Talk me down off the ledge... I'm losing hope in PFS and I don't want to


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Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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Funky Badger wrote:

Toughness: saving unprepared wizard's behinds since 1995.

:-)

But isn't taking Toughness a form of preparation? :)

Also, archery is totally easy mode.

Grand Lodge 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Sadly, when you're the only one in melee with the stone guardian....
You've already made a bit of a tactical blunder here... :-)

Fighter attacks.

Stone whallops fighter

Rogue moves to flank, sneak attack! yay finally!

Fighter looks at hit points left, withdraws

Rogue needs new undies.

No tactical blunder necessary.

I would say the fighter withdrawing instead of waiting for the healer to heal him is a tactical blunder. If there is no healer and they are fighting such a high damage melee brute in melee...that is a tactical blunder all on it's own.

Silver Crusade

10 con on any PC near the front line is very risky. That's why I can't believe they gave the pregen ninja 10 con. At level 4, he's actually behind both the pregen wizard and sorceress in HP!


Mike Franke wrote:

You throw a lot of different issues together here. Although I have faced some of these issues, usually related to new players, It sounds like some of the problem may be related to your expectations and play style.

1. There is no relation between "roleplay" and "role" play. There are plenty of great players out there who never dress up or pretend to have accents. I have met plenty of barbarians that hit plenty hard but never spoke in "barbarian" speak. If a person does not do both in your eyes they are a bad player. That is a you problem.

2. You say right in your post that you are playing a 7th level character at 3rd and 4th level tables and are surprised that no one seems to be as effective as you. I know this can't be avoided sometimes the only 3-7 table available is as you describe but you can't be shocked that a 7th level character is more effective than a 3rd or 4th level character. Of course it is and that does not mean the players of the lower level characters are bad players!

3. PFS is not designed for super-optimized characters, although that seems to be changing some with the new more challenging scenarios. PFS is in part a feeder to get new players into the game. People like yourself that have been around since living greyhawk are going to be more skilled than most.

I'm not sure on point 1 he was claiming you -Had- to do those things to be good, I think he was just giving an example. Ex: I don't use an accent, but I can "play" my rogue character as a cocky smooth-talking scoundrel, but the wizard in my party never talks in character ever, he only says "i convince them of x" or "i tell them y".

On 2, again, I think you may have missed the mark of what he was saying. I don't think he was just talking about the level, but about the skill of players in general. He also referenced other players that did well, but he wasn't talking about them being 7th level. I think his issue here was that because people weren't on par with his skill level, he was out-levelling them quickly and having to repeatedly retire and rebuild characters.

And three, I pretty much agree with you. In PF when you start hyper-optimizing, the game starts to fall apart.


Jiggy wrote:

Wow, really? In my area, I've encountered maybe 4-5 archers in over two years of play. Meanwhile, it's a semi-common issue to have so many melee characters that battlefields get clogged, frustrating any charge-based or AoE characters the table might have.

I still have vivid memories of our session of "Defenders of Nesting Swallow", in which my rogue (pirate archetype) and another melee rogue were the only melee builds in a 6-PC table. That one hurt, a lot. :-D

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Kyle Elliott wrote:

Come on out to the west coast my friend, we're all pretty solid out here and if you make it up to Seattle...we got some solid games running everyday of the week (almost ;p ).

Don't listen to Kyle. He's a werebear. And you can't trust werebears.

Come over the the east side of Washington. We've got games running a little less frequently, but a lot more awesomely :P

Spoiler:
Love you Kyle.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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You know, one of my problems with a recent version of another game's organized play was that it virtually required you to make your character optimized. Well, I don't play for optimization, I play for fun. So, if my character isn't optimized, too bad. I know how to play my characters, and I can assure you I can make even a non-optimized character effective.

If I think a CON of 10 is appropriate for my character, that's what I am going to give him. But please, just because I don't optimize my character don't label me a "bad player" or whatever. That attitude of smugness is what helped to kill organized play in my area of another game.

This game is about fun, and even a non- or sub-optimized character can be fun for the player and for the table.

Bad players don't learn to play, either the game system itself or their characters. Bad players are lazy - they don't do what they need to do to contribute (even if sub-optimally.)

Mark

Silver Crusade

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:

Toughness: saving unprepared wizard's behinds since 1995.

:-)

But isn't taking Toughness a form of preparation? :)

Also, archery is totally easy mode.

Not in my experiences. But it is very effective in many cases.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Lots of people wrote:
Well, I don't play for optimization, I play for fun.

Little bit of a rant:
Well, I don't play for voice acting, I play for fun.

Well, I don't play for inter-table consistency, I play for fun.
Well, I don't play for a loosely-cohesive series of scenes, I play for fun.
Well, I don't play for other people's enjoyment, I play for fun.
Well, I don't play for comedy hour, I play for fun.
Etc, etc.

Everyone plays this game for fun. Everyone. So whenever someone says something along the lines of "I don't play for X, I play for fun", they demonstrate two things:
1) Their inability to imagine not only that someone else has fun with different aspects of the game than they do, but also that those people have every bit the same right to their fun as the speaker has to theirs.
2) That they have little to no awareness of what aspects of the game they themselves find fun (if they knew, they'd use that term instead of "fun").

Scarab Sages

With that, let them play Bonekeep or The Waking Rune, and then see if "playing for fun" is "playing for fun"

Silver Crusade

It's not very fun to have to pick up the slack when a CON 8 or CON 10 character gets smoked. I agree with Jiggy, the "I play for fun" line is meaningless without a definition of fun.


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Cao Phen wrote:
With that, let them play Bonekeep or The Waking Rune, and then see if "playing for fun" is "playing for fun"

Roleplayers trying to out-macho other roleplayers.

Awesome.

1/5

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12 con is my absolute minimum for a PFS character, and I usually go 14+.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Jiggy wrote:
Lots of people wrote:
Well, I don't play for optimization, I play for fun.
** spoiler omitted **

That's actually not true. I *DO* understand, that for some, optimization is fun. It is most decidedly not fun for me. I wasn't criticizing those who do as players.

So you can claim I have no imagination or whatever, but you would be far from correct.

Mark

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Also, chalk me up as someone else who doesn't see why a Ranger with a 16 str is a problem...

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Cao Phen wrote:
With that, let them play Bonekeep or The Waking Rune, and then see if "playing for fun" is "playing for fun"

I'd happily play Bonekeep, thanks.

My character died in Hellknight's Feast at Gen Con. I paid for my own resurrection and restorations, despite others offering to help.

And the game was still fun for me (in that particular scenario there are many social encounters.) I certainly enjoyed the combat encounters (even the one that led to me death.)

Spoiler:
Having a wraith hit you twice and draining CON, once being a critical hit for 12 points of CON drain - well, a 5th level cleric probably isn't going to be able to sustain all that CON drain. And it was still fun.

Grand Lodge

My 10 CON monk has been doing just fine.

1/5

bsctgod wrote:
My 10 CON monk has been doing just fine.

Excellent. People win the lottery, too. ;)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Mark Stratton wrote:
I *DO* understand, that for some, optimization is fun. It is most decidedly not fun for me.

Well, that's quite a bit different from the statement you actually made. "X is fun for some, but not for me" is very different from "I don't play for X, I play for fun". The former allows X to be a valid form of fun, while the latter makes X and "fun" mutually-exclusive.

Quote:
I wasn't criticizing those who do as players.

Yes you were, even if unintentionally. If it's not your intent to tell people that they're playing a game for a motivation other than "fun", then don't say things that mean that. Or if you do, then don't be surprised when people continue to think you meant what you said.

3/5

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OP:

1. Depending on the build 16 str Rangers are fine. Two weapon fighter Rangers need / may want the stat points to keep their dex high for two reasons: 1. Their AC boost from armor isn’t going to be very high. 2. They may want to switch-hit. Remember, Rangers are support fighters. It’s not always bad to be decently effective at both range and in melee.

At low levels, sometimes the best thing a bard can do is sing.

Any character with a 10 con is a dicey proposition, I’ll give you that.

I’m a little confused on this last point of your opening paragraph. Your characters are optimized to the point that you can solo encounters. So what’s the problem? You’re optimized and winning encounters. Also, why does it matter if the others aren’t contributing at your level? Does it cost you something? Does your fun depend on others “pulling their weight?” Imagine if all the party was built on your philosophy … wouldn’t all the scenarios become cakewalk easy? Do you want that? I ask honestly, because some people like cakewalks.

As to the roleplay aspects, the only thing I can suggest is to encourage by example, and by interaction. When interacting with characters, ask them questions about themselves. Try to form a bond with them. You are all pathfinder agents, after all.
I’ll echo the whole “Don’t use Thornkeep as a metric” sentiment. The EASIEST wing of that dungeon can be pretty tough.

2. I have a few points to make here.

Organized play is bottom heavy. Because they want to encourage new players to join, because a lot of people prefer the simplicity of low level play (high level play no longer just rewards system mastery, but kind of requires it), and because a lot of GMs don’t like the prospect of running a complex, high level combat.

If you want to play high level, one of the best resources you have is PFS online play; this doubly for you, since you move a lot.

If you want to play high level, but want to play in person, organize your own table. I did this for a Ruby Phoenix Tournament game that we had locally, and I started the conversation to organize an Eyes of the 10 run at PaizoCon. If you want a game, nothing beats getting online and piping up, “Hey let’s get a game going … who’s with me?”

3. You should always play in the tier that your character is built for. If you are having trouble finding a game appropriate for your character, please refer to my suggestions on point 2. And of course you are smashing 3rd and 4th level scenarios if you are 7th level. The scenario wasn’t built for you. Find level appropriate games to play in. I beg you. I’m sure you’ll be happier.

4. Optimizers can get a bad rep. It’s too bad too, because on the surface, there’s nothing wrong with it. However, there are problems that you find with optimizers.

First, they can trivialize encounters. Instead of an epic encounters the fight is over as soon as the optimized character goes. Whether it be the fighter that can deal OMGOVER9000 damage and one shot anything in front of them, or the Wizard who uses the save or suck/die mechanic with a really hard to beat save DC, that character has now made the rest of the party unnecessary, whether they were bad/decent/good. That can’t be very fun for them. You have to remember that this is a SOCIAL game and not just an I WIN game. Building optimized characters doesn’t make you a jerk, how you use them may or may not make you one, though.

Second, optimization players can be egotistical, and kind of elitist jerks. Sorry to say it OP, but it seems like you’re riding that line, if not stepping in that territory. If you are still reading, here’s why: You’re expecting everyone to play Pathfinder your way. They’re having badwrongfun. I can’t stand folks who try to tell others how to have their fun. Now to be fair, I also rail against the grognards who yell and whine about any optimization at all. They hate any books beyond the CRB because as far as they are concerned, PCs are too powerful already. They hate retraining. They hate races that aren’t classic Tolkien races. They seem to believe in the age old Stormwind fallacy, which I personally know to be a big pile of horse poop. Long story short, they’re haters. Just like elitists.

Now let’s be clear. I’m not saying you have to put up with players who don’t build to your standards, nor do I think you should play in groups with bad tactics if you don’t want to. But that’s what the internet is for. Communicate. Find a group of players / GMs / tables that fit your style. Just don’t tell others how to have their fun.

As an addendum to all that, if they are bad, but don’t want to be, teach them. If you want better play from them, and they want to play/build/RP better, the ball’s in your court. But again, that depends on them wanting help.

So there are my thoughts, OP. I hope I didn’t offend too much.

The Exchange

Lamontius wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Derek Weil wrote:
By the by, what Feats would you take on a 1st level wizard? I'm playing my first and having a tough time choosing. He's human so I get two. I can move this to advice if it's too much of a tangent.
Toughness and Improved Initiative. You won't regret them.
Toughness?
Toughness.
Toughness!

Absolutely toughness. I've seen angry shoanti take less of a beating. Flexes his 241 hit points.

The Exchange

Funky Badger wrote:

Think I just played that adventure, but surely that's what Emergency Force Field is for?

Toughness: saving unprepared wizard's behinds since 1995. :-)

I prefer over-preparation. . .

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Saren Valasorn wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Derek Weil wrote:
By the by, what Feats would you take on a 1st level wizard? I'm playing my first and having a tough time choosing. He's human so I get two. I can move this to advice if it's too much of a tangent.
Toughness and Improved Initiative. You won't regret them.
Toughness?
Toughness.
Toughness!
Absolutely toughness. I've seen angry shoanti take less of a beating. Flexes his 241 hit points.

"Hitpoints? Rukk have those!!

Flexes his 112 hit points at level 5. Doesn't have toughness yet.

3/5

Saren Valasorn wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Derek Weil wrote:
By the by, what Feats would you take on a 1st level wizard? I'm playing my first and having a tough time choosing. He's human so I get two. I can move this to advice if it's too much of a tangent.
Toughness and Improved Initiative. You won't regret them.
Toughness?
Toughness.
Toughness!
Absolutely toughness. I've seen angry shoanti take less of a beating. Flexes his 241 hit points.

Toughness! And fast learner if you are a human!

Scarab Sages

Saren Valasorn wrote:
Lamontius wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Funky Badger wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Derek Weil wrote:
By the by, what Feats would you take on a 1st level wizard? I'm playing my first and having a tough time choosing. He's human so I get two. I can move this to advice if it's too much of a tangent.
Toughness and Improved Initiative. You won't regret them.
Toughness?
Toughness.
Toughness!
Absolutely toughness. I've seen angry shoanti take less of a beating. Flexes his 241 hit points.

Is that even possibleat 12? With a Level 1, 20 Base CON Barbarian with Toughness and Tribal Scars, I am only pulling 145 HP Base at Level 9. Rage gives it an extra 18, as well as a +4 CON belt.

The Exchange

Walter Sheppard wrote:

"Hitpoints? Rukk have those!!

Flexes his 112 hit points at level 5. Doesn't have toughness yet.

By Chaldira, I salute you friend! I'll be interested to see how your resilience progresses as you continue to master your craft.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Flexes his 112 hit points at level 5. Doesn't have toughness yet.

Okay - I'm curious. I'm getting 95 as a theoretical max (101 if you add in Tribal Scars.) How are you getting that high?

Lantern Lodge

Cao Phen wrote:
Is that even possibleat 12? With a Level 1, 20 Base CON Barbarian with Toughness and Tribal Scars, I am only pulling 145 HP Base at Level 9. Rage gives it an extra 18, as well as a +4 CON belt.

Could probably beat it with the right boons. Let's see:

18 base
2 race
2 boon from [mega spoiler]
1 boon from Kirin or Rival
3 level
6 belt
6 greater rage

38 Con in rage. With toughness and favored class bonus that would be 281 hps.

Saren is a wizard though, and level 18. So entirely different formula... that ends at 313 hp as a huge dragon. :p

Scarab Sages

Iammars wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Flexes his 112 hit points at level 5. Doesn't have toughness yet.
Okay - I'm curious. I'm getting 95 as a theoretical max (101 if you add in Tribal Scars.) How are you getting that high?

I get possibly get 116, but that is pulling all stops:

27 - Level 1 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness, Tribal Scars)
13 - Level 2 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20)
13 - Level 3 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20)
14 - Level 4 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness)
14 - Level 5 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness)
15 - Raging (Raging Vitality Feat)
5 - Belt of Constitution
15 - Pesh (Temporary)

116

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Suddenly I'm wondering whether the (actual, not theoretical) PCs whose HP is being referenced here are the exception or the (preferred) norm. What's a good baseline HP amount for a frontliner?

Lantern Lodge

Jiggy wrote:
Suddenly I'm wondering whether the (actual, not theoretical) PCs whose HP is being referenced here are the exception or the (preferred) norm. What's a good baseline HP amount for a frontliner?

In my personal opinion, the answer to that question directly relates to your AC, saving throw numbers, and other various defenses (DR, evasion, access to emergency force field, ect.)

For fairly "normal" play, you want to be acquiring at least 7 hit points a level for reliable front lining. This number can be adjusted down slightly for amazing defenses, or up slightly to significantly for iffy to flat poor defenses.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Hm, okay, so for a frontliner type with 31-32 AC when he hits 9th level, and has pretty solid saves, then 8HP/level would be decent?


I think my barbarian/summoner is gonna need more HP...

Don't ask why I'm making a barbarian/summoner

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

RUKK NO SHARE SECRETS!!

I will say it includes a seeker arc boon, a boon from a now unplayable faction, and full feat and retrain commitment to pull off.

I should break 300 HP by 12. Fingers crossed!

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Cao Phen wrote:


15 - Pesh (Temporary)

Rukk no do drugs. Drugs bad!!

Sovereign Court 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Walter Sheppard wrote:

RUKK NO SHARE SECRETS!!

I will say it includes a seeker arc boon, a boon from a now unplayable faction, and full feat and retrain commitment to pull off.

I should break 300 HP by 12. Fingers crossed!

Gah. Now this'll be a puzzle in the back of my head for a while...

*concocts plan to run for Walter's barbarian, then audit him...*

EDIT: I should say - I got up to 106. Still 6 points missing somewhere. (Already included Tribal Scars...)

Lantern Lodge

Jiggy wrote:
Hm, okay, so for a frontliner type with 31-32 AC when he hits 9th level, and has pretty solid saves, then 8HP/level would be decent?

For a level 9, that progression is solid in my opinion. If you would like some of our actual PFS play experience to support my perspective I'd be happy to share.

Lantern Lodge

Iammars wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:

RUKK NO SHARE SECRETS!!

I will say it includes a seeker arc boon, a boon from a now unplayable faction, and full feat and retrain commitment to pull off.

I should break 300 HP by 12. Fingers crossed!

Gah. Now this'll be a puzzle in the back of my head for a while...

*concocts plan to run for Walter's barbarian, then audit him...*

Lol rude, Iammars, rude! ;)

Scarab Sages

77 at level 11? That seems a bit on the low side. I was thinking of at least 10 per level, with the decent AC.

Now, for the maximum amount of HP, you have you have two options, Straight Barbarian, or Barbarian 11/Alchemist 1

27 - Level 1 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness, Tribal Scars) [27]
13 - Level 2 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20) [37]
13 - Level 3 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20) [50]
14 - Level 4 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [64]
14 - Level 5 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [78]
14 - Level 6 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [92]
14 - Level 7 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [106]
14 - Level 8 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [120]
14 - Level 9 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [134]
14 - Level 10 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [148]
14 - Level 11 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [162]
14 - Level 12 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [176]
48 - Raging (Raging Vitality Feat) [224]
36 - Belt of Constitution [260]
24 - Kirin, 4/8/12 [284]
12 - SPOILER [296]
15 - Pesh (Temporary) [311]

27 - Level 1 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness, Tribal Scars) [27]
13 - Level 2 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20) [37]
13 - Level 3 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20) [50]
14 - Level 4 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [64]
14 - Level 5 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [78]
14 - Level 6 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [92]
14 - Level 7 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [106]
14 - Level 8 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [120]
14 - Level 9 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [134]
14 - Level 10 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [148]
14 - Level 11 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [162]
11 - Level 12 (Alchemist, CON 20, Toughness) [173]
48 - Raging (Raging Vitality Feat) [221]
36 - Belt of Constitution [257]
24 - Kirin, 4/8/12 [281]
12 - SPOILER [293]
24 - Alchemical [317]
15 - Pesh (Temporary) [332]

Edit: To Add the Seeker Arc, add 12 to each total, so Barb [323], Barb/Alch [344]

Double Edit: To include the HP Retraining, with maiximum PP gained in each scenario, it will be 24 total extra HP, so Barb [347], Barb/Alch [371].

Silver Crusade

Lormyr wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Suddenly I'm wondering whether the (actual, not theoretical) PCs whose HP is being referenced here are the exception or the (preferred) norm. What's a good baseline HP amount for a frontliner?

In my personal opinion, the answer to that question directly relates to your AC, saving throw numbers, and other various defenses (DR, evasion, access to emergency force field, ect.)

For fairly "normal" play, you want to be acquiring at least 7 hit points a level for reliable front lining. This number can be adjusted down slightly for amazing defenses, or up slightly to significantly for iffy to flat poor defenses.

That sounds like about what I aim for. I usually try to get 14 con with a d8 class or at least 12 con with a full BAB class, which is 7 points per level. Throw in about half of my favored class bonuses into HP, and I'm averaging about 7.5 per level minimum for my front liners.

But again, there are exceptions. ie Relatively low armor barbarian with 16 con and Raging Vitality (min 15 con).

The real question is how low are you willing to go for a non-front liner. I've got a gnome sorcerer who started with 14 con and picked up a +2 con belt at level 6 because he didn't have anything better to spend his cash on. I've also got an archer bard who only has 10 con, which I'm pretty sure is the only one I've got below 12.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Iammars wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:

RUKK NO SHARE SECRETS!!

I will say it includes a seeker arc boon, a boon from a now unplayable faction, and full feat and retrain commitment to pull off.

I should break 300 HP by 12. Fingers crossed!

Gah. Now this'll be a puzzle in the back of my head for a while...

*concocts plan to run for Walter's barbarian, then audit him...*

EDIT: I should say - I got up to 106. Still 6 points missing somewhere. (Already included Tribal Scars...)

(psst, retraining hitpoints)

Sovereign Court 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Iammars wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:

RUKK NO SHARE SECRETS!!

I will say it includes a seeker arc boon, a boon from a now unplayable faction, and full feat and retrain commitment to pull off.

I should break 300 HP by 12. Fingers crossed!

Gah. Now this'll be a puzzle in the back of my head for a while...

*concocts plan to run for Walter's barbarian, then audit him...*

EDIT: I should say - I got up to 106. Still 6 points missing somewhere. (Already included Tribal Scars...)

(psst, retraining hitpoints)

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooh. See, when I saw you say "full feat and retrain commitment" I thought you were

Spoiler:
going to retrain Tribal Scars into Toughness as soon as Toughness would give you more hit points.
.

That makes more sense (and also why you don't know exactly how many hit points you're going to have at 12th level).


Well, my non-frontliners haven't had much use for more HP, but I'll probably upgrade my DEX belt on my life oracle to a DEX/CON belt when I get the money. Life Link really drains your HP quick.

Anyway, slightly back on topic...I must say, I do share some of the same feelings of the OP, insofar as being on the verge of giving up on PFS, albeit not for the same reasons. I had lots of horrible games leading up to Gencon but since Gencon was a blast I decided to stick with it, but now the games are trending downwards once more. I dunno if Gencon was a fluke or that's just how it is. But I do find the complaints about "bad" players kinda odd, since most pcs I run into are fairly competent at least and at most friggin' insane, like seriously.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

Cao Phen wrote:

77 at level 11? That seems a bit on the low side. I was thinking of at least 10 per level, with the decent AC.

Now, for the maximum amount of HP, you have you have two options, Straight Barbarian, or Barbarian 11/Alchemist 1

*snip*

Nice!

But of course the real victory is going to be when Rukk has Diehard, Tenacious Survivor, and a ring of regeneration.

Scarab Sages

Walter Sheppard wrote:
Cao Phen wrote:

77 at level 11? That seems a bit on the low side. I was thinking of at least 10 per level, with the decent AC.

Now, for the maximum amount of HP, you have you have two options, Straight Barbarian, or Barbarian 11/Alchemist 1

*snip*

Nice!

But of course the real victory is going to be when Rukk has Diehard, Tenacious Survivor, and a ring of regeneration.

*cough

Additional Resources wrote:
all half-orc feats except Tenacious Survivor is legal for play


bugleyman wrote:
bsctgod wrote:
My 10 CON monk has been doing just fine.
Excellent. People win the lottery, too. ;)

Both of mine doing fine as well.

So far.

Lantern Lodge

Cao Phen wrote:
77 at level 11? That seems a bit on the low side. I was thinking of at least 10 per level, with the decent AC.

It depends on the other defenses. I think a monk with 80 hp will probably get along fine at level 11 in PFS play if he has an AC of 40 and saves of fort +12, ref +18, will +15 w/improved evasion.

I think 8 hp/level with a 32 AC is perfectly acceptable for level 9. Untouchable no, but solid yes. I would not sit in constant worry for a team mate with those numbers at 9th level play.


The Fourth Horseman wrote:


Any character with a 10 con is a dicey proposition, I’ll give you that.

Nonsense.

Sovereign Court

Ye have all my sympathy and understanding. I have run into a lot of the same.

Part of it is finding specific people to game with to let the more "casual" people enjoy their games together and those focused a bit more on taking things "seriously" group together.

Of course then you'll have venture captains come on and say things that make you angry and you stop playing for another six months.

(People in LG did seem to be a bit more up front about what they expected at a table, I agree.)

Scarab Sages

Ok, to do the MAXIMUM amount now, there are a few changes to the calculations. First, you must obtain a keep, to regenerate Prestiege as earliest as possbile. So starting at Level 4, you have Prestiege regeneration.

With the Seeker, as well as other bonuses, here is what you have:

- Barb - 323 HP
- Barb/Alch - 344 HP

Now seeing that you maximized your prestiege earned, you have 18 at Level 3, using the 15 to get the Keep, as well as the 4 you gained at the mission, you now have 7/22 at Level 4. You spend 6PP to obtain 2 extra HP. Moreover, replace the pesh with SPOILER ROCK, giving you an extra 24 HP, rather than 15.

- Barb - 332 HP
- Barb/Alch - 353 HP

With that, you now (seeing maximum completion) obtain 3 per mission, so 3 HP per level. That means you have 8 more levels to obtain it. 8*3 is 24. Not much gain without the keep, but you still gain 2 extra HP

- Barb - 356 HP
- Barb/Alch - 377 HP

Now, this is all with the extra perks. If you do not have access to limited stuff, like the Spoiler, Rock, Kirin, Seeker, or Keep, here is your total HP:

27 - Level 1 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness, Tribal Scars) [27]
13 - Level 2 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20) [37]
13 - Level 3 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20) [50]
14 - Level 4 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [64]
14 - Level 5 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [78]
14 - Level 6 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [92]
14 - Level 7 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [106]
14 - Level 8 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [120]
14 - Level 9 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [134]
14 - Level 10 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [148]
14 - Level 11 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [162]
14 - Level 12 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [176]
48 - Raging (Raging Vitality Feat) [224]
36 - Belt of Constitution [260]
12 - 4/8/12 [272]
15 - Pesh (Temporary) [287]

27 - Level 1 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness, Tribal Scars) [27]
13 - Level 2 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20) [37]
13 - Level 3 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20) [50]
14 - Level 4 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [64]
14 - Level 5 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [78]
14 - Level 6 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [92]
14 - Level 7 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [106]
14 - Level 8 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [120]
14 - Level 9 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [134]
14 - Level 10 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [148]
14 - Level 11 (Barbarian, Favored Class, CON 20, Toughness) [162]
11 - Level 12 (Alchemist, CON 20, Toughness) [173]
48 - Raging (Raging Vitality Feat) [221]
36 - Belt of Constitution [257]
12 - 4/8/12 [269]
24 - Alchemical [293]
15 - Pesh (Temporary) [308]

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