City of Brass - Can we hope for a Mythic Pathfinder update?


Product Discussion


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Take a ride with me, my friends, on Doctor Johnny Fever's mysterious Way Back Machine! It was the summer of 2007 (or thereabouts, the Doctor's memory starts to get fuzzy after the 3rd 7&7), the housing market was getting ready to go belly up, the twin wars of Iraq and Afghanistan were raging full force, and RPGer's were only starting to come to grips with the end of Dungeon and Dragon magazines. It was pretty sad times.

There was, however, a bright spot of hope in all that doom and gloom. Necromancer Games released the amazing City of Brass boxed set at Gen Con that year, and it was good. Really good. It finally fleshed out the mythic (hold onto that word, you'll need it later) city at which the cover of the 1st edition Dungeon Master's Guide had only hinted.

Not only did it provide a massive overview of the city itself, the surrounding environs, and the many incredible beings that could be encountered there, it also presented a full campaign that could, possibly, result in an encounter between the PCs and the Sultan of the Efreet himself!!! DUHN DUHN DUHN!

Needless to say, that campaign ended up being pretty epic. Not just in the traditional 'holy smokes, it's the Avengers vs. the Justice League!' epic, either. It was epic in the DnD 3.5 level 21+ sense also.

You see, the Sultan and many in his court were such powerful beings that, in order to really stand a chance against them, ordinary PCs just weren't going to cut it...not even level 20 PCs. So, add in a dash of the DnD 3.5 Epic Level Handbook (yes, let's be honest, even with all of its warts...I'm looking at you, epic level spells) and you had PCs that finally had at least a glimmer of a wisp of a trace of a hope of living through the end of the CoB campaign (I won't go into any deeper specifics so as to avoid spoilers).

Fast forward to the summer of 2013 (such is the Doctor's power!). The DnD 3.5 rule set has been, largely but not completely, replaced by the Pathfinder rules. Necromancer Games has been, well I won't say replaced, but its niche (third edition rules, first edition feel) has been filled by Frog God Games. And now, following Gen Con 2013, Pathfinder Mythic rules have supplanted what we used to call Epic rules.

But Doctor, you say, all I'm hearing is a lot of jaw jacking and chin music! I've got new episodes of Dexter and Hell on Wheels on the DVR! Get to the point, sir!

Very well. The point, dear reader (which you already knew because you read the thread title, oh astute one), is that the time has come for the City of Brass to rise again, reborn in all of its shiny new Pathfinder Mythic rules splendor.

So, what say you, FGG? Is there hope for a City of Brass revival? Or did I spill my adult beverage all over my Bermuda shorts while typing this for naught?

DJF

The Exchange

I have a deep-seated disdain for 'epic', but recognize that in a world with a severe paucity of things for 16th-20th level PF characters to do, the City of Brass is crawling with potential. To my own surprise, despite my love of plane-hopping adventures, I have only ever had a small part of a single adventure set there...

...so yeah, I'd like to see Pathfinder's take on one of the few iconic extraplanar locations that D&D and PF have in common.

Publisher, Frog God Games

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Its in the planning stage and has had much discussion--really Skeeter has to answer this.


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Throws more money at Bill


Yes yes yes yes yes!


I was planning on doing it mythic as a sequal to Legacy of Fire. If this comes out before I get to that point (a long long time to,go) it would be perfect.

Grand Lodge

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Dr. Johnny Fever wrote:
It finally fleshed out the mythic (hold onto that word, you'll need it later) city at which the cover of the 1st edition Dungeon Master's Guide had only hinted.

[thread-jack]I absolutely love the City of Brass boxed set by Necromancer Games, but TSR was the first to "finally" flesh out that awesome city way back in 1993 for 2nd edition D&D. It was fully detailed in "Secrets of the Lamp" by Wolfgang Baur...

What's more, in 2003, the City of Brass was also fully detailed by Kenzer & Company for Hackmaster's 4th edition game.

So, the City of Brass has been a part of gaming for quite a while before Necromancer Games decided to tackle the city themselves.[/end thread-jack]


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

@ Digitalelf:

Thanks for the heads up about those other products! I actually owned 'Secrets of the Lamp' but sold it quite awhile ago during a move from Michigan to Texas. Now that you've reminded me, I recall it being very good, like pretty much everything else that Wolfgang Baur produces. I did not know about the Hackmaster product.

Regardless, thanks for the info!


Theres also Rob Kuntz "To the City of Brass" tournament module.

I found a pretty PDF reproduction by NG here.


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I'm gonna be unpopular here: I love the City of Brass. I have two boxed sets, one still mint and unopened. Yes. That much. And no, I don't want to sell it. But honestly, I'd rather have FGG create new stuff than update 3.X-Necro-products to PFRPG. What about an epic campaign in the inner planes that partially takes place in the city? I've been waiting for good inner planes action for quite a while...

Just my 2 cents, of course!


It's still not too late for someone to pick up the City of Brass baton.


Dude! I thought I was the wannabe necromancer...


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Frog God Games are running a City of Brass kickstarter in the nearish future, I believe. Not sure if it will include mythic options (not even 100% sure there'll be a pathfinder version, though I presume so).

Anyhow - it's a timely resurrection. :)


Looks like no Pathfinder version.


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Is it up somewhere?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Guessing that PF options in upcoming Kickstarters may be in limbo or at least delayed for PF2, as I remember NG getting burned by their 3.0 books that arrived shortly before 3.5 was released.


Not up yet, but on facebook they indicated a Pathfinder version was not likely to happen.


Thedmstrikes wrote:
Dude! I thought I was the wannabe necromancer...

I can't let you have all the fun! ,)


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DaveMage wrote:
Not up yet, but on facebook they indicated a Pathfinder version was not likely to happen.

Ah. Thanks.


Have they mentioned anything about the overall Lost Lands Campaign Setting book?


They're definitely leaving money on the table by not doing a Pathfinder version. They do note that the campaign book is considered system-neutral, but that's not what I'm looking for. I think I'd rather update Wolfgang Baur's version from Secrets of the Lamp.


GM Rednal wrote:
Have they mentioned anything about the overall Lost Lands Campaign Setting book?

Sounds like they are working on it and it may be a box set. It will reportedly be system neutral.

And I hope it's the next Kickstarter.


I also hope it's the next Kickstarter. XD That's one of the things I've most wanted, and my collection really doesn't feel complete without it.


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Brother Fen wrote:
They're definitely leaving money on the table by not doing a Pathfinder version.

I believe FGG generally price their stuff factoring in a long “tail” of sales. They have the storage space/labor to accomodate overprinting with a view to selling the surplus down the track. That keeps the price down on their big books but also means they’re more likely to get burdened with unsellable stock, should that be the result of the new edition. (I don’t know for sure, but you’d have to think it likely - but it’d be hard to justify sinking thousands into PF1 inventory at this stage).

Scarab Sages

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There has been a lot of talk about the Lost Lands Campaign Setting, but no real date. I expect it will not be until next year at the earliest. Greg has done a lot of work on it over the past few years.

I was talking to Bill several months ago, and he said since 5th edition came out Pathfinder is not really selling well.

I usually buy all three versions, and I would like to see a Pathfinder version for sure.

I also understand now that PF2 has been announced there is reluctance to put out PF1 stuff (and who can blame them).

Now, one of the things that keeps me from going to 5th is that there is so much Lost Lands material that is not done in 5th Ed. I have been running a Lost Lands campaign for three or more years, and still want to run The Cults of the Sundered Kingdoms, Tsar and the Sword of Air.

I think most everything else made it to 5th. Being the group is in Rappan Ahtuk currently, maybe the 5th ed release will be my move.


Without support for PF, the one system that has propped up the third party industry through waning fourth edition times, I will not participate. I enjoyed D&D since the early 80s (I am not quite old enough to be an original grognard, but the red box was my introduction), but both fourth and fifth editions have been drastically disappointing for different reasons and I am not about to drop another hundreds to thousands of dollars to update my collection just because it sells better (just to be clear, I will not be doing it for PF2E either).

City of Brass was a GREAT product and I thoroughly enjoyed reading about it during my hiatus (that period of time I was stuck in gamer hell with no players). I just cannot bring myself to pay upwards of 100 dollars for a rule set I will have to convert when I already have such a thing and the one I already have is easier to convert than the two new ones. Let me know if they come to their senses and offer a PF version, I will happily join in at that time, until then, thanks for saving me money.


Ditto!

Well said.


Yeah, I have the original City of Brass as well, and it's disappointing that there's not going to be a PF1 version, but as PF1 winds down I certainly understand why they won't do one.

I've got every NG/FGG product for 3.x and Pathfinder, but while I'm disappointed I won't be along for the ride much longer, I would normally be shelling out $100+ for this, so I'm taking solace in the fact that I'll be saving money. :)

The Lost Lands Campaign Setting kickstarter (if it is indeed system neutral) will be the last one for me.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

From the City of Brass KS update:

"The next issue, Pathfinder material from Frog God Games, has been mentioned a number of times, it is best summarized and presented in the comment by KS backer Wise1 (scroll down to read it). Here is the best answer we can give right now.

There will be no immediate Pathfinder version of City of Brass from Frog God Games. For all the reasons stated in the post by Mike Badolato below, our decision is based on the annual sales trends in the Pathfinder market for about 2 years now, it was not based on the PF 2.0 announcement at all (though we were as surprised as everyone else about it). Pathfinder 2.0 might very well become a popular and viable system and if it does Frog God Games will support it enthusiastically, including converting books like the City of Brass and Rappan Athuk to the system. Until we have certainty of that we just cannot take the business risks involved. The opportunity cost presented for any PF content immense. We just cannot expend the production resources (or the physical printing costs) on the very small number of units we predict will sell for us."

Sorry kids, video killed the radio star.


Aw Gorbacz, you missed the necromancer reviving the radio star for podcasts. Positive news is that Frog God has promised to release Greg Vaughn’s work on the Lost Lands Campaign setting alongside the Kickstarter for it in the fall! About the best news this DM has heard of in a long while.


I'll just drop my couple hundred somewhere else and convert the best version of the City of Brass - Secrets of the Lamp - anyway.


Hey Toothy, we're probably the same age.


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Thank you for highlighting this info! Mega disappointed, but I can also understand these decisions, and do appreciate the willingness to put out what they have.

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