There will be subtle differences from Eve and you may not therefore need such a tool. In PfO you don't put skills in a queue to train. You accumulate xp (think skill points) that aren't tied to anything. Then when you have enough for the skill you want you spend the xp. This then gives you the skill, you then in game have to earn a merit badge which in turn grants the ability .
Goblin Squad Member
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Of course, there is the need to get to a training hall to spend that XP on a skill, and if there's no open spot you'll get put on a waiting list or some such, right? Not sure what the plan is for that. I feel like you don't have to physically be at the training building to take up the spot there and be training it, but I'm not positive. Seems like it'd be a pain if there were only so many spots for training, and you have to be there when the spot opens up to claim it.
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There are also specific tasks that one must meet to be able to spend the XPs on the skill (iirc). For example, you achieve "Swordsman 1". In order to achieve "Swordsman 2" (before spending and skill points) you would have to swing your sword 100 times, kills 10 monsters, and complete one contract for "guard" (or some combination of things yet to be determined). Then you could find a trainer and spend your skill points of "Swordsman 2".
Of course, there have been several changes, and changes still to occur.
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There are also specific tasks that one must meet to be able to spend the XPs on the skill (iirc). For example, you achieve "Swordsman 1". In order to achieve "Swordsman 2" (before spending and skill points) you would have to swing your sword 100 times, kills 10 monsters, and complete one contract for "guard" (or some combination of things yet to be determined). Then you could find a trainer and spend your skill points of "Swordsman 2".
Of course, there have been several changes, and changes still to occur.
This is still accurate. The system as it currently stands is:
1. Accumulate XP over time (as long as you're subscribed, but whether or not you're logged in).
2. While you're accumulating XP, go out and get achievements/merit badges.
3. Browse a training hall to which you have access. See if they have anything you want, can afford with XP, and meet the prerequisites for (achievements or sufficiently high ability scores). The building owner might also set a coin fee for the trait, which you have to pay.
4. If you see something you want, select it and press Train. The coin and XP is deducted from you, and the trait is added to your character. Additionally, the associated ability score goes up by a fraction of a point (meaning after buying several traits from the same score, you now have a higher ability score to qualify for better training).
We don't yet know if we'll have a waiting list feature if you're waiting for a particular trait to come back into stock. Probably the simplest solution is that if you see it as available, you can buy it right now; if not, check back later or try a different training hall. If that's resulting in a lot of people getting bottlenecked on training, we'll look at additional system elements to correct.
So Skills are not particularly differentiated from Feats?
I thought Skills were a numeric rating ranging from 1 to 300?
I'd also seen usages of 'Skill Bonus' in the Blog, implying a bonus to a roll?
Likewise, Blog references such as which implied an inherent distinction between skills and feats.
Skills and Feats are inherently different mechanics in the tabletop game from which the term Feat was pulled (I presume).
If it is not really a separate mechanic, but just an equal trade-off vs. other non-'Skill' Feats, I don't think it's helpful to use the term 'Skill' at all... That's simply confusing coming from the tabletop perspective (which GW otherwise seems to want to promote/enable), and I don't see what the benefit is referring to Skills totally uniquely from other Feats/Abilities without a shared over-arching name for the modular training 'slot'. They instead could be labelled 'Crafting/Harvesting/Knowledge/etc' Feats and Roles (both for generic '+1 Crafting Role Rank' Feats and ones granting unique abilities relevant to that Skill/Role, i.e. enabling unique usage of it beyond just vanilla Rank level), if that's the case.
We don't yet know if we'll have a waiting list feature if you're waiting for a particular trait to come back into stock. Probably the simplest solution is that if you see it as available, you can buy it right now; if not, check back later or try a different training hall. If that's resulting in a lot of people getting bottlenecked on training, we'll look at additional system elements to correct.
This seems amenable to ad-hoc solutions, i.e. the manager of the Training facility can make a list of people who weren't able to fulfill their training while logged in. They could retain the list as a 'go the head of the line' type of thing, perhaps restricting that to only Settlement members and only allowing one 'skipper' per 1/2/etc normal line waiters... Eventually I can see formalizing that on-server, so it will be transparent to people waiting in line, but I think leaving it up to a more personalized (or Settlement specific) policy is good for the richness of the game.
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Officially, a "Feat" is any character improvement you can purchase with XP. Base Attack Bonus upgrades are Feats. Save improvements are Feats. Proficiencies are Feats. Skill ranks are Feats. Combat Feats are Feats... yeah, that last part makes it a little confusing, especially since sometimes when we say "Feats" we really mean "Combat Feats" (i.e., the things you actually have to slot to get them to do anything). We're looking into it.
Skill Ranks run 1-20, and you buy them in order. Your Skill Total (sometimes referred to as Skill Bonus) for a skill is equal to Ranks x 10 + Modifiers (e.g., from Race) and caps at 300. Admittedly, Skill Total is probably a better term than Skill Bonus, and that one's on me; I started using it back when we expected to actually add your Skill Total as a bonus to rolls more often than we wound up doing (we mostly just use it as a comparison or a factor in formulas). I'll try to be more consistent in using Skill Bonus only to mean "something that adds to your Skill Total but doesn't change your Ranks."
So, there is a meaningful difference between Skill and Combat Feat, even though a Skill Rank is purchased as a "Feat" in the more generic sense. Races get Skill Bonuses (i.e., additions to your Skill Total), not actual Skill Ranks. For a lot of uses, we only care about your Skill Total, but you may require actual Skill Ranks to meet a prereq (e.g., for recipes or certain Combat Feats). This is because your Skill Total can fluctuate based on temporary buffs, but your Ranks should only ever go up.
Thanks for the feedback, that clears up some confusion.
Yeah, it makes sense to distinguish as a group some 'Skill' kinds of Feats from other specific kinds of Feats, e.g. Combat Feats, but IMHO it should always be clear that they pertain to the same generic mechanic (Feats), and they shouldn't be referred to as Skills in isolation...
If a specific name for the metagroup is considered necessary (as opposed to just referring to the specific 'Skill' Roles like Knowledge, Disguise, etc), something like 'Skill Roles'/'Skill Feats' at least establishes that they are partaking of the same basic Role/Feat mechanic as other Roles/Feats. With that approach, the 'Skill Feat/Role' meta-group might just be established once, explaining common mechanics, but in most cases the specific Feats/Roles (Harvesting, Disguise, etc) would be sufficient to refer to directly (or as natural sub-groupings, i.e. Harvesting skills as a group even though they are separate trees) without mention of the "Skill" term (since that doesn't establish any new information, if we already know Disguise is a Skill Feat, referring to a Disguise Feat is clear and consise). In other words, like how Pathfinder Tabletop doesn't explicitly call out as a Combat Feat everytime it refers to a specific Feat or group of Feats that are Combat Feats, it just refers to the specific Feat or group of Feats (which you can verify as Combat Feats if you bother to look them up). Same goes for any other types of Feats/Roles you might introduce that aren't Combat or Skills.
About "Skill Total" in place of "Skill Bonus", I think "Skill Bonus" is good for the character's own Skill Bonus from Ranks in the 1-20 Skill Role chain (as a generic term, "Disguise Bonus", etc, would be the actual usage in most cases). Modifiers to that could be called 'Skill Modifiers' (Disguise Modifiers, etc) and the sum of everything you have is the Skill Total (Disguise Total, etc). That should pretty much follow the attack/resistance system, although I guess you've actually used 'Damage Rating' as a modifier to 'Attack Bonus'... Even apart from the Skill issue, I'd say it's probably clearest to use the same basic term with appropriate sub-terminology reflecting the base/modifier/etc status, i.e. Attack Bonus/Attack Modifier/Attack Total instead of switching around Attack and Damage even though they are arithmetically equivalent. (Damage Multiplier makes sense to retain discrete terminology for, and it applies equally to both the character's own Bonus and Weapon Specific Modifier/Rating)
...Even if 'rolls' (variation) aren't used as much for "Skills" as in combat actions, I don't think it's too confusing to use the same term "Bonus/Modifier[Rating]" for analagous mechanics, and of course it leaves the door open for "rolls" to possibly play a factor in at least some "Skill" Feat Chains/Roles usage scenarios. In particular, it seems to facilitate some skill/combat synergies, like Feint, if they are built to potentially be compatable even if that isn't usually actualized. It also enables intuitive and clear-cut application of things like Tiers to Skill Feats (best of 2/3 rolls) if and when some skills do depend on rolls (either actively or passively).
The thing about skills ("Skill Total") capping at 300 but Skill Ranks running 1-20 (and Skill Total = Ranks * 10 + Modifiers) is useful for establishing the dynamics here, I assume "Modifiers" might result from things like PVP Flag, active Spells, formation combat/group or area-specific modifiers, items ('mundane' or magical), and Skill-modifying Abilities, both yours, allies', and enemies (for debuffs) ...Some of those being always-on, some passive but conditional bonuses (either environmental or slotting a passive ability), some as active refresh abilities.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is still accurate. The system as it currently stands is:
1. Accumulate XP over time (as long as you're subscribed, but whether or not you're logged in).
2. While you're accumulating XP, go out and get achievements/merit badges.
3. Browse a training hall to which you have access. See if they have anything you want, can afford with XP, and meet the prerequisites for (achievements or sufficiently high ability scores). The building owner might also set a coin fee for the trait, which you have to pay.
4. If you see something you want, select it and press Train. The coin and XP is deducted from you, and the trait is added to your character. Additionally, the associated ability score goes up by a fraction of a point (meaning after buying several traits from the same score, you now have a higher ability score to qualify for better training).
That...that just sounds terrible to me. Seriously.
1. Automatically accumulating XP over time is just incredibly unengaging. Not terrible on it's own, but not great.
However, experience with other games suggests this will also be circumvented in the game store, allowing wealthy players to purchase instant XP. That part is terrible.
2. Getting merit badges. I can't for the life of me understand why you would take the absolute worst part of questing in MMOs (do X task Y times) and make it a core game mechanic. Other then to sucker in those easily addicted to small meaningless rewards.
Also, if you ever sell these in the store, or you'll create a true pay-to-win game and complete your path to lawful evil.
3. Limiting character customization and development to supply and demand...at this point it's not just terrible but almost insulting.
Want to train in a certain archery skill? Too bad, that skill trait isn't popular, no one sells that training. Had all your gold robbed by a bandit? Well he owns the local training hall and has an oligopoly with the surrounding hexes, guess you can't learn how to swim better today. Need a higher climb skill to get into that limited duration event dungeon? It's sold out, better luck next year.
Also, in all the material released, I apparently missed the part where Golarion's education system is based on magically injecting skill downloads into people's brains.
For a Pathfinder MMO, there isn't a lot of Pathfinder in it, is there? It's more like some other MMO is wearing the dead skin of Pathfinder as a mask.
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2. Getting merit badges. I can't for the life of me understand why you would take the absolute worst part of questing in MMOs (do X task Y times) and make it a core game mechanic. Other then to sucker in those easily addicted to small meaningless rewards.
If a player decides to embark into a new field, he can buy skill training with points previously accumulated. But he can't freely use the feats until he has put time in game towards earning the badge. And there has never been anything posted by devs suggesting the 'merit badges' would be bought.
I apparently missed the part where Golarion's education system is based on magically injecting skill downloads into people's brains.
When I played rpgs, I thought that the magical skill injection happened every time I gained a level. Sha-zaam! I now had more hit points, a +1 to my attack, better saves, etc, etc.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The 'xp over time' mechanic is so people with more free time cannot 'grind' a huge in game advantage over people who go offline for more than 15 minutes a day. A balance that is important because Players control the world in PFO.
Player made settlements will control the higher levels of skills, because the whole game is about players controlling the world. So ,want to train 'archery' or w/e ? Found a city and put that craft hall up !
GW have stated they will only put frivilous items in the pay store. As long as you are a subscriber, you will be just as powerful as someone with a lot of money. Just not as pretty.
Not a lot of PFRPG translates to MMO world. PFRPG is made for a party of a few people, PFO is a player controlled world with thousands of players. Feel free to tell GW how they can make that happen. Do read the blogs first , they actually have thought about it.
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I'm sure someone will be along in a bit who will be able to supply the appropriate links for you, but may I suggest you read the development blog? You may find a lot of your fears allayed, especially those with regard to micro transactions and pay to win.
Vancent's been around a while; he knows where to find the blogs.
If someone is presenting misinformation, I'll take the time to point out the erros, but Vancent's just expressing his opinions. Nothing to "correct".
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Goblin Squad Member
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1. Automatically accumulating XP over time is just incredibly unengaging. Not terrible on it's own, but not great.
However, experience with other games suggests this will also be circumvented in the game store, allowing wealthy players to purchase instant XP. That part is terrible.
2. Getting merit badges. I can't for the life of me understand why you would take the absolute worst part of questing in MMOs (do X task Y times) and make it a core game mechanic. Other then to sucker in those easily addicted to small meaningless rewards.
Also, if you ever sell these in the store, or you'll create a true pay-to-win game and complete your path to lawful evil.
I'm absolutely positive they will NEVER offer "bulk XP" in the game store, nor even accelerated xp accumulation. What you CAN buy is something that switches your "xp meter" from off to on, basically the equivalent of having a subscription.
As for the merit badges, they are "proof" that you're actually playing the game and "earning" that XP that's accumulating (and moreover that you're doing something relevant to the skill you're trying to train).
It's the combination the XP and the merit badges together that allow you to train new skills, looking at them individually is like asking how the sausage is made.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do read the dev blogs, I have since they first started posting them.
I'm well aware of what GW currently promises for the store. I sincerely hope that they stay true to that. However, I am speaking from my experiences with other MMOs.
It's easy to make promises now, but once the game comes out profitability and sustainability and become the main issues, especially if subscription counts are low.
Even if they are high at first, eventually the numbers will start to drop and alternate sources of revenue will be explored, either that or they just shut the servers down. That's the unfortunate fate of any MMO, either fade and die with honour or delve into unethical profit schemes to scrape out a living.
I can't really blame them if they introduce pay-to-win stuff far down the line. It does let the fans continue playing at least. I just hope they hold off on it as long as possible, the chances of that are not good however. That's just the state of the industry today.
The 'xp over time' mechanic is so people with more free time cannot 'grind' a huge in game advantage over people who go offline for more than 15 minutes a day. A balance that is important because Players control the world in PFO.
I'm well aware of what the mechanic is for, but that doesn't make it any more engaging. It's still boring. Furthermore, I feel that players willing to put a lot of time into a game should be rewarded for that effort.
While I do not have an alternative solution at this time, for a player controlled world, I am still unhappy with this method.Player made settlements will control the higher levels of skills, because the whole game is about players controlling the world. So ,want to train 'archery' or w/e ? Found a city and put that craft hall up !
I was talking about unpopular skills, not high level ones. Skills business owners won't bother offering in favor of more profitable ones. Just because no one else wants to learn how to I shouldn't have to start up a business empire just to teach myself how to fire a bow better.
Not a lot of PFRPG translates to MMO world. PFRPG is made for a party of a few people, PFO is a player controlled world with thousands of players. Feel free to tell GW how they can make that happen.
I do tell them, bit by bit, with every post in this forum. However, just because I can see that something is wrong doesn't mean I have the solution to fix it. Perhaps you have some ideas?
It's the combination the XP and the merit badges together that allow you to train new skills, looking at them individually is like asking how the sausage is made.
Heh, interesting metaphor. To expand on it however: if the sausage tastes funny then I'm going to question what they put into it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Skill Ranks run 1-20, and you buy them in order. Your Skill Total (sometimes referred to as Skill Bonus) for a skill is equal to Ranks x 10 + Modifiers (e.g., from Race) and caps at 300.
Does this now change the combat stats?
For example, in the Murder by Numbers blog:
"Attack Bonus: Player characters can purchase Base Attack that applies to all weapons, and individual bonuses for specific weapon groups (Light Melee, Ranged, etc.). A player character can have up to +150 attack before buffs (+50 from Base Attack and +100 from the specific group).
Saves/Defense: Player characters can purchase Fortitude, Reflex, and Will up to +150 before buffs (and gain Base Defense from armor, see below). Saves are targeted by attacks, rather than rolled, and most physical attacks target Reflex (since armor provides resistance, there's no need for a different score to represent touch armor class as in tabletop)."
Does this mean there is an increase to the 150 attack and 150 save/defense due to skills? Ie. an increase to 200 in both cases?
About the terminology, I had a few more thoughts.
So far the structure seems pretty solid, even if the terms might change:
Ranks -> x10 + Modifiers -> Total/Bonus/etc
I think it's highly desirable to not introduce a discrete term for the 'x10' part,
given it doesn't have any other discrete user interaction, but is just a multiplication of Ranks.
For some reason I just don't like the term 'Total' which is why I thought 'Bonus' is even acceptable (for things which may not use "rolls" to apply a 'Bonus' to), but I thought of some other ones for the 'final' stat:
Attack/Disguise/Mining/etc + Rating (i.e. Final Rating/ Total Rating)
" " + Score
" " + Power (OK, "Power" sucks, but I'm sure there's a couple other similar types of terms that could be used here)
I was confused about the subject mostly because some areas of the Blog did NOT associate Skills clearly with the Feat/Merit Badge system, even when discussed in proximity (suggesting they were unrelated mechanics), but as long as that's clear my confusion is much less.
It could very well be easy enough to use the term "Attack (etc) Bonus" as the "final total" term for abilities which DO use rolls, and use a slightly different term "Disguise (etc) Rating/Score/etc" for abilities that DON'T use rolls, even though apart from the roll (actual resolution of the ability) they are mechanically identical. So both genres of abilities could be introduced in common, and the different terms introduced parallel to explaining the difference between them? The question might be if some Modifiers would potentially affect both roll-based abilities (Bonus) and non-roll-based abilities (Rating/Score/etc): if the same term is used no extra explanation is needed, if different terms are needed then there is just a minor amount of explanation to say that Modifiers can apply to both, but I think that is acceptable.
I'm patiently waiting for any scraps about what the merit badge requirements will be; I'm hoping that there aren't any of the form "Do something easy a lot of times."
I honestly expect SOME Merit Badges to be easily accomplishable things. And some of them may be events which are rarer, but will happen from using the appropriate abilities often enough (e.g. based on Crit occurance, etc). And some of them really will be unique and notable. But the more easily accomplishable, mundane ones won't be some boring "farming" task, but rather things that will just happen thru playing your character using the appropriate niches of abilities.
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I apparently missed the part where Golarion's education system is based on magically injecting skill downloads into people's brains.When I played rpgs, I thought that the magical skill injection happened every time I gained a level. Sha-zaam! I now had more hit points, a +1 to my attack, better saves, etc, etc.
Many RPGs don't use that system. In Call of Cthulhu, each of the skills you used during an adventure had a chance of improving when that adventure ended. In Cyberpunk 2020, GURPS, and the White Wolf games, you spent experience points directly to improve skills and abilities, instead of packaging various improvements as a class level. Rolemaster used levels, but it had an optional rule system for improving some things at the mid-point of a level, and improving the rest when you reached the next level.
The point is, instant magical character improvement on gaining a level is mainly a factor of D&D and its descendents, not RPGs in general.
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I apparently missed the part where Golarion's education system is based on magically injecting skill downloads into people's brains.When I played rpgs, I thought that the magical skill injection happened every time I gained a level. Sha-zaam! I now had more hit points, a +1 to my attack, better saves, etc, etc.
Many RPGs don't use that system. In Call of Cthulhu, each of the skills you used during an adventure had a chance of improving when that adventure ended. In Cyberpunk 2020, GURPS, and the White Wolf games, you spent experience points directly to improve skills and abilities, instead of packaging various improvements as a class level. Rolemaster used levels, but it had an optional rule system for improving some things at the mid-point of a level, and improving the rest when you reached the next level.
The point is, instant magical character improvement on gaining a level is mainly a factor of D&D and its descendents, not RPGs in general.
All valid statements... but none of those other games take place in Golarion. ;)
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That...that just sounds terrible to me. Seriously.
1. Automatically accumulating XP over time is just incredibly unengaging. Not terrible on it's own, but not great.
However, experience with other games suggests this will also be circumvented in the game store, allowing wealthy players to purchase instant XP. That part is terrible.
2. Getting merit badges. I can't for the life of me understand why you would take the absolute worst part of questing in MMOs (do X task Y times) and make it a core game mechanic. Other then to sucker in those easily addicted to small meaningless rewards.
Also, if you ever sell these in the store, or you'll create a true pay-to-win game and complete your path to lawful evil.
3. Limiting character customization and development to supply and demand...at this point it's not just terrible but almost insulting.
Want to train in a certain archery skill? Too bad, that skill trait isn't popular, no one sells that training. Had all your gold robbed by a bandit? Well he owns the local training hall and has an oligopoly with the surrounding hexes, guess you can't learn how to swim better today. Need a higher...
1. This game is being patterned after EVE, and Ryan Dancey used to work for CCP. EVE experimented with a cash store. What they actually sold was fancy clothes for avatars. When word leaked out that they were considering selling items that smacked of Pay To Win, the players went berserk, and CCP abandoned the idea. I would hope that experience is still fresh in Ryan's mind.
2. I agree that Do X Tasks Y Times would make boring merit badges. Hopefully, GW can come up with something better than that.
3. Yup, those things could happen. Join a settlement and ask them to offer what you want. We've got a long time before the game goes live to figure out ways around problems like those.
4. Paizo publishes Pathfinder under the Open Gaming License. That license doesn't cover computer games. It was never possible for PFO to be a direct translation of the pen and paper Pathfinder rules. Under the skin, it has to be a different game engine.
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I do read the dev blogs, I have since they first started posting them.
I'm well aware of what GW currently promises for the store. I sincerely hope that they stay true to that. However, I am speaking from my experiences with other MMOs.
It's easy to make promises now, but once the game comes out profitability and sustainability and become the main issues, especially if subscription counts are low.
Even if they are high at first, eventually the numbers will start to drop and alternate sources of revenue will be explored, either that or they just shut the servers down. That's the unfortunate fate of any MMO, either fade and die with honour or delve into unethical profit schemes to scrape out a living.
I can't really blame them if they introduce pay-to-win stuff far down the line. It does let the fans continue playing at least. I just hope they hold off on it as long as possible, the chances of that are not good however. That's just the state of the industry today.
This is where the EVE connection comes in again. EVE didn't follow the "Big Open, Slow Decline" subscriber pattern you described. It started small. Really, really small. Instead of losing subscribers every year after it opened, it gained subscribers every year. Even the cash store fiasco didn't stop that pattern.
"Small Open, Steady Growth" is the model GW has consistently said they want to follow. Under that model, they won't face the same pressure that leads so many games to open with a subscription fee, then introduce a Free To Play with a cash store, then turn that cash store into Pay To Win.
All that being said, I'll be disappointed too if GW eventually offers XP Boosts, Super-Weapons and Ultra-Armor in the cash store.
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I do read the dev blogs, I have since they first started posting them.
I'm well aware of what GW currently promises for the store. I sincerely hope that they stay true to that. However, I am speaking from my experiences with other MMOs.
It's easy to make promises now, but once the game comes out profitability and sustainability and become the main issues, especially if subscription counts are low.
Even if they are high at first, eventually the numbers will start to drop and alternate sources of revenue will be explored, either that or they just shut the servers down. That's the unfortunate fate of any MMO, either fade and die with honour or delve into unethical profit schemes to scrape out a living.
I can't really blame them if they introduce pay-to-win stuff far down the line. It does let the fans continue playing at least. I just hope they hold off on it as long as possible, the chances of that are not good however. That's just the state of the industry today.
This is a kickstarter funded game, they are not spending 300 million like Star Wars the Old Republic that they have to make up for. This is an Eve based model system. They expect and only want small numbers to start with. Read over some Dev Blogs and the Kickstarter page again.
The 'xp over time' mechanic is so people with more free time cannot 'grind' a huge in game advantage over people who go offline for more than 15 minutes a day. A balance that is important because Players control the world in PFO.I'm well aware of what the mechanic is for, but that doesn't make it any more engaging. It's still boring. Furthermore, I feel that players willing to put a lot of time into a game should be rewarded for that effort.
While I do not have an alternative solution at this time, for a player controlled world, I am still unhappy with this method.
This is not a theme park game, it is a sandbox. The time people will put into the game will show in their gold number. The whole concept of a skill based game is that your character is not limited to one class, you have no need for a large number of characters. If you want to play something just train for it.
Player made settlements will control the higher levels of skills, because the whole game is about players controlling the world. So ,want to train 'archery' or w/e ? Found a city and put that craft hall up !I was talking about unpopular skills, not high level ones. Skills business owners won't bother offering in favor of more profitable ones. Just because no one else wants to learn how to I shouldn't have to start up a...
You will have access to most skills based on your alignment. If you want the best skills available, join a PVP settlement.
I do tell them, bit by bit, with every post in this forum. However, just because I can see that something is wrong doesn't mean I have the solution to fix it. Perhaps you have some ideas?
Not a lot of PFRPG translates to MMO world. PFRPG is made for a party of a few people, PFO is a player controlled world with thousands of players. Feel free to tell GW how they can make that happen.
PnP games made into an MMO fail... D&D, Neverwinter, etc... They are themepark games, this is a sandbox.
Heh, interesting metaphor. To expand on it however: if the sausage tastes funny then I'm going to question what they put into it.
It's the combination the XP and the merit badges together that allow you to train new skills, looking at them individually is like asking how the sausage is made.
How about this metaphor... The one everyone hates to see... If you read the kickstarter then why support it? Everything was pretty well laid out for us on what they had planned. Open World Sand Box PVP game based on the Eve system. No character grinding, all skill based, etc etc.
Its not that there is a problem questioning what GW has planned... its a question on what you read about the game. Have to say it again, this game wont be for everyone. I dont know why people love those themeparks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's the combination the XP and the merit badges together that allow you to train new skills, looking at them individually is like asking how the sausage is made.Heh, interesting metaphor. To expand on it however: if the sausage tastes funny then I'm going to question what they put into it.How about this metaphor... The one everyone hates to see... If you read the kickstarter then why support it? Everything was pretty well laid out for us on what they had planned. Open World Sand Box PVP game based on the Eve system. No character grinding, all skill based, etc etc.
Its not that there is a problem questioning what GW has planned... its a question on what you read about the game. Have to say it again, this game wont be for everyone. I dont know why people love those themeparks.
The kickstarter didn't say anything about merit badges and xp gained into a generic bucket, or limited-access training, it just mentioned "skill training like EVE Online".
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's the combination the XP and the merit badges together that allow you to train new skills, looking at them individually is like asking how the sausage is made.Heh, interesting metaphor. To expand on it however: if the sausage tastes funny then I'm going to question what they put into it.How about this metaphor... The one everyone hates to see... If you read the kickstarter then why support it? Everything was pretty well laid out for us on what they had planned. Open World Sand Box PVP game based on the Eve system. No character grinding, all skill based, etc etc.
Its not that there is a problem questioning what GW has planned... its a question on what you read about the game. Have to say it again, this game wont be for everyone. I dont know why people love those themeparks.
The kickstarter didn't say anything about merit badges and xp gained into a generic bucket, or limited-access training, it just mentioned "skill training like EVE Online".
The only difference between PFO skill training and Eve Skill training is... In Eve you have to que a skill to train, in PFO you just get skill points to spend. The end result is the same.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The two systems are "Wait a while, then spend the points you've earned," vs. "Choose what you want next, then wait to earn enough points for it."
To me, the biggest difference is that in PFO, you won't fall behind if you don't keep a close eye on the clock.
In EVE, if you finish training a skill today and you don't pick your next skill to train until tomorrow, you miss out on 24 hours worth of XP (even though you're paying for your account). In PFO, you'll only miss out on XP when you're not paying for your account.