Horrendous Waking Rune Experience

[Rogue Eidolon]

Walter Sheppard wrote:

andreww wrote:

I was referring to this comment:

** spoiler omitted **

Which seems rather unusual given what is written in the scenario text.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Well we did eventually get the AMF on him, but his wish annihilated it.

"Creatures: The sarcophagus contains Krune’s body,
which is now animate and awaits the release of his soul
from the emerald in area A4. Once the two reunite,
Krune takes a few seconds to assess his situation and
uses his dimensional steps ability to teleport out of
the stone coffin."

AMF's emanation was blocked by the total cover of the sarcophagus, so he wasn't in the AMF initially, that's why he could step out.

[redcapscorner]

Sorry for all the spoiler conversation:

Well, I rolled out all the dice for my spellstrike shocking grasp against Krune, which was intensified and empowered and which crit, and it would have dealt nearly double my full hit points in damage, the majority of which came from the shocking grasp, which--if I'm not mistaken--would have been redirected back at me because of Krune's active spell turning. It would have been my fault, but I'm pretty sure I would have been very, very dead. And if I hadn't killed myself, I'm told Krune's first move was to use horrid wilting and then trap most of us in the other room with a wall of stone. I believe the damage from that horrid wilting (and I definitely would have failed my save) was enough to kill me also, though now that I'm doing the math our GM would have had to have rolled pretty high above average for that to be true. I was playing up with a single-classed d8 HD character with 14 Con. That gives me, what, 67 total HP? I think I had taken a little bit of damage from one of the summoned creatures also.

[andreww]

redcapscorner wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Nope, he has a Ring of Spell Turning but it's a command activated magic item which takes an action to use. It also doesn't affect touch spells. He can use Horrid Wilting but his tactics specifically say that he waits to use this and instead starts off summoning allies and dropping area control.

[LazarX]

Waking Rune is a special case module because it' not just about the characters and the opposition you face within those pages.

It's also about certain decisions you would have made earlier in the year that may just come back to haunt you at the worst possible time. (which might explain the perception of pre-buffing.)

[andreww]

Rogue Eidolon wrote:

Walter Sheppard wrote:

andreww wrote:

I was referring to this comment:

** spoiler omitted **

Which seems rather unusual given what is written in the scenario text.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I agree, he would be protected from the AMF. I was surprised by the suggestion that he would teleport out of his sarcophagus somewhere off stage, summon some allies and somehow come back and trigger a surprise round. As per his write up when he wakes up he spends a few seconds assessing the situation (although how he does this is an interesting question given he is sealed in a sarcophagus) then teleports out to find out what is going on. He only initiates combat if there are obvious non Lissalans there who are trying to ready for a fight or cast a spell.

Relevant text is:

The sarcophagus contains Krune’s body,which is now animate and awaits the release of his soul from the emerald in area A4. Once the two reunite,Krune takes a few seconds to assess his situation and
uses his dimensional steps ability to teleport out of the stone coffin. The moment he spots anyone who isn’t obviously a Lissalan worshipper or otherwise in awe of his return, he assumes that something is amiss
and begins demanding in Thassilonian that the PCs prostrate and identify themselves. Krune is unaware of the past 10,000 years’ history, and he responds to any declaration of this at first with haughty disbelief, then shortly after with calculating acceptance to assertions that Thassilon fell long ago. The Runelord of Sloth is
nearly unflappable and uses any time spent conversing to study his opponents. If he observes anyone but an obvious ally casting a spell or positioning herself for imminent combat, Krune immediately initiates
hostilities against them.

If the gem or sarcophagus are broken then he appears automatically but is staggered for the first round.

[Rogue Eidolon]

andreww wrote:

Rogue Eidolon wrote:

Walter Sheppard wrote:

andreww wrote:

I was referring to this comment:

** spoiler omitted **

Which seems rather unusual given what is written in the scenario text.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

He perceptioned us attacking the sarcophagus and assumed that meant we were itching for a fight. So he went elsewhere in the complex and prepped before returning via dimensional magic. Since we couldn't possibly have noticed his dimensional arrival beforehand and we didn't have a sohei or a diviner or someone with foresight up, that round that he appeared was his surprise round (he also hit us with a quickened wall of stone after arriving, since it wasn't dimension door, so he still had his swift).

It was a glorious fight, and it would have been lame if he didn't leave, buff, and return, so I'm glad he did.

[thistledown]

For us, he was a tough fight, but workable. We had already disabled all 7 runes before the fight. We got some nice swarms on him at the start, and had some strong defenses up. He got us to move around a bit, then got us separated with the wall of stone. Lots of summons helped as meatshields, and we did well on our saves.

And then I just shot him a lot with human-bane adamantine musket cartridges.

[dcjester]

In short, this is a very tough scenario. I have suggested to my normal folks to NOT play pregens for this, and bring the best strategies they can to the table the night we play it. Use your boons, your items, everything you may have that will help.

As a GM, I dont go out of my way to kill players. But this doesnt mean if the dice fall where they may, it wont happen. Without risk of death, then what is the use of playing for reward?

I want my players to always feel like they earned the reward they got at the end. I want them to feel like they accomplished something important.

Sometimes, its good to have that feeling of "I may die in this fight" than "Well, that boss was really a cake walk. Waffles anyone?"

Just my pennies worth :)

[James Martin]

WAFFLES!

[Cybit]

Spoiler:

I'm pretty sure if you're being ruthless on hard mode, you might be able to kill a party outright in the first round. IIRC, you can do 180 damage (assuming players make all saves)

The difficulty of Waking Rune is different than any other Season 4 Scenario as best as I can tell.

[Lab_Rat]

Cybit wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

The difficulty of Waking Rune is different than any other Season 4 Scenario as best as I can tell.

Spoiler:

Yep. My GM opened with that one. Three players were out of sight (around the corner or invisible), one player made their save, and the other two used re-rolls to live.

[Millefune]

I've run and played it. When we played, we succeeded in the low-tier, but it took a while. When I ran it, two people had to burn prestige to come back from the dead. It's a tough fight, and if players aren't prepped and don't do the work in the scenario needed to be done, they die. It's definitely not the "easy mode" most players seem to think PSOP is.

[Tim Hitchcock]

You know... I make the encounters too soft, people complain.
I make the encounters too hard people complain.

Its a crapshoot. Lots of PFS players really work hard to optimize their characters so they function at a CR higher (perhaps more) than a typical character so its a tough juggling act.

Thus, you get the play up/play down option. Its supposed to help folks pick a path more towards their style of playing. Perhaps the GMs should stress that aspect more when preparing to run a group. I think often people get too hyped about playing the hard mode, but in my opinion, Hard mode is for crunch players who dig min/maxing and optimizing stats and the other mode is for fluff players who build characters based on their backgrounds and stories.
Yeah, I know there are folks out there that do both, but really everyone knows whether they lean towards power gaming or method acting. If the GMs stress that to their players first, then the players have little to complain about if they decide to run hardmode and get TPKed. Or if they run soft mode and its too easy.

The key is really trying to figure out what kind of game your players want to play. Make the players happy and you will have a good game. So yeah, get excited about finding the mode that'll make your players most happy instead of getting excited about making the players play up. The objective isn't to kill their characters, its to make everyone have fun.

[powell01]

When I played it we had two permanent deaths on the table with two others dying and only one lived. We also run away like little girls at every opportunity after the first fight. We all really enjoyed it though, even those who permanently lost characters. It made it a suspenseful game. One of the few mods out their I would consider using my GM replay stars on.

[James Martin]

Well, the way I see it is: You're up against a Runelord, one of the great Big Bad Evils of the setting. You WANT an epic experience. If you didn't, why are you playing this module?!?

[Verrine]

We ran two tables. Well we TRIED to run two tables. Mine didn't make it through the first encounter. The other one had lost 2 players by the time I left. Both GMs warned us. It's the first time I've gotten a chronicle sheet where I spent money and Prestige Points (Society game) instead of earning them. Our Venture Lieutenant was m-a-d at how overpowered the scenario was.

[trollbill]

James Martin wrote:

Well, the way I see it is: You're up against a Runelord, one of the great Big Bad Evils of the setting. You WANT an epic experience. If you didn't, why are you playing this module?!?

This is more observation than complaint, but if this were a home game where the Runelord and the final confrontation with him were built up to a crescendo where you know going in what you are going to face and have plenty of game time to prep, then it should be an epic challenge. And if you had played all the year 4 mods you would have had a similar experience to that. Problem is, there is no garauntee anyone sitting down for this game has played a single year 4 mod prior to this one. For all they know they signed up for the latest game available and have no clue it's supposed to be an epic finalee. Don't get me wrong. I think having an epic season finally is great. And this mod is certainly epic. But a little more warning might cut down on some of the unexpected butchery.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

trollbill wrote:

James Martin wrote:

Well, the way I see it is: You're up against a Runelord, one of the great Big Bad Evils of the setting. You WANT an epic experience. If you didn't, why are you playing this module?!?

This is more observation than complaint, but if this were a home game where the Runelord and the final confrontation with him were built up to a crescendo where you know going in what you are going to face and have plenty of game time to prep, then it should be an epic challenge. And if you had played all the year 4 mods you would have had a similar experience to that. Problem is, there is no garauntee anyone sitting down for this game has played a single year 4 mod prior to this one. For all they know they signed up for the latest game available and have no clue it's supposed to be an epic finalee. Don't get me wrong. I think having an epic season finally is great. And this mod is certainly epic. But a little more warning might cut down on some of the unexpected butchery.

I would just advise players who have this sort of question, that if you see its a late season scenario (number is in the 20's) then its probably supposed to be an epic end to that season's storyline.

And if you aren't playing season 4 scenarios for an entire year, and then play a final to season 4, it kinda is your own fault (or the coordinators in your area), don't you think?

[terry_t_uk]

Maybe you should post warnings on the scenario - this is a year end finale. Playing other scenarios in from this year would be helpful
OR
as we had in at least one LG module "We recommend you do not play up"

[Rerednaw]

Andrew Christian wrote:

...

And if you aren't playing season 4 scenarios for an entire year, and then play a final to season 4, it kinda is your own fault (or the coordinators in your area), don't you think?

Um...for year 4, I have exactly ONE played (Kirin). Most of the adventures for our monthly game day were seasons 1-3. I have also played online. Again, none of them were season 4. This out of around 20 adventures. I don't have anyone high enough to play this yet.

The only reason I know Runelord means "ick" is because I bought a campaign called Rise of the Runelords. Had to get that rocking metal bound and locked black leather case. Have not read it yet mind you. But I'm assuming that Runelord means = major player in Golarion.

My only suggestion would be to add "Recommended that players have played X, Y, and Z, etc...adventures before embarking on this one." to the flavor/fluff descriptor.

I don't mind a hard mod if it's all legit and not GM fiat hard. I especially enjoy out-thinking a challenge. As opposed to simply whaling and seeing who has max DPR. Though I've done that too ;)

I've had many many characters die (one-hits from surprise, bleeding out because no one could help, save or dies, etc.) in organized play.

None in Pathfinder yet, oddly enough.

[trollbill]

Andrew Christian wrote:

I would just advise players who have this sort of question, that if you see its a late season scenario (number is in the 20's) then its probably supposed to be an epic end to that season's storyline.

Which is, of course, a good warning, which is rather my point.

Interestingly, even though I have been playing PFS for a little over a year, have played it at Cons, read these boards and even have played Portal of the Sacred Rune (the finale for Year 3) I did not realize that it was PFS's habit to have especially challenging season finales until this discussion. It makes sense in retrospect and I think its a good idea. It just never occurred to me until now.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Rerednaw wrote:

Andrew Christian wrote:

...

And if you aren't playing season 4 scenarios for an entire year, and then play a final to season 4, it kinda is your own fault (or the coordinators in your area), don't you think?

Um...for year 4, I have exactly ONE played (Kirin). Most of the adventures for our monthly game day were seasons 1-3. I have also played online. Again, none of them were season 4. This out of around 20 adventures. I don't have anyone high enough to play this yet.

The only reason I know Runelord means "ick" is because I bought a campaign called Rise of the Runelords. Had to get that rocking metal bound and locked black leather case. Have not read it yet mind you. But I'm assuming that Runelord means = major player in Golarion.

My only suggestion would be to add "Recommended that players have played X, Y, and Z, etc...adventures before embarking on this one." to the flavor/fluff descriptor.

I don't mind a hard mod if it's all legit and not GM fiat hard. I especially enjoy out-thinking a challenge. As opposed to simply whaling and seeing who has max DPR. Though I've done that too ;)

I've had many many characters die (one-hits from surprise, bleeding out because no one could help, save or dies, etc.) in organized play.

None in Pathfinder yet, oddly enough.

So why don't your game day coordinators schedule the current season? That seems a bit odd

[kinevon]

Andrew Christian wrote:

Rerednaw wrote:

Andrew Christian wrote:

...

And if you aren't playing season 4 scenarios for an entire year, and then play a final to season 4, it kinda is your own fault (or the coordinators in your area), don't you think?

Um...for year 4, I have exactly ONE played (Kirin). Most of the adventures for our monthly game day were seasons 1-3. I have also played online. Again, none of them were season 4. This out of around 20 adventures. I don't have anyone high enough to play this yet.

The only reason I know Runelord means "ick" is because I bought a campaign called Rise of the Runelords. Had to get that rocking metal bound and locked black leather case. Have not read it yet mind you. But I'm assuming that Runelord means = major player in Golarion.

My only suggestion would be to add "Recommended that players have played X, Y, and Z, etc...adventures before embarking on this one." to the flavor/fluff descriptor.

I don't mind a hard mod if it's all legit and not GM fiat hard. I especially enjoy out-thinking a challenge. As opposed to simply whaling and seeing who has max DPR. Though I've done that too ;)

I've had many many characters die (one-hits from surprise, bleeding out because no one could help, save or dies, etc.) in organized play.

None in Pathfinder yet, oddly enough.

So why don't your game day coordinators schedule the current season? That seems a bit odd

It is an artifact from when we had a local convention, and the Game Day coordinators would save the newest scenarios for the convention.

Most of us are still getting over the lose of NeonCon, to be honest, and it still affects some of our attitudes.

Mike, we should discuss this issue with Perry (Game Day organizer) and Chris (local VC) at some point...

[Millefune]

Millefune wrote:

I've run and played it. When we played, we succeeded in the low-tier, but it took a while. When I ran it, two people had to burn prestige to come back from the dead. It's a tough fight, and if players aren't prepped and don't do the work in the scenario needed to be done, they die. It's definitely not the "easy mode" most players seem to think PSOP is.

My most recent session for this was GMing it on 28 August 2013. The party failed at the first encounter, due to bad dice rolls and tactics. I warned the players ahead of time that the scenario was meant to be tough, and was the season finale. Some still got frustrated about the loss.

I personally like the "hard mode" addition, despite the fact that I've yet to run a hard mode session of the scenario. Pathfinder unfortunately is really set up for munchkin/power-gamer play. The power creep from 2008 to now has made the game a paradise for power-gamers. Look over a Season 0 scenario for fun just to see how much more powerful Pathfinder characters are compared to 3.X D&D. Anyway, the addition of the hard mode option is great. It gives the power-gamers and munchkins something to brag about and boost their egos.

My area has the problem of the previous area GMs not knowing the rules, and soft-balling the scenarios. I'm not a adversarial player killer GM, and my area knows that I don't play against the players. However, the players had gotten accustomed to walking through scenarios, and being able to fluster one particular GM with rules and debates to make her bypass some of the challenges, because she didn't want to deal with actually finding out how things are supposed to be ruled/adjudicated.

So the point of all that, is to explain that a lot of PSOP players complaining about the challenge of The Waking Rune may be complaining because they've grown accustomed to easy mode GMs. TBH, my personal experience at conventions and visits to other areas supports this. There are many GMs out there that aren't as skilled with the rules, or are just too nice (or perhaps afraid of backlash from players/community for character deaths). Due to all of the above, players aren't familiar with taking responsibility for their own actions and mistakes. They tend to either blame the GM or the scenario writers, rather than reflect and see what they may have done wrong, or what they could have done differently to succeed.

[Jason Wu]

I will agree that a party that realizes, "Oh, wow, we're being sent in against a Runelord, we better prep" is going to do a LOT better than one that just thinks it's going to be a run of the mill adventure.

Spoiler:

Facing the first encounter I can't honestly say if it would have been especially hard or not because when you get the gunslinger critting on a full attack, well, very few opponents survive long enough to start throwing deadly powers around. It seems a ranged party will do better than a melee one though.

The main fight was challenging but not absurdly so. It was helped by the party deactivating all the runes (I understand we were one of the few tables at DragonCon to accomplish this, if not the only one - it helps that one of the PCs is a massive packrat, carrying literally five extradimensional bags worth of junk on the off chance it might become useful. Turns out it was!). The GM was smart enough to tie up the gunslinger with various things so she couldn't get off full attacks. Overall, the frontline guys got beaten up pretty badly but no deaths.

I definately think the party prepping before we were sent off made a huge difference. We asked the right questions and bought a bunch of consumables before leaving. As a GM I would likely hint to a party that yes, you do in fact want to stop and prep before we transport you into hell.

-j

[Rycaut]

I'm hoping to play this at least twice (GM star replay) once with my level 11 who has gone through most of the season 4 high tiers (and yup that probably means he is screwed) and a second time with my character most likely to survive - my paladin/bard/dragon disciple who by the time he is level 11 will be quite a tanking and smiting (and occasionally casting) machine. He'll have a 26 STR, 22 CHA, paladin saves, 12+ uses of lay on hands (for 5d6+10 when used on himself assuming he isn't sickened) and lots of great tricks like Bladed Dash when he needs them.

He probably will survive given his very high AC, HP, ability to self heal and tanking ability.

My dirty trick rogue/fighter/monk on the other hand probably will have a far harder time.

[Cold Napalm]

Millefune wrote:

Millefune wrote:

I've run and played it. When we played, we succeeded in the low-tier, but it took a while. When I ran it, two people had to burn prestige to come back from the dead. It's a tough fight, and if players aren't prepped and don't do the work in the scenario needed to be done, they die. It's definitely not the "easy mode" most players seem to think PSOP is.

My most recent session for this was GMing it on 28 August 2013. The party failed at the first encounter, due to bad dice rolls and tactics. I warned the players ahead of time that the scenario was meant to be tough, and was the season finale. Some still got frustrated about the loss.

I personally like the "hard mode" addition, despite the fact that I've yet to run a hard mode session of the scenario. Pathfinder unfortunately is really set up for munchkin/power-gamer play. The power creep from 2008 to now has made the game a paradise for power-gamers. Look over a Season 0 scenario for fun just to see how much more powerful Pathfinder characters are compared to 3.X D&D. Anyway, the addition of the hard mode option is great. It gives the power-gamers and munchkins something to brag about and boost their egos.

My area has the problem of the previous area GMs not knowing the rules, and soft-balling the scenarios. I'm not a adversarial player killer GM, and my area knows that I don't play against the players. However, the players had gotten accustomed to walking through scenarios, and being able to fluster one particular GM with rules and debates to make her bypass some of the challenges, because she didn't want to deal with actually finding out how things are supposed to be ruled/adjudicated.

So the point of all that, is to explain that a lot of PSOP players complaining about the challenge of The Waking Rune may be complaining because they've grown accustomed to easy mode GMs. TBH, my personal experience at conventions and visits to other areas supports this. There are many GMs out there that aren't as skilled with the rules, or...

Wait wait wait...you think that 3.5 has LESS power then PFS...even currently?!? I'm sorry...3.5 about halfway into it's life cycle was stupid silly in power creep. By the end, you could stumble and accidently break the game due to the sheer number of ways to do so.

Also going core only, you can still do stupid broken stuff. A core wizard is still stupid powerful. Very few options in the additional books...other then spells, really goes beyond this...and very few of the spells are better then the core benchmark stuff. So there has been very limited power creep. What there has been is power balance where things not full casters can have nice stuff too. That's actually a GOOD thing. What has happened however is that there has been a shift from casual player with casual builds playing casual tactics being able to do okay (season 0-3) to a more challenge oriented play base. That is because the game has been out for a while now and we have a bigger more experienced base who wants more challenges. The danger is to estrange new players by catering to these too much (seriously, some of the later APs and modules even have me going, really? REALLY?!? a few times). Also note that I have seen players bring the big boy builds into games and STILL get decimated. That is because the build doesn't do anything on it's own. Player tactics > builds.

[TetsujinOni]

Tim Hitchcock wrote:

You know... I make the encounters too soft, people complain.

I make the encounters too hard people complain.

Its a crapshoot. Lots of PFS players really work hard to optimize their characters so they function at a CR higher (perhaps more) than a typical character so its a tough juggling act.

<stuff />
The key is really trying to figure out what kind of game your players want to play. Make the players happy and you will have a good game. So yeah, get excited about finding the mode that'll make your players most happy instead of getting excited about making the players play up. The objective isn't to kill their characters, its to make everyone have fun.

As I said in my review, i think it's aimed just about right. My GM'd tables are 50% success rate on it, and their ability to succeed or not was based on the tables' ability to deal with challenges that aren't insurmountable (but boy, they can be tough!!!).

I think you did a great job putting together the full-scenario-boss-fight of a 24 hour adventure (I count Portal of the Sacred Rune as the first part of this arc, personally), Tim, and I am pretty sure I told you so at PaizoCon.

[Kyrie Ebonblade]

Jason Wu wrote:

I will agree that a party that realizes, "Oh, wow, we're being sent in against a Runelord, we better prep" is going to do a LOT better than one that just thinks it's going to be a run of the mill adventure.

** spoiler omitted **

-j

We haven't play it yet, BUT we are already discussing which PCs and tactics we are going to use. We don't expect a cake walk.

Truthfully, we are expecting an ass kicking.

[Soluzar]

My group took this adventure slowly. We were very thorough in taking down Krune's defenses (all of them). The first encounter ended up being the hardest on us (lotta people failed saves).

Ownage:

After taking down all of Krune's protectors we buffed up and healed. We were all in ready melee positions at the casket when we triggered the encounter. Krune emerged and was cut down in seconds. He lost initiative and was dispatched as soon as he emerged. He ended up taking multiple crits.

[redcapscorner]

At the risk of spoiling anything, there's a good reason why Paizo can't recommend people play the meta-plot scenarios leading up to this. The best they could do is put a big "this is hard, we promise" warning on it, but really that should be on the GM/organizer.

[Akerlof]

Cold Napalm wrote:

Wait wait wait...you think that 3.5 has LESS power then PFS...even currently?!? I'm sorry...3.5 about halfway into it's life cycle was stupid silly in power creep. By the end, you could stumble and accidently break the game due to the sheer number of ways to do so.

It's not a function of 3.5, it's a function of how the scenarios were written: I GM'd a season 0 last weekend where every enemy in sub tier 1-2 but the BBEG had an AC of 12, 5 or 6 HP, and attacking at either +1 or -1. There were a lot of them in each fight, and the encounters were interesting, but they weren't particularly dangerous. The BBEG knocked out two PCs because they rushed in and caught him in a choke point behind difficult terrain, (the absolute worst thing they could have done,) and one of them gave him an AoO trying to acrobatics through for a flank. But he attacked at +5 for 1d8+1d6+2 20/x2. This isn't unique, I know of at least one other season 0 where nobody but the final boss has a AC higher than 12 and single digit hit points.

Compare that to a season 4 where 2 of the 3 non boss fights involve alchemist fire throwing enemies (and an actual alchemist with bombs) from behind defensive terrain. The BBEG attacked at +9 for 1d10+6 20/x3 with a reach weapon.

I'm not sure that PFS allowed all of the 3.5 options in season 0. I didn't play back then, but I got hints of that from reading some of the GM threads on the old scenarios.

[TetsujinOni]

Akerlof, Season 0 used only SRD content from 3.5.

It was also built using the straight up CR system for 4 players and non-heroic point-buy character building.

Good encounter design is something that has gotten more and more traction in PFS as time has gone on. Good encounter design isn't primarily about the stat blocks, though they can limit or enhance the encounter design.

Good encounter design is about having a challenge that is dynamic and interesting and helps to advance the plot. Sometimes they're overtuned and sometimes they're undertuned and sometimes they've got a bard who can't carry a tune...

[MICHAEL DANNEMILLER]

I'm really lukewarm about the whole thing. I'm glad I did it, but my group wants to use GM stars to replay it at 10-11, and I'm not sure I'm sold.

Spoiler:

First two fights weren't that difficult. We had buffed before we went in, b/c we thought we were going to teleport straight into a fight, turns out we were right, so we had our defenses up.

Runelord himself didn't feel that bad. From previous sessions we had learned that he was a conjuration specialist, so we figured, the worst conjuration spell you can get hit with is cloudkill, so we had purchased a scroll of life bubble, which negated that issue and acid fog.

It was more annoying than anything, with him going through walls/teleporting between the inner and outer rooms and conjuring stuff. The individual summonings weren't that hard. However, we did all get hit by an empowered Horrid Withering which outright killed 1 party member, and almost knocked everyone else unconscious. Thankfully our life oracle didnt get hit by it, and was able to channel everyone back up.

The cleric had cast whatever the +2d6 damage against evil creatures on the zen archer, and that was largely responsible for the fight ending quickly. We also went in with only 2/6 runes down, b/c we had no way of entangling the one rune, or dealing negative energy damage of any kind.

I love crunchy fights, so I'm all for hard content, but this was just kind of annoying more than anything.