Player Companions: What's Next?


Pathfinder Player Companion

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Shadow Lodge

Friendlyfish wrote:
Since so many adventures have Mythos elements in them, how about something giving character options for mythos themed characters? Id love to see an aberrant summoner ala the 3.5 alienist make a reappearance in pathfinder.

I unfortunately cannot help you with paizo created content but Legendary games has done a literal TON of content in the vein. Check out the stuff from their Gothic Horrors line, especially the Beyond the Void supplement.

Other then that though I'm totally with you and want to see Paizo start putting some extra love into a product focused specifically on Mythos content.

Dark Archive

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Stuff about Galt, please, Patrick.

Vive la Revolution.

Swashbuckler archetypes, guillotines, Scarlet Pimpernel, a Bastille-like prison, and Marie-Antoinette's toy farm. All of that sort of thing, please.

However, given recent Adventure Paths (Wrath of the Righteous is about the Worldwound and Demons, Mummy's Mask is about Pharoahs and liches, Iron Gods is about robots and barbarians... From Space) we might be getting a more 'down to earth' adventure as Paizo like to balance things.

Therefore, why not Galt? It's quite relatable and it would allow for a heady campaign of political intrigue. Plus, because it isn't an exact historical analogue, it can have semi-related signifiers in the setting, like musketeers or Bolshevik revolutionaries.

I like the idea of calling it something like Fraternité, ou la Mort! (Fraternity or Death!), a variant on the famous tripartite motto.


Scientists of Golarion : How wizards make new spells, improve on some effects. Druids as biologists and ecologists. Planar travel. Life in the various universities. Life as an apprentice. Tools of Archeology.

Lawmen of Golarion : Options for bards, fighters, rogues and rangers themed around police procedurals an crime investigation. Tools of the trade.

Criminals of Golarion : Options themed around criminal activity, a sample thieves guild, various mob-like organisation. Government Corruption.

Country Origins : A book centered around the traditionnal farmer origin, with a sample rural village for elves, humans, halfling and dwarves.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh no, farmer saves the world again.
If you do that, please incorporate a very big company suppressing farmers, forcing them to only use their demon-influenced (maybe daimon, pestilence stuff) grain and some poison to protect it from (celestial-)insects who want to eat it. The farmes then have to organize an uprising. Or perhaps devil governed Cheliax comes to help.

Or instead: Blood of the FOX!
Localized Kitsune all over Golarion!

Verdant Wheel

Blood of the Stars, about the alien races of the Golarion star system (elves included).

Slaver's of the Inner Sea, about the slave empires and how to combat their agents.

Passions of Golarion, about romance and love among golarion people.

Asylium Handbook, about crazy people and how to deal with them.

Plant Archive, animal archive for the plant inclined (expanded herbalism and druidism)

Crafter Table, a book about everything crafttable, alternative crafting rules.

Verdant Wheel

Forgot about Circus of Golarion, a book about traveling performers, jesters, magicians, clowns and acrobata and how they survive on the roads.


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Hayato Ken wrote:

Or instead: Blood of the FOX!

Localized Kitsune all over Golarion!

It wouldn't be a page of the Next Player Companions thread if someone didn't ask for a book on Kitsune ;)

Scarab Sages

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Sex of Golarion, by Zarta Dralneen.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Zarta would never use such a captious word. One might get the impression you are not acquainted with her and gathered your knowledge through rumors^^


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

"Blood Of The Coven" (a book about changelings) is being tossed about in the "Bastards Of Golarion" thread, so I thought I'd mention it here.

As in pleasepleasepleasepleasePLEASE make this book.

Silver Crusade

Blood of the Fox!!

Also I'd like to see a regional look at Alkenstar to get a bit of steampunky goodness but with Wardens of the Reborn Forge already out I guess that's a bit of a loss.


Well, I think Paizo has to look at this from a business standpoint. What is going to give a return on the investment? The good news is that they don't just look at the business standpoint, which is one of the things I like about Paizo - they're gamers who want to make a good product. They undersstand they can't afford financially hurt themselves in the process.

While there is a lot of kitsune love, and a lot of catfolk love, could these be (prepare for flame war) - vocal minorities (clutches head and cowers)???

I think Feral Folk of Golarion would be a good book - concentrating on Kitsune, Catfolk and Tengu. A little love could be given to Grippli, Vanara and Nagaji. I would love the opportunity to write for it. There is more than enough fan base, I believe, for a book like this.

To mesh with the Numeria release, I would suspect that a players guide to Numeria is on the way, perhaps bundled with a constructs of Golarion theme, or perhaps People of Dark Technology - a book concentrating on Android characters, as well as options to be ex-members of the technic league or tech-scavengers.

Blood of the Genie is likely to happen - there is a lot of interest in the 5 genieblooded races. I look forward to this book, both for character options and ideas about the cultures involved.

for next Halloween, I hope to see Blood of Hags A book with options for changelings, as well as hag information and background, with options for hag-touched cursed individuals, and advice about dealing with them. Changeling templates for different hags would be presented, as well as information about changelings from other races.

Scarab Sages

Lava Child wrote:

Well, I think Paizo has to look at this from a business standpoint. What is going to give a return on the investment? The good news is that they don't just look at the business standpoint, which is one of the things I like about Paizo - they're gamers who want to make a good product. They undersstand they can't afford financially hurt themselves in the process.

I had a somewhat heartbreaking private conversation with Sean K. Reynolds that suggests that the "business standpoint" has more sway at Paizo than you might think - too much. The "business standpoint" is stupid and destructive because it's run by people who can't see past the next few quarterly earnings. Rather than deliver a sermon on the subject, let me just say: They (like all companies who don't) should embrace something like the Japanese concept of "patient capital:" Doing what's good in the long run even if it means they might earn less over the next few quarters (which it often does). This might also be called The Marshmallow Test. Nobody likes bean-counters who put business before art; just as you say, we're gamers who want them to make great works of art. If Paizo were to invest in more risky, out-there, and creative endeavors and give more of us what we wanted, they might well make less money in the short term, but they'd earn something you whose value you can never quantify on: a reputation as the company that views its customers as far more than just statistics and cares more about making a great game (which is the only reason people give them money) than allowing clueless accountants and marketeers to call the shots, which ALWAYS kills those who submit to it in the long run (and Paizo should know this better than anyone - it's why Pathfinder not only exists, but actually managed to beat 4E - did Wizards of the Coast's marketing department see that coming? Obviously not). There's a chance that their customer base would become a little smaller, but unlike the fickle and clueless masses of whom many would just as soon play PopCap Games as Pathfinder that the other strategy pursues and inevitably loses (and with them, everything), catering to real gamers would get them a loyal, grateful, and sustainable customer base. It would work kind of like this.

"The best way to make money in business is not to think too much about making it." - Henry "I F~%+ing Built The World's Greatest Economy" Ford

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm sure the citizens of Detroit could have a word or two with Henry Ford about how that long-term business-building part goes.

Scarab Sages

If you believe that's a valid counter-argument, you have a LOOOOOT to learn about the intervening history. Ford's policies are a large part of what made the 20th Century "The American Century" - what's become of Detroit (and much of the rest of the world) now is because those policies and values were abandoned in favor of going back to the 19th Century. The story's eerily similar to the plot of Back to the Future - one future was built where things were better, smarter, and happier, but embittered bullies who had been in charge but were now viewed as despised holdovers from a worse time, used dirty tricks to rewrite history into a timeline where they got everything they wanted at the expense of everyone and everything else (the fact that those movies were made in the 1980s, when this paradigm shift was being implemented can only be described as "spooky" - could this have been an intentional subtext?).

Liberty's Edge

Lava Child wrote:
To mesh with the Numeria release, I would suspect that a players guide to Numeria is on the way, perhaps bundled with a constructs of Golarion theme, or perhaps People of Dark Technology - a book concentrating on Android characters

People of the River

However, I am REALLY REALLY hoping for an Androids of Golarion, or Blood of Machines.

Lava Child wrote:
Blood of the Genie is likely to happen - there is a lot of interest in the 5 genieblooded races. I look forward to this book, both for character options and ideas about the cultures involved.

Blood of the Elements

Lava Child wrote:
I think Feral Folk of Golarion would be a good book - concentrating on Kitsune, Catfolk and Tengu. A little love could be given to Grippli, Vanara and Nagaji.

I've been a big proponent of a "Blood of the Beasts" book, but in the last month or so, I've started to wonder if that might not be cramming too much stuff into one Companion. 32 pages minus some general pages would give a three-race book something like 8-9 pages each, and with a four-race book something like 6-7 pages each.

Catfolk, Tengu and Ratfolk in specific got six-page treatments already in the Advanced Race Guide, and I have to wonder how much more you can do with another six-page treatment that would have to cover some of the same stuff. Is it worth doing if you can't do significantly more than you already have?

Plus, if you do "Blood of the Beasts", what do you include and what don't you include? There's so many animal races. Catfolk, Ratfolk, Tengus, Gillmen, Gripplis, Kitsune, Nagaji, Vanara...one 32-page Companion with all of them would barely have any room to say anything about any one race, so do you actually make it a series of Companions like "Faiths of..." divided into three volumes? Or would you just cut your losses and leave some races out entirely? And what about introducing new variants, like most of the "Blood of" books have done so far -- you need room for that too.

Personally I think the aasimar/tiefling books were the gold standard for the "Blood of" series. They had one race each, and were able to provide *significantly* more depth to each one by not splitting focus. Lots of fluff, lots of alternate racial features, lots of subraces. On the other hand there's something like the vampire book, where dhampirs (the actual PLAYER race of vampire flavor) get basically four subraces and two traits, and that's friggin' it. Tieflings got more pages of subraces than dhampirs got total. Makes me want to cry at the wasted opportunity for a PLAYER companion.

Nowadays I'm inclined to think that ARG "Featured races" (six-page treatments) should get full Player Companions with the full 32 pages devoted to them, otherwise it's just not a significant upgrade. I could see the "Uncommon races" (two-page treatments) like Gillmen, Gripplis, Kitsune and Vanara given a combined book since that would be a significant upgrade for them, bringing them essentially to "Featured races" status with six-page writeups. (Although I of course wouldn't mind if each of those got their own books either.)

Having said that, Blood of the Elements has four six-page races and one two-page race, for a total of 26 pages that the ARG has already given the geniekin...so that wouldn't be a significant upgrade in pages either, so Paizo probably doesn't think my way.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

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How about a book on Laws and Lawmen? Or Crime and Punishment? You could talk what acts are legal in different nations, what the punishments are, everything from prison to the stocks to branding. Maybe a bit about judicial systems and where you can get a trial. You could detail law enforcement agencies (city constables, Old West style marshals), investigators (Inspector Javert or Sherlock Holmes), thief-takers, bounty hunters, and also some criminal organizations, information on dealing in stolen property, how to find forged documents, illegal goods and services, etc. You could detail good-aligned outlaw organizations like the Bellflower Network or various resistance movements.


Samy wrote:
Lava Child wrote:
To mesh with the Numeria release, I would suspect that a players guide to Numeria is on the way, perhaps bundled with a constructs of Golarion theme, or perhaps People of Dark Technology - a book concentrating on Android characters

People of the River

However, I am REALLY REALLY hoping for an Androids of Golarion, or Blood of Machines.

Lava Child wrote:
Blood of the Genie is likely to happen - there is a lot of interest in the 5 genieblooded races. I look forward to this book, both for character options and ideas about the cultures involved.

Blood of the Elements

Lava Child wrote:
I think Feral Folk of Golarion would be a good book - concentrating on Kitsune, Catfolk and Tengu. A little love could be given to Grippli, Vanara and Nagaji.

I've been a big proponent of a "Blood of the Beasts" book, but in the last month or so, I've started to wonder if that might not be cramming too much stuff into one Companion. 32 pages minus some general pages would give a three-race book something like 8-9 pages each, and with a four-race book something like 6-7 pages each.

Catfolk, Tengu and Ratfolk in specific got six-page treatments already in the Advanced Race Guide, and I have to wonder how much more you can do with another six-page treatment that would have to cover some of the same stuff. Is it worth doing if you can't do significantly more than you already have?

Plus, if you do "Blood of the Beasts", what do you include and what don't you include? There's so many animal races. Catfolk, Ratfolk, Tengus, Gillmen, Gripplis, Kitsune, Nagaji, Vanara...one 32-page Companion with all of them would barely have any room to say anything about any one race, so do you actually make it a series of Companions like "Faiths of..." divided into three volumes? Or would you just cut your losses and leave some races out entirely? And what about introducing...

Blood of Elements is a thing now? A thousand huzzahs! Maybe we'll get some gena- geniekin origins based on other elemental beings.

Also, Blood of Beasts/The Wild/whatever would be pretty cool. Maybe it'd be a chance to give us Mystara fans some new additions like the Lupins, as they have been homebrewed and brought up every now and then... despite being a cliche balance to catfolk like tieflings are to aasimar. Maybe while we're at it something like Tortles... with a racial bonus in the ninja class! (Sorry, way too easy.) We already have Rakasta, more or less.

Scarab Sages

Blood of Shadow, I'm telling you. I'm pretty sure Golarion's the first campaign setting in fantasy gaming history to make Indonesian shadow-puppets into a PC race; that distinction alone should be incentive to expand on them.

@Doctor Necrotic: "Lupins" are a flower, more likely to be found being redistributed from the haves to the have-nots by a good-hearted but strangely selective and low-aiming highwayman than as a PC race.

Oh, you want "dog people" to counterbalance the "cat people?" We've got a better breed (no pun intended) for that, they're called Cynocephaly.


I'd also love a Blood of Shadow book covering Fetchlings and Wayangs.
Of course it should come as no surprise then that I'd also like to see a book on Nidal.

As much as I like the idea of the various Feral Folk books, I think I'm inclined to agree with Samy. Even if they were split by region (if I recall grippli and catfolk are more flavored for Garund while kitsune and nagaji--and I'd stay tengu as well--are more of a Tien flavor) it may be a bit too much for one book to give any new in-depth info for each race. And that's not even including ratfolk.

I'd also like to see something akin to Champions of Purity/Balance but along the chaos/order spectrum.

I'd also like a book to introduced some planetouched PC races from the neutral planes


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
If Paizo were to invest in more risky, out-there, and creative endeavors and give more of us what we wanted, they might well make less money in the short term, but they'd earn something you whose value you can never quantify on: a reputation as the company that views its customers as far more than just statistics and cares more about making a great game (which is the only reason people give them money) than allowing clueless accountants and marketeers to call the shots, which ALWAYS kills those who submit to it in the long run (and Paizo should know this better than anyone - it's why Pathfinder not only exists, but actually managed to beat 4E - did Wizards of the Coast's marketing department see that coming? Obviously not). There's a chance that their customer base would...

Both are controversial standpoints. You can't charge people for stuff they don't want and expect to make them happy. If a product won't make money... then it shouldn't be made. If there are a few fringe players who REALLY want to play as... I don't know, Oozes or something... It sucks but thems the breaks. Unless MOST people want it... then it shouldn't be sold.

Mattel has a few subscription based lines right now that have been seriously padded with fringe stuff that few people want that has put the whole line in jeopardy and infuriated the fans who only see the desired stuff put off for years as 'hostages'.

They are NOT getting the kind of reputation you claim they would...

If Paizo is going to tie in a lot of these books with subscription services... they have to keep being loved and desired products. If as you say, 'they give more of what we wanted' then we would buy it and they would NOT lose money in the short term.

It's only when they publish things that they THINK people wanted but really didn't that it'll come back to bite them ;)

Scarab Sages

phantom1592 wrote:

Both are controversial standpoints. You can't charge people for stuff they don't want and expect to make them happy. If a product won't make money... then it shouldn't be made. If there are a few fringe players who REALLY want to play as... I don't know, Oozes or something... It sucks but thems the breaks. Unless MOST people want it... then it shouldn't be sold.

Mattel has a few subscription based lines right now that have been seriously padded with fringe stuff that few people want that has put the whole line in jeopardy and infuriated the fans who only see the desired stuff put off for years as 'hostages'.

They are NOT getting the kind of reputation you claim they would...

If Paizo is going to tie in a lot of these books with subscription services... they have to keep being loved and desired products. If as you say, 'they give more of what we wanted' then we would buy it and they would NOT lose money in the short term.

1. Regarding Mattel: I don't know what they're up to, but if people are getting mad at them because they're weighing down a "subscription" system with stuff people don't want and holding back on what they do, then they're not doing ANYTHING REMOTELY like what I'm suggesting. I never said anything about "subscriptions" - I'm operating on the assumption of the traditional "a la carte" model, in which there is much more freedom, and has always worked for the gaming industry up to this point (and when I think "subscription," the first thing I think of, of course, is magazines, so my question would be: Have MAD and National Geographic ever faced the problems you say Mattel is facing, or is Mattel doing something wrong, or is there some fundamental difference between magazines and whatever Mattel is pushing, and even so, is there something they could learn?).

2. If you expect a smaller audience, you publish a proportionately smaller quantity of books - you even aim low, and if demand exceeds expectations, you publish more posthaste. It's simple.

Kage_no_Oukami wrote:


I'd also like to see something akin to Champions of Purity/Balance but along the chaos/order spectrum.

I'd also like a book to introduced some planetouched PC races from the neutral planes

SECONDED X 2. I've wanted the former ever since 3.0's Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds. The DM at my game this week was reflecting on his desire for a "Neutral" template to go with "Celestial/Fiendish/Resolute/Anarchic."


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

1. Regarding Mattel: I don't know what they're up to, but if people are getting mad at them because they're weighing down a "subscription" system with stuff people don't want and holding back on what they do, then they're not doing ANYTHING REMOTELY like what I'm suggesting. I never said anything about "subscriptions" - I'm operating on the assumption of the traditional "a la carte" model, in which there is much more freedom, and has always worked for the gaming industry up to this point (and when I think "subscription," the first thing I think of, of course, is magazines, so my question would be: Have MAD and National Geographic ever faced the problems you say Mattel is facing, or is Mattel doing something wrong, or is there some fundamental difference between magazines and whatever Mattel is pushing, and even so, is there something they could learn?).

2. If you expect a smaller audience, you publish a proportionately smaller quantity of books - you even aim low, and if demand exceeds expectations, you publish more posthaste. It's simple....

1) http://paizo.com/products/btpy88qu?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Subscription Just saying... Paizo does do things like this. I just saw a thread about people complaining that the Character Folio was included in one of the subscriptions...

2) It's usually cheaper for the factory to make LOTS of stuff then it is for them to only do a small run. NOT sure how Paizo's deals work of course, but in other industries that's one of the downfalls. They have healthy sized 'minimum runs' that need to be done. That's what the bean counters do. If they print too much and it won't sell... they lose money. If they don't make enough, and have to turn on the machines again.... they lose money

Scarab Sages

phantom1592 wrote:


1) http://paizo.com/products/btpy88qu?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Subscription Just saying... Paizo does do things like this. I just saw a thread about people complaining that the Character Folio was included in one of the subscriptions...

If something was included in a subscription program that promised a specific limited line of material that clearly shouldn't have been, I can see people complaining. However, if you knowingly sign up for "EVERYTHING We Print," it's completely unreasonable to complain when you get exactly that - or even if you chose an option that doesn't go that far, but isn't too specific about what it's committing to offer, it would be like if I subscribed to MAD magazine and complained because one particular issue was a letdown. To put it another way:

"JENKINS sends a criticism of last month's issue to the Letters & Tomatoes Dept - he wouldn't be subscribing if he didn't love the magazine, and wouldn't bother to write a letter of criticism if he wasn't confident it could do better."

"MELVIN liked the movie parody in last month's issue, but nothing else, so he demands a full refund."

I reiterate my previous statement that applying the subscription system to tabletop gaming might turn out to be a mistake, or at least it's a mistake to lean on it too heavily.

phantom1592 wrote:


2) It's usually cheaper for the factory to make LOTS of stuff then it is for them to only do a small run. NOT sure how Paizo's deals work of course, but in other industries that's one of the downfalls. They have healthy sized 'minimum runs' that need to be done. That's what the bean counters do. If they print too much and it won't sell... they lose money. If they don't make enough, and have to turn on the machines again.... they lose money

I believe this is covered by my original statement - if this cost them money in the short-term, it would be a long-term investment in something more valuable than money: The sincere loyalty of a higher class of player base that would provide steady business for so long as they put quality first - as opposed to, say, people who whine about signing up for everything Paizo prints and getting exactly that. If they're actually willing to walk away just for that, then they're too fickle to be worth catering to anyways.

Also, Paizo appears to have already experienced this - Cheliax: Empire of Devils and Elves of Golarion were two of their earliest Pathfinder books, and there came a point where, well, res ipsa loquitur, they were selling on amazon.com for THOUSANDS of US$. Anyways, Paizo's done swell since then, and Cheliax: Empire of Devils has since come back in print.

Contributor

As a huge fan of kitsune, I do not want to see Blood of the Beast. The common elements between "animal-like races" are not strong enough to warrant a ton of them being smashed into a single book and if they were, I'm sure it would end up looking like the last page of Bastards of Golarion where nothing really new was said about or provided for each race.


Alexander Augunas wrote:

As a huge fan of kitsune, I do not want to see Blood of the Beast. The common elements between "animal-like races" are not strong enough to warrant a ton of them being smashed into a single book and if they were, I'm sure it would end up looking like the last page of Bastards of Golarion where nothing really new was said about or provided for each race.

I have to agree with this. It seems that in order to get good info on a race, something as small as these player companion books needs to be at least half way focused on it.


I would like a dragon empire world guide hard cover with information on the races like Kitsune and Tengu included.

Races of the Dragon Empires is the one I see being made on the Player Companion line, probably with the next AP set there.

Silver Crusade

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I would love to see a Survivalist Handbook (which would focus on wilderness encounters/options/stuff)

or a

Blood of the Ancients (which would offer various human options via bloodlines with strong Azlant, Shory, or Thassilon, ancient Osirion heritages). It could even offer some options for the half human races (half-elf, Half-orc, tiefling, aasimer, ifrit, etc.) I would like to see some lost prestige class options or archetype options in this book that a group could introduce in various ways (finding lost lore, reincarnated ancients, “awakening” to forgotten information, etc)....maybe even Celwynvian influence for elves and half-elves.....


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Kitsune really deserve more attention on their own. Some other races like Tengu too. Actually i would say each could eventually have it´s own player companion.

What would be an option is to revisit halflings again, and maybe gnomes.
Those books are already a bit "old" and they could use some more flavor again.


I'd just like to say that I would love to see the Player's Companion line slow down. Having covered most of the important races, alignments, gods, and locations (less so), a slower pace would be much more manageable. For reasons of budget, reading time, and development time.

Scarab Sages

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mswbear wrote:


Blood of the Ancients (which would offer various human options via bloodlines with strong Azlant, Shory, or Thassilon, ancient Osirion heritages). It could even offer some options for the half human races (half-elf, Half-orc, tiefling, aasimer, ifrit, etc.) I would like to see some lost prestige class options or archetype options in this book that a group could introduce in various ways (finding lost lore, reincarnated ancients, “awakening” to forgotten information, etc)....maybe even Celwynvian influence for elves and half-elves.....

Liking it, liking it....

Hayato Ken wrote:

What would be an option is to revisit halflings again, and maybe gnomes.
Those books are already a bit "old" and they could use some more flavor again.

What about Elves? If anything's going to be re-printed and updated, this NEEDS it - if you have a copy (and if you actually have a book, you're either an early-riser, lucky, or a rich fool), you'll see it's stuck in 3.5 mode.

Now I'll add something: "Companion Companions" to Distant Worlds and The Great Beyond (both fantastic - I highly recommend them) that add PC options (feats, spells, goofy items, Archetypes, class feature options, prestige classes - the usual suspects) based on the planets and planes that they can put to good use even if they never leave Golarion.


Draco Bahamut wrote:
Forgot about Circus of Golarion, a book about traveling performers, jesters, magicians, clowns and acrobata and how they survive on the roads.

+1


Blood of the Circus.

People of the Circus.

Circuses of Golarion.

Circus Handbook.

Clown of Golarion. Just to mess with James Jacobs !

Contributor

C. Nutcase wrote:

Blood of the Circus.

People of the Circus.

Circuses of Golarion.

Circus Handbook.

Clown of Golarion. Just to mess with James Jacobs !

Every piece of artwork will feature the Iconic Rogue brutally eviscerating a clown.

Dark Archive

I would like to see more Location books with content on organizations.


Conjuration Handbook- new summoning opportunities and ways for
non-spellcasters to summon monsters


ulgulanoth wrote:
Patrick Renie wrote:
ulgulanoth wrote:

I would like to see "Necromancer's Handbook"; looking into all the aspects of raising the dead, using deadly magic, how others look at necromancers throughout the inner sea, ect

By any chance do you see this Necromancer's Handbook as a sort of foil to the Undead Slayer's Handbook? While the two are not necessarily diametrically opposed, I can see such a volume being the "evil version" of the Slayer's Handbook in some ways. Or would you rather it be tackled in a completely different manner? (I know it's hard to say without seeing the Undead Slayer's Handbook first, but right now I'm just wondering based on theme and concept what you had in mind.)
Maybe, though not necessarily an evil version, who says all necromancers are evil, there might be a few neutral ones out there...

What about a good version of a necromancer? at first this might seem paradoxical, but if we knew a little more about how necromancy works, it may be possible. For example, rather than take peoples bodies and souls and enslave them or turn them into blasphemous puppets, the good version ASKS first?

What if he could summon the spirits of good souls back to the land of the living to fight the good fight for a while before retuning to the afterlife? I am sure that a number of fallen heros would jump at the chance to kick evil butt again.

Whats more, such a class could be considered to be the mortal enemy of evil necromancers (because the good ones would see the dead as long distance friends who are being enslaved by the evil ones.


Along the idea of a new "magic of X" line for unusual magic systems, I would really like to see magic powered by ones soul rather than ones blood or divine favors. we got a hint of this in Ultimate magic with the quingong monk, but I really think it could be expanded. I would love more magic based on Ki and will power. (right now, I am relying on multiclassing a lvl in monk with a magus to achieve something approaching this). Call it Divergent magic: Burning Spirit

In general actually, I would like a few more "anime" style powers such as an energy slash and a Hadoken. It would also give non caster classes a little access to supernatural abilities.

Another unusual magic system I would like to second is the whole "magic scientist" thing. I would love to see a "reality programer" who uses science, theory, and math to rewrite physics. call it Divergent Magic: the power of SCIENCE (maybe have the word "magic" crossed out on the cover for the fun of it. I am currently having fun in a campaign with a bunch of super religious characters by proclaiming I don't need gods when I can punch things in the face...WITH SCIENCE!)

I would also like to second the whole law enforcement idea. Too often adventurers make the police of the area look like incompetent morons. there should be options for a cop or a police inspector to get pulled into a bigger case than expected (aka an adventure) as a PC. Not to mention it is hard to play a lawful character when you do not, in fact, know what the law is (outside of religion of course). You could call it The Lawmans Handbook. (the inside intro could have in big bold letters: I fought the Law and the Law WON.)

concerning the idea of another prestige class book, if you must make prestige classes, can you power them up a bit? after all, you are not only subjecting yourself to the usual pitfalls of multiclassing, but you must also meet difficult prerequisites. I would much prefer the focus be on archtypes instead of prestige.

The time traveler thing could work as a sort of character class (once saw something called a time thief somewhere), but in terms of time traveling all over the place and alternate continuities, that is best left for when we run out of new things to get out of the current continuity. However, an ADVENTURE PATH centered around time travel could be interesting. have the party travel through time to other adventure paths and inadvertently set off events that help the adventurers of those other adventure paths.

Finally, I would like to see a book about half gnomes. considering the fact that the world contains halfling (who are really just short humans with a different culture) I would be very interested in a book about gnome/halfling hybrids. Actually, hybrids where one of the halfs is NOT human would make for a good entire line of books (blood of gnomes, blood of orcs, blood of elves, blood of dwarves, ect)

Silver Crusade

A lot of people want more kitsune options but honestly I think that there should be more options for all of the beast type races and maybe even a few more. Blood of the beast could cover all of the more animal type characters and even give some options for characters with close animal affinity like rangers and druids (and the up coming hunter).

Scarab Sages

C. Nutcase wrote:

Blood of the Circus.

People of the Circus.

Circuses of Golarion.

Circus Handbook.

Clown of Golarion. Just to mess with James Jacobs !

Years ago, I ran into a 3rd-party monster manual that featured Clowns as a type of very powerful Demon. Among their many other frightening powers (I think they could toss gooey pies that stuck to your face and suffocated you), they utilized the eggshell upon which they'd painted their face in a similar to Koschei the Deathless.

brightshadow360 wrote:

What about a good version of a necromancer? at first this might seem paradoxical, but if we knew a little more about how necromancy works, it may be possible. For example, rather than take peoples bodies and souls and enslave them or turn them into blasphemous puppets, the good version ASKS first?

You're making a BIG assumption here; where does it say any of that about necromancy in the first place? There's no reason in D&D/Pathfinder to think necromancy is a form of slavery - it's more like recycling. Even in 2nd Edition's Complete Book of Necromancers, in which the school of necromancy - the magic of life and death, nothing more, nothing less - is divided into "white," "black," and "grey" categories, the creation of undead is classified as the mainstay of "grey necromancy" (oh, and it makes a brief reference to psionics as "an interesting subtopic of necromancy"). The "Evil" connotations are more a legacy of the age-old "scary = Evil" mentality, as well as the concept of undeath being a metaphor for real-life phenomena (Emil Fackenheim to Anton LaVey are only two influential writers to invoke the image) which can, but need not, translate to fantasy.

brightshadow360 wrote:


In general actually, I would like a few more "anime" style powers such as an energy slash and a Hadoken. It would also give non caster classes a little access to supernatural abilities.

They did this at the close of 3.5 - it was called Tome of Battle: The Book of 9 Swords, and while it wasn't all bad (it provided ideas that would have been useful to a more ideal Ninja or an alternative Hexblade), it was basically the prototype for 4E.

brightshadow360 wrote:


I would love to see a "reality programer" [sic] who uses science, theory, and math to rewrite physics.

3.5's Tome of Magic introduced something like this - Truename Magic, which sort of allowed you to "hack" the cosmos by speaking its "source code" - sure, it came out rather poor as written, but its most serious problems can be traced to one or two DC formulae that are easily fixed.

brightshadow360 wrote:


...halfling (who are really just short humans with a different culture)...

I'm pretty sure this is 100% false.


We will get Champion of Corruption, so I'm not sure what to wish for next.

Golem Dismantlers Handbook?

Liberty's Edge

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Starfinder Superscriber

How about a Community Builder's Handbook (probably not a good title) that supports the building and organizations downtime system from Ultimate Campaign?


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
brightshadow360 wrote:

What about a good version of a necromancer? at first this might seem paradoxical, but if we knew a little more about how necromancy works, it may be possible. For example, rather than take peoples bodies and souls and enslave them or turn them into blasphemous puppets, the good version ASKS first?

You're making a BIG assumption here; where does it say any of that about necromancy in the first place? There's no reason in D&D/Pathfinder to think necromancy is a form of slavery - it's more like recycling. Even in 2nd Edition's Complete Book of Necromancers, in which the school of necromancy - the magic of life and death, nothing more, nothing less - is divided into "white," "black," and "grey" categories, the creation of undead is classified as the mainstay of "grey necromancy" (oh, and it makes a brief reference to psionics as "an interesting subtopic of necromancy"). The "Evil" connotations are more a legacy of the age-old "scary = Evil" mentality, as well as the concept of undeath being a metaphor for real-life phenomena (Emil Fackenheim to Anton LaVey are only two influential writers to invoke the image) which can, but need not, translate to fantasy.

brightshadow360 wrote:


In general actually, I would like a few more "anime" style powers such as an energy slash and a Hadoken. It would also give non caster
...

that’s why we need a handbook to tell us exactly what creating undead actually involves.

as for halflings being different species entirely, that is besides the point. the real point is that humans have all kinds of half breeds (half elf, half elemental, tieflings and asimars) but the other races don't. the other races should have cross breads too. it's an idea for another core book actually. Ultimate Races for detailing any number of cross breeds.

Shadow Lodge

Something else I'd like is a PG that focuses on <new> low level spells, especially ones that are more Deity specific/common on the divine side. Orisons with a few 1st and 2nd levels, too.

Weapon Combat Styles would be great, especially if A.) has nothing to do with Monks, B.) focuses on mostly common warriorly weapons <Longsword, Greatsword, Battleaxe, Heavy Mace/Flail, Sword & Board>, and not so much Exotic Weapons, & C.) has nothing to do with Proformance Combat/Teamwork Feats, (or, because it needs to be stressed, F'ing Monks).

Another thing that would be amazing would be for PF to introduce the 3.5 "Domain Devotion" and "Deity Initiate" Feats.

logic_poet wrote:
While I'm on a religious theme, something featuring looks at banned religions (Desna in Cheliax, Sarenrae in Taldor, clerics in Po Li, &c.) would be cool. Maybe call it Heresies & Inquisitions, or Martyrs & Mysteries.

I'd be down with that. Honestly, especially one that focuses on the huge issue of playing a divine character, but especially clerics in areas like Rahadoum, Hermea, Razmiran, and Touvette (and countless others), in a semi-long term capacity, (and from level 1 on). This is basically a must have before they should produce any adventure in those area that so many people have ask for.

Scarab Sages

brightshadow360 wrote:

that’s why we need a handbook to tell us exactly what creating undead actually involves.

Says who? Even Frankenstein (we're talking the original book, here) never actually went into what all he did to create his monster - he just went from reading Cornelius Agrippa and other ancient natural philosophers who had fallen out of fashion by the 19th Century as a med student to having some epiphany about electricity that sealed the deal, and everything in between is left to the imagination.

The question then, is: If we're going to ask about the finer points of necromancy, why not ask about other spells? How do fireballs and cure light wounds work?

This can be very fun and interesting for a specific campaign world, but stuff like what's in the Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat is obliged to be setting-agnostic (insofar as that's possible). A given spell can work one way in one setting, and totally differently in another, leading to radically different implications from there - to canonize one particular way on the level of detail you're talking about would set an undesirable, hand-tying precedent.

brightshadow360 wrote:


as for halflings being different species entirely, that is besides the point. the real point is that humans have all kinds of half breeds (half elf, half elemental, tieflings and asimars) but the other races don't. the other races should have cross breads too. it's an idea for another core book actually. Ultimate Races for detailing any number of cross breeds.

I'm sorry, I'm not overly keen on adventuring in the South Park universe ("Everything can breed with everything else!") - I don't even really like Half-Elves and Half-Orcs. Myth and legend does set a precedent for this concept ("changelings," "mooncalves," various leaders and heroes being descended from gods - I'll admit, the whole "Golarion's Elves are actually visitors from another planet hence Golarion's Half-Elves wind up being a wacky nod to 20th-Century UFO folklore"), but it should be a special, strange anomaly; it certainly shouldn't be ubiquitous.

What you might be looking for is a big book of templates - this has been done before, mainly by 3rd-party publishers, and they've come up with some good stuff. It's simply that these things have to be done right.


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not overly keen on adventuring in the South Park universe ("Everything can breed with everything else!") - I don't even really like Half-Elves and Half-Orcs. Myth and legend does set a precedent for this concept ("changelings," "mooncalves," various leaders and heroes being descended from gods - I'll admit, the whole "Golarion's Elves are actually visitors from...

What's wrong with dwelfs and dwalflings and dwomes and dworcs and dwumans? and gnelfs and gnoflings, gnumans and gnorcs? helflings and horclings?

They could title it Ultimate Orgy.

Contributor

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I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:


I'm sorry, I'm not overly keen on adventuring in the South Park universe ("Everything can breed with everything else!") - I don't even really like Half-Elves and Half-Orcs. Myth and legend does set a precedent for this concept ("changelings," "mooncalves," various leaders and heroes being descended from gods - I'll admit, the whole "Golarion's Elves are actually visitors from another planet hence Golarion's Half-Elves wind up being a wacky nod to 20th-Century UFO folklore"), but it should be a special, strange anomaly; it certainly shouldn't be ubiquitous.

One thing that you could do that could actually be really freaky / cool is treat half-elves like deep one hybrids from Lovecraft's Shadow over Innsmouth.

In Shadow Over Innsmouth, human/deep one hybrids looked exactly like humans for the first half of their life. When they reached middle age, their ears started to shrink away, their hairlines started to dramatically recede, and they started to grow scales and gain amphibious traits.

For a half-elf, they could look and grow up as humans for the first few decades of their lives with a noticably slowed aging process until, around 50 years of age, their ears started to sharpen, their body hair sloughs off, and their eyes started to grow and darken until they resemble elven eyes (WAR stype). As their minds become increasingly alien, they find themselves out-thinking humans and seek elven societies when they finally bore of their petty human kin.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
brightshadow360 wrote:
as for halflings being different species entirely, that is besides the point. the real point is that humans have all kinds of half breeds (half elf, half elemental, tieflings and aasimars) but the other races don't. the other races should have cross breads too. it's an idea for another core book actually. Ultimate Races for detailing any number of cross breeds.

Neither Aasimar nor Tieflings are 'half-breeds'. Both are examples of a parent or parents having latent potential for either a 'fiend-touched' or 'celestial-touched' offspring. Also, if you had actually read either Blood of Fiends or Blood of Angels, you would know that both Aasimar & Tieflings can & are born to races other than Humans, they are simply mechanically identical to human-born Aasimar & Tieflings, with the exception that those born to Small-sized races are Small-sized rather than Medium sized.


I'll also throw in my vote for a "Blood of the Coven" book about Changelings, including new Changeling variants (Blood, Winter, etc.).

Wouldn't mind seeing books about the Proteans and Inevitables either, especially if we could get Law/Chaos Planetouched PC races out of it.


Maybe a 'lord of the realms' companion. Designed to support the various roles a PC can take in a Kingdom (from Ultimate Campaign). The support could include setting specific support inspired by various locales. I'm thinking the book could flesh out ways to differentiate between a spymaster in Galt and Cheliax (for example). Maybe a better name could be 'Lords of Golarion'?

I would also like to see 'Rulers of the Inner Sea' giving setting specific details about these roles for various countries around Avistan, but that may belong in another thread.

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