Lets keep a list of those heroic Pathfinders who have fallen at GenCon in service of the Society here.
Here's a template:
Name:
Class/Level:
Faction:
Details:
Most of me hopes it's a small list, but the CN side is looking for some carnage.
But all of me hopes everyone has fun.
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I thought coup de grace was a tactic that Mike Brock specifically said should not be used unless literally called for by the scenario tactics?
I have no idea...but canines trained to attack do exactly that in the real world. If it makes sense, it should happen -- I personally wouldn't want it any other way. YMMV. :)
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Eh, you'd still be dead if they had made regular attacks I'm sure. :)
Actually, I wouldn't. I didn't run out of hit points...I failed the fort save. But like I said, I'm have no problem with a wolf going for the throat of an unconscious person. But I'm ruthless like that. :P
(But I did learn something new in this thread that I will be adhering to as a PFS GM -- no coup de gras unless explicitly called out in the monster's tactics).
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THIS is the closest I could find, but I don't think it means it has to literally be written into the tactics. That would be... well. I'll give him a chance to clarify.
Mark and I discussed this. The scenarios are to be GMed as written. This isn't a grey area. I'm more concerned with a GM who thinks he can adequately adjust a scenario to better challenge the party and then kills PCs because extra creatures were added, or harder DCs were assigned to traps, or a coup de grace not written in the tactics, or any number of other circumstances a GM could change. There also is the added consideration that if a GM increases the difficulty of a scenario, you are also burning up more resources of the PCs that other players didn't have to, thus causing the PCs at your adjusted scenario table to spend more gold than they should have had to. It opens a Pandora's Box that just doesn't need to be opened. GM the scenarios as written please.
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Because sometimes the tactics section is ambiguous. They have already said that you don't have to follow the tactics when they aren't possible or don't make sense, so obviously there is some GM discretion when the party comes in and *^%$ the bad guy's plans.
If an animal or non-intelligent undead has a helpless creature adjacent and no threat near, I shouldn't have to be given express permission by the scenario author to do what I know the creature will do.
But even so, even if he means exactly what he said. Are they going to go back to every old scenario and say which ones do and don't allow a coup de grace? Are they going to issue guidelines to authors to tell them what they have to specifically spell out in the tactics section?
Look, I don't think that GMs should ever maliciously kill a character, coup de grace or no. I also don't think the campaign management should hobble GMs any more than they already have. All I'm asking is that we give Mike a chance to say "Yes, I really meant literally this" or "No, I meant 'when it wouldn't make sense according to the tactics'."
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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My main character died Saturday night during #05-03 The Hellknight's Feast. How did it happen?
In the fight with the wraiths, my cleric took some damage in the first round. I have against the con drain. The next round, I took a critical hit from the con draining attack, and lost 12 points of con. I only had 10.
Now, I was a level 5 cleric. We were at a full table of 6 players. The APL came out to 6.8, or 7 (mid-tier.) Because we had 6, under the new rules, we were required to play high tier.
Alas, having never spent any prestige, I had plenty to buy the raise dead (and I had a boon that discounted that purchase by 50%) and the TWO Restorations I needed to remove the negative levels.
It was most certainly not a pleasant experience (dying, I mean - the scenario was tremendously entertaining for me, actually.)
Mark
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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Lets keep a list of those heroic Pathfinders who have fallen at GenCon in service of the Society here.
Here's a template:
Name:
Class/Level:
Faction:
Details:Most of me hopes it's a small list, but the CN side is looking for some carnage.
But all of me hopes everyone has fun.
Do you mean any deaths or just permanent ones?
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Alas, having never spent any prestige, I had plenty to buy the raise dead (and I had a boon that discounted that purchase by 50%) and the TWO Restorations I needed to remove the negative levels.
Mark
Please note that Raise Dead will not work if you were turned into wraith.
Lets keep a list of those heroic Pathfinders who have fallen at GenCon in service of the Society here.
Here's a template:
Name:
Class/Level:
Faction:
Details:Most of me hopes it's a small list, but the CN side is looking for some carnage.
But all of me hopes everyone has fun.
Abtuar
Barbarian 8Qadira
Died to coup de grace in Words of the Ancients.
Last night he died in Bonekeep 2 to Phantasmal Killer.
--Ron
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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Candidly, I thought about just leaving him dead. He's my first character (yet he is number 2, so I'm not sure what happened to number 1.) At any rate, I thought, "man, I gave him all these boons and he's got the PP to do it...it'd be a waste to leave him dead."
But I honestly thought about letting him die his hero's death.
Mark
Do you mean any deaths or just permanent ones?Lets keep a list of those heroic Pathfinders who have fallen at GenCon in service of the Society here.
Here's a template:
Name:
Class/Level:
Faction:
Details:Most of me hopes it's a small list, but the CN side is looking for some carnage.
But all of me hopes everyone has fun.
Any deaths.
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Alas, having never spent any prestige, I had plenty to buy the raise dead (and I had a boon that discounted that purchase by 50%) and the TWO Restorations I needed to remove the negative levels.
MarkPlease note that Raise Dead will not work if you were turned into wraith.
** spoiler omitted **
I was at Mark's table. The GM stated (approximately) that since the wraith Mark transformed into was killed by the party several rounds thereafter, the character's soul was free and raise dead would work.
If that was incorrect information...
Mark, if we're allowed @ this point: my character is willing to chip in $ for the resto (former shadow lodge with the "Spirit of the Shadow Lodge" boon. PM me.
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I GM'd most of the Con, but I'm going I write in some of the memorable deaths I caused.
I don't remember the name of this character
Fighter(4 I believe)
He died in Bonekeep 1. For half the fights it ended up being an up-down situation where every turn I'd drop him, and the rest of the party would heal him. Eventually explosive bombs plus other minions to distract completed the TPK.
Seelah
Paladin 7
Pregens do Grand Lodge
Fortress of the Nail: these were a group of 6 players who were new to pathfinder, but very experienced gamers. All in all a great group. As per new rules, a table of 6 on mid tier play the 8-9 difficulty at the 4 person difficulty. For those who have played at 8-9 or GM'd this, you know why this probably wasn't enough. The opening f te second fight dropped half the party. The last one standing who didn't flee, the 4hp paladin took 111 damage in a full attack.
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I was at the same table as Mark and Sabre Saturday night. We were mid-tier APL7 with 6 players in a 5-9 and, per the new rules: "A party of five to seven characters whose APL is between two subtiers must play the higher tier with the four-character adjustment."
Now having read the scenario, I believe the wrong number and type of creatures were used for that encounter where Mark's character was killed. I don't think there was any ill-intent in the error. The scenario was fun and the GM was great. But the rules are new and it is possible the copy provided to GMs before GenCon was altered later.
Since we can't know what the outcome would have been with reduced numbers of creatures and different creatures, would this be a case of letting ruling at the table stand via divine (Campaign Management) intervention? Otherwise, I'd be happy to contribute to your resurrection if possible.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I was at the same table as Mark and Sabre Saturday night. We were mid-tier APL7 with 6 players in a 5-9 and, per the new rules: "A party of five to seven characters whose APL is between two subtiers must play the higher tier with the four-character adjustment."
Now having read the scenario, I believe the wrong number and type of creatures were used for that encounter where Mark's character was killed. I don't think there was any ill-intent in the error. The scenario was fun and the GM was great. But the rules are new and it is possible the copy provided to GMs before GenCon was altered later.
Since we can't know what the outcome would have been with reduced numbers of creatures and different creatures, would this be a case of letting ruling at the table stand via divine (Campaign Management) intervention? Otherwise, I'd be happy to contribute to your resurrection if possible.
Wait. The GM (who I agree was excellent) may have used the wrong monster, or too many of them? Wow. If my character died because of that, that would make me most unhappy.
However, my chronicle sheet alreaady looks like a massacre - stuff crossed out, written over, etc. I hope no GM ever asks for it, because I doubt they'd likely believe what happened. But, as it stands, I just used prestige to pay for the resurrection (16 PP instead of 32, thanks to a boon), and cash to buy the two restorations needed. No big deal, really, and the monsters were not supposed to be what killed me, well, live and learn. :)
I certainly appreciate Sabre and Walter offering. But, you know, death is a consequence that all Pathfinders face, and sometimes the fates are more cruel than kind. So, if we want the rewards, we face those risks.
That encounter was DEADLY. I mean, stuff that can drain 1d6 con on a touch attack, and then y ou have 2-3 of them in that single encounter? YOWSA! But it's done, I've paid what I need to pay, and my PC is back in business.
Mark
I did not die at all this weekend and even made it through Bonekeep 1 & 2 (Yay!), although to be fair, I didn't finish part 1 and almost died on part 2.
However, I did have one of the most bizarre experiences in playing PFS in that I was actually dead, but then I wasn't.
We were playing The Secrets Stones Keep
Now, there were only 4 of us at the table, as we originally were 7, and then someone came along who came along that was interested in playing with a generic. So one of the volunteers grabbed another GM and they split the table down to 4.
At this I was a bit leery being a 4th season scenario and playing with only 4 players, but I was assured it would be ok as the CRs are adjusted for four players. I knew that already, but still had that "I have a bad feeling", however I just decided to play on and see how things went.
We were playing the lower tier, and the orc leader (I believe he was a Barbarian) in the caverns demanded that we pay up the 2000 GP he lost or we send our 'champion' to fight him.
We're like, ok, we don't want to spend 500 GP (split 4 ways) for a bribe, so at first I tried to negotiate for 1000 GP, but completely blew my Diplomacy check, so no go. So we decided heck with it, we're just going to fight the orc. We talked about who to send, and as I had the highest to hit and most damage, we decided on me (grumble), although that ended up being a mistake, we should have taken the Gunslinger with an AC well into his 20s.
I actually critted the orc on my first attack and dealed out over 20 points of damage. Ok, this is a good start, the GM said his neck splits wide open and he's gushing, so I think we can do this.
But then the GM has us roll a Perception check, a couple of us made it, including myself, and saw one of the other orcs stagger a bit (when I critted) and then saw the orc's neck begin to heal up.
As you can imagine that had several us asking for Spellcraft checks, which we made, and our Gunslinger starts making accusations of cheating in using magic, the very same accusations the orcs made on how we 'cheated', and then the Gunslinger shot the orc Cleric (?). From there, it promptly fell apart, I was not holding up well against the orc I was fighting as he was dealing out too much damage and others were failing saving throws and running away, or fell when trying to assist me against the orc Barbarian.
The Gunslinger went negative. I died, as well as our Zen Archer. The only person to make it was our Rogue. The GM said we pretty much failed the mission, although he said the Rogue was able to run around the caverns long enough to lead the orcs away from the bodies and then double back and grab us and go (so we didn't have to pay recovery PP).
Of course we were all pretty bummed, and what made it worse was the encounter was not scaled down from what the GM said, as we had a diplomatic option to pay the money. I agreed we should have just paid.
The GM filled out all our chronicle sheets and I used my prestige to raise myself and money for my Restorations. I went to the washroom, which is when I got a phone call from my friend (Rogue).
"Hey, get back here now, the GM realized we were supposed to pay only a 1000 GP, the 2000 was for higher tier."
Oh man. So apparently we did a "Wayne's World" and turned back the clock. The GM took us back to where I was negative and the other party members agreed to pay the 1000. Now, I don't know why he didn't take us before I went negative as we would have agreed before fighting, but hey, I had another chance so I didn't complain!
We paid the money and went on to finish the scenario. :)
I am not sure the rules on this type of situation, but I think the GM felt really bad and wanted to right the situation. Besides the mistake, he was a great GM(I am not going to say who he is), and we all make mistakes! I had a great time and would be honored to play under him again.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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GMing the Special, I saw one of the best PC deaths I've seen in a long while.
Six players, levels 1-4. They were dealing with waves of bad guys. They had had great success for a while, protecting the thing they needed to protect.
A serious threat came up, and the party closed in on it. Including the party's monk, who had not had a lot of success in the adventure thus far. (Go ahead, punch the demon; see how that works out for you.) The bad guy took two PCs into negatives in the first round, and then chose to focus its smite good on the monk. The monk stayed put. The bad guy made three attacks the next round; all were misses, but I'd made clear that any one of them would do significant damage.
The monk provoked an attack of opportunity, giving the party magus a chance to stand up and do damage to the thing. (The attack of opportunity missed). On his turn, the monk tried to trip the bad guy; it didn't work.
The the bad guy swung again, and finally hit. The monk dropped, instantly dead.
At the end of the game, the rest of the party decidd to pay for a raise dead, bt the monk's player advised them not to. He thought this was a good way for that character to die.
Very classy. Very poignant. Some people at the table tossed that player their boon tokens.
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Abtuar
Barbarian 8
Qadira
Died to coup de grace in Words of the Ancients.Last night he died in Bonekeep 2 to Phantasmal Killer.
--Ron
Well you were level 7 at the time.
But it was a pleasure to kill you in Bonekeep 2.
Especially because you killed another PC for me first.
I would have welcomed the chance to kill you :-)
Still killing the level 7 Barbarian at Tier 3-4 is good enough for me.
Books scare barbarian.
And I had a blast playing at your table even though I still carry guilt over killing a party member.
--Ron
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Bonekeep 1, second room.
His companions dragged his body out of the dungeon when they left and he managed to afford a Raise Dead.
He's thoroughly traumatized.
