Goblin Squad Member
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Based on a recommendation from Mbando:
We should find some game to play in now, regardless of potential in game role or chartered company--some sort of "PFO Community" guild, and get to know each other in cooperative ways.
The Seventh Veil currently has a poll up in our forums for exactly this. After some analysis, we've limited the choices to Mortal Online, Darkfall: Unholy Wars, and EVE Online.
If you're interested in playing in one of these games - or another, feel free to propose more - please say something here.
We're not trying to establish a guild/clan that everyone has to join. It may well end up that we fight each other in that other game, and that's fine.
I think a number of us don't have a lot of experience in Open PvP, territorial games, and we could learn a lot - that is, make a lot of mistakes - there rather than waiting a couple of years to make them in PFO.
This is a good idea actually. I've never actually dipped my feet into the water with this genre, so to speak.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Based on a recommendation from Mbando:
We should find some game to play in now, regardless of potential in game role or chartered company--some sort of "PFO Community" guild, and get to know each other in cooperative ways.The Seventh Veil currently has a poll up in our forums for exactly this. After some analysis, we've limited the choices to Mortal Online, Darkfall: Unholy Wars, and EVE Online.
If you're interested in playing in one of these games - or another, feel free to propose more - please say something here.
We're not trying to establish a guild/clan that everyone has to join. It may well end up that we fight each other in that other game, and that's fine.
I think a number of us don't have a lot of experience in Open PvP, territorial games, and we could learn a lot - that is, make a lot of mistakes - there rather than waiting a couple of years to make them in PFO.
For those of us interested, please let the rest of the community know what TSV decides...and perhaps details of how to contact TSV in-game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you want to practice group dynamics/squad play and communication without having the build up of a sandbox mmorpg try planetside 2. It's a great tool to proctice pure and simple PvP.
It also has a lot of pew pew pew, which is always great. :)
I'm not familiar with Planetside. Does it involve holding territory? I think that's a significant aspect of what we'd like to practice.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Planetside 2 is a first person shooter similar to the battlefield series just upscaled to an MMO. It features three factions who all share the same three objectives. Murder enemy dudes, take the enemy dudes territory and hold your own territory. There is no way to have your own faction or claiming the territory for your outfit ( their version if guild). That's what I meant by pure simple PvP. So it may not be fit for your specific goal/ mission statement if this endeavor but it quite certainly has holding territory.
Just looked at the suggested games. Darkfall has a very morrowind-ish feel to me, so I'd be interested in checking that one out. I keep hearing about how the leveling system of PFO is based on Eve's, so I guess I wouldn't mind checking that one out either. Mortal online... Hm, it hasn't exactly clicked with me yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would suggest playing Eve. Ryan was specific about it.
Regardless to the wars that have gone on in other threads, I am willing to show any of you the ropes and teach you some PVP. We can make it a Friday night op for the PFO people. I just started playing again last week.
I was the main FC in two large alliances (one is still around), and help build them up in numbers and ability. I wont be doing this in PFO, I have a family and a good job so wont have as much time as needed.
So long as we don't get into too much heated debate Id teach any of you. Open invitation. Besides, you will probably see me in one of your settlements and never know it.
A buddy of mine has a TS server and my old alliance in Eve should let us use their mumble. Some of them may even join us.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Although EvE is a great PvP game, its combat will be too different from PFOs to provide you with real training.
Any Sword and Sorcery based MMO, free to play, and with a low PvP entry would be a good choice, Even SWTOR could be a good choice, basically any avatar vs avatar combat system would be fine.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Although EvE is a great PvP game, its combat will be too different from PFOs to provide you with real training.
Any Sword and Sorcery based MMO, free to play, and with a low PvP entry would be a good choice, Even SWTOR could be a good choice, basically any avatar vs avatar combat system would be fine.
This. EVE pvp is a bad trainer for PFO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to see the Pit Fighter come out for use sooner than later, but Ryan was asked recently and he said it was not a current priority (can't find the reference but I think it is coming, but not real soon).
I have played, and have characters in SWTOR, GW2, EVE, and LotRO and am currently playing Rift (PvP server Necropolis).
World PvP in Rift is very limited in that you don't hold territory but you can certainly terrorize noobs and lowbies, which many do regularly. There are only three zones that are not PvP-each starter zone, and the neutral city of Tempest Bay. Rift is F2P, although you can't sell anything on the AH unless you have "loyalty" which you get from spending money at the Rift store (You only need to spend $5-10, but that irks many prospective players).
SWTOR PvP is laughable. GW2 does have some potential in its WvWvW; there are limitations, but it's something. LotRO I have played a long time ago and don't remember many of the PvP features, but it might have a little potential as well.
Have not played NeverWinter, and Forge just now announced Dark Vale is going F2P as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am not advocating for it, just offering another idea:
Saga of Ryzom is a game with territorial control PvP and team-based harvesting with PvP/PvE escalation elements. It has also recently reset and collapsed its servers into a single one, making it a newer, international community.
The open-world PvP is optional (via flags). But there are many full open-PvP regions that are not optional.
Finally, the game has free to play and subscription based options and is available for PC, Mac, and even Linux.
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Goblin Squad Member
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TEO already has pretty casual stuff going on in EVE, Minecraft, and Planetside 2 at the moment.
If you guys go with EVE I'll try to kick our operations there up a notch, but I know I will join you and encourage other TEO members to join you on whichever you choose.
I'm kind of indifferent between the original three (Mortal, Darkfall, and EVE). I think they all have aspects that make each one a good place holder for PFO that are unique to them, as well as many good shared aspects.
I have some experience in all three, and since Darkfall (The title I've played the most) has been rebuilt since the last time I played it, the amount of experience I have in all three will be on about the same level of usefulness for all three titles.
I think all three have good selling points, and all three have critical problems that make them less interesting to me than PFO.
So yeah. Just let me know what you go with in the end.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This. EVE pvp is a bad trainer for PFO.Although EvE is a great PvP game, its combat will be too different from PFOs to provide you with real training.
Any Sword and Sorcery based MMO, free to play, and with a low PvP entry would be a good choice, Even SWTOR could be a good choice, basically any avatar vs avatar combat system would be fine.
I disagree. PVP in most sword and sorcery MMO's including SWTOR may have the correct perspective for what PFO will have but it ends there (for most).
Hardin is right, SWTOR pvp is laughable at best.
The biggest thing Eve has over the majority is the loss. Ryan said at GenCon that your gear will be like your ship in Eve. You can insure (thread) it but you will lose stuff when you die. That is the big thing most need to get over, the loss of their stuff. You will lose stuff in PFO.
Everything besides the perspective can be copied. Target calling, formations (proper fleet action), Logistics (healer), and it goes on.
Anyway, up to you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Right. The combat in PFO is sounding to be most similar to Guild Wars / Guild Wars 2 at this point. But we will have the pit fighter thing to teach us PFO combat.
What people can't learn about through the Pit Finder is about gear loss, and the general mentality in a community where anyone can kill you. EVE, Darkfall, and Mortal can all teach that.
So between those there is a few things to look at:
1. Are there factions? While EVE has factional warfare the primary PVP in EVE, Darkfall, Mortal and PFO is based around individual players and player made groups.
2. Is there looting? In EVE, Darkfall, and Mortal, everything is lost upon death. In Darkfall and Mortal, everything survives death and is lootable by the player's killer. You get nothing back unless you recover it from your body or the person who took it. In EVE a large portion of the gear is destroyed but some of it is left behind. Part of the value of that gear is returned to you. In PFO, not all of your gear is lost, and part of what is dropped is destroyed.
3. How do the safe areas compare to PFO? EVE has a huge amount of high sec space (safeish area) that is all connected. Darkfall, Mortal, and PFO all have very tiny islands of safish areas scattered about the map.
4. Is the alignment system meaningful? In EVE and Darkfall the alignment systems are terrible, and don't even function in large areas of the map. In MO and PFO they are meaningful enough to count for something and work decently well. (Though hopefully it's even better in PFO than MO.)
Overall I think you can see, Mortal Online offers the experience most similar to PFO in terms of how the PVP and community should function. Of course it's not entirely the same, and it also has the most issues with bugs and poor balancing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Need to match fun (this is key) with best game for organisational structures and roles to be adopted that will slot right into PFO? Eve strikes me as most useful regards organising around economic operations but is it fun enough for people?
Andius, could you describe Mortal Online some more? It's sounds promising from view of fun but what about economic organisation of roles for players to slot right into?
I have a desktop that runs mmos but my bb is v poor: It might run eve will have to see...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree with almost every thing Andius writes in his post.
I wouldn't say EVE has an alignment system, it roughly has a reputation system (security status) that is mostly used by NPC is how they respond to you. PCs can also use that in a meta fashion to decide if you can join them or not, but I have encounter more that require a negative sec. status than those that require a positive.
In EVE, PvP experience is highly valued, by all types of corporations. PVP in EVE can be done with brand new toons, but not in the same way as a true PVP pilot.
Now back to PFO and PVP...
The most important thing for you to learn about PVP is The Will to PVP. You have to be willing to participate in it; Willing to accept it, when you hoped it wouldn't happen to you; Willing to accept the loss when you do lose; and finally, be willing to jump right back into the game, even after a string of losses.
Having the will to pvp does not matter what game your doing it in, it is Your Will that matters. You will take that to every game you go, once you develop it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I dont know anything about MO. Would be good to hear about it a bit more from a future PFO player.
I would have to add a few things about alignment for Eve. It is not as PFO's will be but it can be similar in ways.
For instance, My character is considered CE (attack on sight) in Gallente and Minmatar space. But is considered LG in Caldari space and LN in Amarr space.
You also have the Security Status, which can make you attack on sight in any NPC even if the Nation by itself will consider you LG. Security status is like Reputation in PFO.
In low sec space, the gate guns will shoot you with a low security standing. In 0.0 you dont have any of it.
So... High sec will be like settlements, whether NPC or PC. Low sec will be like the surrounding hexes, where anything goes but only to a point. 0.0 will be like the third tier of hexes which is wilderness.
I honestly think, but am assuming it could be wrong, that this will be the layout in PFO. Settlement Hexes = High Sec, Surrounding Hexes = Low Sec, and Wilderness Hexes = 0.0.
In the end, there are similarities. The placement will not be the doughnut of Eve, but islands of each type of security space.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just to compile Ryan's advice here:
- Worrying about alignments, reputation, and security policies is not going to have much effect on your long term success at this juncture. Those are things that are still going to undergo a tremendous amount of crowdforging and will almost certainly change many times in Early Enrollment as we all seek good compromises.
- You should be worried about having robust leaders.
- You need people with experience in large MMO guilds to be a part of your leadership structure. If you don't have any, recruit them.
- You should be seeking to engage with people with stated long-term interests that you will need: people interested in logistics, crafting, diplomacy, market-manipulation, and military order. These people should have a demonstrated ability to function at a high level in competitive MMO environments - EVE, WoW, maybe EQ, maybe Ultima Online (hard to check bona fides on that one, but if you can, likely very valuable), GuildWars 2, RIFT, maybe Warhammer Online, maybe Aion.
I'll add to my own advice:
You should be playing EVE Online as a group. If you are organized enough to be talking about running a Settlement in Pathfinder Online a year before we even begin Early Enrollment, you should be organized enough to get your people into a functioning game and start experiencing some of this stuff right now for realz.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When I was a kid and hurt myself, my dad would tell me to hit myself in the head with a hammer cause I would stop thinking about how much my other injury was hurting compared to a hammer in the head. I left EVE a few months ago and it feels good. I don't want that hammer again. It was not fun and did not make me feel good.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When I was a kid and hurt myself, my dad would tell me to hit myself in the head with a hammer cause I would stop thinking about how much my other injury was hurting compared to a hammer in the head. I left EVE a few months ago and it feels good. I don't want that hammer again. It was not fun and did not make me feel good.
Were you mining and running missions? Lol, sorry had to ask.
What was it that bothered you?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I tried to go back to EvE to play with my TEO brethren, but the issues I have with the game, which will not plague PfO as things like training queues have been eliminated, just made me feel frustrated all over again. Haven't tried Planetside 2 (or the original, though friends who have played one or both like it), but I'm not a big SF MMO fan. I prefer Fantasy for gaming. SF is great reading. So any suggestions for a FRPG MMO that meets the criteria? Not many Sandbox PvP MMO's out there, yet ;)
actually i try Mortal Online, which provides system of full pvp, territory competition etc. it's free to play.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, i would very much like more people to get into eve.
i would also like to point out that you can actualy get classes on every aspect of the game including small and large scale pvp through eve-uni.
if you go that way, make sure to let me know;)
---as for MO, well my pc does not like it. couldn´t finish even the installation without errors so far :/
----also, make sure to get an invitaion by someone already playing to get the 21 day trialtime.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, i would very much like more people to get into eve.
i would also like to point out that you can actualy get classes on every aspect of the game including small and large scale pvp through eve-uni.if you go that way, make sure to let me know;)
---as for MO, well my pc does not like it. couldn´t finish even the installation without errors so far :/
----also, make sure to get an invitaion by someone already playing to get the 21 day trialtime.
I will gladly sponsor 21 day trials for any who need them.
A note on EVE UNI, it takes much longer than 21 days to go through the application process, and they will turn you down if you are too old or skill in the game.
I know this, because I tried when I had 69 Million SP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I will gladly sponsor 21 day trials for any who need them.
;) same here of course, and probably anyone else you know who plays eve.
A note on EVE UNI, it takes much longer than 21 days to go through the application process, and they will turn you down if you are too old or skill in the game.
I know this, because I tried when I had 69 Million SP.
O_O 69Million SP, in my dreams:)
What this noob right here can tell you though is that your above quote is not the case anymore as eve university opened its classes to public
So you might try again
Membership in the UNI will no longer be required to attend the corporation’s ongoing series of classes and lectures about EVE Online. They will be open to anyone who wants to participate on the UNI’s public Mumble server, without obligation or cost.
;) unless i got something wrong of course.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hehe are we proposing forming a large "quasi-guild" and invading another game en masse? Providing those rascals some content? Sounds familiar. ;)
Spreading such vile ideologies as Not Red Don't Shoot?
Well anyway. Mortal Online has the smallest population of all three titles but there is plenty of people to play with. It's just one of those titles that everyone knows all the major factions and even players.
When you kill someone who wasn't red or grey you take reputation loss. You gain reputation back over time, but if it falls too low you go red. Reds suffer minor skill loss upon death, and can't live out of lawful towns. The lawful / unlawful status of every town except Tindrem (lawful) and Gaul Kor (unlawful) is determined by the players who control it. You go grey every time you attack a blue of get caught thieving. You also go grey to the players you draw first blood against regardless of alignment.
It has a twitch based / manual aim combat system that I can't claim to have mastered or even gotten very good at, as I've never had a steady supply of gear to practice with. However pets are very powerful and a beastmaster is a great option for those not comfortable with twitch combat. Just sick fluffy on them.
In Mortal, for the most part each character serves one purpose, which is why I've never had a steady gear supply. Want a fighter with a mount / pet, armor, weapons, and a bow? That's going to take a tamer, armor smith, weapon smith, bow maker, weapon smith, miner / smelter, and possibly more. There are no classes but a limited pool of skill points with each character only being able to effectively serve one role. You can have up to four characters per account. So working together with others is key unless you have tons of time and multiple paid accounts.
It has very quick grind times compared to most games but there is grinding. You can train any skill to 70 through use of books, which work a lot like EVE skill training.
Crafting involves a lot of experimentation and knowledge of good recipes is almost as valuable as skilled fighters. There is a lot of choice on what materials to use for what items and those choices highly effect the properties of the weapon.
Race / Age choices matter... a lot! 23 year old Thursar/Khurite/Khurites are the absolute best fighter builds, though you can get by with light elves or pureblood Khurites as well. For mages you want a 23 year old light elf and for crafters / mounted mages you want an obese Hreugar of the age that gives max intelligence (somewhere is the 50's or 60's).
You can play other races so long as you realize the race and age combos I just described are straight up better than whatever else you'll be playing. Min/maxing is king.
Finally, MO has a free to play option, so just try it out!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bringslite wrote:
Hehe are we proposing forming a large "quasi-guild" and invading another game en masse? Providing those rascals some content? Sounds familiar. ;)
Spreading such vile ideologies as Not Red Don't Shoot?
I suppose that would depend on what exactly the goal or what you were trying to learn by playing together in another game. If it is practice for PVP and territory control, NBSI might be more instructional in a shorter time frame.
Unless I completely miss your point and you are just trying to goad?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf,
Darkfall Unholy Wars (click on the name for the website link) is listed at $39.95 for the game plus a $14.95/month subscription fee.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Darkfall could be interesting as a test case. I'd play it with a GoblinSquad group if one formed...Just switched my vote to Darkfall!
I think they've added some cool things with ships (ship-building and warships) recently, too.
Speaking of which and in the other tread about settlements: It's always interested me how things echo upwards:
Ship (Sail or Space):
- Command structure/Bridge = Brain
- Sails = locomotive function = limbs
- Hull = skin or membrane
- Crew = nervous system
- Store = energy/fuel supply
Settlement:
similar analogy but much larger scale!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hehe are we proposing forming a large "quasi-guild" and invading another game en masse? Providing those rascals some content? Sounds familiar. ;)Spreading such vile ideologies as Not Red Don't Shoot?I suppose that would depend on what exactly the goal or what you were trying to learn by playing together in another game. If it is practice for PVP and territory control, NBSI might be more instructional in a shorter time frame.
Unless I completely miss your point and you are just trying to goad?
I was making a jest that it would be an invasion by the good guys which is the opposite of what we're worried about here.
I'm sure each group can decide their own conduct on any title we go to. TEO will be conforming as closely as possible to how we will behave in PFO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hehe are we proposing forming a large "quasi-guild" and invading another game en masse? Providing those rascals some content? Sounds familiar. ;)Spreading such vile ideologies as Not Red Don't Shoot?I suppose that would depend on what exactly the goal or what you were trying to learn by playing together in another game. If it is practice for PVP and territory control, NBSI might be more instructional in a shorter time frame.
Unless I completely miss your point and you are just trying to goad?
I was making a jest that it would be an invasion by the good guys which is the opposite of what we're worried about here.
I'm sure each group can decide their own conduct on any title we go to. TEO will be conforming as closely as possible to how we will behave in PFO.
Gotcha Sir. No offense meant. I was just curious to see if you were pointing out, and suggesting that, any "conglomerate group" from PfO might learn faster by being aggressive, as there is limited time.
My first comment was just a thought that I found humorous enough to share.
So, if you do go to another game to practice co operation, you plan to keep TEO separate from any non denominational PfO group? I can't see us all getting along there operating under only one group's philosophies.
@Nihimon
Am I missing the point of your thread?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bringslight- We will probably operate under separate tags and rulesets than the other groups unless the entire group adopts ideologies we find acceptable. I do not wish to contribute toward what I see as problem behaviors in any title. Especially Darkfall. They are in no need of more NBSI / RPK groups.
My understanding was that we will be working together, but not nessicarily under the same tag.
The Dread Pirate Andius, you're a fan of darkfall?!
Yes. I have quite a history there. For awhile I was spearheading an anti-griefer / non-RPK movement there that was just starting to gain some traction / territory before the wipe was announced. I'm already compiling a list of old allies who may still play in my head.