from asking anything else now.

Thanks

Liberty's Edge

Detect evil: the card says monster other than henchman or villain, so the situation would not apply. You probably can do a normal exploration after defeating the monster.

I believe that once you've reset your hand, your turn is over and you can't play anymore cards. I'm not aure about playing cards after turning a Blessing over and before moving.


Ah, right, should have looked at the card.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Myriade wrote:
I believe that once you've reset your hand, your turn is over and you can't play anymore cards. I'm not aure about playing cards after turning a Blessing over and before moving.

I agree that resetting your hand is the last thing. That intent seems 'clear' to me.

.
The other point is more arguable, I think. It seems to me that there is little guidance as to when a card can be played other than 'when it seems reasonable' and in that respect, I'd allow it as a general rule (until something weird started to happen).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Unless the card tells you when you may play it, you are able to play a card at any time. This seems like a good play

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

Tracker1 wrote:

Bit of a discussion going on over on BGG thread about cards cards that let you interact with a location.

These cards like Augury, detect evil/magic, Spyglass, Seelah's power.
So the question after one of these are used can you still move an explore somewhere else?

Yes.


Mike Selinker wrote:
Tracker1 wrote:

Bit of a discussion going on over on BGG thread about cards cards that let you interact with a location.

These cards like Augury, detect evil/magic, Spyglass, Seelah's power.
So the question after one of these are used can you still move an explore somewhere else?
Yes.

Hello,

Since it is legal to play the card (detect evil for example) before the move step in your turn. Is it also legal to play the card (or any card) after the reset phase of your turn?

Ulari


Ulari wrote:


Hello,

Since it is legal to play the card (detect evil for example) before the move step in your turn. Is it also legal to play the card (or any card) after the reset phase of your turn?

Ulari

No, because immediately after the reset phase your turn is over (p. 9). From then until the start of your next turn (after you advance the blessings deck) you can only play cards that affect someone else's check.


Eric W wrote:
Ulari wrote:


Hello,

Since it is legal to play the card (detect evil for example) before the move step in your turn. Is it also legal to play the card (or any card) after the reset phase of your turn?

Ulari

No, because immediately after the reset phase your turn is over (p. 9). From then until the start of your next turn (after you advance the blessings deck) you can only play cards that affect someone else's check.

Page 10 of the rule book says if a card in your hand does not specify when it can be played it can generally be aplayed at any time. With the exception of attempting each step of a check.

So, i see no reason why another player could not play detect evil, or spyglass on another players turn.

Liberty's Edge

I think I read somewhere that when it's nor your turn, the only thing you can do is affect affect other players check or help them evade monsters.


Tracker1 wrote:
Eric W wrote:


No, because immediately after the reset phase your turn is over (p. 9). From then until the start of your next turn (after you advance the blessings deck) you can only play cards that affect someone else's check.

Page 10 of the rule book says if a card in your hand does not specify when it can be played it can generally be aplayed at any time. With the exception of attempting each step of a check.

So, i see no reason why another player could not play detect evil, or spyglass on another players turn.

I see what you're saying. You make an interesting point and I wish the rule book was a little clearer here.

By my reckoning, the reason why a player cannot cast Detect Evil or use the Spyglass on another player's turn is because of the fundamental idea that only the player whose turn it is can initiate actions. This is basically the definition of having a 'turn' in a game like this (having the opportunity to act.)

Of course maybe I'm wrong and Mike and his team envision a more free-form and chaotic game where multiple players can do things simultaneously. It seems like you'd definitely need a GM for that =)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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I think people are letting a lot of outside baggage from other games get in the way here. As a cooperative game, we generally want to encourage interaction, and that includes a lot of playing cards on other people's turns.

rules wrote:
If a card in your hand does not specify when it can be played, you can generally play it at any time, with the exception that during each step of attempting a check, you may only perform specific actions, so your ability to play cards may be limited.

So when we say you can play a card on a check, ask yourself: is someone else's check a check? Well, yes it is, so play away! If we want you to play it only on your check, we'd say your check. And if we care about what location someone is at, we'll say that on the card. If we don't say "at your location," or "at another location," or similar, and the rules don't say otherwise, then location doesn't matter.

In short, you'll do well to take the spirit of cooperation as a guide.


Vic Wertz wrote:

I think people are letting a lot of outside baggage from other games get in the way here. As a cooperative game, we generally want to encourage interaction, and that includes a lot of playing cards on other people's turns.

rules wrote:
If a card in your hand does not specify when it can be played, you can generally play it at any time, with the exception that during each step of attempting a check, you may only perform specific actions, so your ability to play cards may be limited.

So when we say you can play a card on a check, ask yourself: is someone else's check a check? Well, yes it is, so play away! If we want you to play it only on your check, we'd say your check. And if we care about what location someone is at, we'll say that on the card. If we don't say "at your location," or "at another location," or similar, and the rules don't say otherwise, then location doesn't matter.

In short, you'll do well to take the spirit of cooperation as a guide.

I'm not sure who you're replying to here, Vic. The question isn't whether or not players can cooperate on a check -- I think by now we all understand they can and do. The question is whether or not someone can play exploring or exploring-like cards (like Detect Evil and Spyglass) on a different player's turn. That is what I mean by 'initiate an action'.

Thanks for any clarification or guidance you might be able to give!

Paizo Employee Contributor

Eric W wrote:

By my reckoning, the reason why a player cannot cast Detect Evil or use the Spyglass on another player's turn is because of the fundamental idea that only the player whose turn it is can initiate actions. This is basically the definition of having a 'turn' in a game like this (having the opportunity to act.)

Of course maybe I'm wrong and Mike and his team envision a more free-form and chaotic game where multiple players can do things simultaneously. It seems like you'd definitely need a GM for that =)

We feel free to play any card at any time, and it's much less chaotic than you think. It's downright cooperative, really. Example:

Player 1: "...and that's all I've got, so I'll reset my hand and be done." (draws cards) "Oh, hey, a Spyglass!"

Player 2: "I'll start" (flips a blessing from the Blessings Deck) "I'm planning to stay here at the Woods, what do you guys think?"

Player 1: "Wait a second, let me see what's coming up with the Town Square, you might want to come over here." (uses Spyglass on Town Square)

Player 3: "I don't care what's over there when I have only three cards in my deck, so I'm going to Cure right now, before it gets to my turn." (casts Cure, rolls the d4, shuffles cards, rolls to recharge, etc., all while Player 1 is looking at the Town Square cards with the Spyglass).

Player 1: "I've got a Bugbear, and Father Zantus over here in the Town Square. Like they're just having a drink together in the pub, I suppose."

Player 2: "Neat! I've got detect evil, so put the Bugbear on top, please. Then I can encounter it for free, and still take my explore to try to pick up Zantus Bugbear-Friend." (moves token over to Town Square)

...and so on, and so on...


Ron Lundeen wrote:
Eric W wrote:

By my reckoning, the reason why a player cannot cast Detect Evil or use the Spyglass on another player's turn is because of the fundamental idea that only the player whose turn it is can initiate actions. This is basically the definition of having a 'turn' in a game like this (having the opportunity to act.)

Of course maybe I'm wrong and Mike and his team envision a more free-form and chaotic game where multiple players can do things simultaneously. It seems like you'd definitely need a GM for that =)

We feel free to play any card at any time, and it's much less chaotic than you think. It's downright cooperative, really. Example:

(cut)

Ah, cool! I hadn't thought of that way before. I stand corrected. Thanks!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Eric W wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:

I think people are letting a lot of outside baggage from other games get in the way here. As a cooperative game, we generally want to encourage interaction, and that includes a lot of playing cards on other people's turns.

rules wrote:
If a card in your hand does not specify when it can be played, you can generally play it at any time, with the exception that during each step of attempting a check, you may only perform specific actions, so your ability to play cards may be limited.

So when we say you can play a card on a check, ask yourself: is someone else's check a check? Well, yes it is, so play away! If we want you to play it only on your check, we'd say your check. And if we care about what location someone is at, we'll say that on the card. If we don't say "at your location," or "at another location," or similar, and the rules don't say otherwise, then location doesn't matter.

In short, you'll do well to take the spirit of cooperation as a guide.

I'm not sure who you're replying to here, Vic. The question isn't whether or not players can cooperate on a check -- I think by now we all understand they can and do. The question is whether or not someone can play exploring or exploring-like cards (like Detect Evil and Spyglass) on a different player's turn. That is what I mean by 'initiate an action'.

Thanks for any clarification or guidance you might be able to give!

The first part of my response does indeed address that—the example I gave was just one example illustrating that point. Here's another:

So when you want to play a card on someone else's check, ask yourself: Is anything telling you you can't? If not, play away!


Fair enough.

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

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Eric W wrote:
The question isn't whether or not players can cooperate on a check -- I think by now we all understand they can and do. The question is whether or not someone can play exploring or exploring-like cards (like Detect Evil and Spyglass) on a different player's turn.

Page 9:

You may never explore on another player’s turn.

Spyglass definitely works on another player's turn, though. You can discard it to look at the top 2 cards in the deck and rearrange them before your friend explores.

Mike


Page 9:
You may never explore on another player’s turn.

I think the question is in the language on the cards detect evil/magic. They don't say explore. They say encounter.

"If it is a *card type*....you may encounter...."

Is an encounter treated the same as exploring?

I don't believe so otherwise how do I "encounter" an ancient skeleton henchman that was summoned from someone else finding one on their turn. That card specifies to have an encounter during someone else's turn.

From that logic you should be able to cast detect magic on another players turn and encounter that card if it has the magic trait correct?

Liberty's Edge

Mike Selinker wrote:
Eric W wrote:
The question isn't whether or not players can cooperate on a check -- I think by now we all understand they can and do. The question is whether or not someone can play exploring or exploring-like cards (like Detect Evil and Spyglass) on a different player's turn.

Page 9:

You may never explore on another player’s turn.

Spyglass definitely works on another player's turn, though. You can discard it to look at the top 2 cards in the deck and rearrange them before your friend explores.

Mike

But you have to be in the same location as the player you're helping right?

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer

Myriade wrote:
Mike Selinker wrote:
Spyglass definitely works on another player's turn, though. You can discard it to look at the top 2 cards in the deck and rearrange them before your friend explores.
But you have to be in the same location as the player you're helping right?

Yes. The card says "your location."

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