I ask because I'd like to try out a different set of rules for gaining ranks, and if I set the cap at max 10 ranks in a given skill, how much do you think that would impact skill checks?
1d20 + 10 + ability Mod + class skill + other bonuses seems like it would be reasonable to ensure a good chance at success on just about any skill check.
Which skills really benefit from having more than 10 ranks?
Do you need more than 10 for anything, really?
In case you're curious about the rules I plan on using...
Characters gain additional Skill Points (SP) each level equal to their character level.
Each Skill Rank costs more than the last. 1st rank costs 1xSP, 2nd rank costs 2xSP, 3rd rank costs 3xSP, etc. Example: Increasing an untrained skill to rank 3 costs 6 SP (1+2+3=6). Increasing a skill from rank 3 to rank 5 costs 9 SP (4+5+9). It helps to think of it as buying each rank one after the other, and each rank costs the new total number of ranks in SP. When leveling up, extra skill points not spent can be saved for the next level if the remaining skill points are too low to buy 1 more rank in the highest skill. Otherwise they must be spent.
I wouldn't NEED to set the cap at 10 ranks, but it costs 55 SP to go from 1-10, so much higher than that sounds a bit far fetched.
If you assign target DC's for CR appropriate things based on that cap it should work fine, but if you don't apply it at both ends it would skew.
if you want to promote characters spreading their ranks into multiple other lower-ranked skills,
then just design NPCs like that, and just tell players to design their PCs like that.
no juggling big numbers or futzing around with open heart surgery on the skills system required.
it matters for flat (non-opposed roll) DCs/ DC modifiers, which is really most skill checks.
the ones where flat DC doesn't scale high are the ones where people already won't put max ranks into, e.g. swim.
plenty of knowledge checks can have high DCs. craft checks certainly care.
mounted combat ride checks or acrobatics checks vs attack roll/CMD or bluff vs. CMD.
fly checks for poor maneuverability flyers.
it's more like you can determine the few specific skills where the DCs DON'T scale high and/or can't be affected by flat modifiers.
Well the problem with not putting tons into specific skills is the opposed skill check. Perceptions vs stealth for instance. Yeah, stealth doesn't work all that well, but perception can help you find the general area of an invisible creature. A +20 stealth bonus if they are moving, and +40 if they aren't. 10 ranks isn't going to be of much help even if the opponent biffs the roll.
Also there is the problem of huge negative modifiers. Like swimming while wearing armor. Attempting this without max ranks is a good way to try to breath water without gills. Most characters will take far too long taking their full plate off than they can hold their breath, and once you can't hold your breath you aren't long for the world.
Then there is the knowledge skills. The DC for knowing a monster is tied to its HD. Some monsters have much more than 10 HD. Those are the ones you REALLY need to know the weakness of.
Acrobatics for tumbling iirc is tied to the enemy CMD. Some monsters that you really want to get around have huge CMDs.
So in my humble opinion I have 2 suggestions. First one is not to do this, as the system is designed to work as is, changing things is likely going to need a complete rebuild of everything that touches the skill system. Which is every monster, npc, spell, combat rule, enviroment rule, and actually, its basicly going to require a complete line by line review of everything that you are going to include in the game, and all of the options that the players could use, but decide against even. So in short its a terrible idea and you should not do it.
The second thing is this is in the wrong forum, post to houserules/suggestion/homebrew and not the advice forum.
There are a few skills that scale past 10 ranks: Acrobatics (to avoid attacks of opportunity; DC is the opponent's CMD, 5 + CMD to move through their space), Disable Device (a superior lock costs 150 gp and has a DC of 40, not to mention magical traps), Intimidate (DC 10 + HD + Wis mod), Knowledge (DC 10 + the monster's CR to identify/know powers and vulnerabilities), Perform (for bards using Countersong or Distraction), Ride (to negate hits on mount with Mounted Combat; DC = attack roll), and Use Magic Device (for high level scrolls; DC 20 + caster level).
Most others don't need more than 10 ranks (especially if capping skills that use opposed rolls); some only need 5 at most: Appraise (a +5 total check modifier and you can take 20 to identify the value of most items), Craft (only need a +8 total check modifier from ranks, class skill bonus, Int mod, and other bonuses, plus masterwork tools to create masterwork items by taking 10), and Survival (other than tracking).
Bluff: +5 to -20 flat modifiers to Lie vs. Sense Motive, Feint vs. 10+BAB+WIS.
Craft: how fast you complete a job makes high ranks very relevant for expensive items, as well as determining how much you earn in a week using more abstracted approach, and composite bows can have very high DCs.
Diplomacy: DCs can easily reach 30 or more, with further potential modifiers
Disable Device: DCs reach to 40
Disguise: opposed check with up to +20 effective DC increase between mods to Disguise and the other party's Perception (not even counting Scent bonus or anything not mentioned in skill itself)
Escape Artist: Vs. CMD, CMB+20 (Rope), or 35 (MW Manacles)
Fly: DCs reach 25, wind penalties up to -16, size penalties up to -8, other penalties may apply
I can't do any more, gotta go...
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sk8r_dan_man,
if you are serious about implementing this system, i recommend reconfiguring your entire skill paradigm into a Two-Tier Tree/Branch Access System (TTTBAS or 3T-BAS?).
this actually wouldn't be as crazy as it sounds.
if you are familiar with 3.5, you will notice that certain (Branch) skills were rolled into broader (Tree) skills, namely:
Acrobatics (Balance, Jump, Tumble)
Diplomacy (Diplomacy, Gather Information)
Disable Device (Disable Device, Open Lock)
Linguistics (Decipher Script, Forgery, Speak Language)
Perception (Listen, Search, Spot)
Stealth (Hide, Move Silently)
what you can do here is both to unravel and re-knot skill groups; keeping in your game both versions, the Tree skills (which comprise many functions), and the Branch skills (which comprise more narrow functions), with the former skills being of a more restricted class-access
so, a Rogue has Stealth as a class skill, and can put ranks in it to sneak around. But a Cleric must put ranks in both Hide and Move Silently, and uses the worst of those two to function as his 'stealth' roll (unless there are only auditory or visual components to the sneak).
a Monk, with Perception skill trained, can attempt to perceive the sneaking Rogue and Cleric, but his Alchemist friend, who has ranks in the class skill Listen and Spot, must use the worst of those two to function as his 'perception' check.
the difference here is the level of investment. this allows more skill-inclined classes, under your 1-2-3 escalating point-rank investment system, to not be left behind in utility in name of the 'realism' your proposed system more or less tries to invoke.
finally, you can create new Trees and grant these Tree-skills to classes that ought to have them thematically, for example:
Athletics (Climb, Jump, Swim)
Deception (Acting, Bluff, Disguise)
Dweomercraft (Arcana, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device)
Streetwise (Gather Information, Local, Sense Motive)
eh?
Unless I misunderstand, you'll never have anyone get this high!
Think about it - if going from 9 to 10 requires 10 ranks, then really only rogues (since even bards, rangers, and the like are unlikely to have an 18 in Intelligence, though not impossible) are going to be able to save up 10 skill points in a single level. Being able to save skill points only when you can't use them really doesn't help... because there's a near infinite number of professions. The fighter who wanted to get the 10th rank of intimidate? Too bad, he had to take the first ranks of craft: basketweaving and profession: accountant.
Unless I misunderstand, you'll never have anyone get this high!
Think about it - if going from 9 to 10 requires 10 ranks, then really only rogues (since even bards, rangers, and the like are unlikely to have an 18 in Intelligence, though not impossible) are going to be able to save up 10 skill points in a single level. Being able to save skill points only when you can't use them really doesn't help... because there's a near infinite number of professions. The fighter who wanted to get the 10th rank of intimidate? Too bad, he had to take the first ranks of craft: basketweaving and profession: accountant.
Players would gain additional SP each level equal to their new level, so getting the 55 SP necessary to get a skill to 10 wouldn't be as impossible as you seem to think.
By lvl 20 a fighter with 10 intelligence would have 250 SP to spend, or enough to get 4 skills to 10, and have 30 SP left in other skills.
A Rogue with 18 intelligence would have 450 SP by level 20, which is enough to get 8 skills to 10, and have 10 SP left in other skills.
You also misunderstand the purpose of when you can't save skill points.
When leveling up, extra skill points not spent can be saved for the next level if the remaining skill points are too low to buy 1 more rank in the highest skill. Otherwise they must be spent.
If you have your highest skill at rank 6, but you only have 6 or fewer SP left to spend at this level, then you can save those SP for the next level (you don't have to spend them on lower skills). However, if you had 7 or more SP left to spend, then you would have to spend at least some of them until you had fewer than you'd need to buy another rank in your highest skill.
Unless I misunderstand, you'll never have anyone get this high!
Think about it - if going from 9 to 10 requires 10 ranks, then really only rogues (since even bards, rangers, and the like are unlikely to have an 18 in Intelligence, though not impossible) are going to be able to save up 10 skill points in a single level. Being able to save skill points only when you can't use them really doesn't help... because there's a near infinite number of professions. The fighter who wanted to get the 10th rank of intimidate? Too bad, he had to take the first ranks of craft: basketweaving and profession: accountant.Players would gain additional SP each level equal to their new level, so getting the 55 SP necessary to get a skill to 10 wouldn't be as impossible as you seem to think.
By lvl 20 a fighter with 10 intelligence would have 250 SP to spend, or enough to get 4 skills to 10, and have 30 SP left in other skills.
A Rogue with 18 intelligence would have 450 SP by level 20, which is enough to get 8 skills to 10, and have 10 SP left in other skills.
You also misunderstand the purpose of when you can't save skill points.
When leveling up, extra skill points not spent can be saved for the next level if the remaining skill points are too low to buy 1 more rank in the highest skill. Otherwise they must be spent.If you have your highest skill at rank 6, but you only have 6 or fewer SP left to spend at this level, then you can save those SP for the next level (you don't have to spend them on lower skills). However, if you had 7 or more SP left to spend, then you would have to spend at least some of them until you had fewer than you'd need to buy another rank in your highest skill.
Ah, yep. Sorry - I misread your saving point rules.