I have a Rogue/Wizard, he specialized in the teleportation school which gives him the Shift ability. This acts like a dimension door spell 5'/2lvs.(swift action) I also have the dimensional agility feat, which allows me to "take any actions you have remaining".
My question is, if I am facing a combatant, then use this ability to end up behind him, is he considered surprised for that round? He is technically not surprised as per the definition in the rule book, because that only happens at the start of combat. But I would argue that he is unprepared (at least for the first time it happens) and thus should lose his dex to ac bonus.
What do you guys think?
I am old school, so I use old school terms, I think the meaning was pretty obvious though..... but I will fix it.
I understand that there is no facing in Pathfinder, that is why I am asking the question, this seems to go outside intended rules. In order to accomplish the task at hand a feat and a spec ability were used, which to me seems to require some kind of benefit.
No because Dimension Door ends your turn. Effectively.
Is the opposing character "unaware"? Could I for example, use a garrote on him?
No because Dimension Door ends your turn. Effectively.
It does not end your turn if you take the dimensional agility feat. the feat is specifically designed to allow you to take actions after you use dimension door. (page 95 Ultimate Combat)
|
The benefit was that you likely didn't provoke an AoO and made it to the other side of the enemy without having to make an Acrobatics check. Just because you have an ability that lets you do something doesn't mean it should provide an inherent benefit when you decide to use it. The benefit is that you CAN use it.
To put it bluntly, there is nothing within the rules to say that you would get any kind of bonus or benefit from shifting "behind" the enemy. Now, if you shifted into a flanking position then you would get the flanking bonus on your next attack because you are now flanking and could then use sneak attack.
|
So, out of initiative, you teleport next to the guy, right?
Then, initiative would be rolled, and you would get a surprise round, and can take a standard or move action during the surprise round.
The unaware combatants are flat-footed, and lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
This would allow you to apply Sneak Attack damage against the Flat-Footed opponent.
Only if you take Dimensional Savant could to get sneak attack with that ability.
So, out of initiative, you teleport next to the guy, right?
Then, initiative would be rolled, and you would get a surprise round, and can take a standard or move action during the surprise round.
The unaware combatants are flat-footed, and lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
This would allow you to apply Sneak Attack damage against the Flat-Footed opponent.
Well...no...the theory was that I was already in combat facing the opponent. I agree that if you start out of initiative it would be surprise, but you can do that by hiding or any number of ways that do not require the use of an extra feat or limited special ability.
The point here was to find a way to do it once combat was already initiated.In oldschool D&D getting behind someone was enough to trigger a sneak attack, I was kind of drawing from that experience. It makes sense logically to me that if your opponent suddenly disappears from in front of you, then you would be caught off guard when he hits you from behind a second later. But I understand that it will likely have to be a GM call, since there are no current rules to govern it.
If he knows that he's in combat with you, you can't get him flat-footed using this trick per the rules.
If your GM wants to allow it under the Rule of Cool, then whatever, that's between you guys, but as far as rules go, it's a no.
Only if you take Dimensional Savant could to get sneak attack with that ability.
Dimensional savant allows for the sneak attack because you are "flanking with yourself" which is different than being surprised from behind. As I said this is a unique case.
OK fair enough.
|
Aye. The way the mechanics are handle things like teleportation by themselves are not enough to unbalance your foes and grant you the ability to use Sneak Attack.
You can of course use your Shift to appear in a position where you would gain a flanking bonus but you likely are already aware of that tactic.
Also it's fine to use your old terms, it was obvious what you meant for the most part. Just keep in mind that its a game mechanically and despite some emulations it makes it keeps things simple when it comes to facing and so forth to keep things moving along.
If your GM wanted to give you a chance where you totally catch something unexpected with that trick they could always allow you to deal your sneak attack damage.
Markus,
Just wanted to say I had no difficulty at all understanding your post despite the terminology you used.
It shows humility that you edited your post to appease a poster who's reply came off to me as bullying.
No disrespect meant to BBT if that wasn't his intent (or even if it was).
I My question is, if I am facing a combatant, then use this ability to end up behind him, is he considered surprised for that round?
There are two misconceptions in this sentence, or one leading into the other.
There is no facing in Pathfinder. Therefore there is no "behind an enemy" or "facing an enemy" or "to the side/in front of the enemy".There's adjacent to an enemy or not. Teleporting "behind" an enemy doesn't change this. If there is another ally adjacent to the enemy, you can teleport into a flanking position and sneak attack from there.
I My question is, if I am facing a combatant, then use this ability to end up behind him, is he considered surprised for that round?There are two misconceptions in this sentence, or one leading into the other.
There is no facing in Pathfinder. Therefore there is no "behind an enemy" or "facing an enemy" or "to the side/in front of the enemy".There's adjacent to an enemy or not. Teleporting "behind" an enemy doesn't change this. If there is another ally adjacent to the enemy, you can teleport into a flanking position and sneak attack from there.
I understood that going into my question. I know there is no rule for it in pathfinder. However, my group tends to do more roleplaying and verbal description over using maps and minis. We also tend to use basic logic to the situation when rules don't cover the event. The reason I asked the question here was to see if it had already been addressed, and to get the view of other players.
Honestly though you have all convinced me to just keep it simple, I will find a better way to use shift :)
Uh ... the rules DO cover the event.