Card sleeves


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion

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The Exchange

In my opinion it is much easier to shuffle small hands when the cards are sleeved using the side shuffle method. The main reason that I chose to sleeve is that I have 2 or 3 groups all using my set, and I know they are going to get VERY worn by the time the last adventure comes out. I figured if I could prevent wear for the first couple of expansions before needing to take them off to make room it would be worth it in the long run... my buddies TSA set for example got visibly worn and faded as we played the base set, now it is easy to tell if the next card on the top of a pile is a new or old one.

My experiment on smaller sleeves to fit more in the box at 5 times the cost (Pro-Fit Regular) was not in my opinion worth it, for the next set I will use cheap penny sleeves.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I used Ultra Pro clear sleeves on mine.
My game store helped me chose the correct sleeve size. They cost $5.00 per hundred.
They are just slightly wider and taller than the cards, by maybe a milimeter, and still fit into the slots in the box.
They do not cause cards to bend and fold like I saw some of NOG's doing.


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silentdante wrote:

so which sleeves do people think would be the best for me to buy?

is shuffling with sleeves weird? i have never played a deck builder (or magic/card games) where I had sleeved cards so I don't know what the "feel" of it is like.

I would like to have a tighter fit and not a lot of overhang or anything, so suggestions on brands would do wonders for newbie sleevers like me!

thanks
-silentdante

I'm using Mayday Games Premium 63.5mm x 88mm (50 sleeves per pack for $2.25). They're thicker than the standard sleeves, code number MDG-7077. The top of the card sets right at the top of the sleeve and they side-shuffle so beautifully easy when sleeved in them.

I highly recommend these sleeves, if you wish to sleeve, as they barely increase the height of the cards, do not cause them to warp, cup, or bend, etc...


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TClifford wrote:

Agan, I can't stress enough how I think the insert in the box is perfect for the game itself. I am one of those ones that is using sleeves and will eventually have to come up with an alternative, but that's fine. That is how I play the game and I'm sure and other people that use sleeves are probably in the minority. I do know that when the next box comes out, I'll just recycle my sleeves for the next game and then put all the cards back into their respective slots for storage.

Vic, you all did a great job on this game. The game is fun and the production value is great. Just keep doing what you are doing and this is going to be a good year.

I agree, the insert is outstanding. It will be less than outstanding for me after Skinsaw is released as I am choosing to sleeve my cards. But, that's my choice. Not everyone wants to deal with sleeves/likes to use them. If the game was released and issued with sleeves, I'm sure the insert would have been different, but it's not. Sleeving is a personal preference which the creators cannot plan for. If the insert were staged for sleeves, it would be very awkward for players who don't sleeve.

To everyone involved in the production of the game, well done, and thank you for being so responsive to all of our questions, and concerns, even if some of them have been overly aggressive or overly rude (not meaning you, TCliff). Everyone I know who's played so far is loving the game. I for one can't wait to see the rest of the runelord expacs, and the new base set next year (fingers crossed).


Everthefool wrote:
Sleeving is a personal preference which the creators cannot plan for. If the insert were staged for sleeves, it would be very awkward for players who don't sleeve.

Except they CAN plan for it. They can implement a solution that works for everyone. Other companies do, and I hope that Paizo makes the same decision going forward.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

One way to make it possible for sleeves in future boxes is to make the add on decks double thick instead of double wide. That way the deck place holders can be used for cards.

The Exchange

Charles Scholz wrote:

I used Ultra Pro clear sleeves on mine.

My game store helped me chose the correct sleeve size. They cost $5.00 per hundred.
They are just slightly wider and taller than the cards, by maybe a milimeter, and still fit into the slots in the box.
They do not cause cards to bend and fold like I saw some of NOG's doing.

Yeah I should have gone with the regular clear sleeves by ultra-pro, I got the pro-fit concept from someone on BGG. The pro-fit you actually need to stretch to get on the cards. I wish I had opted for the deck protector line for the same cash outlay... 7 packs at 4 bucks each was an unfortunately experiment.

The Exchange

Everthefool wrote:


I'm using Mayday Games Premium 63.5mm x 88mm (50 sleeves per pack for $2.25). They're thicker than the standard sleeves, code number MDG-7077. The top of the card sets right at the top of the sleeve and they side-shuffle so beautifully easy when sleeved in them.

I highly recommend these sleeves, if you wish to sleeve, as they barely increase the height of the cards, do not cause them to warp, cup, or bend, etc...

Interesting, the Pro-Fit sleeves (stock number 82712) are 64X89 and do not fit, they need to be stretched to fit the card in, and on some of the cards the edge actually sticks out the top of the sleeve. I wonder if there is a QC issue at Ultra-Pro. Seems odd your smaller in every direction sleeves fit and these do not.

The Exchange

Charles Scholz wrote:

One way to make it possible for sleeves in future boxes is to make the add on decks double thick instead of double wide. That way the deck place holders can be used for cards.

The box could also be designed to have the empty expansion boxes stored below the tray so none of that area currently slotted for empty boxes takes up space...


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dustbunnyrob wrote:
Everthefool wrote:
Sleeving is a personal preference which the creators cannot plan for. If the insert were staged for sleeves, it would be very awkward for players who don't sleeve.
Except they CAN plan for it. They can implement a solution that works for everyone. Other companies do, and I hope that Paizo makes the same decision going forward.

Why are you so insistent about projecting your anti-insert crusade every time someone isn't unhappy with it like you are? An insert will either have too large or too small slots depending on whether it is designed to hold sleeved cards or sleeveless cards.

I'm fine with the insert and will work around it when I have to since I decided to sleeve the cards.

IF they choose to create a sleeve friendly insert later, bully for them. Until then quit trying to make others who are satisfied unhappy.


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Everthefool wrote:

Why are you so insistent about projecting your anti-insert crusade every time someone isn't unhappy with it like you are? An insert will either have too large or too small slots depending on whether it is designed to hold sleeved cards or sleeveless cards.

I'm fine with the insert and will work around it when I have to since I decided to sleeve the cards.

IF they choose to create a sleeve friendly insert later, bully for them. Until then quit trying to make others who are satisfied unhappy.

Easy there Fool. Remember everyone has their own opinion.


Everthefool wrote:

Why are you so insistent about projecting your anti-insert crusade every time someone isn't unhappy with it like you are? An insert will either have too large or too small slots depending on whether it is designed to hold sleeved cards or sleeveless cards.

I'm fine with the insert and will work around it when I have to since I decided to sleeve the cards.

IF they choose to create a sleeve friendly insert later, bully for them. Until then quit trying to make others who are satisfied unhappy.

I don't comment when people are happy about the insert...I comment when someone says something that is patently false.

I'm glad for you that you are fine with an insert that you are going to have to throw away. It bothers me that I have to pay money for something that doesn't work for everyone. The cost of that insert is non-trivial. Simple dividers solve the same issue, are just as useful for setup, require a smaller footprint for the box itself, and result in a lower cost overall.

I'm not trying to make anyone unhappy (and how would someone even go about something like that?). There is no crusade. I've said before that I think the insert, as it is, is a good start for a product new to the company; but they can do better in the future.


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When you talk about dividers - do you mean like the Thunderstone game? I bought the first few of those and didnt find them as easy to use as the insert for this game, personally (I'm one who is hoping Paizo continue as is for future 'base sets'). With Thunderstone, I found the different packs kind of merged despite the card dividers and it wasnt so easy to grab a specific 'pack' with one hand quickly. This became especially true as I added extra expansions. Given I frequently have to draw random cards from the box in this game (in contrast to Thunderstone, I think? It's been a while) I'm not sure the same solution would be right for both games.

Did the thunderstone card dividers get better as they released more expansions? (Or are you talking about something else maybe?)


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Steve Geddes wrote:

When you talk about dividers - do you mean like the Thunderstone game? I bought the first few of those and didnt find them as easy to use as the insert for this game, personally (I'm one who is hoping Paizo continue as is for future 'base sets'). With Thunderstone, I found the different packs kind of merged despite the card dividers and it wasnt so easy to grab a specific 'pack' with one hand quickly. This became especially true as I added extra expansions. Given I frequently have to draw random cards from the box in this game (in contrast to Thunderstone, I think? It's been a while) I'm not sure the same solution would be right for both games.

Did the thunderstone card dividers get better as they released more expansions? (Or are you talking about something else maybe?)

I have not seen this in person, but a quick Google search for pics of the box of Thunderstone Advanced came up with this one image.

Picture

Lots of preprinted dividers and foam to help support those cards.


Mogloth wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

When you talk about dividers - do you mean like the Thunderstone game? I bought the first few of those and didnt find them as easy to use as the insert for this game, personally (I'm one who is hoping Paizo continue as is for future 'base sets'). With Thunderstone, I found the different packs kind of merged despite the card dividers and it wasnt so easy to grab a specific 'pack' with one hand quickly. This became especially true as I added extra expansions. Given I frequently have to draw random cards from the box in this game (in contrast to Thunderstone, I think? It's been a while) I'm not sure the same solution would be right for both games.

Did the thunderstone card dividers get better as they released more expansions? (Or are you talking about something else maybe?)

I have not seen this in person, but a quick Google search for pics of the box of Thunderstone Advanced came up with this one image.

Picture

Lots of preprinted dividers and foam to help support those cards.

Thunderstone Advanced is easily the "most accommodating" insert/setup I've seen.


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dustbunnyrob wrote:
Everthefool wrote:

Why are you so insistent about projecting your anti-insert crusade every time someone isn't unhappy with it like you are? An insert will either have too large or too small slots depending on whether it is designed to hold sleeved cards or sleeveless cards.

I'm fine with the insert and will work around it when I have to since I decided to sleeve the cards.

IF they choose to create a sleeve friendly insert later, bully for them. Until then quit trying to make others who are satisfied unhappy.

I don't comment when people are happy about the insert...I comment when someone says something that is patently false.

I'm glad for you that you are fine with an insert that you are going to have to throw away. It bothers me that I have to pay money for something that doesn't work for everyone. The cost of that insert is non-trivial. Simple dividers solve the same issue, are just as useful for setup, require a smaller footprint for the box itself, and result in a lower cost overall.

I'm not trying to make anyone unhappy (and how would someone even go about something like that?). There is no crusade. I've said before that I think the insert, as it is, is a good start for a product new to the company; but they can do better in the future.

So, let me get this straight, my opinion (and others who like the insert) and the fact that sleeving vs. not sleeving is a personal choice is "patently false"? Whereas your opinion is "patently true"? I'm sorry it bothers you, but that doesn't make my opinion any less true or false than your own.

I'm not interested in working around dividers for regular drawing like the Thunderstone Box or other after-market storage systems. I can still use the insert to draw from while playing even if I'm not storing all of my cards in it (shuffle, place top portion of each deck in the insert, refill from storage when needed, no big deal).

You want something different, that's fine, but not everyone wants the same thing. Share your opinion but stop being so unnecessarily aggressive throwing around "none of it is close to true", "patently false", "strange idea" comments just because someone else's opinion doesn't fit your personal world view.


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Mogloth wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

When you talk about dividers - do you mean like the Thunderstone game? I bought the first few of those and didnt find them as easy to use as the insert for this game, personally (I'm one who is hoping Paizo continue as is for future 'base sets'). With Thunderstone, I found the different packs kind of merged despite the card dividers and it wasnt so easy to grab a specific 'pack' with one hand quickly. This became especially true as I added extra expansions. Given I frequently have to draw random cards from the box in this game (in contrast to Thunderstone, I think? It's been a while) I'm not sure the same solution would be right for both games.

Did the thunderstone card dividers get better as they released more expansions? (Or are you talking about something else maybe?)

I have not seen this in person, but a quick Google search for pics of the box of Thunderstone Advanced came up with this one image.

Picture

Lots of preprinted dividers and foam to help support those cards.

Thanks. That looks vaguely like what I remember. I didn't find them easy to use (in terms of getting one, specific set out quickly). Although, from memory thunder stone had most of that at the beginning of the game, rather than during it.


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Steve Geddes wrote:
Thanks. That looks vaguely like what I remember. I didn't find them easy to use (in terms of getting one, specific set out quickly). Although, from memory thunder stone had most of that at the beginning of the game, rather than during it.

Yeah, I would love to actually see this box in person. Although from what I remember of the original Thunderstone game, the space inbetween the dividers would be greater in future base sets of PACG. So, less potential cramming of fingers inbetween dividers.


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dustbunnyrob wrote:
the totally mystifying inclusion of cards that we are supposed to write on

On a side note, I DO totally agree with this from a few days ago. When I looked at those cards something went "sproing" in my brain and I went..."<twitch> Lol... wuh tuh fuh? NOPE!"

Thankfully the printable characters sheets (thank the Paizo pantheon) fixed that issue, and were realized as key needs prior to formal release.


Everthefool wrote:
So, let me get this straight, my opinion (and others who like the insert) and the fact that sleeving vs. not sleeving is a personal choice is "patently false"?

Not at all. I wasn't talking about anything that was your opinion. What was wrong was when you said that the company couldn't plan for both people who don't sleeve and people who do at the same time. That was the statement that I was talking about.


Everthefool wrote:
dustbunnyrob wrote:
the totally mystifying inclusion of cards that we are supposed to write on

On a side note, I DO totally agree with this from a few days ago. When I looked at those cards something went "sproing" in my brain and I went..."<twitch> Lol... wuh tuh fuh? NOPE!"

Thankfully the printable characters sheets (thank the Paizo pantheon) fixed that issue, and were realized as key needs prior to formal release.

This was a perfect example of Paizo seeing an issue and fixing it. Hopefully, those type of character sheets will be included in the next game. And hopefully they will be able to fix the other issues that are present in this first game (better cardstock would be great).


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dustbunnyrob wrote:
Everthefool wrote:
So, let me get this straight, my opinion (and others who like the insert) and the fact that sleeving vs. not sleeving is a personal choice is "patently false"?
Not at all. I wasn't talking about anything that was your opinion. What was wrong was when you said that the company couldn't plan for both people who don't sleeve and people who do at the same time. That was the statement that I was talking about.

This style of insert isn't going to work (long term) for both sleeved and sleeveless cards without a work around. With that said, long term storage for both won't facilitate the easy "draw as needed" function of the current insert.

I'd be less pleased with a storage focused insert rather than the in-game use focused insert. To each his or her own and we can agree to disagree as we're both really coming from different angles (storage vs. utility), but again, that's my opinion/perception of the discussion.

This will simply be another game which I have some additional side storage for, but unlike some others I'll still keep/use the insert for play. It's super handy like that.


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dustbunnyrob wrote:
better cardstock would be great).

That is the consensus of everyone I've heard mention the cards: They are a bit on the flimsy side. As Mogloth mention, even a couple of play throughs without sleeves leaves the edges of the cards marked up.

I am happy all my cards are now safely in sleeves which will reduce, but not eliminate entirely, wear on the cards. And I have 500+ waiting for the expansions to come as well.

As far as including the sheets in the next game, I'm just OCD enough to still want to print them for use and keep the included ones in pretty, shiny shape.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:
I say for future Basic boxes, have the whole box slotted and each slot able to hold 50-75 cards that you can customize to what you need, (no matter the card type) ...
Frankly, I'd be very frustrated with that box. There are 21 loot cards in RotR, and I don't want to have to put them in a slot where they're flopping around, or a slot where I have to mix them with other cards to keep them from doing so. On the other end of the spectrum, there are several hundred monster cards in the set, and when I have to seed a location with random monsters, I don't want to have to draw them from several different slots. Having them all in one slot means I can set the game up faster, and that means I can move on to the fun part sooner.

The ultra simple solution is to use a box without slots, but rather packs the cards into rows. Place labeled dividers between different card types.

Most likely I'm going to pick up a cheap white cardboard box (the kind people use for baseball cards) and transfer the game to that. I'm not a fan of the bulk and size of the current box, though I will miss the art on the outside.

I did this with Dominion. If I had stuck with the in box card sorter for that game, I'd need to carry a half-dozen full sized boxes to meetups or friend's houses. Instead I just carry one box that's more densely packed. I made dividers, with labels, for each card type so setup is easy and simple.

Sentinels of the Multiverse was published in this style of box, including nice looking dividers already labeled.

Instead of looking at a chart to see (or needing to remember) where cards go, you just put them with their labeled divider. With planned expansions, you just include foam inserts that are discarded (or oriented differently) as space is needed.

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Irontruth wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:
I say for future Basic boxes, have the whole box slotted and each slot able to hold 50-75 cards that you can customize to what you need, (no matter the card type) ...
Frankly, I'd be very frustrated with that box. There are 21 loot cards in RotR, and I don't want to have to put them in a slot where they're flopping around, or a slot where I have to mix them with other cards to keep them from doing so. On the other end of the spectrum, there are several hundred monster cards in the set, and when I have to seed a location with random monsters, I don't want to have to draw them from several different slots. Having them all in one slot means I can set the game up faster, and that means I can move on to the fun part sooner.

The ultra simple solution is to use a box without slots, but rather packs the cards into rows. Place labeled dividers between different card types.

Most likely I'm going to pick up a cheap white cardboard box (the kind people use for baseball cards) and transfer the game to that. I'm not a fan of the bulk and size of the current box, though I will miss the art on the outside.

...

Instead of looking at a chart to see (or needing to remember) where cards go, you just put them with their labeled divider. With planned expansions, you just include foam inserts that are discarded (or oriented differently) as space is needed.

I did this over the weekend, and it works great. Since I'd long ago abandoned manufacturer packaging to store Dominion, Thunderstone, LotR, Netrunner, and Star Wars LCGs, it wasn't too hard to set this up the same way. I made up some (admittedly shoddy) dividers for each type of card, corresponding to the different slots called out in the rulebook, as well as one for each of the adventure decks, and one for the Character Add-on. This way the cards that aren't currently in the game can be sequestered from those that I'll need quick access to, and I can add cards from them when I get to the respective adventures, or remove cards from the main box to them as I pull them out later in the game.

So far, running through one scenario with this setup, it didn't add any extra time to setup or gameplay, but I did spend a few hours sleeving all the cards, printing and cutting the dividers.

Being the Pathfinder collector I am, however, I didn't throw away the big box like I did with the boxes for all my other card games. It's just chillin' in the closet with my Christmas decorations. That way I can move this set back into it when the next base set comes out and I don't need to keep buying new sleeves/white boxes for each set when I'm no longer using the previous one.


This weekend I noticed some of the cards were already starting to show a little wear. Mainly, its ones that are in my character decks. I decided sleeving will be necessary.

I only sleeve the character decks. I am not using the character cards to move around since I have Bones figures instead. I don't use the character cards. I am using the character printout sheets from the site so I can mark on the sheet my feats and what I have completed.

When I explore and obtain a card, I quickly sleeve it and put it in my hand. It has been working very well. The cards that get shuffled game after game and see a lot of handling in my character decks are protected. Cards that are flipped and stuck back in the box I don't sleeve. After the game, any cards I don't keep for my character decks are unsleeved and returned to the box. It does take a little more time, but I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

The benefits to this method:

They still fit in the character deck slots in the box.
I do not have to buy a lot of sleeves, they are expensive.
Everything still fits in the box and so will future adventure packs.


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Dragon Shields!! Nothing but the best for my games :D

All deckbuilding cards in black, locations and character tokens in red. Character sheets, roles, adventure paths, adventures and scenarios in clear. Map markers for writing on clear sleeves and leveling up characters.

I like to build two to three scenarios at a time (3 players) the red locations and character tokens allow me to quickly divy out everything for setup.


Andrew Jackson 394 wrote:

I am using Mayday Games card sleeves. Green pack, size 63.5mm x 88mm and the cards all fit in the box in the right place. That's with everything from the core, character add on and burnt offerings.

I suspect there will be a space problem after another pack or two especially in the blessing or monster decks.

I followed this gem and bought some sleeves from Mayday. I can't say I was happy with their shipping prices or their speed of delivery(I was forced to pay 2 day shipping and didn't get my package until 5 days later), but the sleeves fit like a charm. No wasted space and very few were doa.

I have all of the base and character add-on cards sleeved and fitted into their appropriate slots. Some of them are looking a little full but could still stand to have another twenty or more pressed in. The quality is maintained after melding decks thirty or so times but I'm sure after a couple hundred shuffles the corners will bend. If ANY moisture or grime gets on the sleeve they bind like silly putty to newspaper. No worries, you can peel them apart and wipe them off and they work like new. As a cleaner person, I've had very little issue with them sticking together.

I'd say the Mayday green packs are a definite step up from penny sleeves but are not as sturdy as an archival sleeve. For my group of gamers they are sufficient.


I had no intention of sleeving this game until after about eight plays. Unless you slide the card off the table, I see no way it will avoid chipping. Edges were getting nicked every play and we're pretty gentle with the game (since I paid for it, I insisted).

I get that cost is an issue, depending upon how you sleeve, but I can't imagine not sleeving these cards; unless you don't mind the wear showing. I still keep mine in the box insert and I can see chips sticking out in the different categories. It's my favorite game and I wish I'd sleeved from day one.


A storage solution that I've started using more is the 8.1 liter sized "Really Useful Box", available at Staples and Amazon and probably many other places. I chose this because I can't discard or destroy original game packaging (ask me about my original NES game boxes in my attic).

You will have to make your own row dividers (cardboard or foam board works great for this), so you need to be somewhat crafty, but the box itself (inner dimensions: 9.5 x 12 x 4.5 inches) is sized just about perfectly so that you can fit sleeved cards in 1 of 3 configurations:

* 3 rows width-wise, horizontal
* 3 rows length-wise, vertical
* 4 rows width-wise, vertical

My LOTR card game (~1600 cards) fits into a single box in the 3LV configuration, with just enough room to spare for token boxes (also RUB).

I really like the provided box insert, but this game will be moving into one as soon as the next adventure deck arrives.


I used Ultra Pro black back to sleeve at 9€ the 100. They are good, and very tight around the card so there is not too much trouble keeping them in the gamebox.

They shuffle and stack nicely too.

For the location and character I use crystal clear of the same brand.

It was costly but it is very satisfying and now I can play with anyone at anytime without worrying about what did they just eat and when did they last wash.


It's a shame that the card stock isn't very good. I wanted to go with the flow and use the insert as intended, but I too noticed lots of chipping along the black edges after just a few sessions. Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't accept that for a game I'll be playing a lot over the next year. :)

Just for reference, I'm using the UltraPro clear sleeves that are about $5-$7 for 100 and replaced the insert with three of those white, collectible card shoeboxes. Everything's working like a charm.


I have the base set and it appears that once we have all the cards (~1200) from all the expansions that the (unsleeved) cards will fit nicely into the subdivided card slots alone. That leaves a ton of space in the section designated for the expansion decks, which will be left empty.

I can't help but notice that the game calls for us to removes cards from the 'active' sections of the box. Does this mean there might be space for for ALL of the sleeved cards if a large collection of the unused cards are placed in that hole for the expansion decks?

Has anyone tried filling those double wide expansion boxes with Ultra-Pro Pro-Fit card sleeves, or other 'snug' sleeves? How well does that work?

Maybe my spacial estimates are off, but there seems like plenty of space for sleeved cards if all the unused cards are placed in the expansion deck crater.


HolmesandWatson wrote:
I get that cost is an issue, depending upon how you sleeve, but I can't imagine not sleeving these cards; unless you don't mind the wear showing.

Cost is a huge issue... but not the cost of sleeving. The base game cost $60 and the character add-on another $20. After ~15 game sessions and *very* careful handling the cards are starting to look like crap.

Its hugely expensive NOT to sleeve the cards.

Its easy to see why Pazio reps seems so set against against the idea of sleeves. The cards get damaged. Easily. All the piles of cards get shuffled dozens of times a scenario which is significant wear and tear. We have no way to replace the cards without buying a *completely new set*. Spilled beverage? $80.00. Easily spotted villains due to damage? $80.00. (More as new adventures come out.)

Flat the Impaler wrote:

A storage solution that I've started using more is the 8.1 liter sized "Really Useful Box", available at Staples and Amazon and probably many other places. I chose this because I can't discard or destroy original game packaging (ask me about my original NES game boxes in my attic).

...

* 3 rows width-wise, horizontal
* 3 rows length-wise, vertical
* 4 rows width-wise, vertical

I really like the provided box insert, but this game will be moving into one as soon as the next adventure deck arrives.

Great idea. I'm going to have a crafty relative start on this.

Drunkenping wrote:
I can't help but notice that the game calls for us to removes cards from the 'active' sections of the box. Does this mean there might be space for for ALL of the sleeved cards if a large collection of the unused cards are placed in that hole for the expansion decks?

Good question.

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Developer

silentdante wrote:
is shuffling with sleeves weird? i have never played a deck builder (or magic/card games) where I had sleeved cards so I don't know what the "feel" of it is like

This is something of a personal-taste question, but I'm pretty comfortable saying that almost everyone finds shuffling with sleeves to be *different*. I've seen dozens of people move from no-sleeves to sleeves, and every one (myself included) has had to put effort into the transition.

On the other hand, it's not at all impossible, or even hard to shuffle sleeved cards; it's just different.

The specific sleeves vary a lot - some are very slick; some are textured while others are smooth; the edges and corners can be done differently in ways that affect the shuffle. One thing that you probably won't expect if you haven't played with sleeved cards before is just how much bulkier everything gets. Yes, sleeves are thin (some very, very thin), but multiply that thin layer by 2000+ and it makes a difference.

A standard bridge shuffle can be problematic, as the `open end' of the sleeve can be caught by the other half of the bridge - but the specific ways this happens vary from sleeve to sleeve, and some types basically don't have this problem at all. The change in slickness often makes for a `flying bridge' the first few times. Many people I know people either switch to a riffle shuffle or turn the bridge sideways - but again, it all varies.

Another issue is the deck size - most of the decks in the PACG are either 10 or 15-ish cards (location and character decks). That is (IMHO) too small for a bridge shuffle anyway. If you're frequently shuffling the large stocks in the box, you probably want to break it into parts and shuffle the parts. As a plus, you can usually just take two piles of (squared) sleeved cards an interleave them with just a little effort.

Good luck, and thanks for playing!

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Developer

Flat the Impaler wrote:
A storage solution that I've started using more is the 8.1 liter sized "Really Useful Box", available at Staples and Amazon and probably many other places.

I'd love to see what storage solutions people create for the game, if you don't mind sharing. (As my wife might say, "Pics or it didn't happen.")

If you're building now for the future, keep in mind that the full Rise of the Runelords will be ~1200 cards. If you fill a slot in the current (awesome, IMO) box with cards, then sleeve those cards, you can get an estimate of how big each well needs to be.


Chad Brown wrote:
I'd love to see what storage solutions people create for the game, if you don't mind sharing. (As my wife might say, "Pics or it didn't happen.")

I would be happy to share. Heck, I'll even provide a how-to with measurements for others. I'll try to create something (probably on BGG) when I can muster up some motivation.

Chad Brown wrote:
If you're building now for the future, keep in mind that the full Rise of the Runelords will be ~1200 cards. If you fill a slot in the current (awesome, IMO) box with cards, then sleeve those cards, you can get an estimate of how big each well needs to be.

I agree, the current box is awesome. I just wish it worked better with sleeved cards, and maybe wasn't quite so big. I fully appreciate and understand why it is what it is, and I will say it's miles ahead of most other card game boxes I've encountered. It just doesn't fit my personal choice to sleeve the cards and it doesn't fit well (size-wise) among my other games; I fully expected that going in, so I'm not at all disappointed.

I haven't created wells for my custom insert, just rows for now; I've just been using vertical tabs as separators and foam blocks to fill extra space. I know the box has the capacity (as I mentioned, I have ~1600 sleeved cards in one for another game), so I'm not concerned in that aspect.


I put my cards in Mayday Games 63.5 x 88 mm (2 1/2 by 3 1/2 inch) clear polypropylene card game size sleeves. They slide in nicely and have maybe a 1mm space on each edge all around the card. It's tight enough that the cards don't slide around much at all in the sleeves, and loose enough that there is no warping of the cards. They are a tad slippery when shuffling, and other than that they work great.

I printed off some fan made dividers from BGG and sized them to fit the sleeves also, and use them in the box insert for now.

Right now I have the base set + character add + burnt offerings all fitting in the box, but monsters and blessings are getting close to the limit. So I'll be transferring my cards to a new box, or designing a new insert for current box once I receive the second expansion.


The THIN Mayday sleeves (100 to a pack) are perfect, size-wise. But I'm forever plagued with those thin sleeves sticking together.

The THICK Mayday sleeves (50 to a pack) are listed as being the same size, but are a bit wider and a bit shorter - making them about 0.5mm too short.


RDewsbery wrote:
The THIN Mayday sleeves (100 to a pack) are perfect, size-wise. But I'm forever plagued with those thin sleeves sticking together.

I have not had any trouble with mine, but I'm in a pretty dry climate so that might have something to do with it.


I sleeved my cards. Easily accomplished while watching the first half of a football game. As for cost, buying in bulk from either Amazon or eBay, the cost of UltraPro sleeves is less than $1/100. So $5 for some peace of mind and added protection is a no-brainer for me (I have teenage kids).

I currently have the cards in the insert, but I think I'll be looking to an alternative at some point.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The villain Elysian had a small nick when I opened the box. That is why I sleeve.


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I have used my Thunderstone Adv. card sleeves for Pathfinder.

It just solves itself once you think about it.

Actually it solves something I haven't even realized at the time I did it.

I like the "feel" of the Thunderstone cards without the sleeves, whereas the Pathfinder cards just profitted from the sleeving. :)

In the future, the many sleeved cards will find their way into another box, maybe my old Thunderstone Adv. box ....

One half of the inserts, namely from Weapons to Blessings, will probably be in the new box.

So I will have a Bane and a Boon Box ;)

Greets all and thnx for the brilliant game Pathfinder ACG


M80DK wrote:

In the future, the many sleeved cards will find their way into another box, maybe my old Thunderstone Adv. box ....

I saw people on BGG replacing the insert with 3 x 660 card boxes. I bought boxes last week and did the same. They fit perfectly and I get to keep the original box!

Now I just need to stop being lazy and make some decent dividers.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
I'm not telling you not to do it—I'm just telling you that that decision comes with some pain, or at least requires some creativity on your part! You sound like a creative guy as far as this type of thing goes, but others looking in on this thread may benefit from being warned off.

Dang, wish I had this warning before I bought all these sleeves and then realized...hmmm....this ain't gonna fit... :)


h2ofowler wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
I'm not telling you not to do it—I'm just telling you that that decision comes with some pain, or at least requires some creativity on your part! You sound like a creative guy as far as this type of thing goes, but others looking in on this thread may benefit from being warned off.
Dang, wish I had this warning before I bought all these sleeves and then realized...hmmm....this ain't gonna fit... :)

Still worth sleeving to preserve the cards. As far as being nicked goes, they are of poor quality.


Chad Brown wrote:
If you're building now for the future, keep in mind that the full Rise of the Runelords will be ~1200 cards. If you fill a slot in the current (awesome, IMO) box with cards, then sleeve those cards, you can get an estimate of how big each well needs to be.

Is there an official (exact) count of how many cards there will be of each type when all is said and done? I've decided I'd like to create solid partitions, and I'd rather have exact counts to do my measurements than rough guesses based on well size.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Assuming you have the Base Set, the Character Add-On Deck, all of the Adventure Decks, and one copy of each promo card:

Character Decks: 28 (each)
Characters, Roles, and Tokens: 33
Adventure Paths, Adventures, and Scenarios: 41
Locations: 56
Monsters: 146*
Villains: 37
Henchmen: 191
Barriers: 70*
Weapons: 102*
Spells: 105*
Armors: 58*
Loot: 21
Items: 97*
Allies: 93*
Blessings: 113*

(We've created 1 promo card for each of the starred types.)


Awesome! Thank you!


Maybe a good way to go is have a deluxe set when all the expansions are released with plastic cards like Gloom. Might not need to sleeve those.

Our Gloom cards haven't gotten crazy use so I'm not sure how they hold up.

I may sleeve my PACG cards but right now I don't think life is providing us with enough free time to use them enough to worry about it.

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