There's a feat called Step Up...


Rules Questions

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Shadow Lodge

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There's a feat called Step Up so...wheres the Step Back feat?


Acrobatics check. Best used if you have it as a class skill, and put some ranks in it. If you don't have it, a 5' step helps, against opponents with a 5' reach.

There's also full defense, withdraw, or fighting defensively. Casters can take a feat that lets them cast defensively.


Trait for Acrobatics and then take Skill Focus (Acrobatics)

If you're a wizard versus a fighter at level one, the fighter's got like 15-16 CMD and now you have +10-+11 to acrobatics (1 rank, 3 trained, 1 trait, 3 skill focus, 2-3 stat).

By level ten you're at like +29 with the right magic item and his CMD is 29.

There's a reason there was not acrobatics as a trait, now there is, just take it, enjoy having your cake and eating it too and stop complaining

Shadow Lodge

There an immediate action Step Up feat.

Wheres the immediate action Step Back feat?

And I dont know how this thread ended up here since I thought I was posting the Gamer Talk forum.


What do you think a "step back" feat should entail?

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Champions of Purity wrote:

Careful Combatant (Combat)

You have a strong sense of self-preservation, believing it is more important to safely extract yourself from a fight that has turned hopeless than to stubbornly stand your ground and risk death—for when you're dead, you can't protect the innocent.

Benefit(s): When using the withdraw action, both the first and second squares of your movement are not considered threatened by any opponents you can see, rather than just the first square.

Near enough to what you want? (it is a combat TRait)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Why do you need a feat to counter one specific feat? How often are you going to encounter it?

Also, if a fighter uses Step Up on the wizards turn with his immediate action from his following turn, does he have his immediate action back to use if it gets back around to the wizards turn again and the wizard 5ft steps again?

Sczarni

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

That is an amazing trait.


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I want a Step Up 2 The Streets feat first.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:

Why do you need a feat to counter one specific feat? How often are you going to encounter it?

Also, if a fighter uses Step Up on the wizards turn with his immediate action from his following turn, does he have his immediate action back to use if it gets back around to the wizards turn again and the wizard 5ft steps again?

Using it "burn" his swift action for the next turn but his immediate action is recharged at the end of his turn, so it is available the next time the wizard will act.


Step up 2 electric boogaloo!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Diego Rossi wrote:
Using it "burn" his swift action for the next turn but his immediate action is recharged at the end of his turn, so it is available the next time the wizard will act.

Immediate actions use up your swift action. They're the same action, just usable in different parts of the round.

Edit: But I do see the text that states your immediate actions refresh at the end of your turn. Thanks!

Shadow Lodge

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Why do you need a feat to counter one specific feat? How often are you going to encounter it?

Also, if a fighter uses Step Up on the wizards turn with his immediate action from his following turn, does he have his immediate action back to use if it gets back around to the wizards turn again and the wizard 5ft steps again?

What I'm looking at is, theres a step up for someone stepping back to disengage to cast , use an item, etc.

Why isnt there a feat to step back from an opponent taking a 5' step to full attack.


Because publishing 2 Feats to simply nullify each other is less interesting than other Feats,
and if they published that then some yahoo would probably ask why isn't there some Feat that counters that Feat, etc...


You can ready an action to take a 5' step and perform a standard action when an enemy becomes adjacent. No feat required.

Shadow Lodge

I guess I'm not making my self clear.

Step Up is an example of an existing feat, not a feat I'm looking to counter.

Cant seem to bring words to mind for what I'm trying to say.


I vote that it isn't printed to avoid a world-consuming paradox of cyclical one-upmanship.

Step Up -> Step Back -> Step Up a bit more -> Step Back a bit more -> Step and a Skip Up -> etc etc etc


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Step Master Feat? Cleaving Step? Step Specialization?

Shadow Lodge

I guess what I'm looking for is....

Theres a feat to keep your opponent engaged, Step Up, etc..

Why isnt there a feat to keep from being engaged?


Something like Evasive Maneuvers from 3.5 Tome of Battle, where you could trade your AoO for an immediate 5ft step?

Shadow Lodge

No Evasive Reflexes is not what I'm looking for.

I dont think a feat exists for what I'm looking for.

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

We don't think so, either.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Spider Step?

Step Up and Strike?

Following Step?

Cloud Step?

Light Step?

Stony Step?

Acrobatic Steps?

Airy Step?

Gliding Steps?

Giant Steps?

Sidestep?

Improved Sidestep?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

You want a feat that triggers similar to the Barb rage power Unexpected Strike: When an opponent moves adjacent to you, you may take a 5'-step as an immediate action.

Kinky.

Funny enough, that Evasive feat, +Unexpected Strike would do the job.

There are some rogue talents similar I think, but I don't think you can break engagement.


Capital Step
Super Step
Step and Fetch It (for retrieving Disarmed items)
Step and a Half
High Steppin'
Wicked Stepbrother/sister

The possibilities are endless!

Sovereign Court

Erm, don't you think a feat that would make you effectively immune from being full attacked in a lot of situations would be horrifically overpowered?

Also the game shouldn't be forced to be symmetrical. I've written posts about that before on other similar subjects.


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The opposite of the step up, might be the step slip. You try to step up, but fall down a hole/pit/magical portal. Some sort of crazed knack for slipping to safety when you would have got killed.


So you want a feat that lets you 5' step away from someone as an immediate action? That sounds just a little bit too powerful.


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Such a feat shouldn't exist. We want to make caster's lives more difficult, not easier. They already get to rule the world, we should get a chance to eviscerate them along the way.


It's called "I ready an action to step back if anyone comes in melee range."

If you are so close to someone that you are afraid to get full attacked, either you should not be in melee, or you need to move out of range.


It's not really a feat. But my favorite method of dealing with that situation (as a caster). Is to use a free action and ask my barbarian friend to kill the guy who stepped up. The barbarian is a caster's best friend.

You can also insert a fighter or ranger or whatever into that role. In my game right now, it's a barbarian.

Sczarni

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

That's called, "If you step up, he strikes".

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Jacob Saltband wrote:

I guess what I'm looking for is....

Theres a feat to keep your opponent engaged, Step Up, etc..

Why isnt there a feat to keep from being engaged?

Because before there was Step Up the fighter had no way to prevent the wizard from simply stepping back and ensorcelling him. Casters were effectively immune to melee as they could just step away and cast. This feat was meant to address the issue.


Calybos1 wrote:

Capital Step

Super Step
Step and Fetch It (for retrieving Disarmed items)
Step and a Half
High Steppin'
Wicked Stepbrother/sister

The possibilities are endless!

Beware, the dreaded Two-Step!


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Who would the Step back feat benefit?

Casters. Who are already very powerful and do not require another buff to protect them from melee opponents.

Archers. Who if built correctly can usually out damage melee opponents who don't get as many full attacks.

Melee Characters w/ reach weapons. Not overly powerful w/out it, but again, why let them avoid damage when they can return the attack w/ no fear of harm?

Who would it hurt?

Anyone playing a melee focused character not using a reach weapon. B/c, you know, they are so overpowered right now and need to be nerfed.

That's why there is not a Step Back feat.


What would be its limitations? If they 5-foot in, you 5-foot away. What if they declare a move, and only move 5 feet? What if they charge? What if you are Bullrushed? What if they have readied actions?

What if you only have to plan ahead slightly, or the Monster eats your face?


Strannik wrote:

Who would the Step back feat benefit?

Casters. Who are already very powerful and do not require another buff to protect them from melee opponents.

Archers. Who if built correctly can usually out damage melee opponents who don't get as many full attacks.

Melee Characters w/ reach weapons. Not overly powerful w/out it, but again, why let them avoid damage when they can return the attack w/ no fear of harm?

Who would it hurt?

Anyone playing a melee focused character not using a reach weapon. B/c, you know, they are so overpowered right now and need to be nerfed.

That's why there is not a Step Back feat.

Give it pre-reqs that only dashing rogues, rangers and fighters can take. Those that can fight like fencers, and not wizards or casters (unless they want to go along this route).


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Jacob Saltband wrote:
There's a feat called Step Up so...wheres the Step Back feat?

OR "Step-down"

And what about the "stepping out" feat?

And "Stop, drop, shut 'em down open up shop?!"


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Casters do NOT need any more 'get-out-of-threat-free' cards. They need fewer.


Shadowdweller wrote:
Casters do NOT need any more 'get-out-of-threat-free' cards. They need fewer.

+1 to this.


Jay the Madman wrote:

It's not really a feat. But my favorite method of dealing with that situation (as a caster). Is to use a free action and ask my barbarian friend to kill the guy who stepped up. The barbarian is a caster's best friend.

You can also insert a fighter or ranger or whatever into that role. In my game right now, it's a barbarian.

Stop, drop, shut 'em down open up shop!


Glutton wrote:
I want a Step Up 2 The Streets feat first.

I preferred the "Bring it on" series.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

No love for a 'Dub-step' feat?


To OP: If you want to keep the opponent from engaging you with a 5ft step you don't need a feat. Just use a spell that generates difficult terrain (like ice storm) including the square the fighter would have to enter to engage you. As you can't use a 5ft step to enter difficult terrain (barring some special abilities) you are save. (at least save from the 5ft step + full attack. Or you could be a teleportation specialist and teleport some sqares away at the end of your turn.
There are several options to do what you want. No feat needed.


Mmmmm Teleportation specialist. :)

- Gauss


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:


Because before there was Step Up the fighter had no way to prevent the wizard from simply stepping back and ensorcelling him. Casters were effectively immune to melee as they could just step away and cast. This feat was meant to address the issue.

Right. The Step Up feat addresses an actual need in the game rules - a way to keep pressure on the archers and spellcasters who normally have the advantage in the rules. All they needed to do was take a 5' step back to be able to do their worst to the fighter with impunity (meaning: without provoking AoO from their target). Step Up redresses that imbalance for players who want to prioritize the tactic of keeping foes engaged and threatened.

Adding a Step Back feat would just mess that up. You want to not be engaged? Keep well back of the front line and hope your own friends can keep the Step-upping fighters and monks at bay.


TriOmegaZero wrote:

Why do you need a feat to counter one specific feat? How often are you going to encounter it?

Also, if a fighter uses Step Up on the wizards turn with his immediate action from his following turn, does he have his immediate action back to use if it gets back around to the wizards turn again and the wizard 5ft steps again?

Because it's a 1st level feat that literally anyone could have.

And while the intent was likely "screw the casters!" it actually does quite the opposite. Concentration DCs are still very easy in PF (aside from grappling concentration checks), and at least the wizard GETS a check.

Step Up screws over reach weapon users and archers. Archers can't fire while threatened without drawing an insane amount of hurt (far more than a wizard just casting one spell). Reach weapons just plain do not work inside their reach.
Archers have a feat (Point Blank Master) to avoid their issues, but it is higher level w/ stiff pre-reqs and only like...3 classes/archetypes in the entire game (Fighter, Ranger, and Zen Archer) can get it.
Reach users...have their backup weapon?

It's insane that PF has Step Up at first level, outright DESTROYING certain fighting styles, but no feat to counter it, at any level. And in the same game system that went out of its way to nerf the spiked chain into the ground and make it very hard if not impossible to get a reach weapon that hits adjacent; that's the double whammy.

You're thinking of wizards, but the reason Step Up is broken is the archers and reach weapon users who get so easily foiled by it.


Litany of steps!


Umbral Reaver wrote:
Litany of steps!

Power Word: Step

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