Small cavaliers suitable for PFS?


Pathfinder Society


I'm joining my first PFS game next week. I'm considering a halfling cavalier with a dog or wolf mount. Since the canine is medium, I'm hoping it won't pose too much of a problem in terms of entering dungeons. Will my character still be viable/suitable for most PFS content?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Make sure you have a backup plan in case you can't charge, but otherwise you can do fairly well with small cavaliers. I've got one up to 9th that has been able to charge fairly well.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Yep. :)

Also, welcome to PFS!

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you're going for an offensive character, I would suggest getting Power Attack before you start working on the Mounted Combat chain. Charges are awesome, but they don't happen all that often.

I would also suggest buying a block and tackle with your rope: I never ran into GMs who told my a pony wouldn't go up stairs, but there were a few who asked "so, how are you going to get that thing up a cliff/down a well?" Answering "We hook up a block and tackle, I can drag more than the pony weighs, so once I hook him up I'll pull him to the right height."

Welcome to PFS and have fun with your cavalier!

Sovereign Court 1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If it works for your character, I suggest the Wheeling Charge feat for PCs from Lastwall. Having that 90 degree turn during a charge makes setting one up consistently a far easier task.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Since you've got a Dex bonus and Str penalty, you might also consider focusing on archery instead of melee. That would work better with a Samurai than Cavalier.

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

Suitable? That's about all I've seen!

Silver Crusade 5/5

David Bowles wrote:
Suitable? That's about all I've seen!

You sir, must not have the infestation of Axebeak riding Cavaliers that we do in WNC... O, the horror...


Thanks for the input, everyone! Even if I can't charge, I'm hoping that my cavalier does reasonably well by double teaming foes with his wolf. If I recall correctly, if his wolf attacks first, my cavalier can also attack in that round if he succeeds on a DC 10 Ride check.

1/5

As long as you understand the trouble with ladders and fancy dinner parties you will be fine. As a pathfinder you will run into both.

I would recommend adding hosteling to your armor as soon as possible (from Ultimate Equipment) and i would keep 2 to 3 scrolls of Carry Companion (from Knights of the Inner Sea) for teammates to cast until you get the expensive armor upgrade.

And welcome to PFS.

The Exchange 5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Venture-Captain Grayson, Defender of Lastwall, swears on his adorable Halfling butt that being a small cavalier and riding a WARPIG! is the only way to go.

Seriously, Halfling on boar with wheeling, spirited charge is a beast. You may not get a bunch of attacks like those losers with a pair of kukris, but your damage won't be as swingy, either. I pretty much know that I am going to do 110 points of adamantium, ghost touch, heartseeking lance damage to somebody on every single round of combat. Not only that, but after I do that 110 points of damage, I am going to be 40 feet away from them, so they can't hit me back.

Not only that, but Halfling cavaliers make fantastic diplomats. Heck, everybody loves Halflings, we are super charming and extremely good looking. (Diplomacy +22 may not be game-breaking at 15th level, but Grayson has gotten me through as a party face on many occasions.)

I get to wear extra shiny full plate without having to worry about silly things like being all slow and tired from walking around everywhere. I do get distracted every so often and miss out on the first few seconds of combat because I was busy polishing a bit of shmutz off the ol' breastplate, but that's okay, Ozzy the WARPIG! gets me into the thick of things in time. (With a 10 Wisdom, and no ranks in Perception, Grayson may not be the most observant Halfling in town, fortunately Ozzy the WARPIG! has blind-fight, scent, and a half-decent Perception bonus.)

That strength penalty everybody jabbers about? Pfft! I am typically the strongest person in my party. I have to be, what with having to hoist Ozzy the WARPIG! up ladders with a rope and harness every few adventures. (I have only run into three or four situations in 15 levels where I wasn't able to simply ride the pig wherever I need to be. Once you hit fifth or so, and have access to Fly, why are you walking anywhere anyhow?)

And all that noise about how a small lance doesn't do as much damage as a large lance? Stupid humans, don't they know it isn't the size of your lance, but the way you handle it? (Seriously, 3d6+105 and 3d8+105 are effectively the same exact thing in the long run).

I can tell you that Grayson has easily been one of my favorite RP characters of all time, and his combat effectiveness is usually the best at the table.

Sovereign Court 1/5

I had the fun of running with a very charitable halfling charger who always made sure to let other members of the party get a few hits in before he insta-gibbed whichever enemy he targeted.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Luthril wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Suitable? That's about all I've seen!
You sir, must not have the infestation of Axebeak riding Cavaliers that we do in WNC... O, the horror...

Hey, I only have one level of Cavalier. The rest is Oracle, but the infestation of greatsword-wielding combat Oracles is another problem entirely.

But just wait until I can take a level in Mammoth Rider...

Grand Lodge 5/5

Randy Newman wrote:
Short people got no reason

:)

3/5

Grayson, Defender of Lastwall wrote:
And all that noise about how a small lance doesn't do as much damage as a large lance? Stupid humans, don't they know it isn't the size of your lance, but the way you handle it? (Seriously, 3d6+105 and 3d8+105 are effectively the same exact thing in the long run).

How are you getting +105 on a charge? Ask anyone in my gaming group, my halfling cavalier is the worst character in the group. And that's including the gunslinger at level 9 who is still only capable of doing 1d8+1 damage per shot.

I am not a fan of the cavaliers in PFS. There are not as many situations as you think there would be to charge, and you also have to assume that the people you are playing with are charitable enough to let you get the charge. :)

5/5 5/55/55/5

Yes.

Even without being able to charge you can still usually lance attack 5 foot step up mount attack +trip (or if you start adjacent, mount attack +trip 5 foot step back lance attack)

Just keep a scroll of carry companion on hand to hand to a spellcaster if you need to get the puppy inside.

4/5 ****

Tarma wrote:
Grayson, Defender of Lastwall wrote:
And all that noise about how a small lance doesn't do as much damage as a large lance? Stupid humans, don't they know it isn't the size of your lance, but the way you handle it? (Seriously, 3d6+105 and 3d8+105 are effectively the same exact thing in the long run).

How are you getting +105 on a charge? Ask anyone in my gaming group, my halfling cavalier is the worst character in the group. And that's including the gunslinger at level 9 who is still only capable of doing 1d8+1 damage per shot.

I am not a fan of the cavaliers in PFS. There are not as many situations as you think there would be to charge, and you also have to assume that the people you are playing with are charitable enough to let you get the charge. :)

Remember that the 105 is after being tripled by spirited charge. So it's really a damage modifier of + 35.

Lets say by lvl 9 we've got +22 Str (started with a 16, 2 stat bumps and a +4 item)

That's +9 for two handing the lance. We can add +9 from challenge, +9 from Power Attack, +1 from the magic weapon, +2 from cockatrice.

There's 3d6+90 for you on a charge. Considering the character mentioned was lvl 13 at least I imagine one could easily squeeze out at least 5 more damage in 4+ levels.

2/5

Honestly, I retired my small cav as he was simply too good.

His character was level 14. A +35 to damage isn't all that hard to do at that level. Power attack is +12 if all cav, +5 from weapon. Str of 24 would mean +10. I am missing +8 damage from somewhere, and I just included the basic stuff.

Dark Archive 4/5

Well the obvious is that level 13 power attack is +12 (+3 for bab 1 and +3 for bab 4,8,12), and level 13 challenge is +13 meaning you get +9 Str + 13 Challenge + 12 PA + 1 Magic Weapon = +35

Scarab Sages 5/5

Iammars wrote:
Make sure you have a backup plan in case you can't charge, but otherwise you can do fairly well with small cavaliers. I've got one up to 9th that has been able to charge fairly well.

At low levels there is always the combat trained Dire Bat you can buy so you can charge 5/10 feet off the ground and miss all your party members - with your lance with reach.

Higher levels the dire bat does not survive very long. And when the GM says something like why would it go underground, your whole party can look at him/her funny. It probably also does nicely with mounted archery.

2/5

Ride the Boar, go Cockatrice Cavalier

1st Mounted Combat
2nd Dazzling Display for free (with the Braggart ability)
3rd Ride By Attack
5th Power Attack
6th Wheeling Charge
7th Indomitable Mount
9th Spirited Charge
11th Dreadful Carnage
12th Furious Focus

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Tarma wrote:
the gunslinger at level 9 who is still only capable of doing 1d8+1 damage per shot.

Sorry for the threadjack, but how is this even possible? Surely Gun Training kicked in when they reached 5th level?

My Gunslinger (pistolero) 5 does 1d8+6 damage per shot as standard (+5 Dex (inc. +1 from belt), +1 magic), and 1d8+11 when applying Deadly Aim and Point Blank Shot.

The Exchange 5/5

Paz wrote:
Tarma wrote:
the gunslinger at level 9 who is still only capable of doing 1d8+1 damage per shot.

Sorry for the threadjack, but how is this even possible? Surely Gun Training kicked in when they reached 5th level?

My Gunslinger (pistolero) 5 does 1d8+6 damage per shot as standard (+5 Dex (inc. +1 from belt), +1 magic), and 1d8+11 when applying Deadly Aim and Point Blank Shot.

Maybe he's a Mysterious Stranger, that would replace Gun Training wouldn't it?

3/5

Pirate Rob wrote:
Grayson, Defender of Lastwall wrote:


Remember that the 105 is after being tripled by spirited charge. So it's really a damage modifier of + 35.

Lets say by lvl 9 we've got +22 Str (started with a 16, 2 stat bumps and a +4 item)

That's +9 for two handing the lance. We can add +9 from challenge, +9 from Power Attack, +1 from the magic weapon, +2 from cockatrice.

There's 3d6+90 for you on a charge. Considering the character mentioned was lvl 13 at least I imagine one could easily squeeze out at least 5 more damage in 4+ levels.

Ok, that makes a little more sense. I thought I was missing out on something major here. Thanks!

3/5

Paz wrote:
Tarma wrote:
the gunslinger at level 9 who is still only capable of doing 1d8+1 damage per shot.

Sorry for the threadjack, but how is this even possible? Surely Gun Training kicked in when they reached 5th level?

My Gunslinger (pistolero) 5 does 1d8+6 damage per shot as standard (+5 Dex (inc. +1 from belt), +1 magic), and 1d8+11 when applying Deadly Aim and Point Blank Shot.

It's a mysterious stranger who doesn't get gun training. The player saw that they got grit from their charisma bonus so they created a really high charisma and have a really low Dex. On top of that, they don't use Deadly Aim since they have no Dex mod and don't want to miss attacks, since they're basically hoping to hit on die.

As a side note, Mysterious Strangers are awful. :P

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

If he's playing a gunslinger with no Dex bonus, I suspect the archetype is more or less irrelevant to his effectiveness!

Silver Crusade 5/5

Paz wrote:
If he's playing a gunslinger with no Dex bonus, I suspect the archetype is more or less irrelevant to his effectiveness!

Yerp, what he said... gotta split between Dex and Cha, like a Ninja...

To the OP, Halfling Cav is the way to go in society! Halflings are the best anytime pets are involved! Summoner, Nature Oracle, Paladin - All with a Wolf or Wolf look alike in the case of the Summoner... and All broken damage by mid to high levels!

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Tarma wrote:
As a side note, Mysterious Strangers are awful. :P

It sounds more like user error. Hopefully they have learned from their mistakes for the next character they make.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 *

Tarma wrote:
Grayson, Defender of Lastwall wrote:
And all that noise about how a small lance doesn't do as much damage as a large lance? Stupid humans, don't they know it isn't the size of your lance, but the way you handle it? (Seriously, 3d6+105 and 3d8+105 are effectively the same exact thing in the long run).

How are you getting +105 on a charge? Ask anyone in my gaming group, my halfling cavalier is the worst character in the group. And that's including the gunslinger at level 9 who is still only capable of doing 1d8+1 damage per shot.

I am not a fan of the cavaliers in PFS. There are not as many situations as you think there would be to charge, and you also have to assume that the people you are playing with are charitable enough to let you get the charge. :)

your gunslinger obviously doesn't know his character or is the worst build ever. At level 5 gunslingers add their dex bonus to damage. So unless your gunslinger only has a dex of 12---they would do more damage than that based upon dex alone. Then add in point blank, deadly aim, pistol bonus if magical etc

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 *

level 9 gunslinger--should have 20 dex or 22
dwarf with favored class and +1 reliable pistols for no misfire

1d8 + 14

+6 from dex
+1 from point blank
+ 6 from deadly aim
+ 1 from magic weapon

8 shots a round with double barrel pistols in each hand using weapon cords to reload, alchemical cartridges and rapid reload

to hit

+1 from pistol
+ 9/+4 from level
+6 from dex
+1 from Point blank
-4 for double barrels
-4 for two weapon fighting
-3 for deadly aim

so 8 attacks at
+5/+5/+0/+0
+5/+5/+0/+0

most of your large or huge monsters you fight at that level have touch ac of 10 or lower--some as low as 5

so say 5 to 6 hits for 5d8+70 or 6d8 + 84

gunfighter gets much worse at level 11---that jumps to 12 attacks a round----add distance to pistols to give him touch to range 14. and add signature deed of up close and deadly (for a cost of zero grit allowing its use every shot)

so all 12 attacks now add 3d6 damage----and he will do 36d6 divided by half even if every shot misses. gunslinger could be 200 feet away (distance =40 for first category--times 5 for maximum range on double barrel pitsols) and still do half of 36d6 guaranteed damage on a creature

your friend should remake his weak gunslinger

Shadow Lodge

Tarma wrote:
As a side note, Mysterious Strangers are awful. :P

Wha? Mysterious Strangers are amazing!

Grand Lodge 5/5

1) Tarma is exaggerating a bit on the lack of damage that particulr character does...I think...

2) That particular character was the player's first character he played more than once, I think, and was built by someone else for him. He barely knew how to use it at all until about level 4, when we realized he didnt actually know what to do with it, and forced his friend to teach him how it works. :P

Scarab Sages 4/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

wakedown wrote:
Tarma wrote:
As a side note, Mysterious Strangers are awful. :P
Wha? Mysterious Strangers are amazing!

... and mysterious!


Akerlof wrote:
I would also suggest buying a block and tackle with your rope: I never ran into GMs who told my a pony wouldn't go up stairs, but there were a few who asked "so, how are you going to get that thing up a cliff/down a well?" Answering "We hook up a block and tackle, I can drag more than the pony weighs, so once I hook him up I'll pull him to the right height."

Thank you for that bit of advice! In the course of my first adventure, my wolf and I fell into a 20ft pit trap. I tossed the block and tackle up to the uber-strong fighter above, problem solved :D.

4/5 ****

VerdantSF wrote:
Akerlof wrote:
I would also suggest buying a block and tackle with your rope: I never ran into GMs who told my a pony wouldn't go up stairs, but there were a few who asked "so, how are you going to get that thing up a cliff/down a well?" Answering "We hook up a block and tackle, I can drag more than the pony weighs, so once I hook him up I'll pull him to the right height."
Thank you for that bit of advice! In the course of my first adventure, my wolf and I fell into a 20ft pit trap. I tossed the block and tackle up to the uber-strong fighter above, problem solved :D.

I am honored to have run your first PFS session for you, and hope to see you again soon.


Ditto, Pirate Rob. It was a really good intro and I'm looking forward to more!

4/5 ****

http://www.bayareapathfinder.com/ is the site that has the links to all the BAPS locations as well as a few other helpful links.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

I admit I am deeply sad that small cavaliers can't take giant geckos as mounts. It very nicely solves the problem of ladders and wells.

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