Siege of Diamond City [SPOILERS!]


GM Discussion

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Shadow Lodge 5/5

Made some really simple printouts/table-tents for the effects of Threat Level, Pathfinder Supplies options, and Aid Token options for tiers 5-6 and 7-8. Feel free to add more tiers to the file.

Silver Crusade

Kyle Baird wrote:
TetsujinOni wrote:
There's something to be said for grossly powerful 12-13 tables making running the demons easy, Kyle....
I meant it more along the lines of ~12 different demons, each have their own unique abilities. Going to be a challenge to use them effectively, especially the Epic target at the end for 14-15. Already spent an hour play-testing tactics with it.

I wouldn't mind picking your brain on the high tier stuff if we get the chance.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pirate Rob wrote:
They strip 1d4 boons.

At GMs choice. I strip the goblin boon.

Grand Lodge

Andrew Christian wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:
They strip 1d4 boons.
At GMs choice. I strip the goblin boon.

Why you gotta hate?


Daniel Luckett wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
TetsujinOni wrote:
There's something to be said for grossly powerful 12-13 tables making running the demons easy, Kyle....
I meant it more along the lines of ~12 different demons, each have their own unique abilities. Going to be a challenge to use them effectively, especially the Epic target at the end for 14-15. Already spent an hour play-testing tactics with it.
I wouldn't mind picking your brain on the high tier stuff if we get the chance.

Sure, just find me when I'm not busy collecting tears. I'll be warming up for the Special by running Eyes of the Ten.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Garble Facechomper wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:
They strip 1d4 boons.
At GMs choice. I strip the goblin boon.
Why you gotta hate?

I don't hate, I just wanna see the look on your face when you realize you don't have a race anymore.

Silver Crusade

Andrew Christian wrote:
Garble Facechomper wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:
They strip 1d4 boons.
At GMs choice. I strip the goblin boon.
Why you gotta hate?
I don't hate, I just wanna see the look on your face when you realize you don't have a race anymore.

If he doesn't have a race, does he have a face?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Fromper wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Garble Facechomper wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:
They strip 1d4 boons.
At GMs choice. I strip the goblin boon.
Why you gotta hate?
I don't hate, I just wanna see the look on your face when you realize you don't have a race anymore.
If he doesn't have a race, does he have a face?

Well at the very least it would probably be a blank look.


Now why would you rip up my goblin boon if I'm GMing... Once again, fish face makes no sense. Give me your stars. I need more.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Kyle Baird wrote:
Now why would you rip up my goblin boon if I'm GMing... Once again, fish face makes no sense. Give me your stars. I need more.

I have special dispensation from HQ that says I can rip up one of Kyle Baird's boons ;b

Sovereign Court 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For people who ran at Paizocon:
Were you upfront with the players about what effect the threat level was having on the encounters? Or was it just "You're going to have a harder time in red districts than in yellow ones?"

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I did not mention what changes the threat level caused to my players. So for the most part it was just an indicator of how much work needed to be done in each district. One amusing thing was how everyone would rush to the red districts, and no one would be maintaining the green districts, so by the time they had improved the red ones, the green ones had gone red. :)

Silver Crusade

That kinda how I expect it to be, TOZ. Players are going to see the threat level as which areas need the most help, so they'll want to go there. I wasn't planning to tell them about the mechanical changes, though I might drop a vague hint when they enter a red district that things might be harder here.

I'm also going to try and make a point of being next to a seeker table, so that my table can pick up an aid token or two along the way. I love that they came up with a good table interaction mechanic for this one, so I want to make sure I get to use it. And I have friends playing at tier 14-15, so I hope I can be at the table next to theirs.

The Exchange 5/5

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Fromper wrote:
I'm also going to try and make a point of being next to a seeker table, so that my table can pick up an aid token or two along the way. I love that they came up with a good table interaction mechanic for this one, so I want to make sure I get to use it. And I have friends playing at tier 14-15, so I hope I can be at the table next to theirs.

Same here, I know a bunch of folks from Atlanta and Birmingham making a 14-15 table under Kyle B, and I hope my 7-11s can sit next to them and listen to the weeping.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I did not mention what changes the threat level caused to my players. So for the most part it was just an indicator of how much work needed to be done in each district. One amusing thing was how everyone would rush to the red districts, and no one would be maintaining the green districts, so by the time they had improved the red ones, the green ones had gone red. :)

After reading through it, I kinda thought this would be a major issue.

I'm running one of the 12+ tables, so what do you all think about, if while handing out their Aid Tokens, that we have the seekers kinda take command of which district they should go to, so that we make sure we have at least one or two teams still covering the Green Districts.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

After reading the aid section, I feel as if things are a little unclear. The section could be interpreted to give players aid tokens after every encounter, or once after any encounter. How should it be read?

Silver Crusade

Netopalis wrote:
After reading the aid section, I feel as if things are a little unclear. The section could be interpreted to give players aid tokens after every encounter, or once after any encounter. How should it be read?

I took it to mean that they get the tokens after every encounter. Just re-read it to be sure, and I still that's the intent.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

During our playtest, every Seeker player was able to hand out a token to a lower level table. This was a little rough as we didn't have enough aid tokens to go around. (Hopefully they have fixed this problem.) Reading the final document, it seems this is still the case. Another problem was the fact that players had to run and find a table to give the token to, and some Seeker tables were right next to each other. I also understand that my wife's lower level table had a whole pile of unused tokens. (I imagine the upped difficulty will help that issue.) I had personally written out the available uses on note cards for my players to know what they could use them for. (Which then were useless at my table. XD)

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Aaaand the threat/resupply/aid tokens file has been updated for all tiers.

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Captain, Washington D.C. aka Grolick

Mike Lindner wrote:
The monster appendix is missing the Worldreaver for subtier 5-6. I produced a stat block in Hero Lab and posted it to the shared prep drive.

Where is the shared prep drive? I need the Worldreaver.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Trevor, go here.

Sovereign Court 4/5

The World Reaver is the 8th Level Cleric from the NPC Codex with the Agile Template from the scenario applied.

Silver Crusade

Iammars wrote:
Those of you who played/ran A5. Who's the foulest of them all? (The shadow demon encounter) - can you give me an idea of how that encounter played out at your tables? It looks like one of the hardest to prep for and I'm curious how it played out at Paizocon.

I notice nobody really answered this. I agree that this looks like one of the toughest to run, but potentially the most fun for an RP heavy group. Anyone have any suggestions?

Also, for encounter selection throughout Act 2, how is everyone planning to do this? Actually roll dice for random selection? Try to get a feel for the group and feed them encounters you think they'd like? Plan in advance for which encounters you'd most like to run?

I was actually thinking of asking my players before hand whether they like social encounters, or lean more towards the "hack-n-slash" play style, then picking encounters based on how they respond. I was also thinking that since there's one encounter that takes place right there where they start at the Starrise Spire, I might just start Act 2 with that one regardless of other considerations, then move on to the rest of the encounters more randomly after that.

Liberty's Edge

Fromper wrote:

Also, for encounter selection throughout Act 2, how is everyone planning to do this? Actually roll dice for random selection? Try to get a feel for the group and feed them encounters you think they'd like? Plan in advance for which encounters you'd most like to run?

I was actually thinking of asking my players before hand whether they like social encounters, or lean more towards the "hack-n-slash" play style, then picking encounters based on how they respond.

I'm going to choose them ahead of time though I'm prepping two different versions of the order: one that leans more towards combat and one that is RP/skill heavy. I'm sure I'll modify or ignore the preset order though once the rubber hits the road.

Quote:
I was also thinking that since there's one encounter that takes place right there where they start at the Starrise Spire, I might just start Act 2 with that one regardless of other considerations...

Good idea. Yoink!

I noticed an oddity while rereading the scenario last night. Act 2 kicks off by saying that everyone hears Thurl's lodge explode but A9 make no mention of such an explosion. I wonder if it would be kosher to combine A9 and A2, to make it that an explosion did indeed occur at the lodge and the looters are ransacking it rather than a random bank.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I dispensed with the randomness and picked encounters as I thought appropriate, based on where my party chose to focus. I probably should have asked if they wanted more combat or not, but there isn't a lot of choice either.

Silver Crusade

Well, two of the three that can take place in any location are social encounters, so you can choose to either run those or not depending on party preference. And there's one trap-focused encounter that you'll probably only want to run if there's a rogue with some trap finding/disabling ability. So there's definitely things you can do to choose encounters based on your party.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, Canada—Ontario—Ottawa aka The ShadowShackleton

I intend to keep it random. Sometimes the most funny moments of a game session can come when you have a party woefully ill-suited to the encounter at hand.

My best running of Throaty Mermaid was with a party of six dwarves with no social skills.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, Canada—Ontario—Ottawa aka The ShadowShackleton

As for A5 I am laying out the face cards to help keep the suspects straight.

Speaking of which, we really need a female dwarf face card.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

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Glen Shackleton wrote:

As for A5 I am laying out the face cards to help keep the suspects straight.

Speaking of which, we really need a female dwarf face card.

There are female dwarf face cards. The trick is figuring out which ones they are.

Silver Crusade

Here's a silly question: What alignment are the NPCs in this? I'm talking about all those enemy NPCs with stats from the NPC Codex or Gamemastery Guide. Should we use the alignment from the Codex, or assume they're all chaotic evil, given that they're helping demons? Just in case of spells, smites, or other abilities that vary their effect by alignment, this is important to know.

For that matter, for AoE stuff that varies by alignment, the alignments of the innocent bystanders could be important, too. Should we assume all the random crusaders throughout are lawful good?

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

I would assume CE for everything except the encounter with Katrina Deckland.

Liberty's Edge

I don't know that there is an official answer to this so I'm soliciting opinions: would the demons in SotDC count as summoned creatures or not? Specifically, would they be able to use their own summoning abilities?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Yes, they can use their summon abilities. You could certainly rule that they have used them in previous engagements of the siege however, depending on how hard a time your table is having.

Scarab Sages

I was wondering if a global envornmental change would effect all tables. For example: If someone casted Alter Winds. Would that be something that has to be relayed to all the tables?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Unfortunately no.

Scarab Sages

Even if it has an effective radius spanning in miles?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

The Overseer GM could perhaps make adjustments like that, but there is nothing in the scenario allowing it specifically. The Seeker Aid Tokens are meant to represent such interactions in the abstract.

Alter Winds is a poor example as it only has a 10ft radius.

Scarab Sages

But the PFS legal Globe of Blizzards would change all that, correct?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Again, it is outside the scenario, and would be up to the overseer unless the campaign staff rule otherwise.


I'm planning on running random selection unless we hit a pocket of encounters with similar areas of focus and the players appear to be frustrated or bored, in which case I'll make sure the next encounter shakes things up a bit.

As for demonic abilities, most demons around the Worldwound have planeshifted themselves or have been called rather than summoned, so they would have access to teleportation and summoning abilities. Unless they're triggered by a summoning circle or something similar, of course!

I'd guess the explosion at Thurl's lodge could simply be from that area. It's not close enough to the Starrise Spire that we'd really know in-game where it occurred, and it doesn't get mentioned explicitly in boxed text -- only that there's an explosion and reports of demons invading the city.

Quick question on the aid/supplies stuff: In Act 2, Pathfinder Supplies, subtier 1-2 says that aid can be received up to 3 times between encounters. The wording says “each PC may choose to receive”. Does this mean each PC receives a selection for each aid (so 12 selections total for a table of four) or that each aid allows one PC to choose from those selections (so only 3 selections total at a table of four)? BIG DIFFERENCE!

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

I GMed this at PaizoCon UK...

clovercanuck wrote:
I'm planning on running random selection unless we hit a pocket of encounters with similar areas of focus and the players appear to be frustrated or bored, in which case I'll make sure the next encounter shakes things up a bit.

That's exactly what I did, and the random selection worked well enough that I didn't need to tamper.

Quote:
Quick question on the aid/supplies stuff: In Act 2, Pathfinder Supplies, subtier 1-2 says that aid can be received up to 3 times between encounters. The wording says “each PC may choose to receive”. Does this mean each PC receives a selection for each aid (so 12 selections total for a table of four) or that each aid allows one PC to choose from those selections (so only 3 selections total at a table of four)? BIG DIFFERENCE!

The party can call for aid three times. Each time they do, every PC chooses one of the options available (healing or weapon/ammo) individually.

Remember that this aid can only be called for in Act 2.


Awesome - thanks! That does seem the most fair way to handle the aid distribution, especially if there are more than 4 players at the table, but I wanted to make sure I didn't end up being THAT GM who goes all soft on folks. :)

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

Kyle Baird wrote:
TetsujinOni wrote:
There's something to be said for grossly powerful 12-13 tables making running the demons easy, Kyle....
I meant it more along the lines of ~12 different demons, each have their own unique abilities. Going to be a challenge to use them effectively, especially the Epic target at the end for 14-15. Already spent an hour play-testing tactics with it.

For those wondering, Kyle's "tactics" consisted of spending every other turn teleporting away from our big damage dealers. It's purely coincidence that the destination was right next to Joe Caubo.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Posted this in another thread - realized it was probably more relevant here.

One thing that could've been clearer was how to deal with the gold in this adventure. I had a table at subtier 1-2 with a pair of level 3 players. My solution was to make a "out of subtier" between 1-2 and 3-4 and give them that, and since it sounded reasonable to the HQ guy who was standing behind me (Kyle Pratt, iirc), I went with it. It would be nice to see some official guidance as to how to deal with Out-of-Subtier gold for scenarios with more than 2 subtiers. (See also, all the 1-7's from year 0 & 1)

Scarab Sages

Add the gold for the two closest subtiers for the 1-7, so for example, 1-2/3-4, divide by 2 round down. I think this is how it works in the new Guide.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

You take the sub-tier that the PC actually played and the sub-tier the PC is actually in to determine the appropriate gold.

So a 1st level PC playing the 3-4 sub-tier would get the average of 1-2 and 3-4. A 5th level playing 3-4 would get the average of 3-4 and 5-6.


Just so everyone knows. At the special I talked To John Compton about out-of-tier gold. If you have players that do not fall into the sub-tier, give the out-of-tier gold. One of the reasons they didn't put it on there was that they did not have room for them on the sheet.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

Confused by Act 3 for tier 7-8. The table lists 7+ as the Advanced Savage Vrock, but the monster listing is for the Mythic Vrock. Do you do one then the other (which happened when I played at gencon) or is only one correct?


I used the Mythic Vrock.

The mythic vrock is almost the same thing as an advanced savage vrock. The advanced savage vrock has better stats. I think they just forgot to alter that the table to fit the rest when they transitioned from the playtest to the final.

5/5

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The advanced savage vrock is a holdover from the PaizoCon version of the special. It should be a mythic vrock.

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