Specialty Priests


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Dark Archive

Has anyone done anything along the lines of "Specialty Priests" like what was available in 2e?

If yes, where might I be able to see it?


I'll admit I never played a Cleric until Pathfinder. However, wouldn't the concept of a specialty priest be covered by domains, subdomains, archetypes, and new base classes (and their associated powers and archetypes) such as the Inquisitor and the Oracle? Not to mention the more "priest-like" archetypes for the Paladin, Bard, Witch, etc.

So, if all that doesn't cover what you're looking for... what else do you want?

Dark Archive

Okay. So the concept of a Specialty Priest is basically like a Priest who *ONLY* has domain spells (but has a bigger list of them) and has like, an archetype that relates to the go, if applicable.

For instance, a Specialty Priest of the God of thieves would have all spells in that god's domains (and little to no access to non-domain spells), and outside of spells, would function much like a Rogue type. So likely rogue proficiencies, light armor, and sneak attack (or other rogue abilities) instead of most of the other cleric type abilities.

A Specialty Priest of the god of Fire and Light Would have a bunch of fire and light spells, the ability to summon Fire Creatures, Maybe Red Dragons, Maybe the Ability to turn into a fire creature or red dragon, as well as a bunch of light related spells, maybe some healing, and maybe the ability to summon angels. Likely the Cleric weapon list would be switched out to something with more offense. I would expect to see some swords, scimitars, and axes in the list, for instance, instead of the usual cleric fare. Likely, They would lack Shield Proficiency Then perhaps there would be an archetype you could take to swap out your channel energy for something Fire themed, or something Light themed.

So you'd need a wide variety of Archetypes, whether for the Cleric or the other Classes, and full fledged spell-lists for each domain.

Current Published Archetypes and Domains don't really cover it very well.

In a few specific instances, I imagine what we have is sufficient, but in many (depending on the theme of the deity in question and the domains granted), not.


Somewhere in here is a tear down of Clerics in order to make them fit better to the particular god. I am still refitting Clerics to gods, such as a Rogue god's Clerics losing Armor proficiencies but gaining more skills and Rogue-y skills.

And of course, I can't find the damn file!

Dark Archive

Yeah, that's the jist of the idea.

Though instead of doing it on a per-god basis, I figured doing it on a per-domain basis, and then having Archetypes to swap out things other than the spell-list, would make it easier for people to make Specialty priests for whatever gods they have in their campaign, rather than have them be limited to each individual god.

Oh, and any individual deity's spells would of course be on the specialty cleric's spell list.


Found it! the title I have is: The Non-Generic Cleric for Pathfinder. Easily found with the search function.

The only real problem I see with what you're doing is the fact that each god has two Domains and that will cause conflicts. This is something I ran slap into when I started. I would love to see how much better you solve it than I did.

Dark Archive

Hmm. I was more hoping something had already been done.

I don't see myself writing up a full detailed replacement, but maybe some notes on how I would approach it and you can give me some feedback, and I may come back to it later.

Here's what I found:

This the Complete list of Sources of Inspiration

Grindor wrote:

RESOURCES

Cleric - PHB, p30 - This is, of course, the standard cleric, which we want to make sure this can still be made from our variant.

Cloistered Cleric - UA, p50 - This is a variant cleric which focuses more on knowledge and less on combat. This is where we got the idea to reduce the BAB and allow for extra domains. We're trying to let it be made using our variant too (or something close to it).

Thug - UA, p51 - We used this fighter variant to work out that Medium + Heavy + Shield Proficiencies is approximately equal to 2 extra skill points per level.

Spontaneous Domain Casting - PHB2, p37 - This alternate class feature allows - as the name suggests - spontaneous domain casting, instead of spontaneous cure/inflict spells.

Divine Feats - Complete Divine, p78; Complete Warrior, p106; Complete Champion, p56; PHB2, p88 - These feats allow you to spend a turn/rebuke attempt to perform some other function. The Divine Channelling feature of our cleric powers these feats (they work exactly the same as before) and Turn/Rebuke Undead is now a Divine Feat.

Improved Domain Powers - Dragon #342, p21 - This is an article with a turn/rebuke undead replacement for each domain from the PHB. They forgot to include Plant, which you can find here.

No Turning - Dragon #353, p88 - This is an article with 14 different substitutes for turn/rebuke undead, including one that allows you to gain an animal companion, and another that gives you some new class skills.

Rage Cleric - Dragon #333, p86 - Haven't really used this yet, but gives an idea of what's been done before and what features were exchanged.

The Non-Generic Cleric

GrindorsGoods wrote:


The Non-Generic Cleric

Base Cleric:
● Hit Die: d6
● Poor Base Attack Bonus
● Poor Fortitude save
● Poor Reflex save
● Good Will save
● 2 skill points per level
● Proficiency with all simple weapons and light armour
● 2 domains from the list of your deity's domains
● Choice of spontaneously casting cure or inflict spells (depending on your alignment) or spontaneously casting spells from one of your domains
● Choice of one of the following:
――○ Divine Channelling (usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier) and one divine feat of your choice (powered by Divine Channelling; one such feat is Turn/Rebuke Undead)
――○ One other alternative class feature which states that it replaces turn or rebuke undead
――○ One bonus feat of your choice

● You have four points to spend on the following additions and improvements to the base cleric. Unless otherwise stated, each option is worth one point and may only be selected once.

――○ Increase hit die by one step.
――― This option may be selected three times.
――○ Improve Base Attack Bonus by one step.
――― This option may be selected twice.
――○ Improve Fortitude save.
――○ Improve Reflex save.
――○ Gain 2 more skill points per level and two more class skills.
――― This option may be selected twice.
――○ Gain medium and heavy armour proficiency, and shield proficiency (except tower shields).
――○ Gain access to a domain on your deity's list of domains.
――― This option may be selected twice.
――○ Gain access to a domain not on your deity's list of domains.
――― This option costs two points.
――○ Gain the ability to spontaneously cast spells from one of your domains (in addition to your current ability to spontaneously cast cure, inflict, or domain spells).

New Feat

TURN OR REBUKE UNDEAD [DIVINE]
You channel positive or negative energy to turn or rebuke undead.
Prerequisites: Ability to use divine channelling

Benefit: You can spend a use of your divine channelling to turn or rebuke undead. A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) can turn or destroy undead creatures. An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships an evil deity) instead rebukes or commands such creatures. A neutral cleric of a neutral deity must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good cleric or an evil cleric. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed.

A cleric with 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion) gets a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.

See Turn or Rebuke Undead for specific details of how this power functions.

Hmm. This is apparently the 3.5 version.

Dark Archive

Here is the Pathfinder Version.

Mortuum wrote:

The Non-Generic Cleric

Change the Following from the Regular Cleric:

• d6 Hit die
• Poor Base Attack Bonus
• Poor Fortitude save
• You're only proficient with light maces, heavy maces, clubs, quarterstaves, slings and light armour.
• Choose only 1 domain from your deity’s list.
• You get a choice of spontaneously casting cure spells, inflict spells, or spells from one of your domains. You must be non-evil to spontaneously cast cure spells and non-good to spontaneously cast inflict spells. Once you make this choice, it cannot be changed.

Pick five options from the list below. Unless otherwise stated, each option may only be selected once.
Combat Cleric: D8 hit dice and 0.75 BAB. This powerful ability counts as two of your five choices.
Good Fortitude Save
Good Reflex Save
Skilful: Choose two new class skills. You gain 2 extra skill points each level. You may take this up to twice.
War Priest: Medium armour proficiency, shield proficiency (except tower shields), proficiency with all simple weapons and proficiency with your deity’s favoured weapon. If your deity’s favoured weapon is a simple weapon, gain weapon focus with it instead.
You must have Combat Cleric to take this.
Righteous Defender: Heavy armour proficiency, tower shield proficiency, weapon focus with your deity’s favoured weapon. If your deity’s favoured weapon is a simple weapon, you get +1 damage on attacks using it instead.
You must have War Priest, Good Fortitude Save and Combat Cleric to take this.
Domain: Access to any additional domain. This option may be selected up to three times.
Spontaneity: Add an additional spontaneous casting option to your repertoire. This option may be selected up to twice.
• [b]Dual Channelling:
You can channel both positive and negative energy.
You can’t take this unless you are morally neutral.
Sage: You get a bonus to AC equal to your wisdom modifier. You lose this bonus while you wear armour or use a shield.
At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, you gain a +1 enhancement bonus to your AC. When you prepare your spells, you may swap points of enhancement bonus for magic armour properties as long as you keep at least a +1 enhancement bonus. You cannot choose alignment based properties unless you have the matching alignment. You lose these bonuses while you wear armour or use a shield.
Undead Lord: Gain all the abilities of the Undead Lord archetype from Ultimate Magic.
You do not have to give up a domain; instead, this option counts against the maximum number of times you may select the Domain option. You must have the Undeath sub-domain to take this.
Theologian: Gain all the abilities of the Theologian archetype from Ultimate Magic and apply them to a domain from which you can cast spontaneously.
You do not have to give up another domain; instead, this option counts against the maximum number of times you may select the Domain option. You may take this multiple times, improving a different domain each time.
Cloistered Cleric: Choose three knowledge skills. These skills are class skills for you.
You get the features of the Cloistered Cleric archetype from Ultimate Magic, not including the two additional skill points per level. Your Breadth of Knowledge feature only applies to knowledge skills which class skills for you.
You do not have to give up any spell slots, proficiencies or domains. Instead, this option counts against the maximum number of times you may select the Domain option.

Dark Archive

Hmm.

So here's what I would do to start:

Make new Spell-Lists:
Basically go through a listing of all the spells, and start tagging them with concepts they relate to. Especially if those concepts are domains. The goal is to build "Domain Spell Lists" Orders of Magnitude bigger than the pre-existing ones.

The New spell Lists would be the biggest changes, and the most work.

The second Step would be to make a Cleric Archetype or Alternate Class that lets you customize the cleric in a way similar to what the Non-Generic-Cleric Does, and then just add on to the point-buy options selectable in a way much like the way the Summoner works.


Spells in spheres (as in 2E) instead of domains has been done (on this board). I was looking at that and the old 2E Complete Book of Priests myself. The specialty priest had access to the All sphere and major / minor access to a number of others (from 2 to 6 each). Theoretically this was balanced by granted powers (number and how powerful it was), hit dice type, weapon and armor access.

Major access was all levels, minor access was up to 4th level iirc.


Darkholme wrote:

Here is the Pathfinder Version.

Mortuum wrote:

The Non-Generic Cleric

Change the Following from the Regular Cleric:

• d6 Hit die
• Poor Base Attack Bonus
• Poor Fortitude save
• You're only proficient with light maces, heavy maces, clubs, quarterstaves, slings and light armour.
• Choose only 1 domain from your deity’s list.
• You get a choice of spontaneously casting cure spells, inflict spells, or spells from one of your domains. You must be non-evil to spontaneously cast cure spells and non-good to spontaneously cast inflict spells. Once you make this choice, it cannot be changed.

Pick five options from the list below. Unless otherwise stated, each option may only be selected once.
Combat Cleric: D8 hit dice and 0.75 BAB. This powerful ability counts as two of your five choices.
Good Fortitude Save
Good Reflex Save
Skilful: Choose two new class skills. You gain 2 extra skill points each level. You may take this up to twice.
War Priest: Medium armour proficiency, shield proficiency (except tower shields), proficiency with all simple weapons and proficiency with your deity’s favoured weapon. If your deity’s favoured weapon is a simple weapon, gain weapon focus with it instead.
You must have Combat Cleric to take this.
Righteous Defender: Heavy armour proficiency, tower shield proficiency, weapon focus with your deity’s favoured weapon. If your deity’s favoured weapon is a simple weapon, you get +1 damage on attacks using it instead.
You must have War Priest, Good Fortitude Save and Combat Cleric to take this.
Domain: Access to any additional domain. This option may be selected up to three times.
Spontaneity: Add an additional spontaneous casting option to your repertoire. This option may be selected up to twice.
• [b]Dual Channelling:
You can channel both positive and negative energy.
You can’t take this unless you are[/b]

...

hmm, I kinda feel weird about effectively trading (as compared to the standard pathfinder cleric) a domain for weapon focus and heavy armor proficiency (and a static plus one to damage for a simple weapon for some deities), but it feels a bit more combat-y than just handing them bonus combat feats.


AWESOME! and thx!

Dark Archive

R_Chance wrote:

Spells in spheres (as in 2E) instead of domains has been done (on this board). I was looking at that and the old 2E Complete Book of Priests myself. The specialty priest had access to the All sphere and major / minor access to a number of others (from 2 to 6 each). Theoretically this was balanced by granted powers (number and how powerful it was), hit dice type, weapon and armor access.

Major access was all levels, minor access was up to 4th level iirc.

Hmm. After a bunch of looking this weekend, I've found nothing. Could you give a link, perhaps?


Darkholme wrote:


R_Chance wrote:

Spells in spheres (as in 2E) instead of domains has been done (on this board). I was looking at that and the old 2E Complete Book of Priests myself. The specialty priest had access to the All sphere and major / minor access to a number of others (from 2 to 6 each). Theoretically this was balanced by granted powers (number and how powerful it was), hit dice type, weapon and armor access.

Major access was all levels, minor access was up to 4th level iirc.

Hmm. After a bunch of looking this weekend, I've found nothing. Could you give a link, perhaps?

It was in the homebrew a while back. It probably doesn't have the newer spells, but here you go:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kjzn?Priest-Spheres-for-Pathfinder#1

I made heavy use of the 2E spheres customizing the different priesthoods in my campaign. I was disappointed with the way it was dropped; it made perfect sense for the priesthoods of some very different gods. The Complete Priests Handbook's advice on balancing the different priesthoods was pretty good as well (assuming you didn't want "perfect" equality). I pulled it out of my old boxed 2E stuff a while back with the intention of reworking the various priesthoods / ideas for 3.x in mind. I noticed DDN (in the 8-2-13 playtest download) has Clerics customized based on the portfolio of the god they worship as well.

Dark Archive

Awesome! Thanks. I'll definitely have to go through and see what I can do with that. :)


Am currently playing a 14th level Priest (Tome of Secrets) with Travel, Fire and Liberation domains - its going very nicely! Made his race Samsaran as well!

Dark Archive

Rather than tag all spells, I think it might be easier to have a Specialty Priest get access to all the spells on the four or five domains their god grants access to, the domain powers of all four or five said domains, and then either the curing spells (if good) or inflict spells (if evil), or their choice of either (if neutral), and that's it for easy access spells. Any other cleric spell would be prepared at some penalty. It could be the specialist wizard penalty of having to pay two slots for the spell, or it could be just having to prepare non-domain spells at one level higher (I prefer the latter).

So an evil cleric of Urgathoa would have a spell list chosen from the spells in the Death, Evil, Magic, Strength and War domains, as well as all Inflict spells. Any other cleric spell she wants to prepare would be at +1 level, so that she'd have to use a 2nd level slot to prepare cure light wounds, or a 3rd level slot to prepare lesser restoration.

For the purposes of activating magic items, all cleric spells are still on her list, even the ones that she 'pays extra' for, as her priestly training allows her to call upon the divine power stored in items even if it's not magic she's particularly into (although she may find herself unwilling to activate magic items with [good] spells in them, finding them corruptive and weak, and not wanting to pollute her body or erode her faith with such things).

That's a *huge* downgrade from the standard cleric, who just automagically knows every spell ever printed, and every cleric spell ever-to-be-printed-in-the-future, but it's still playable, I think, and having the domain powers of all of your god's domains might help to ease the sting a tiny bit.

Perhaps another perk, to balance out the reduced access to non-Domain spells would be for her to get some bonus with her Domain spells, such as +1 caster level. Or perhaps that bonus only would apply to one of her Domains, choosable at 1st level, changeable every day, or changeable every time she goes up a level, creating some variability even within the ranks of specialty priests, as one might be a little bit better with Death spells, and another might be a little bit better with Strength spells.

There's plenty of variables to tweak around, but the basic idea seems simpler than trying to recreate 'spheres' and tag each cleric spell with one or more spheres, and update that list whenever a new product comes out.

A series of feats could open up certain branches of study for priests as well, adding a new series of related spells, such as a 'Fire Student' feat that grants another fire spell of each level to anyone with the Fire domain, or allow a Specialty Priest to more easily metamagic spells from her Domains or mimic the effects of Spell Focus (Domain Focus, +1 DC to spells on your Domain spells list, which a normal cleric would find rarely worth taking, but a Specialty Priest with 5 domains (and few other spells!) might consider a no-brainer!). Other feats could tamper with Domain powers, adding additional uses per day of use/day powers to the Domain Specialist, or increasing the range or damage or duration of those 1st level powers, etc.

Alternately, a Specialty Priest might automatically add spells (but not Domain powers?) from sub-Domains to her list as well, which could prove to balance oddly for Domains that have more sub-Domains than others... Or perhaps every X levels, they can choose one sub-Domain from their current set of Domains and add the spells from that sub-Domain to their spell list. That might even out better, and feel a little bit fairer to those who worship entities (demon lords, archdevils, empyreals) that only grant four Domains, or those who worship gods who have a smaller or larger selection of sub-Domains. In this case, a cleric who chose a sub-Domain at 1st level, in place of a regular Domain, could use her level-up choice to add the regular domain spells she missed out on at 1st level back to her list.

The option to add a sub-Domains to the list could start at 4th level, and then appear again at 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th (although a cleric worshipping an empyreal / archdevil / whatever that only has 4 domains and 4 sub-domains would miss out on that 20th level bonus).

.

Edit: a less off-the-cuff version of the above idea;

Focused Devotee (Cleric Archetype)
Some clerics devote themselves so fully to their gods teachings that they find themselves focusing entirely on the divine magic sacred to their patron, enhancing their deeper understanding of these spells and powers, but slowing their acquisition and mastery of spells not in that narrow focus.
Focused Devotion (Ex): At first level, you can prepare spells from any of the Domains your god embraces (any of which can be instead chosen as a sub-Domain that your deity grants access to), and either cure spells (if you are good), inflict spells (if you are evil) or your choice of cure or inflict spells (if you are neither good, nor evil). You cast any spells that are on your domain lists at +1 caster level. You can also prepare cantrips freely. All other spells on the cleric list are treated as one level higher for you, and must be prepared in higher level slots, but remain on your class list for the purposes of item activation. This modifies a clerics Spells feature and replaces Spontaneous Casting.
Domain Access (Ex): At first level, you gain the granted powers of all of your deity’s granted Domains (any of which can instead be taken as a sub-Domain).
At 4th level, you can add access to the spell list and granted powers of one sub-Domain your god allows, or a regular Domain your god grants, if you had already chosen a modified sub-Domain instead. You can add another eligible sub-Domain (or regular Domain) not already chosen again at 8th level, 12th level, 16th level and 20th level, up to the total number of Domains and sub-Domains that your deity grants access to, gaining both the granted powers and spells known of the chosen Domain or sub-Domain, and +1 caster level to the spells on those lists.
When using a domain power that inflicts one or more dice of hit point damage, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage inflicted. If that power creates a damaging effect that lingers over multiple rounds, the bonus damage only applies to the first round of damage.
When using a single-target domain power that has a 30 ft. range, your range increases to 60 ft.
When using a domain power that inflicts damage or affects a creature for a number of rounds, you can sacrifice a prepared spell of that domain to enhance its effect. The domain power inflicts additional dice of damage equal to the level of the spell sacrificed, and / or lasts additional rounds equal to the level of the spell sacrificed (without reducing remaining duration, if used on a power usable for a number of non-consecutive rounds per day). If the domain power creates a damaging effect that lingers over multiple rounds, the bonus damage dice only apply to the first round of damage.
This modifies the clerics Domains class feature.

Spell access rewarding sticking to your domain spells, but also much greater domain powers access and utility. The extra sub-domain every 4 levels thing could even be chopped out entirely, and added back in as a feat chain the Devotee could pick up, if the extras seem too much.


Minor access was up to 3rd level, IIRC.


Sissyl wrote:


Minor access was up to 3rd level, IIRC.

Based on a spell range of 7 levels for pre 3E Clerics. I think it was bumped to 4th in the homebrew reconstruction I read due to the 3.x nine level range of Cleric spells.


I'm considering working up a specialty priest class for my Draonlance conversion (DL had specialty priests back in 1st ed AD&D, along with spheres and schools of magic, before they became D&D "standard" in 2nd).

But if I do I would work it off the Oracle base class not Cleric, with each god granting a unique mystery, for 3 main reasons:

Revelations - a ready made mechanic to insert deity specific special abilities. Some of these can be dragged and dropped directly from the Oracle Mysteries (Mishakal = Life, Gilean = Lore, Reorx = Metal etc), others allow you to take abilities from other classes without multiclassing (Priests of Majere get monk abilities, Priests of Branchala get Bardic Music, Priests of Hidukel get Rogue Skills)

Spell Selection - Specialty priests (ESPECIALLY in 1st ed DL) had very limited spell selection, which fits better with the Oracle's limited range of Spells Known rather than the Cleric's "One List to Rule Them All". Plus, Mystery spells provide the perfect mechanic to say "all Priests of X can cast Y" - I know Domains do this to a certain extent, but since all gods grant more than 2 domains it is perfectly possible to play a Cleric of Mishakal *without* the Healing Domain, which makes no sense to me - plus you only get one domain spell at each level per day, which hardly makes it a signiture ability.

Batteries Not Included - Some of the "standard" Cleric class features do not gel with the old Specialty Priesthoods. Spontaneous Healing *really* doesn't fit: several of the gods of good only granted minor access to the healing sphere, and some of the neutral deities didn't even allow that. On the other side, only one evil deity granted major access to the reverse forms (inflict ...). Likewise Turning was pretty rare - only 3 deities in DL 1e granted the ability to Turn Undead, and only two granted the ability to Control - much better to make Channeling (and its variants) a Revelation specific to those deities than something all Clerics get, even if some of them never use it.

So there you go - my fix for specialty priests: Deity Specific Oracles...

PS - I would drop the curse mechanic, or at least make it an optional feature (both Elistan and Crysania in the books had traits that would fit the "curses" - Wasting Sickness and Blindness, respectively). The way I see it, specialty priests are restricted enough by having to adhere to their deity's code of conduct without throwing a curse on top.


The spheres I wrote up are indeed core only though I have an updated version with Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat (I think?) in it. If anyone wants an updated version I can update it with the rest of the spells in the pfsrd too.


Nostri wrote:


The spheres I wrote up are indeed core only though I have an updated version with Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat (I think?) in it. If anyone wants an updated version I can update it with the rest of the spells in the pfsrd too.

An updated version would be great. Your old file is saved in my "Work in Progress" folder for a reason.


R_Chance wrote:
Nostri wrote:


The spheres I wrote up are indeed core only though I have an updated version with Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat (I think?) in it. If anyone wants an updated version I can update it with the rest of the spells in the pfsrd too.
An updated version would be great. Your old file is saved in my "Work in Progress" folder for a reason.

Updating it as I type this. Might be a few days though, work's killing every free hour I've got and I still need to plan for the game I'm actually running using a different system. I'll start a new thread when it's done and post a link up here.


Nostri wrote:


R_Chance wrote:


Nostri wrote:


The spheres I wrote up are indeed core only though I have an updated version with Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat (I think?) in it. If anyone wants an updated version I can update it with the rest of the spells in the pfsrd too.

An updated version would be great. Your old file is saved in my "Work in Progress" folder for a reason.

Updating it as I type this. Might be a few days though, work's killing every free hour I've got and I still need to plan for the game I'm actually running using a different system. I'll start a new thread when it's done and post a link up here.

Thanks, sounds good! My job tends to be a free time killer too. I'm determined to make time for a game too.


Yeah, we could get a lot off stuff done if it weren't for having to waste time working...


Bwang wrote:


Yeah, we could get a lot off stuff done if it weren't for having to waste time working...

So, you've met my sophomores! :D In my job they pay me for 40 hours... and it takes 60+ hours to do it right.


Ironically work provides me the method to work on my computer.


I see what you're doing here. I liked the flavor of a lot of 2e specialty priests/kits, but I found the rules to not really work.

That's because the cleric class is too "broad". A priest of death (probably low combat ability, no healing spells, powerful death spells) would be so different from a standard priest, and would be so different from a priest of knowledge (poor Fort save, only light armor, BAB 1/2), priest of war (martial weaponry, but really this is just the War Domain), etc, that you're not really looking at members of the same PC class.

Unless domains are also adding or taking away base saving throw values, BAB, armor proficiencies, etc, I don't think this can work. I don't think archetypes can change base values either. You're better off with prestige classes.

On the second note, I agree that clerics get too broad a range of spells, but I don't think it's good for the game to have clerics that can't heal. (Priests of Death who can't heal are fine, provided no one shows up expecting a healer and realizes no one is, but that shouldn't be the same class as the cleric.)


Specialty priests were not Clerics. The Cleric "chassis" was used but they were Priests. The idea was simply for the various priesthoods to match their gods. It made, and makes, a great deal of sense. Anything could be altered, with the possible exceptions of experience progression (although one way that could be done was mentioned -- using the faster Druid progression) and spell acquisition (although, again it could be done). Hit dice were fair game as were weapons, armor, non-weapon proficiencies (skills) and (obviously) spheres (both in number and full / partial access). Some thought was given to "balance" and more to verisimilitude, but the primary focus was given to the role the individual priesthood played in the game world. Some priesthoods were largely NPC territory, others were better for players but all were tailored to the individual campaign deity. Which was the point.

In a PF / 3.x version I can see spell progression being up for alteration as well with more attention paid, perhaps, to balance. I would say the experience progression change is out since all classes use the same chart. Some priesthoods could be, primarily, NPC classes (like the Adept is now) while others would be adventuring / PC classes.

I've always wanted to do this and have been giving it some attention since Nostri first posted his spheres for Pathfinder. The granted powers and variations in other areas make it intriguing but complex. When I switched to 3E losing my customized priesthoods was like pulling teeth. It was the thing I most regret about moving to a system that otherwise excited me.

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