I'm going to try to post one use of illusion spells each day.
I'm not going to promise you that everything I post will be allowed by the GM, but I believe that everything I post is allowable under RAW.
I hope I'll be able to sustain this for awhile, but we'll have to see. This is mostly a creativity exercise.
Arrow of Piercing
Shadow Conjuration will create objects that are 20% real. So, what happens when you create a bunch of missiles and shoot them at a wall? Seems to me that there is only a 20% chance a shadow missile will stop at the wall. What happens if you can see a target on the other side of that wall and fire at it? The arrow gets a chance to go through the wall, then it may hit the target. If the target gets hit, it takes damage (if the target makes it's will save, the target can take only 20% of the damage).
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Justin Rocket wrote: Shadow Conjuration will create objects that are 20% real. The arrow gets a chance to go through the wall, then it may hit the target. That depends if "20% real" means 20% chance of being on the material plane (at 100% "efficiency"), or on the material plane 100% of the plane but at 20% efficiency.
Fluff (and crunch from the OGL) would seem to suggest the latter, as spells like shadow conjuration would provide a fraction of damage and not a miss chance based don the probability of the "illusion" not to be in the material plane (like incorporeality). Pathfinder treats them now equally, but looking at the parent system gives clues.
So your shadow conjured arrow would have 20% of the penetrating power of a normal arrow, in other words not much, especially once you take hardness into account.
What you're looking for is some sort of phasing ability, which is associated with the school of conjuration unlike etherealness (which is typically transmutation)
Shooting an arrow at a wall would be considered an attack on the wall, at which point the 20% damage rule would apply, not 20% percent chance of a distinct nondamaging effect. So what you'd get is a bunch of arrows bouncing harmlessly off a wall.
Made it one post back in 2013.
How about a silent image fog copy that you practice with your party so they save but the enemy archers only see fog? No save for the enemy until they get up to the fog, you see out but they cannot see in.
I also think the shadow arrows would deal only 20% damage.
Quote: Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless the
affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving
creature takes only one-fifth (20%) damage from the attack.
It says nothing about being able to phase through matter.
Quote: If
the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage,
that effect is only 20% likely to occur.
That said, the spell has phrases like that throughout. Probably why the OP thought that the spell could be 20% real at any given moment.
Still, the idea would be nice for a new spell. Phasing Arrows.
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Mr. Damage wrote: Made it one post back in 2013.
How about a silent image fog copy that you practice with your party so they save but the enemy archers only see fog? No save for the enemy until they get up to the fog, you see out but they cannot see in.
By "practice with your party" I assume you mean "have a code word so they know it's an illusion and attempt a save". No amount of practice will guarantee you make a save though. That said, I like that idea. Other illusion possibilities include a wall, bushes, a boulder or a fake darkened cave mouth.
One of the more effective shadow conjurations is a shadow-conjured create pit. Even a 20% real 30 foot deep pit/extra-dimensional hole is still a 30 foot deep pit/extra-dimensional hole. The falling damage is not caused by the spell and the impact is not illusory. They should definitely get a Will save to disbelieve because falling in is interacting with it, but their belief or disbelief does not change the pit's dimensions, meaning they still need to climb out.
Note that direct effects of the spell DO apply their 20% chance to not occur against those who disbelief. That means the sloped sides may (depending on whether your GM decides its a non-damaging effect or if it's actually just a function of the pit's physical form, in which case it would work anyway) only have a 20% chance of no effect against disbelieving creatures (no chance against those with SR), but they could still jump or get knocked into the pit and take normal falling damage.
Mr. Damage wrote: Made it one post back in 2013.
How about a silent image fog copy that you practice with your party so they save but the enemy archers only see fog? No save for the enemy until they get up to the fog, you see out but they cannot see in.
And what would make you think the enemy needs to touch the illusion to disbelieve? To disbelieve they only need to interact with the illusion. Trying to actively see things covered by the illusion sounds an awful lot like they are trying to interact with it. They could certainly notice anything strange about the fog. As a GM I'd give the NPCs a chance to save after a round of combat. I'd do the same for players as well.
Illusions are powerful, but not all powerful. Especially when you put them under a spotlight and force people to examine them.
The rules to "interacting" require actively spending an action to do so, you don't get to passively save against such things unless you have a special ability that changes that.
baggageboy wrote: The rules to "interacting" require actively spending an action to do so, you don't get to passively save against such things unless you have a special ability that changes that. Mind quoting that?
Illusion says "Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion."
'Interact with it in some fashion' is very vague. Trying to spot things that are using an illusion as cover seems to fall under that umbrella. I wouldn't give them a save the first round, but at the beginning of the second round I would.
If you believe that is unfair, give reasons.
Here's a link to the rules explanaition from the ultimate intrigue book. interacting with illusions for a save. I'm this particular case of the illusory fog whether or not the combatants get a save would be dependent on what actions they were taking, and if those actions directly interact with the fog. It's still in the he's court to decide in the end, but too often illusions are tossed aside without creatures having to take some time to address them.
I hope that helps.
Natan Linggod 327 wrote: Mr. Damage wrote: Made it one post back in 2013.
How about a silent image fog copy that you practice with your party so they save but the enemy archers only see fog? No save for the enemy until they get up to the fog, you see out but they cannot see in.
By "practice with your party" I assume you mean "have a code word so they know it's an illusion and attempt a save". No amount of practice will guarantee you make a save though. That said, I like that idea. Other illusion possibilities include a wall, bushes, a boulder or a fake darkened cave mouth. I think "practice with your party" means the party knows you just cast an illusory fog spell. Per Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief), a Silent Image of a fog cloud will give at least a +4 to the save. At best, they need no save at all ["a character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw"].
/cevah
Mirage Arcana:
Fail your save on purpose.
Use Your imagination.
NEXT
Permanent illusion duplicating my spellbook. I bring the illusory copy with me when I travel. If it gets destroyed by a targeted dispel magic or whatever (cause a fireball sure isn't going to faze it...), I've got the original back home.
I chose to fail the save when I created it, and so can 'interact with it' normally, turning pages and carrying it around, despite it being somewhere between a figment of my imagination and a hologram...
(Sadly the illusory copy can't use the old 'secret page spell to double the number of spells it can hold' trick, but it's still mostly indestructible, and easily replaced, so that's a plus.)
Very clever :) I like this idea.
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Set wrote: Permanent illusion duplicating my spellbook. Not sure what illusion spell you used for it, but I think that has inherent hiccups in it. If it was permanent image (or practically any other image spell) you could only move it around (ie. 'bring the illusory copy with me when I travel') by concentrating every round you move, which is a standard action. Besides that, almost any other illusion has a range limitation, typically an area of 10-foot cubes when you place it that it can't move out of regardless.
Even if it was a mobile image, like disguise self that followed you, there would be issues. I have no problem with a magical disguise that makes it look like you are carrying a spellbook, even an open one (it can make greatswords look like you are carrying a dagger). But allowing it to contain actual, detailed information on demand is a bit far-fetched. For instance, I wouldn't let someone's illusory disguise be an illusory book of common to goblin translation or a dictionary that they can read through and use or study at will without it being a specifically created object akin to creating a magic item. Even so, you can't put it in your backpack and walk around, it would just drift though (without the aforementioned concentration) and it would be subject to being dispelled.
Since you have to be able to visualize the image of the item when you cast it, it would be far-fetched that you got every page, symbol, and detail exactly right without having the book out when you did and flipped through every single page. That means the casting and creation of the illusion likely takes as long as studying an entire spellbook (which is theoretically do-able). But you'd have to repeat this every time you put a new spell in your actual book if you wanted it stay current.
While I might allow an illusory spell page to allow preparation, this basically is bordering on you just preparing spells from your memory of the spell page and I don't think even things like eidetic memory or memory recalling magics allow that very often.
Pizza Lord wrote: Set wrote: Permanent illusion duplicating my spellbook. Not sure what illusion spell you used for it, but I think that has inherent hiccups in it. If it was permanent image (or practically any other image spell) you could only move it around (ie. 'bring the illusory copy with me when I travel') by concentrating every round you move, which is a standard action. Besides that, almost any other illusion has a range limitation, typically an area of 10-foot cubes when you place it that it can't move out of regardless.
Even if it was a mobile image, like disguise self that followed you, there would be issues. I have no problem with a magical disguise that makes it look like you are carrying a spellbook, even an open one (it can make greatswords look like you are carrying a dagger). But allowing it to contain actual, detailed information on demand is a bit far-fetched. For instance, I wouldn't let someone's illusory disguise be an illusory book of common to goblin translation or a dictionary that they can read through and use or study at will without it being a specifically created object akin to creating a magic item. Even so, you can't put it in your backpack and walk around, it would just drift though (without the aforementioned concentration) and it would be subject to being dispelled.
Since you have to be able to visualize the image of the item when you cast it, it would be far-fetched that you got every page, symbol, and detail exactly right without having the book out when you did and flipped through every single page. That means the casting and creation of the illusion likely takes as long as studying an entire spellbook (which is theoretically do-able). But you'd have to repeat this every time you put a new spell in your actual book if you wanted it stay current.
While I might allow an illusory spell page to allow preparation, this basically is bordering on you just preparing spells from your memory of the spell page and I don't think even things like eidetic memory or... Maybe reverse the plan? Leave 1 (*or more) illusionary copies in a safe place(s) as backups. It's definitely cheaper and might be a lot quicker than recopying 70+ spells... With regards to adding stuff, well, cast a second illusion of another volume with whatever new stuff you want to add.
PS. Looking at the illusion spells, you could probably make the original plan work with Permanent Hallucination on yourself. The script is whenever you say the key phrase, a copy of your spellbook pops out of the ether into your hand, and exists until you say the cancellation phrase... The downside would be that when adventuring if someone hit you with a dispel magic, your "spellbook" might just go poof (and an antimagic field WOULD kill it) until you could recast the illusion. Still a pretty decent trick though. You could have a backup copy if you have a minion (familiar) who's senses you can see through...
PPS. This might be a good method of actually making spellbooks, rather than using regular spell books. Your Xth level and have bought a scroll of ***. You then read the scroll and prepare to transcribe it into your spell book, but instead, cast a permanent illusion of a spellbook with that individual spell in it. Now you have "spellbook" to prepare that spell from. As weightless, no cost, virtual books, this advantageous. ( This will save you writing costs, but presumably, this process would still evaporate the scroll in question. If your DM rules otherwise, well gravy!).
Prestidigitation should be one of your very first illusions. The spell says it can paint weird colors and also says it has other functions as long as you don't duplicate existing spells. I don't think there's a 2 dimensional image-limited illusion spell, so between being able to make basic colors and craft simple 2-d shapes, Prestidigitation should be able to make very simple, crude images in illusory form.
I've used this, or rather my Valet Familiar has, in a campaign. Step 1, send the Valet (an owl) with a CL2 scroll of Vanish cast on it flying ahead in the dungeon to spot as much as it can. Step 2, when it returns it crafts a 2-d map with Prestidigitation to show the party what's coming. Any obvious monsters/doors/objects of interest can be marked with red dots/x's/whatever on the surface of the map.
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