Sleeves of Many Garments: Physical or illusion?


Rules Questions


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleev es-of-many-garments

The aura is of illusion and it requires an illusion spell, but the verbage seems to have more in common with a transmutation effect: It uses "transform" while all illusion effects I can find say something about appearance or looking like/as though while all uses of "transform" are physical changes. The requirement the new clothing be "mundane" is also weird for an illusion but standard for transmutation.

This is important because a lot of clothing has mundane bonuses (such as weather appropriate clothing).


I would say it is just an illusion. It is based off of a "Glamer" spell which is an illusion. I quote from the CRB:

"Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear."

All it changes is "sensory qualities" - it doesn't really change the reality. So using these sleeves, the clothing will look and feel real, if someone touches the user's glamered clothes, they will feel like what they look like, not what they are. But it is still just sensory qualities, not reality.

Which means, no bonuses from special clothing.


It's an item that created from an illusion glamer spell and radiates faint illusion magic. So they are an illusion.

The question is really: Do these glamered clothes give the mechanical bonuses of the clothes they pretend to be?

I would say no.


deuxhero wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleev es-of-many-garments

The aura is of illusion and it requires an illusion spell, but the verbage seems to have more in common with a transmutation effect: It uses "transform" while all illusion effects I can find say something about appearance or looking like/as though while all uses of "transform" are physical changes. The requirement the new clothing be "mundane" is also weird for an illusion but standard for transmutation.

This is important because a lot of clothing has mundane bonuses (such as weather appropriate clothing).

If you read the description of sleeves of many garments it is quite clear the effect is an illusion - the text reads "transforms THE APPEARANCE of her current garments" so its THE APPEARANCE that transforms, not the actual garments. As pointed out, that's why the aura is faint illusion and the creation requires an illusion spell (disguise self). You clothing doesn't change whilst wearing the sleeves, just the appearance of your clothing. Hope that helps.


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Timothy Ferdinand wrote:
deuxhero wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleev es-of-many-garments

The aura is of illusion and it requires an illusion spell, but the verbage seems to have more in common with a transmutation effect: It uses "transform" while all illusion effects I can find say something about appearance or looking like/as though while all uses of "transform" are physical changes. The requirement the new clothing be "mundane" is also weird for an illusion but standard for transmutation.

This is important because a lot of clothing has mundane bonuses (such as weather appropriate clothing).

If you read the description of sleeves of many garments it is quite clear the effect is an illusion - the text reads "transforms THE APPEARANCE of her current garments" so its THE APPEARANCE that transforms, not the actual garments. As pointed out, that's why the aura is faint illusion and the creation requires an illusion spell (disguise self). You clothing doesn't change whilst wearing the sleeves, just the appearance of your clothing. Hope that helps.

If you read the errata for Ultimate Equipment it is quite clear that the phrase “the appearance of” wasn't added to the description until three years after the people that you are lecturing left this thread.

UE Errata wrote:
Page 275—In sleeves of many garments, in the second sentence, after “transform”, add “the appearance of”.

They were debating the interpretation of the original description which lacked that phrase. (Which astonishingly is still the version on the PRD.)

UE, 1st printing wrote:

SLEEVES OF MANY GARMENTS

These translucent cloth tubes easily fit over their wearer's arms. The wearer of these sleeves can, when she slips them on, choose to transform her current garments into any other nonmagical set of clothing. These new clothes fit her perfectly and are always clean and mended unless she specifically designates otherwise. When she removes the sleeves, her clothes revert to their original form.

The FAQ that Pink Dragon cited came out about a year after this thread had ended, so they wouldn't have known about that either.

This sort of confusion is one reason that bringing back very old threads is usually not a good idea.

Sczarni

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Gisher wrote:
This sort of confusion is one reason that bringing back very old threads is usually not a good idea.

+1

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