| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hello, if you don't already know I was one of the developers who helped bring the Machinesmith to life. I'm posting tonight after a brief discussion with Louis earlier today about how I'v recently (and welcomingly) been awash with ideas on expanding the abilities of the class. Not archetypes mind you, but more machinesmith tricks, more prototypes, and another way to look at prototypes to give a more "mechanical" feel to their overall use.
I've begun working on the actual write up that will incorporate those ideas. However the iron is hot, as they say, and here's a chance for you to take a swing with the hammer. Part of the reasoning for this was that from the classes original inception this board provided good and necessary feedback to make it into the shape it's in today. As a base it can expand infinitely (like all the good Pathfinder classes do) and opens up a great deal of creative play. So share your thoughts, ask your questions, gripe about how having a 25hp mind/poison/disease immune companion at lvl 1 is overpowered (or underpowered), what have you.
As to what I've been thinking? Here's a brief look into my thought process.
Prototypes
Primarily I wanted to add more in terms of buffs, constructs, and simply things for the machinesmith to do. The prototype list, while interesting, needs to have more unique stuff to have it stand out as something more than a lesser wizard. Item buffs are one idea but another potent idea I've been considering is expanding the number of little temporary constructs they can make to perform certain tasks.
Gadgets
This particular aspect of the machinesmith tricks section felt a little dry to me going back to it. So I decided it could use some fat. A lot of the gadgets I'm considering are going to be good for combat as well as utility. In addition to this I'm going to make some of them usable to be converted into mobius weapons by machinesmiths with that greatwork. So that sci-fi weapon you've undoubtedly been craving is not far from your grasp (even if you already could make lightsabers).
Techniques
Here I wanted to take a look at two abilities that the feedback showed most people weren't really happy with, namely repair and axiom. Repair is just fine and dandy for someone with a mechanus greatwork but rarely do you find use beyond that, and there's plenty of levels where it feels like the only thing you get. So the techniques section is an opportunity to expand on it, make it more usable, and indeed more desirable.
Beyond that I have in mind a few high level techniques that will help the machinesmith going into levels beyond 10.
Analyzer: From the get go I determined that this was going to be the greatwork of choice for "spellcasting" and utility machinesmiths. It provided a lot of free spells (mostly divination). In keeping with this theme one trick I'm planning is the ability for the analyzer to devour a scroll in order to make the scroll (caster level and all) usable through the analyzer. It "casts" the spell for you.
Beyond that the other ideas I have will help address complaints about its weakness in combat. But, in my mind at least, if you want a very strong combat option you have a big ole robot and a steampunk laser sword to choose from, but I digress.
Mechanus: I believe the main complaint about this guy is that he just lacks offense. So that's mostly what I'm focusing on here. If you have any other thoughts about how to make our robot-o-doom more doomy feel free to say.
Mobius Weapon: Probably the biggest receiver of augmentations. Since I consider this the combat option all the augmentations are undoubtedly going to be about making this more combat worthy. One thing I'm considering right away is addressing the complain about having more "to hit" nailed onto it in the same way other 3/4 casting classes have similar temporary boosts. The foundation is already here, it just needs to give it to you as an option.
Machinesmith Feats Extra Machinesmith trick is going to be made finally. In addition I'm tossing around ideas about using feats to change the nature of prototypes so that you can play in some interesting ways (think true technomancy or divinely powered constructs).
New Greatwork? I'm trawling for some inspired ideas here. In a sense each greatwork represents a role the machinesmith expects themselves to play, with gadgets filling in specific needs, and prototypes answering specific situations. Greatworks are meant to fill a theme but are overall meant to be very versatile within the context of that theme. Mechanus's operate under the context of "bodyguard" while analyzers work under the concept of "magic computer" and mobius weapons work under the concept of "high tech weapon."
Vehicles are the first thing to come to mind and I might end up throwing one before Louis and JP (lord of Legacies and most likely to bear the brunt of the classes wrath in his organized games). But vehicles are complex, and the rules for using them in pathfinder exist in but one book. So I may avoid them altogether in favor of letting the home brewers take their chances.
I'm currently sitting on the possibility of a mechanism that provides some form of combat support in a way akin to but much different from bardic music. Gonna put more thought into that.
In any case I'm here and keeping an eye on this thread to answer any questions, respond on any feedback, and generally try to answer every post I can.
Hmm... While this idea isn't exactly the same as creating new ideas, I had wondered about how I would go about enchanting my Mechanus as a construct, seeing as how normally constructs can't be modified after creation. I've played three games with the Machinesmith, but in one of the games my GM stated that since My Mechanus was already created at level one, that I couldn't modify it afterwards with enchantments to it, other than what was allowed by the Mechanus upgrades at every fifth Machinesmith level. So I'd like to see some rules on how and why and/or why not on how you would work on your mechanus to be on a par with something like an Adamantine Golem.
Specifically, perhaps you could add a mechanus trick that allows you to transform your construct into another construct that you have the plans for?
As for tricks, I really like the flavor of the crossbow turrets, so maybe add a further trick that that talent tree that allows your turrets to hover around and follow you like portable bodyguards?
Another thing that kinda got me down was that the prestige class for the Machinesmith turned you into a construct that people were unnerved by. I'd like to see a different prestige class option where the other end of the spectrum would occur, where instead of making yourself more of a construct, you'd make constructs seem more human, or perhaps a prestige class geared towards making the Machinesmith more of a charismatic personality.
As for more tricks, I'd like to see a trick that allows you to make one of your analyzer abilities that function once per day and have them become at-will abilities. Might be too unbalancing though.
I found the mobius weapon itself to be relatively well balanced in my playthrough of it, though as I see it, the weapon was the least powerful of the three greatworks that can be chosen by a Machinesmith in terms of the other two greatworks granted.
Hmm... While this idea isn't exactly the same as creating new ideas, I had wondered about how I would go about enchanting my Mechanus as a construct, seeing as how normally constructs can't be modified after creation. I've played three games with the Machinesmith, but in one of the games my GM stated that since My Mechanus was already created at level one, that I couldn't modify it afterwards with enchantments to it, other than what was allowed by the Mechanus upgrades at every fifth Machinesmith level. So I'd like to see some rules on how and why and/or why not on how you would work on your mechanus to be on a par with something like an Adamantine Golem.
I'm not sure I follow here. What exactly were you trying to do?
I'm not sure I follow here. What exactly were you trying to do?Hmm... While this idea isn't exactly the same as creating new ideas, I had wondered about how I would go about enchanting my Mechanus as a construct, seeing as how normally constructs can't be modified after creation. I've played three games with the Machinesmith, but in one of the games my GM stated that since My Mechanus was already created at level one, that I couldn't modify it afterwards with enchantments to it, other than what was allowed by the Mechanus upgrades at every fifth Machinesmith level. So I'd like to see some rules on how and why and/or why not on how you would work on your mechanus to be on a par with something like an Adamantine Golem.
In Pathfinder construct creation rules, I can't create a Cannon Golem on September 17th, then enchant it later on to have two extra cannons on it than it already had without breaking the construct down, then building it anew.
However, the Mechanus aspect of the Machinesmith allows for a variety of upgrades to be applied to the Mechanus at 5th level and every five levels after that. Since that's a specific ability of the Machinesmith ONLY, I wondered if it would be possible to grant the Mechanus extra attack options at those levels. Such as starting out with a tread type golem at level one, turn it large at level 5 and giving it two machinegune gun arms, making it have two siege cannons at level 10, and making it into the Guntank from one of the Gundam series at level 15.
Normally, a construct can't gain new abilities after it's creation, but the Mechanus is different in that it levels up with the Machinesmith.
I'm not sure I follow here. What exactly were you trying to do?Hmm... While this idea isn't exactly the same as creating new ideas, I had wondered about how I would go about enchanting my Mechanus as a construct, seeing as how normally constructs can't be modified after creation. I've played three games with the Machinesmith, but in one of the games my GM stated that since My Mechanus was already created at level one, that I couldn't modify it afterwards with enchantments to it, other than what was allowed by the Mechanus upgrades at every fifth Machinesmith level. So I'd like to see some rules on how and why and/or why not on how you would work on your mechanus to be on a par with something like an Adamantine Golem.
In Pathfinder construct creation rules, I can't create a Cannon Golem on September 17th, then enchant it later on to have two extra cannons on it than it already had without breaking the construct down, then building it anew.
However, the Mechanus aspect of the Machinesmith allows for a variety of upgrades to be applied to the Mechanus at 5th level and every five levels after that. Since that's a specific ability of the Machinesmith ONLY, I wondered if it would be possible to grant the Mechanus extra attack options at those levels. Such as starting out with a tread type golem at level one, turn it large at level 5 and giving it two machinegune gun arms, making it have two siege cannons at level 10, and making it into the Guntank from one of the Gundam series at level 15.
Normally, a construct can't gain new abilities after it's creation, but the Mechanus is different in that it levels up with the Machinesmith.
Ah, unfortunately I'm afraid your GM is right in this regard. The Mechanus was not written with Paizo's construct crafting rules in mind.
That being said upgrades don't really work that way. They're basically the result of constant tinkering with the greatwork. An extra rivet here, an improved motor there. At the upgrade specific levels it's just that tinkering finally coming into fruition.
Its limitations come as a direct result of the creature type that it is. It has lots of hp, is immune to a lot of things, and doesn't even have a personality for your GM to bother with (oh so mr. wolf doesn't want to go into the dark hole eh? Good thing Sir Worthington brought Killbot 4001 here with us). So the upgrades are fairly rigid and don't give much flexibility like changing out your animal companion or switching out evolutions would.
Instead customization is meant to come from choices in tricks and augmentations that let you expand on what the mechanus can do. Right now it's fairly limited, but that's what this new content is all about. You might not get your guntank but you might at least have a mechanus that will be different from the other guys.
I do like the concept of making an archetype that trades out making the mechanus from a tough brute to something more akin to an actual intelligent android. Though to me that feels like more of something an NPC would do.
Well it was just an idea, perhaps you might instead make some modifications that are unique to the base forms of the mechanus that was chosen at level one then? Perhaps something like the ability to function as a one-man submersible for the aquatic form when the construct is large enough to encompass the Machinesmith, but only for a few hours due to the amount of stored oxygen in the form?
Or something to make the Mechanus more unique as the Machinesmith's personal mech? Or maybe in place of the normal upgrades or as an archetype focusing on the Mechanus.
Or something to make the Mechanus more unique as the Machinesmith's personal mech? Or maybe in place of the normal upgrades or as an archetype focusing on the Mechanus.
This was actually something discussed early on in the machinesmith's development. It's certainly something that will happen. Whether or not that will happen in this wave of new content remains to be seen.
Part of the issue is balance here. For a good look at how it could work and why it would be wretchedly unbalanced look at the Synthesist.
As for making thigns unique to the base form that is a good idea and one that's very likely to make it into the new stuff.
Or something to make the Mechanus more unique as the Machinesmith's personal mech? Or maybe in place of the normal upgrades or as an archetype focusing on the Mechanus.This was actually something discussed early on in the machinesmith's development. It's certainly something that will happen. Whether or not that will happen in this wave of new content remains to be seen.
Part of the issue is balance here. For a good look at how it could work and why it would be wretchedly unbalanced look at the Synthesist.
Hmm.. Considering I don't really play a summoner, I hadn't considered that angle. Fusing with your eidolon to gain the benefits of both your mental stats with it's physical stats certainly sets up a powerful solo build. Though in the defense of constructs, a character can build a construct with the Construct Armor modification in order to wear a construct of your size as armor, specifically as if the construct were a suit of breastplate armor for max dex, speed reduction, arcane armor penalty, and the like, so any ideas for the mechanus would have to keep that in mind, especially since a Machinesmith gets a free construct if they chose the Mechanus as their greatwork. On the other hand, since I can't afford to enchant my mechanus to serve as armor at character creation anyway (it costs 35,000gp extra to have a construct able to be worn as armor, so no level one characters able to do this even with the feats!), I couldn't have my Mechanus become a suit of construct armor anyway.
Although, that brings to mind a different question, that if my first Mechanus was destroyed due to battle, and I wanted to rebuild it again, would I be able to rebuild my Mechanus from the ground up as my Mechanus with the construct armor ability, since I'd be building a new Mechanus after my last one got destroyed?
I'm very interested in this topic.. I'm going to mull this over for a bit.
Couple of ideas for expanding Repair that spring to mind at the moment...
1) Demolish: Use half your Repair dice as Sneak Attack Vs. Constructs.
2) Mad Bomber: Use half your Repair dice as a damage bonus with grenade-like weapons.
As for new Prototypes maybe a Rocket Drone (Can shoot one Rocket per round that deals damage as a Fireball spell)
Maybe an ability that lets you use your Mechanus as the origin point for Drone Prototypes. Or integrate Gadgets or Drone Prototypes into your Mechanus.
Oooh, yay! How about an ability that can 'boost' other gadgets?Say something like the metaword boost in WoP.
I like that idea Cheapy.
What about some sort of Mobius battery that can instantly recharge one use of another Gadget or Greatwork?
I was thinking a moebious battery too! Except, I was thinking more new uses for it. Like that turret? Suddenly it can be attached to a shield or a backpack, and then follow you or the team tank around!
I was thinking a moebious battery too! Except, I was thinking more new uses for it. Like that turret? Suddenly it can be attached to a shield or a backpack, and then follow you or the team tank around!
Hey yeah that's a good idea! you could even have some synergy with the Mobius Detonator Trick, like use your battery as a improvised bomb or add the battery to the Crossbow Turret like you said but when the turret is out of ammo...BOOM.
Yea! And they could make multiple batteries, and maybe even implant them into allies. Then you could put one battery in the launching compartment of the turret so that it shoots tiny explosive arrows (rockets!) and then another in the ammo compartment, so once it's out of ammo, it explodes too!
Basically, a greatwork that lets you focus on your other gadgets, maybe even giving you more gadgets than most machinesmiths?
Another idea I had was about the Analyzer greatwork, where you might make a trick that grants a bonus to perception checks due to your analyzer scanning for heat, movement, or other types of indications that were indicative of the presence of others around you, maybe within 60 feet or so?
Other than that, maybe some tricks that allow your weapon to be used as a tool for getting into a locked door, maybe by turning it into a blowtorch or lockpick?
That is an intriguing idea. Could make it similar to the analyzer and have ti take up certain slots.
Another idea I have (though definitely one that would need careful attention to balancing issues) is to make a gadget that functions as per the Alter Self skill so the Machinesmith could disguise himself, which could be useful if he was a 10th level Transmechanical Ascendant that wanted to appear as his previous race rather than what he'd become. Also to avoid anyone who would scream heretic at him for using technology in the way he/she does.
Or maybe this could be a more rogue-like archetype instead?
I think the batteries for gadgets idea is okay. But, I don't think that qualifies for a greatwork. I think it should be able to do more. A battery for gadgets sounds like, well, a gadget honestly. Not a bad thing but not necessarily a greatwork.
I have a player in my game that is starting with a Machinesmith, and when I did a little bit of comparison between the Mechanus and other pets (most noteably the Eidolon) it seemed to be not up to snuff, so I added a few things to it...
First, I gave the MachineSmith a pool of points that they could use to tweak their Mechanus, akin to an Eidolon's Evolutions. In fact, I used points equal to that of a Summoner of 2 levels lower (to counteract the benefit of construct immunity). Obviously, some Evolutions would have to be trimmed, and I admit that the execution is a bit sloppy, but it might be a starting block of value. The way I saw it, if a Machinesmith was constantly tinkering and adjusting their Mechanus, then waiting 5 levels to have a benefit was a bit much.
Secondly, I gave the Mechanus hardness, that scaled with level, so that it lined up with the DR that it was already getting, and replaced it, but by being a gradual scaling it gave the Mechanus a little something that helped in the intervening levels, and, I think, also exemplified their constant tinkering.
Neither of those things, I think, are terribly disruptive, though the Evolutions stuff I am not sure how you could safely adjust that into a trick.... perhaps some kind of modular upgrade system?
As far as new stuff, I love the idea of a cruise missile or predator drone... perhaps some kind of disposable recon probe. Also, Squishy's ideas of Demolish and Mad Bomber I think open up new vistas of usability for the Repair feature.
I seem to recall a Gnome Tinkerer Prestige class from the Pre-Pathfinder epoch that had "virtual" item creation feats, and could make wonderous items, wands, and the like, but they took two adjacent slots... like Gauntlets of Ogre Power that took both the forearm and ring slots for instance, and appeared to be big pneumatic gauntlet things. The "up" was that they could build them for less, and the material components used could be re-purposed for other items, and that they would only work for them... That could be a good fit, and with some tweaks, might be significant enough for qualifying as a new masterwork... some sort of universalist?
Using the ideas from Nephilim for the points would be good, similar to a monk spending a point to gain an extra attack, +4 dodge AC, or an extra attack... Hmm, how about something like this?
At fifth Level the Machinesmith gains techno points equal to 1/2 its Machinesmith level plus INT modifier.
At fifth level the Machinesmith can spend a techno point to grant his Mechanus one of the following abilities as a swift action: One of the following abilities: Immunity to Magic overcome by Rusting Grasp (normal effect per the spell plus stunned for one round) and Grease (Instead of the normal effect, the Mechanus gets an extra move action this round)
Gain a temporary 60 fly speed poor maneuverability.
Choose either Improved Overrun, Improved Grapple, or Improved Bull Rush; the Mechanus gains the chosen feat for a number of rounds equal to its Hit Dice.
As to the worry about your own personal mech becoming too strong, maybe the above abilities would be similar to have an animal familiar, so the above could simply be made into an archetype. One where you have to choose the Mechanus as your greatwork? The table for the Mechanus is already pretty well set up for that build, all it'd require is choosing the Mechanus for your greatwork and waiting until fifth level to make your Mechanus Large (assuming you're a medium sized Machinesmith, if you're small sized then you could already ride a medium sized Mechanus) so you could create what would essentially be a mechanical mount instead of a biological one such as a riding dog for little halfling Cavelier over there.
I'd like to focus more right now on thinking of a new greatwork if it's okay with you gentlemen.
The mechanus will get new stuff, but there won't be too much since I mean to it's meant to be tougher than an eidolon or animal companion made of emat but not necessarily better if you understand my meaning. So anything the mechanus will get is likely going to be based around the machinesmith's other abilities. Remember though for those that are using Mechanus's that they do have quite a lot of HP, and get bigger sooner than other pets. They have advantages, but they're not pouncing kill beasts like the other two, and I never meant for them to be. So expect for them to do more, and perhaps even be slightly better at offense. But don't expect a lot.
So far the best Idea I've heard for a new greatwork is soemthing akin to a battery, a power source to charge up gadgets. I'd say you can also use this to charge up other abilities, such as Repair, Axiom, Prototypse and the like.
The issue I have with this is that while it's interesting it's not particularly fun sounding.
While the Battery is a great idea that I whole heartily support I feel like a Mobius Battery is more of a Gadget idea and working like a Gadget that improves other Gadgets and Prototypes.
as for a new Great Work, what about some sort of PSI-Helmet that lets the Machinesmith hack people's minds?
Or some sort of Teleporter device?
I keep thinking of Metron's Mobeus Chair... not really a vehicle per-se, but definitely more than your normal chair.
How about something that can create force-constructs? Akin to walls and Bigby's spells? There's not much that focuses on Force energy, if memory serves (which it often does not) but some kind of Emitter device might be fun. Tie it to something akin to a Shadow Conjuration or Evocation, but Force-based instead of Shadow based, and you could have a pretty potent universalist.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I had begun writing a document for translating some of the upgrades from the Mega Man X series over to a format usable by the Machinesmith. In my extremely biased opinion, I think that they are worth looking into for a an official release.
It's a few pages long, and I'd rather not drop that much text into the thread, so that document and its ideas can be found here: Mega Man X Techniques and Gadgets for Machinesmith.
I'd like to focus more right now on thinking of a new greatwork if it's okay with you gentlemen.
The mechanus will get new stuff, but there won't be too much since I mean to it's meant to be tougher than an eidolon or animal companion made of emat but not necessarily better if you understand my meaning. So anything the mechanus will get is likely going to be based around the machinesmith's other abilities. Remember though for those that are using Mechanus's that they do have quite a lot of HP, and get bigger sooner than other pets. They have advantages, but they're not pouncing kill beasts like the other two, and I never meant for them to be. So expect for them to do more, and perhaps even be slightly better at offense. But don't expect a lot.
So far the best Idea I've heard for a new greatwork is soemthing akin to a battery, a power source to charge up gadgets. I'd say you can also use this to charge up other abilities, such as Repair, Axiom, Prototypse and the like.
The issue I have with this is that while it's interesting it's not particularly fun sounding.
Hmm, well then how about making a greatwork armor? Seems like it could follow the same general rules as the greatwork weapon, just with slightly different additions.
Where the greatwork weapon grants damage boosting feats like power attack, Distant Aim, and Two-weapon fighting, perhaps the armor would grant things like Toughness, Endurance, Iron Will/fortitude/reflex, perhaps some skill feats like Acrobatic or Alertness, Demon Hunter, Dodge and/or Spring attack all for charges like the Moebius weapon already does?
Aside from that, perhaps an archetype for the Machinesmith that focuses less on it's greatworks and more on healing other characters, perhaps by giving up his greatworks that instead getting all healing spells added to his list of spells? Or by choosing his greatwork as a medical tool instead of as a weapon? Not sure how that's work out though, since there's already a trick that allows the Machinesmith to use his Repair on non-objects and constructs at half efficacy.
Also, I really like the Moebius Detonator talent that's in the main class build, and I'd like to see something around that trick as a build idea, or perhaps a similar talent that allows the Machinesmith to use his Moebius item as a scrying item instead of as a weapon. That way he could see what was going on from the point of view of his Moebius Item if it was taken from him or he gave it to someone else, and be able to become familiar with that location enough to teleport there, assuming enough time was spent observing said area?
Though the more I think of it, I'd say the above idea would be more easily accomplished with a Machinesmith build that was centered around Divination magic, which the Machinesmith itself doesn't gain. So maybe the above idea could be an Archetype rather than a talent of it's own.
A more offensive version of the Mechanus. That one focuses on defensiveness, and that's not as exciting as a player as an offensively capable one.
In general, I think you need to identify the key roles of the class, and have a greatwork for each.
The mechanus works with the 'tinkerer' aspect of the class. The analyzer works on the 'casting / utility' side of the class. And the moebious weapon doesn't really fit well, IMO, due to the fact that they don't get many other martial capabilities other than the 3/4ths BAB.
I know the defensiveness of the mechanus sort of turned me off from the class, as I wanted a pet robot, but not one that could just take hits and that's about it.
The problem with the anaylzer is that they really don't have enough devices per day to be a full-support style caster. It's a problem common to all 2/3rds casters, so it's not really unique to them.
I'd revisit the various aspects you want from the class, and make sure there's a greatworks to support that style of play. And especially focus the greatworks on more proactive use, rather than reactive. That's just more fun for the players :)
I keep thinking of Metron's Mobeus Chair... not really a vehicle per-se, but definitely more than your normal chair.
Maybe a Motherbox kind of items?
How about something that can create force-constructs? Akin to walls and Bigby's spells? There's not much that focuses on Force energy, if memory serves (which it often does not) but some kind of Emitter device might be fun. Tie it to something akin to a Shadow Conjuration or Evocation, but Force-based instead of Shadow based, and you could have a pretty potent universalist.
Are you thinking of Green Latern's ring or Evil Star or Black Hand's device? I guess you and I might have been reading too much DC Comics.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I keep thinking of Metron's Mobeus Chair... not really a vehicle per-se, but definitely more than your normal chair.Maybe a Motherbox kind of items?
How about something that can create force-constructs? Akin to walls and Bigby's spells? There's not much that focuses on Force energy, if memory serves (which it often does not) but some kind of Emitter device might be fun. Tie it to something akin to a Shadow Conjuration or Evocation, but Force-based instead of Shadow based, and you could have a pretty potent universalist.Are you thinking of Green Latern's ring or Evil Star or Black Hand's device? I guess you and I might have been reading too much DC Comics.
Somehow I knew invoking Kirby would summon Louis.
Vehicle, if done properly, would be a terrific addition to the greatworks options. I'm not sure if you'd want to do that tied to the UC vehicle rules or maybe focus more on it as a personal mobility device. Both approaches would have pros and cons.
As for the mechanus, perhaps expand the tricks that synergize well with it. There is certainly room to add in gadgets and techniques that are mechanus-specific or specifically designed to take advantage of the mechanus' share trick ability.
If tweaking the current mechanus rules is an option at all, you may want to consider making the mechanus' share trick ability more robust by increasing its range. Changing the base rules or having a way to mitigate the loss of armor enchantment on the mechanus would also be nice... it's far too risky to sink resources into taking advantage of the enchantment option with the current mechanus rules. It'd also be nice to be able to integrate gadgets into the mechanus similar to what I did on the mobius suit (maybe a stackable technique could do this if modifying base mechanus rules isn't an option).
I'd be interested in a set of gloves/rings/armbands/boots/cape/whatever that bestow acrobatic and stealth capabilities. Things like being able to blend into your surroundings, run up walls, make insane jumps, and so on.
Vehicle options would be cool (to put my support behind what has already been said). It could start out like a mount, then be given other customizations, like limited speed boosting (or teleporting), wall-climbing, ramming spikes, and flight; then, in later levels, it could take more passengers and gain projectile attacks. Maybe even some siege weaponry like ballista or cannons that your other passengers can fire.
I would personally love some vehicle options myself. But as already been pointed out they would either require usign paizo's vehicle rules, or require me to add another ruleset to the game. I'm honestly not inclined towards either. Which is an honest shame.
It could be done somethign like a mount, as already mentioned, make it similar to a mechanus that can't attack. That's possible. PErhaps even able to expand on it abit by creating exceptions to the mounted rules (so the mount can grant total cover, etc.). It's possible but I'm not so sure about adding another giant block of text to the class. We'll see.
A "stealth suit" sounds neat but doesn't really fall within the theme of the machinesmith. Cheapy has it right on the money that each greatwork supports a particular role or style of play for the machinesmith. That's partly why the battery idea somewhat intrigues me since it encourages the machinesmith to take on lots of gadgets and a "gadgeteer" style can be encouraged.
I didn't think of the possibility of the armor enchantment option being a potential issue so the idea of being able to recover money invested might be an Idea. Though I'd probably want to incorporate the recovery idea into other things as well to make it more efficient.
There is a need for a trick or technique to add a cockpit to the mechanus. Now all that defense is useful AND you're driving a giant robot. Everyone wants to ride a mecha. Fact of life.
I also support the force construct idea. Maybe as an addition or expansion to the convertor from Cutting Edge Machinesmith.
And the Mobius Suit from the same book is awesome, that should be a core greatwork.
A more technical version of this idea expanded out. This would allow them to focus more on the crafting side of things.
Hmm, well I just thought of something, there's a line within the Mechanesmith class that states, "
Unless specifically stated, only the machinesmith that created the greatwork knows the intricacies of the operating the machine. Spell-like abilities granted by a greatwork use the operator's levels in machinesmith to determine their effects."
So what about adding some tricks/talents/other abilities to the greatwork weapons and Mechanus? So far, only the Analyzer has any spell-like abilities, so maybe the Greatwork Weapon and/or Mechanus could have a spell-like ability that allows it to gain the benefits of some of the spells from the Machinesmith's spell lists? Or perhaps the weapon could grant a class bonus to the Machinesmith's ability to cast his/her spells defensively equal to the weapon enhancement modifier. You might also add an ability for the Mechanus that allows it to take any attacks of opportunities aimed at the Machinesmith for casting said spells in melee when adjacent to said Machinesmith.
Nar'shinddah Sugimar
There is a need for a trick or technique to add a cockpit to the mechanus. Now all that defense is useful AND you're driving a giant robot. Everyone wants to ride a mecha. Fact of life.
I also support the force construct idea. Maybe as an addition or expansion to the convertor from Cutting Edge Machinesmith.
And the Mobius Suit from the same book is awesome, that should be a core greatwork.
I support your idea of a force construct, though I must point out that there's already the Construct Armor modification within the Pathfinder content, though to do that with the Machinesmith you'd have to let your Mechanus be destroyed first. Then you could rebuild the construct using the standard magic item creation rules, which would then allow you to remake your Mechanus with the ability to wear it as armor, as per the Construct Armor modification.
Oops, sorry, I meant force constructs like Nephelims idea. Here:
How about something that can create force-constructs? Akin to walls and Bigby's spells? There's not much that focuses on Force energy, if memory serves (which it often does not) but some kind of Emitter device might be fun. Tie it to something akin to a Shadow Conjuration or Evocation, but Force-based instead of Shadow based, and you could have a pretty potent universalist.
New greatwork - Generator? Built entirely around force effect generation. That could be a cool concept, but it would have to have a specific purpose focus. The moebius weapon is designed to bring the boom to the battlefield, and the converter is designed to fill the support/control role. A new Generator (or whatever) greatwork would need to have its own niche without making either of the others obsolete.
Oops, sorry, I meant force constructs like Nephelims idea. Here:
How about something that can create force-constructs? Akin to walls and Bigby's spells? There's not much that focuses on Force energy, if memory serves (which it often does not) but some kind of Emitter device might be fun. Tie it to something akin to a Shadow Conjuration or Evocation, but Force-based instead of Shadow based, and you could have a pretty potent universalist.
Those sound like good prototypes. I actually have seomthing where such an idea might fit quite nicely.
How about gadgets?
I've several in mind, a couple you can actually convert as a base for a mobius weapon.
How about gadgets?
Pulling from the document I linked earlier (more details within here):
- A helmet that can be used as a 1d4 natural attack, as well as being able to spend a charge to sunder an object with triple damage and ignoring hardness- Boots that let you treat jumps as having a running start, as well as being able to spend a mobius charge to fly in a straight line equal to his base speed
- Some reactive armor that adds a deflection bonus to AC (lasting until the end of his next turn) every time he is hit
- An upgrade to that armor which stores blast charges when he is hit, which may be released in an energy blast
also, some of the existing options could be less underwhelming. explosive ammo is particulary underpowered.
There will be no erratta or changes to the base. The base itself is fine. However that doesn't mean it can't be made better by simply expanding available options. I just don't see a need to change what's there.
As for the Fleshwraith? That's a question only Louis and the original designer can discuss. I was initially approached about it but there was a long period where I didn't want to mess with the machinesmith anymore and wanted others to play around with it (design-wise) before I threw in again. As a result I actually know very little of the new material after its initial release beyond that it wasn't altogether that much.
If we want to get Meta, what about a Theme-music generator. The music's "feel" changes to warn them that something is about to happen, providing an initiative bonus, and possibly some Sense motive bonuses as well.
I'm only half kidding...
Think about it, if you could hear the sound track to your own movie, that would totally be an advantage. Unless you're like a French nihilist or something.
[EDIT]
Some other gadget ideas, off the top of my head -
* One other thing that is shockingly missing from D&D generally, and I can't understand why, a cloak of freakin' invisibility!
* a book that you write questions in and some otherworldly arcane intelligence provides cryptic answers to... like an arcane Oracle, but in book. Not really "gadget"-y without going a little too tech, but it is a niche that could be worth filling...
* some kind of device that provides Cure spells, perhaps akin to a tricorder or Medkit, its downside might be requiring time that is not really viable in mid-combat, and\or expensive herbal materials.
* Single-use battlefield control "grenades" - things like Solid Fog, Entangle, or even Charm Monster, though this might be getting a tad too close to an Alchemist. On the other hand, making them into "trick arrows" sorts of things might be an interesting spin
Two of tht things you listed already exist for the machinesmith in some form.
The invisibility cloak is a base gadget the amchinesmith can take.
And the battlefield control grenades is the purview of the Bombardier archetype. Which replaces the Greatwork with Alchemist bombs.
Something else that I think might be worth looking at at upper levels - a gadget that can temporarily apply templates to yourself or others. Perhaps a matched set of boots and gauntlets, and they take up those slots (the downside), but they can be used to simulate a template that you have an appropriate (tissue) sample from.
Two of tht things you listed already exist for the machinesmith in some form.
The invisibility cloak is a base gadget the amchinesmith can take.
And the battlefield control grenades is the purview of the Bombardier archetype. Which replaces the Greatwork with Alchemist bombs.
Apologies, in those cases. I'm away from my texts, and I clearly forgot those! ;)
Something else that I think might be worth looking at at upper levels - a gadget that can temporarily apply templates to yourself or others. Perhaps a matched set of boots and gauntlets, and they take up those slots (the downside), but they can be used to simulate a template that you have an appropriate (tissue) sample from.
While that sounds absolutely neat I think that's more towards the purview of the Fleshwraith.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So I decided to give you a good peek at what I'm working on at the moment. I've gotten the first drafts of gadgets and prototypes finished. And this is mroe or less hammered out. Next up I'm doing techniques, augmentations, and after that I haven't quite yet decided. I have feats and two archetypes in mind but we'll see.
New Great Work: The Constructor
Some machinesmiths create magnificent examples of technology that enhance their already considerable abilities to forge, sculpt, or otherwise create wondrous tools. These machinesmiths build constructors. Capable of building anything from mundane items to powerful magic weapons, these greatworks are invaluable to adventuring machinesmiths looking for the right tool at the right time.
Base Constructor: A base constructor is an item that takes up the machinesmith’s belt or hands slot. It has a number of charges equal to the machinesmith’s Intelligence modifier+1/3 its class level per day. As a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a machinesmith can expend a charge to create a simple item made of glass, clay, wood, stone, or soft non-precious metal or alloy (such as brass, bronze, copper, or tin). The machinesmith creates this item from raw mobius energy and does not require having the materials on hand. The item can weigh no more than 5 lbs.+ 1 lb. per machinesmith level. The item cannot contain any complex chemical component or moving parts (such as a firearm). The item’s size is limited to that which the machinesmith can easily carry and hold in one or both hands. The item appears in hand and ready to use from the moment of its creation. Weapons created with a base constructor are treated as having the fragile weapon quality.
A machinesmith can create masterwork variations of any item he is creating. In order to do so they must expend an additional charge plus make an appropriate Craft check for the item with a DC equal to the item's normal craft DC +10. Failure on this check indicates that a normal item is created instead, while the extra charge is still expended. Masterwork weapons created in this fashion lose the fragile weapon quality.
Items created this way are fleeting in their existence only lasting a number of minutes equal to the machinesmiths class level before dissipating back into nothingness.
1st Upgrade: At 5th level the machinesmith can create iron and steel items. In addition he can create slightly more complex items that require more than one component (such as a bow or a wooden spear with a steel point). In addition a machinesmith may choose to imbue an item he creates with magical properties. In order to create a magical item he must create a masterwork version of the base item first, then expend another charge (for a total of three charges) and make a Spellcraft check with a DC equal to the normal check required for creating item +15. This check includes any increases to DC for not meeting the prerequisites of the item. If the machinesmith has the prototypes for the spells required to build the item he may expend those prototypes while creating the item to reduce the DC for creating the item. The machinesmith must still possess the necessary crafting feats for the item and must meet the minimum caster level requirements. Failure on this check indicates that the item is destroyed and the charges wasted.
For example; if a machinesmith at 10th level wished to create a +1 longsword he would first need to spend three charges from his constructor and make a DC20 Craft (Weaponsmithing) check. Then he would be required to make a DC23 Spellcraft check to imbue the sword with the appropriate amount of magic. If he instead wished to make a +1 flaming longsword he would still need to expend the charges from his constructor and make the above Craft check. However the DC for the Spellcraft check would increase to 30 or 35 if he did not have any of the necessary prototypes memorized to fulfill the prerequisites.
The machinesmith cannot create cursed items or potions, scrolls, wands or staves. If a machinesmith creates an item with an ability that emulates a spell (such as a ring of invisibility) that ability is suppressed for the duration of that items existence.. If the machinesmith creates an item that uses charges that item starts with zero charges and can only benefit the machinesmith through passive means. (e.g. a luck blade will still function with its bonus to saving throws and reroll ability but effectively has zero wishes) Magic items created in this way are even more temporary than mundane items created by the machinesmith and last only 1 round per level. The machinesmith cannot create any magic item for which he does not possess the necessary crafting feat for. If a magic item created in this way is successfully dispelled the item dissipates entirely as if the duration of the item has expired. Items that have a special effect upon destruction (such as placing a portable hole into a bag of holding) have no special effect beyond their destruction.
So there you have it.
It was a tough write up to get it to my satisfaction and it's still not done being polished.
However it's rapidly becoming a favorite of mine. It rewards creativity and encourages heavy investment in an area not often explored by most characters and opens up a role that the machinesmith was lacking in more so than straight up combat.
It's a great support item that matches the machinesmith well. The class is all about "stuff". So a greatwork that allows him to get the right "stuff" is very much in line with the class.
Right now it's more or less just running through and making sure to hammer out the game breaking exploits (minor ones are fine and expected game breaking ones are bad).
In any case I thought 'd give a small preview here just so you know about the progress and things to look forwards to.
Nifty!