paizo.com Recent Posts in Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelpaizo.com Recent Posts in Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every level2016-10-01T09:50:07Z2016-10-01T09:50:07ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelShogahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#502016-10-02T16:28:17Z2016-10-02T16:28:17Z<p>Don't discount <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/intensified-spell-metamagic" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Intensified Spell Feat</a> at higher levels. Increases your damage on any level dependent damage dice spells you have at only a +1 SL increase.</p>Don't discount Intensified Spell Feat at higher levels. Increases your damage on any level dependent damage dice spells you have at only a +1 SL increase.Shoga2016-10-02T16:28:17ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelAbraham spaldinghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#472016-06-29T18:10:24Z2016-06-29T18:10:24Z<p>Level 0: Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Mending, Message
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Level 1: Liberating Command, Ray of Enfeeblement, Protection from Alignment, Mudball
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Level 2: Anti-summoning Shield, Greater Detect Magic (for intrigue games), See Invisibility, Touch of idiocy, Admonishing Ray
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Level 3: Dispel Magic, Communal Resist Energy, Summon Monster 3, Arcane Sight, Shrink Item
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Level 4: Summon Monster 4, Dimensional Door, Dimensional Anchor, Dragon's Breath, Emergency Force Shelter (or resilient Sphere)
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Level 5: Echolocation, Break Enchantment, Feeblemind, Overland Flight
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Level 6: Planar Binding, Summon Monster 6, Disintegrate, True Seeing</p>Level 0: Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Mending, Message
Level 1: Liberating Command, Ray of Enfeeblement, Protection from Alignment, Mudball
Level 2: Anti-summoning Shield, Greater Detect Magic (for intrigue games), See Invisibility, Touch of idiocy, Admonishing Ray
Level 3: Dispel Magic, Communal Resist Energy, Summon Monster 3, Arcane Sight, Shrink Item
Level 4: Summon Monster 4, Dimensional Door, Dimensional Anchor, Dragon's Breath, Emergency Force Shelter (or resilient Sphere)
Level 5:...Abraham spalding2016-06-29T18:10:24ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelDivvox2https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#462016-06-29T16:17:51Z2016-06-29T16:17:51Z<p>Lots of good stuff, I'll just throw out a few highlights.</p>
<p>Level 0: Open/Close. In low level play, it's a great way to avoid getting slapped by mechanical traps, or to keep out of range of an ambush behind a door. Even in high-level play, if you have spotted a trap but can't disarm it, you might still be able to get rid of it with this.</p>
<p>Level 1: Summon Monster 1, if you have the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/summon-neutral-monster" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Neutral Summoning feat</a>. Freaking <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/stirge" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">stirges</a> and their touch attack to grapple and damage CON. That's as crazy at first level as it is at 20th, and you can get a mess of them to harry multiple targets with SM2 and 3. No better way to force an opponent to spend their turn trying to get rid of the pests less they lose # of HD health and -1 fort save every 2 rounds AND have to deal with grapple penalties. Particularly because average touch AC doesn't really scale through the levels, it tends to level out around 20.</p>
<p>Level 2: Blindness/Deafness - shut down low level mages first round by removing their ability to target things. Also SM2 for more stirges.</p>
<p>Level 3: SM3, stirge boogaloo (okay, I'll stop). Phantasmal steed for long lasting and significant movement capabilities, Heroism at lower levels because a +2 to nearly everything is nothing to sneeze at for a front-liner, particularly because it'll last a long time.</p>
<p>Level 4: It's been said before, but enervation. Nothing closer to a kick in the huevos than level drain. Also Fleshworm Infestation is a great debuff for dex builds that tend to have poor fort saves. Saving doesn't negate it, there's a chance to stagger them every round, it just destroys a dex score, it will still sicken them even if they make the save, AND a number of effects that would remove an effect like this just don't work. Use it with a reach metamagic rod to keep out of the fight.</p>
<p>Level 5: I'm honestly stunned this one isn't here already... Wall of Stone. From a bridge to a literal funnel for badguys, this is an immense source of flexibility in a single spell, particularly for battlefield control.</p>
<p>Past level 5 it starts getting kinda crazy, so I'll leave off here. Summon Monster X is almost universally useful in some manner, but can eat up time while running your turn, so have flash cards ready or something.</p>Lots of good stuff, I'll just throw out a few highlights.
Level 0: Open/Close. In low level play, it's a great way to avoid getting slapped by mechanical traps, or to keep out of range of an ambush behind a door. Even in high-level play, if you have spotted a trap but can't disarm it, you might still be able to get rid of it with this.
Level 1: Summon Monster 1, if you have the Neutral Summoning feat. Freaking stirges and their touch attack to grapple and damage CON. That's as crazy at...Divvox22016-06-29T16:17:51ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelnotabothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#452020-04-05T00:34:46Z2013-08-23T04:06:40Z<p>Reign of Winter Spoiler: [Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>So I guess I should probably include the list of spells I think are good at every level. I don't play sorcerers (or oracle for that matter) since I don't like the flexibility loss of not having a huge pile of spells. Yes I know about the half elf paragon surge and other things like human favored class... I still like witches and wizards and clerics better (I'm mixed on druids, their list doesn't appeal to me).</p>
<p>My list is based on all levels of adventuring, obviously color spray and sleep are amazing at low levels, but useless later on so I don't include them. Some of the damage spells at low levels require specific builds to make good use out of, look at the admixture wizard and similar things for making them good. I have it broken down into types of spells too, as imho its good to have a variety of effects ready at each spell level (though your high level slots will likely be filled with metamagic version of your favorite offensive spells and emergency measures spells)
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level one:
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Single target damage: tossup between snowball and shocking grasp.
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AoE: Burning hands
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Self Buff: shield (mage armor can be replaced with bracers later on, or wand/potion)
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Friendly buff: enlarge person
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Control: Grease
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Mobility: expeditious retreat or mount</p>
<p>Lvl2:
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single target: Hideous laughter (no good damage options, and this is Save or die effectively), or blindness/deafness (targets fort instead of will)
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AoE: Gitterdust (not much damage options worth anything IMHO)
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Self Buff: Invisibility, mirror image. Two good illusions cause miss chance is better than armor.
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Friendly buff: bull's strength and suppress charms and compulsions
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Control: Create pit edges out web, barely and by situation.
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Mobility: communal mount or spider climb (Amazing situationally, nobody looks up and you create lots out new combat space that doesn't give up cover like flying does)</p>
<p>lvl 3:
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Single target: Hold person. Its a save or effectively die. Dispel magic cause sometimes you need to say no.
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AoE: Fireball. Learn it love it metamagic the crap out of it.
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Self Buff: Displacement. Cause miss chance is better than armor
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Friendly buff: Haste. Depending on group this is solid or spectacular.
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Control: Stinking cloud. Ends combats, free slightly used lunches. Runner up is Slow, for less collateral effects.
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Mobility: Fly. At later levels, phantasmal steed (can fly and lasts loner and movement doesn't eat up your actions)</p>
<p>Lvl4:
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Single target: Dimensional anchor, this level is weak at this type of spell IMHO, but this is pretty good for some fights.
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AoE: Black tenticles. decent enough damage over time, locks down an aread.
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Self Buff: greater invisibility, sure you can give it to others, but its better on you.
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Friendly buff: Stone skin. Give this to the meat shield, let him take the attacks while you use G.Invis
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Control: SO MANY: the wall spells. Confusion. Solid Fog
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Mobility: Dimensional Door. Baby's first teleport</p>
<p>Lvl 5:
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Single target: SO MANY: Magic Jar, baleful poly-morph, Feeble-mind, hold Monster, Icy prison, Dismissal.
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AoE: Cloud kill, kill all the trash and weaken the big stuff.
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Self Buff: Not much I like here, Echolocation gives blind sight...
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Friendly buff: Not much I like here, Polymorph and mass stone skin if I must
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Control: Walls walls walls, oh a hungry pit I guess.
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Mobility: teleport and overland flight. if you have to guess why turn in your wizard guild card.</p>
<p>Lvl6:
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Single Target: Disintergrate, when it absolutely must die now and has a weak fort save. Flesh to stone, save them for later.
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AoE: Circle of Death, when all of the trash must die.
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Self Buff: true seeing, repulsion. See them coming and keep the dumbs ones away
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Friendly buff: Greater heroism if morale isn't aready covered.
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Control: greater dispel magic, Sirocco (flyer control)
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Mobility: Shadow walk, Summon Giant Eagles (you know you want to)</p>
<p>Lvl7:
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Single Target: Finger of Death, DIE!, Grasping hand (so much fun!)or power word blind for those no save debuffs
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AoE: Waves of Exhaustion. Such a great debuff.
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Self Buff: Spell turning (killed a PC with his own disintegrate, so it holds a special place in my heart)
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Friendly Buff: Joyful Rapture, yeah, you aren't likely to prepare it but its pretty good for a wizard
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Control: Force cage
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Mobility: plane shift, its a game changer</p>
<p>Lvl8:
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Single target: Power word stun, Save or die without the save part. Maze, time out for the big dumb fighter.
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AoE: Sunburst, Vampire be gone
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Self buff: Not much I think is worth a slot, Mind blank cause you probably have powerful enemies by this point
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Friendly Buff: Screen, almost required high level party protection for camping/stronghold inner sanctum
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Control: telekinetic sphere.
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Mobility: nothing of note</p>
<p>Lvl 9:
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Single target: dominate monster(hmm wonder why), energy drain (ouch even with a save), power word kill (for your no save death dealing)
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AoE: Wail of the Banshee. 170 damage min, effectively a mass save or die spell
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Self Buff: Time stop
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Friendly buff: screw your friends, you are a 9th level spell caster. Oh I guess Wish, but only if they pay for it!
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Control: Prismatic sphere: Try getting out of that!
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Mobility: Interplanetary teleport, astral projection, Gate.</p>Reign of Winter Spoiler: [Spoiler omitted]
So I guess I should probably include the list of spells I think are good at every level. I don't play sorcerers (or oracle for that matter) since I don't like the flexibility loss of not having a huge pile of spells. Yes I know about the half elf paragon surge and other things like human favored class... I still like witches and wizards and clerics better (I'm mixed on druids, their list doesn't appeal to me).
My list is based on all levels of...notabot2013-08-23T04:06:40ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelPupsockethttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#442013-08-23T04:05:32Z2013-08-23T04:05:32Z<p>0: <b>Detect Magic</b>, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Spark. </p>
<p>I can't believe the number of scenarios still written under the silly, silly assumption that the party won't be using Detect Magic everywhere. </p>
<p>1: Color Spray (at low levels), Magic Missile (for "counterspelling"), Grease, Enlarge Person, Vanish.</p>
<p>Sleep is notably absent from the list because of the casting time. </p>
<p>2: Create Pit, Mirror Image, Flaming Sphere, Invisibility, Command Undead</p>0: Detect Magic, Light, Prestidigitation, Daze, Spark.
I can't believe the number of scenarios still written under the silly, silly assumption that the party won't be using Detect Magic everywhere.
1: Color Spray (at low levels), Magic Missile (for "counterspelling"), Grease, Enlarge Person, Vanish.
Sleep is notably absent from the list because of the casting time.
2: Create Pit, Mirror Image, Flaming Sphere, Invisibility, Command UndeadPupsocket2013-08-23T04:05:32ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelPupsockethttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#432013-08-23T03:54:32Z2013-08-23T03:54:32Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">notabot wrote:</div><blockquote></p>
<p>That damage is 100 percent legit. Challenge for a cavalier is +4, PA is + 6, +6 for 18 strength. </blockquote><p>Doesn't the "two-handed modifiers require two hands on the weapon" ruling apply to lances, though?notabot wrote:That damage is 100 percent legit. Challenge for a cavalier is +4, PA is + 6, +6 for 18 strength.
Doesn't the "two-handed modifiers require two hands on the weapon" ruling apply to lances, though?Pupsocket2013-08-23T03:54:32ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelwakedownhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#422013-08-23T01:19:55Z2013-08-23T01:19:55Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">notabot wrote:</div><blockquote>Actually they managed to get the horse into the tower in Reign of winter. Floor plan is pretty open with minimal difficult spots.</blockquote><p>Ack!
<p>[Spoiler omitted] </p>
<p>It's still quite an accomplishment to get a horse that deep into the tower... I've played or GM'd cavaliers through 30 levels of APs, and out of ~300 combats, I think I've only seen ride-by attacks or mounted charges used in ~12 of those combats (and a lot of those were when I GM'd and tried to add more encounters that would be cavalier-friendly).</p>notabot wrote:Actually they managed to get the horse into the tower in Reign of winter. Floor plan is pretty open with minimal difficult spots.
Ack! [Spoiler omitted]
It's still quite an accomplishment to get a horse that deep into the tower... I've played or GM'd cavaliers through 30 levels of APs, and out of ~300 combats, I think I've only seen ride-by attacks or mounted charges used in ~12 of those combats (and a lot of those were when I GM'd and tried to add more encounters that would...wakedown2013-08-23T01:19:55ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelHayato Kenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#412013-08-23T00:55:17Z2013-08-23T00:55:17Z<p>Nah, my serpentine sorceress just acquired a giant frilled lizard, her new mount which she rides into battle, casting spells from his back.
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The lizard eats the people she is not enchanting, toasting or deep-freezing. Simple as that, she can at will talk to him and if need be enchant him too hehe.
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With shield, mage armor and protection from evil AC´s are quite high too.
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Later she will delve into necromantics and religion a it to be able to enchant undead. Which will synergize with her bloodline feature.</p>
<p>That said, the peacemaker feat is a quite nice feat. It can either debuff or buy you time to buff with the according spells. But maybe it´s more for bards and oracles.</p>Nah, my serpentine sorceress just acquired a giant frilled lizard, her new mount which she rides into battle, casting spells from his back.
The lizard eats the people she is not enchanting, toasting or deep-freezing. Simple as that, she can at will talk to him and if need be enchant him too hehe.
With shield, mage armor and protection from evil AC´s are quite high too.
Later she will delve into necromantics and religion a it to be able to enchant undead. Which will synergize with her...Hayato Ken2013-08-23T00:55:17ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelandrewwhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#402013-08-23T00:36:27Z2013-08-23T00:36:27Z<p>This is the generalist Sorcerer I am developing towards. </p>
<p>It mixes powerful battlefield control through Dazing Evocations with potent Enchantments and Transmutations enhanced by metamagic, a smattering of Divinations, additional flexibility with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation as well as full access to Greater Planar Binding tricks. Combined with Moment of Prescience we don't even care about the opposed Charisma check. He even gets to engage in easy 5 minute workday shenanigans with Magnificent Mansion silliness. </p>
<p>A Mnemonic Vestment and some scrolls for niche spells round things out nicely covering stuff like Discern Location. If allowed then I would take Racial Heritage for Paragon Surge and change the list quite significantly. </p>
<p>With Silent and Still spell he is extremely hard to shut down. Reach Spell allows him to engage enemies at almost any distance even with very short range spells. Hitting your target with Dominate Person from 800' away lets you not worry about the 1 round cast time. Similarly Reach Plane Shift is amazingly great at removing dangerous threats from relative safety, especially those which are immune to mind effects. </p>
<p>Finally he is a Sage Sorcerer so has masses of skill points to cover pretty much anything you want.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>This is the generalist Sorcerer I am developing towards.
It mixes powerful battlefield control through Dazing Evocations with potent Enchantments and Transmutations enhanced by metamagic, a smattering of Divinations, additional flexibility with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation as well as full access to Greater Planar Binding tricks. Combined with Moment of Prescience we don't even care about the opposed Charisma check. He even gets to engage in easy 5 minute workday shenanigans with Magnificent...andreww2013-08-23T00:36:27ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every leveljames maissenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#392013-08-22T21:32:04Z2013-08-22T21:32:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Just Big Boned wrote:</div><blockquote> I'm working on a generalist Human Sorcerer without any particular theme in mind other than versatility and potency. </blockquote><p>Don't build a sorcerer piecemeal, rather build them as an integrated whole. You will feel far more 'optimal' this way.
<p>For your own needs, list the party members that you will have with you and roughly what their function is looking to be.</p>
<p>Then give us what you want to be able to deliver to the table.</p>
<p>-James</p>Just Big Boned wrote:I'm working on a generalist Human Sorcerer without any particular theme in mind other than versatility and potency.
Don't build a sorcerer piecemeal, rather build them as an integrated whole. You will feel far more 'optimal' this way. For your own needs, list the party members that you will have with you and roughly what their function is looking to be.
Then give us what you want to be able to deliver to the table.
-Jamesjames maissen2013-08-22T21:32:04ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelnotabothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#382013-08-22T21:50:43Z2013-08-22T21:30:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">hogarth wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Adamantine Dragon wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I suppose this list will be vastly superior to all the other "best sorcerer/wizard spells per level" threads that already have covered the territory.</p>
<p>I can't wait. </blockquote>To be fair, some new sourcebooks have come out since the last thread I read on the subject. </blockquote><p>I wouldn't worry about AD's post, it what some forums call "blank" posting. where blank is what you think it means.
<p>There hasn't really been anything earth shaking in terms of spells for a while though, like snowball is one that stands out for me (good damage progression + debuff? sounds good).</p>hogarth wrote:Adamantine Dragon wrote:I suppose this list will be vastly superior to all the other "best sorcerer/wizard spells per level" threads that already have covered the territory.
I can't wait.
To be fair, some new sourcebooks have come out since the last thread I read on the subject. I wouldn't worry about AD's post, it what some forums call "blank" posting. where blank is what you think it means. There hasn't really been anything earth shaking in terms of spells for a while...notabot2013-08-22T21:30:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelhogarthhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#372013-08-22T21:22:46Z2013-08-22T21:22:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Adamantine Dragon wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I suppose this list will be vastly superior to all the other "best sorcerer/wizard spells per level" threads that already have covered the territory.</p>
<p>I can't wait. </blockquote><p>To be fair, some new sourcebooks have come out since the last thread I read on the subject.Adamantine Dragon wrote:I suppose this list will be vastly superior to all the other "best sorcerer/wizard spells per level" threads that already have covered the territory.
I can't wait.
To be fair, some new sourcebooks have come out since the last thread I read on the subject.hogarth2013-08-22T21:22:46ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelnotabothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#362013-08-22T21:16:58Z2013-08-22T21:16:58Z<p>Actually they managed to get the horse into the tower in Reign of winter. Floor plan is pretty open with minimal difficult spots. </p>
<p>As for the bonus's -0 for furious focus, +4 for BAB, + 4 for strength, +4 for cavaliers charge, +2 order bonus, +1 masterwork lance (not a drop in the adventure, but I ruled it possible to get one from the town, carpenter there had a +1 quarterstaff for sale and was expert6, which is more than enough to reasonably believe he could craft weapons). That is +15 to hit without any buffs.</p>
<p>I'm kind of curious why your full BAB guys are missing out on +5 to hit, it's like they aren't even trying to do their job. My players are pretty creative though, and they have long ago realized that the true purpose of casters is martial delivery systems. If you can deliver the murder hobo into the tactically perfect situation he will do far more damage with less resources than nearly anything else you can do.</p>Actually they managed to get the horse into the tower in Reign of winter. Floor plan is pretty open with minimal difficult spots.
As for the bonus's -0 for furious focus, +4 for BAB, + 4 for strength, +4 for cavaliers charge, +2 order bonus, +1 masterwork lance (not a drop in the adventure, but I ruled it possible to get one from the town, carpenter there had a +1 quarterstaff for sale and was expert6, which is more than enough to reasonably believe he could craft weapons). That is +15 to...notabot2013-08-22T21:16:58ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelwakedownhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#352013-08-22T19:20:29Z2013-08-22T19:20:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Martial, Martial, Martial! wrote:</div><blockquote>Still, hitting on a 2+ even when power attacking? That's gotta be a pretty low AC BBEG...</blockquote><p>I'm trying to think about which BBEG in Legacy, Shattered or Winter at this level was outside in the open, available to be charged and has an ~AC12...
<p>(assuming the cavalier has +10 to attack while power attacking at 4th level)</p>
<p>I can't remember any...?</p>
<p>This is not a commonplace occurrence for cavaliers... unless they're gnomes, then it's totally all good. :)</p>Martial, Martial, Martial! wrote:Still, hitting on a 2+ even when power attacking? That's gotta be a pretty low AC BBEG...
I'm trying to think about which BBEG in Legacy, Shattered or Winter at this level was outside in the open, available to be charged and has an ~AC12... (assuming the cavalier has +10 to attack while power attacking at 4th level)
I can't remember any...?
This is not a commonplace occurrence for cavaliers... unless they're gnomes, then it's totally all good. :)wakedown2013-08-22T19:20:29ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelnotabothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#342013-08-22T18:08:28Z2013-08-22T18:08:28Z<p>Ah, wasn't sure that the double damage on charge was treated the same, thought it was just rolled normal crit and double it, cause that is what double damage is, I didn't think that it was the same thing as X2 multipliers which have specific rules.</p>
<p>But yes, the amount of damage possible by a lance character without even trying is pretty extreme, and same thing goes with some other high damage concepts.</p>Ah, wasn't sure that the double damage on charge was treated the same, thought it was just rolled normal crit and double it, cause that is what double damage is, I didn't think that it was the same thing as X2 multipliers which have specific rules.
But yes, the amount of damage possible by a lance character without even trying is pretty extreme, and same thing goes with some other high damage concepts.notabot2013-08-22T18:08:28ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelMartial, Martial, Martial! (alias of Damocles Guile)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#332013-08-22T17:54:38Z2013-08-22T17:54:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">notabot wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Martial, Martial, Martial! wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">notabot wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Jodokai wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.</p>
<p>•I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good. </blockquote><p>Haste is actually a pretty poor spell in my group. When full attacks are rare and combat is over in 1-3 rounds haste just doesn't do enough. Then again my group has played together for a long time and know how to get things done. They have even had an arms race for initiative since going last means you probably don't get to do anything.
<p>That isn't to say I don't challenge the party, I manage to kill quite a few even though I've only been running APs the last couple of times (Legacy of Fire, Shattered Star, and currently Reign of winter). When you have a party member that hits the boss of a module on a 2+ and deals 104 damage at level 4 during the first round its really hard to justify haste. </blockquote>Sounds 100% legit to me. </blockquote>That damage is 100 percent legit. Challenge for a cavalier is +4, PA is + 6, +6 for 18 strength. 1d8 for damage dice. x3 Crit damage, double damage from the back of a horse. 16x3=48, min damage with dice is 51. On a charge that is + 51 more, 102 min damage. IIRC the 104 war the player being bad at math, they actually did 114. There isn't many things a level 4 party is going to be fighting that can avoid being one hit killed by a crit lance delivered by a cavalier. Even without crit that is 2(1d8+16)~ average non crit damage is pretty high. 34 min? Not much at 4th lives through that. </blockquote><p>Obviously charging mounted critical with a lance is another matter altogether - the post made it sound as if that was a routine occurrance. Mounted characters never seem to do well in my campaign, not the large mounts, anyway - tough to get those warhorses down through trapdoors, up winding stairs or across narrow ledges, and who wants their character suddenly gimped because he had to climb a ladder?
<p>Still, hitting on a 2+ even when power attacking? That's gotta be a pretty low AC BBEG...</p>notabot wrote:Martial, Martial, Martial! wrote: notabot wrote: Jodokai wrote:Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.
*I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good.
Haste is actually a pretty poor...Martial, Martial, Martial! (alias of Damocles Guile)2013-08-22T17:54:38ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelJiggy (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#322013-08-22T17:50:16Z2013-08-22T17:50:16Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">notabot wrote:</div><blockquote>16x3=48, min damage with dice is 51. On a charge that is + 51 more, 102 min damage.</blockquote><p>Multipliers don't work that way in Pathfinder; if you're applying both a x3 and a x2, you end up with a net x4, not doubling the x3. So your damage on a charging lance crit is 4d8+64, not 6d8+96. Still a moot point at 4th level, though. ;)notabot wrote:16x3=48, min damage with dice is 51. On a charge that is + 51 more, 102 min damage.
Multipliers don't work that way in Pathfinder; if you're applying both a x3 and a x2, you end up with a net x4, not doubling the x3. So your damage on a charging lance crit is 4d8+64, not 6d8+96. Still a moot point at 4th level, though. ;)Jiggy (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)2013-08-22T17:50:16ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelnotabothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#312013-08-22T17:24:25Z2013-08-22T17:24:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Martial, Martial, Martial! wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">notabot wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Jodokai wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.</p>
<p>•I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good. </blockquote><p>Haste is actually a pretty poor spell in my group. When full attacks are rare and combat is over in 1-3 rounds haste just doesn't do enough. Then again my group has played together for a long time and know how to get things done. They have even had an arms race for initiative since going last means you probably don't get to do anything.
<p>That isn't to say I don't challenge the party, I manage to kill quite a few even though I've only been running APs the last couple of times (Legacy of Fire, Shattered Star, and currently Reign of winter). When you have a party member that hits the boss of a module on a 2+ and deals 104 damage at level 4 during the first round its really hard to justify haste. </blockquote>Sounds 100% legit to me. </blockquote><p>That damage is 100 percent legit. Challenge for a cavalier is +4, PA is + 6, +6 for 18 strength. 1d8 for damage dice. x3 Crit damage, double damage from the back of a horse. 16x3=48, min damage with dice is 51. On a charge that is + 51 more, 102 min damage. IIRC the 104 war the player being bad at math, they actually did 114. There isn't many things a level 4 party is going to be fighting that can avoid being one hit killed by a crit lance delivered by a cavalier. Even without crit that is 2(1d8+16)~ average non crit damage is pretty high. 34 min? Not much at 4th lives through that.Martial, Martial, Martial! wrote:notabot wrote: Jodokai wrote:Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.
*I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good.
Haste is actually a pretty poor spell in my...notabot2013-08-22T17:24:25ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelstrayshifthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#302013-08-22T07:54:50Z2013-08-22T07:54:50Z<p>Bearing in mind you are Enchantment focussed. </p>
<p>Lvl 0: Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Daze to Ghost Sound, Light, Read Magic;
<br />
Lvl 1: Enlarge Person, Grease, Infernal Healing, Sleep/Colour Spray to Magic Missile, Protection from Evil;
<br />
Lvl 2: Create Pit, Eagle's Splendor to Rope Trick, Glitterdust, Hideous Laughter, Invisibility;
<br />
Lvl 3: Dispel Magic, Fireball, Fly, Haste, Suggestion;
<br />
Lvl 4: Arcane Eye, Black Tentacles, Confusion, Greater Invisibility, Monster Summoning IV;
<br />
Lvl 5: Cloudkill, Dominate Person, Teleport, Telekinesis, Wall of Force;
<br />
Lvl 6: Antimagic Field, Disintegrate, Greater Dispel Magic, Mass Suggestion, Summon Monster VI;
<br />
Lvl 7: Greater Arcane Sight, Greater Teleport, Limited Wish, Power Word Blind, Plane Shift;
<br />
Lvl 8: Maze, Moment of Prescience, Polymorph Any Object, Power Word Stun, Summon Monster VIII;
<br />
Lvl 9: Dominate Monster, Mage's Disjunction, Summon Monster IX, Time Stop, Wish;</p>Bearing in mind you are Enchantment focussed.
Lvl 0: Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Daze to Ghost Sound, Light, Read Magic;
Lvl 1: Enlarge Person, Grease, Infernal Healing, Sleep/Colour Spray to Magic Missile, Protection from Evil;
Lvl 2: Create Pit, Eagle's Splendor to Rope Trick, Glitterdust, Hideous Laughter, Invisibility;
Lvl 3: Dispel Magic, Fireball, Fly, Haste, Suggestion;
Lvl 4: Arcane Eye, Black Tentacles, Confusion, Greater Invisibility, Monster Summoning IV;
Lvl 5: Cloudkill, Dominate...strayshift2013-08-22T07:54:50ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelMartial, Martial, Martial! (alias of Damocles Guile)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#292013-08-22T02:29:15Z2013-08-22T02:29:15Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">notabot wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Jodokai wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.</p>
<p>•I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good. </blockquote><p>Haste is actually a pretty poor spell in my group. When full attacks are rare and combat is over in 1-3 rounds haste just doesn't do enough. Then again my group has played together for a long time and know how to get things done. They have even had an arms race for initiative since going last means you probably don't get to do anything.
<p>That isn't to say I don't challenge the party, I manage to kill quite a few even though I've only been running APs the last couple of times (Legacy of Fire, Shattered Star, and currently Reign of winter). When you have a party member that hits the boss of a module on a 2+ and deals 104 damage at level 4 during the first round its really hard to justify haste. </blockquote><p>Sounds 100% legit to me.notabot wrote:Jodokai wrote:Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.
*I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good.
Haste is actually a pretty poor spell in my group. When full attacks are rare and...Martial, Martial, Martial! (alias of Damocles Guile)2013-08-22T02:29:15ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelnotabothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#282016-12-03T20:11:48Z2013-08-22T02:25:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jodokai wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.</p>
<p>•I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good. </blockquote><p>Haste is actually a pretty poor spell in my group. When full attacks are rare and combat is over in 1-3 rounds haste just doesn't do enough. Then again my group has played together for a long time and know how to get things done. They have even had an arms race for initiative since going last means you probably don't get to do anything.
<p>That isn't to say I don't challenge the party, I manage to kill quite a few even though I've only been running APs the last couple of times (Legacy of Fire, Shattered Star, and currently Reign of winter). When you have a party member that hits the boss of a module on a 2+ and deals 104 damage at level 4 during the first round its really hard to justify haste.</p>Jodokai wrote:Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.
*I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good.
Haste is actually a pretty poor spell in my group. When full attacks are rare and combat is...notabot2013-08-22T02:25:49ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelScavionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#272019-08-02T13:13:57Z2013-08-21T22:03:15Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Experiment 626 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Just Big Boned wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Scavion wrote:</div><blockquote> I highly recommend Emergency Force Sphere for a 4th level spell. There aren't too many fantastic options that trump an immediate cast damage soaker that is useful into the high end games. </blockquote>Is that a 3PP spell? I can't seem to find it on the spell lists... </blockquote><a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/emergency-force-sphere" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Here it is.</a> </blockquote><p>Gorgeous spell. Makes the wizard/sorc so much tougher to simply march the big bad over and lay the smack down.Experiment 626 wrote:Just Big Boned wrote: Scavion wrote: I highly recommend Emergency Force Sphere for a 4th level spell. There aren't too many fantastic options that trump an immediate cast damage soaker that is useful into the high end games.
Is that a 3PP spell? I can't seem to find it on the spell lists... Here it is. Gorgeous spell. Makes the wizard/sorc so much tougher to simply march the big bad over and lay the smack down.Scavion2013-08-21T22:03:15ZRe: Forums: Advice: Best 5 Sorcerer/Wizard spells at every levelJodokaihttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q2rd?Best-5-SorcererWizard-spells-at-every-level#262013-08-21T21:56:49Z2013-08-21T21:56:49Z<p>Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.</p>
<p>•I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good.</p>Get haste. Don't think about just do it. Once you have it, next level, take it again just to make sure. If your first spell every combat isn't haste, you're doing combat wrong.
*I feel it necessary to add this is completely tongue-in-cheek, I will honestly say though, I get irritated any time the arcane caster can cast 3rd level spells and doesn't have haste. It really is that good.Jodokai2013-08-21T21:56:49Z