Chasing the Philosopher's Stone: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Alchemist


Advice

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Great guide, and yes infusion is evil and a lame tax.

Silver Crusade

Some Random Dood wrote:
Great guide, and yes infusion is evil and a lame tax.

Thanks a lot, I hope you found it helpful.

And yeah, Infusion is terrible. Most GMs I run with don't even know about it, they assume the class can share extracts without an ability tax. I do too.

Personal houserules for the class for me are

1st Level: Free Infusion Extract
2nd Level: Free choice of Feral Mutagen/Tumor Familiar/Precise Bomb

Those discoveries are too vital to be taking up limited slots to me, and feel pretty intrinsic to the class.

I'd still like to get more clarification on the "Deliver Touch Spell" ability of Tumor Familiars, since it does apply to mutagen as well (check the ability description of Tumor Familiar), which could possibly make the Alchemist a MACHINE at Action Economy, even without Poisoner's Gloves (which are omni perfect.)


Yea, I think feats/class abilities should be streamlined a bit. If something is an obvious choice for a particular fighting style (such as power attack) or a class (like infusion), it should be built into the rules/class.

Silver Crusade

Some Random Dood wrote:
Yea, I think feats/class abilities should be streamlined a bit. If something is an obvious choice for a particular fighting style (such as power attack) or a class (like infusion), it should be built into the rules/class.

Thinking of seeing if a Greensting Scorpion with the Extra Item Slot feat could possibly wear Poisoner's Gloves, since it'd be thematic and awesome.

And a minor change, now that I've become SLIGHTLY more Google Doc literate, I might be moving this guide over there due to the increased space and such. It would also allow me more pictures (probably taking the place of quotes, possibly in addition to them), better formatting of some information that right now is misplaced due to the space constraints that I had doing this on a forum post (kicking myself now for those), and a few other things that I think will greatly enhance this guide.

Silver Crusade

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The new version of the guide is now LIVE!

A few big changes include the downgrade of C. Hyde to a sub role, a bit more organization with sections being placed in more logical locations, and a damn lot of sweet pics.


N. Jolly- love the guide! Just a little find not sure if it's useful. Journal of the beast within is a preconstructed spellbook that in addition to having some handy spells in it has a ritual that empowers your mutagen once per day to give a better bonus. Its cost isn't that high and could be a handy little trick at lower levels. Here's the ritual

"Preparation Ritual

Beastly Concoction (Su) This journal grants you the ability to make an extremely potent and savage mutagen. Spend this boon when you imbibe your mutagen. The mutagen grants you a +6 alchemical bonus to your selected ability score instead of the normal +4; you take a –2 penalty to all of your mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma) while the mutagen is in effect."

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spellbooks
control-f for "journal of the beast within"

Silver Crusade

ashern wrote:

N. Jolly- love the guide! Just a little find not sure if it's useful. Journal of the beast within is a preconstructed spellbook that in addition to having some handy spells in it has a ritual that empowers your mutagen once per day to give a better bonus. Its cost isn't that high and could be a handy little trick at lower levels. Here's the ritual

"Preparation Ritual

Beastly Concoction (Su) This journal grants you the ability to make an extremely potent and savage mutagen. Spend this boon when you imbibe your mutagen. The mutagen grants you a +6 alchemical bonus to your selected ability score instead of the normal +4; you take a –2 penalty to all of your mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma) while the mutagen is in effect."

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/spellbooks
control-f for "journal of the beast within"

Thanks a lot, man. I actually had someone address this in the other thread, and I'll say the same thing here.

That's a hard call, seeing as you're either getting -1 to your will save that you weren't before or -1 to your bomb damage, which isn't as bad. It's a trade off that I'm not too incredibly happy with, but I can see it being useful to some people, so I'll probably include it once I finish with a few other things.

Mutagen users are going to pass by it eventually on the way to Great Mutagen, and non Mutagen users aren't going to like losing all their mental stats. I could probably add it, it'd maybe be high orange/low green, but it's not something I'd recommend.


N. jolly: besides ghats retch flask, fungal stun vial, certain drugs from pathfinder (opium, shiver), tangleburn bags and other great save or suck items; do you know of any other ones? Burst jar is awesome because it always works, and eats up one of their actions to remove it if they wish to.

Poison doesn't really work too well since they need a save to take the effects. Anything for knocking opponents unconscious, automatically, or very difficult to resist?

Silver Crusade

Grizzly the Archer wrote:

N. jolly: besides ghats retch flask, fungal stun vial, certain drugs from pathfinder (opium, shiver), tangleburn bags and other great save or suck items; do you know of any other ones? Burst jar is awesome because it always works, and eats up one of their actions to remove it if they wish to.

Poison doesn't really work too well since they need a save to take the effects. Anything for knocking opponents unconscious, automatically, or very difficult to resist?

I wish there was, but aside from what I've found in the guide, I can't find a lot else to combine for debilitating effects.

As for knock outs, the best advice I can give is the Poison Conversion (Drow Poison) into inhaled poison and stacking it to high hell until it's at a DC you won't be able to avoid. There's more about that in the Poison Primer if you're looking to find ways to make poisons work better.

Silver Crusade

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There, the damn guide is complete AGAIN! And this time, unless I decide to add a few things like:

-Alchemical Weapon primer
-Advancing sample characters

But considering I just finished the mythic options (not fun to do), this guide is officially complete at 80 freaking pages.

As for my new projects, I'm working on a mini guide for the Synthesist Summoner, which won't be nearly of the same scope, but should help clear up a lot of issues that people seem to have with this archetype.

But as of now, this is THE definitive guide to the Alchemist class, and I'm damn proud to have made it.


Dorian 'Grey' wrote:
Darkwood buckler is cheaper.

No such thing as a Darkwood buckler. What's called a "Darkwood buckler" is actually a Darkwood light wooden shield (look up it's description and check it's price and specs--they're calling it a buckler, but it's a light shield). Bucklers can't be made of Darkwood. And a light wooden shield does not leave your hand free for other actions. (sorry, too late at night for thread search, but there's ruling/explanation on the boards somewhere).

But fear not, dear heroes, for those of you looking for a cheaper alternative, all you need is a masterwork buckler, because masterwork drops ACP by one. (And is actually cheaper than Darkwood, because no special material cost). Casters go for Mithral buckler because no Arcane Spell Chance failure--not an issue for us bomblovers.

There's also no weight reduction for just masterwork. Of course, since my gnome grenadier only has 5 strength, he didn't bother with a buckler at all. Since he's PFS, just picked up wand of shield and wand of mage armor with his first four prestige points--with UMD as class skill, can usually get Mage Armor to work even if there are no casters in the group to cast it for him.

And remember, for bombers, Reduce Person is a win-win spell. Improve to hit by two, AC by two, stealth by 4, and no penalty to damage. Add all those up with Dex bonus mutagen, and my 22inch tall reduced person Gnome has even played the tank role for a desperate group who lost only frontline character in first encounter. And with an AC 26 at lvl 2 (starting with Dex of 14, mutagen, shield, mage armor, & reduce person), was perfectly fine leading the group. Open door, chuck bomb, 5' step into room, chuckle at puny attempts to hit. Next round, 5' step back and finish 'em off. Then it's time to celebrate with a little greensting scorpion poison--hey, I didn't take a tumor familiar just for the boost to initiative and perception.


In your evaluation of Clone Master, you wonder about the L16 feature being a retread of what one gets at 8. My understanding is that the ability you get at 16 can make a clone of anyone. Go full Nikola Tesla for the whole party, given the time. :)

Haven't looked through this thread to see if this has been discussed, but wanted to mention it.

Later on,
Ghorrin

Silver Crusade

Redblade8 wrote:

In your evaluation of Clone Master, you wonder about the L16 feature being a retread of what one gets at 8. My understanding is that the ability you get at 16 can make a clone of anyone. Go full Nikola Tesla for the whole party, given the time. :)

Haven't looked through this thread to see if this has been discussed, but wanted to mention it.

Later on,
Ghorrin

I hadn't thought of this, but yeah that makes a lot of sense. We can go full Prestige on this party, I'll be sure to alter that description now, thanks a lot!


N. Jolly wrote:


I hadn't thought of this, but yeah that makes a lot of sense. We can go full Prestige on this party, I'll be sure to alter that description now, thanks a lot!

You're certainly welcome. Plus, now I've got the mental image of like, five guys all clambering out of clone vats, trying to figure out what just happened to them. This is approximately a bazillion times better as a starter scene than, "You all meet in a tavern." Someone, make this happen!

Later on,
Ghorrin


Really appreciate this guide and you're hard work. I am making an alchemist right now. I want to be a mad bomber due to everyone else in the party being melee.

I like the flavor of the Tiefling but as with most non fighter classes the alchemist is feat starved for what it needs to have to be powerful.

Noob question incoming: you can attach your bombs to arrows? That would be very cool. I also wanted to incorporate tumor familiar into my mad bomber build just not sure how to go about it feat wise and still be effective.


Amric wrote:

Noob question incoming: you can attach your bombs to arrows? That would be very cool.

Not without the Explosive Missile discovery.

Silver Crusade

Amric wrote:

Really appreciate this guide and you're hard work. I am making an alchemist right now. I want to be a mad bomber due to everyone else in the party being melee.

I like the flavor of the Tiefling but as with most non fighter classes the alchemist is feat starved for what it needs to have to be powerful.

Noob question incoming: you can attach your bombs to arrows? That would be very cool. I also wanted to incorporate tumor familiar into my mad bomber build just not sure how to go about it feat wise and still be effective.

Thanks a lot, always glad to help. And Mad Bomber is fun as long as you ration off your arrows well. It is feat/discovery intensive though sadly, so you won't get to have A LOT of fun immediately. I'd suggest asking your group if they'd let you use my houserule (listed near the end of the guide)

And Experiment 626 is right, although it can also be done with a Conductive Weapon, which is one of my favorite ways, even though it cuts your bomb use in half. It does still give you Archery as a fall back though, which is something you should be considering in the first place.


Just placing a dot for after work perusal.

Silver Crusade

Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Just placing a dot for after work perusal.

Just a tip, since the GITP guide is dead (since the damn forum is), use this link since the other link won't lead you anywhere. I do hope you enjoy it.


N. Jolly wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
Just placing a dot for after work perusal.
Just a tip, since the GITP guide is dead (since the damn forum is), use this link since the other link won't lead you anywhere. I do hope you enjoy it.

really great read sir, I had seen an earlier draft but it is much better now that it is complete. I was wondering what you thought of the utility of using the Grenadier ability to apply alchemy to crossbow bolts. The reason I ask is a badly want to make a decent crossbow character and I think this might be a cool way to do it...bolts with tanglefoot bags and sonic damage, bombs to throw, maybe work in the rogue bits and later on a familiar...

Silver Crusade

Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
really great read sir, I had seen an earlier draft but it is much better now that it is complete. I was wondering what you thought of the utility of using the Grenadier ability to apply alchemy to crossbow bolts. The reason I ask is a badly want to make a decent crossbow character and I think this might be a cool way to do it...bolts with tanglefoot bags and sonic damage, bombs to throw, maybe work in the rogue bits and later on a familiar...

Sadly, crossbows are what's known as "water balloon" weapons, which are 'weapons that are mechanically inferior due to real life equivalence', so you're going to be better off with a longbow for your archery needs. Alchemical Weapon to throw alchemical items onto bolts is all kinds of awesome, but there's even more alchemical arrows that would give you a one two punch on that. It really does suck, the valley between crossbows and longbows (for the feat you took to get Rapid Reload, you could get MWP Longbow), but you could make an acceptable crossbower with these, even if specialty bolts do suck in comparison to arrows.


N. Jolly wrote:
Lazurin Arborlon wrote:
really great read sir, I had seen an earlier draft but it is much better now that it is complete. I was wondering what you thought of the utility of using the Grenadier ability to apply alchemy to crossbow bolts. The reason I ask is a badly want to make a decent crossbow character and I think this might be a cool way to do it...bolts with tanglefoot bags and sonic damage, bombs to throw, maybe work in the rogue bits and later on a familiar...
Sadly, crossbows are what's known as "water balloon" weapons, which are 'weapons that are mechanically inferior due to real life equivalence', so you're going to be better off with a longbow for your archery needs. Alchemical Weapon to throw alchemical items onto bolts is all kinds of awesome, but there's even more alchemical arrows that would give you a one two punch on that. It really does suck, the valley between crossbows and longbows (for the feat you took to get Rapid Reload, you could get MWP Longbow), but you could make an acceptable crossbower with these, even if specialty bolts do suck in comparison to arrows.

Yeah, I know it is kind of polishing a turd, but I really want to try and make a not terrible crossbow build and it seemed like a novel approach. I will have to see how the party shakes out and see if I can get away with it.


I made a sample build I was thinking of using. It could use some refinement. Not sure this was the place to post it, if not I apologize. I stole heavily from you're guide :)

1st level: Alchemist: Race is Tiefling. Mad bomber role with Grenadier archetype. Martial weapon proficiency (A) is Longbow. Feat is Point blank shot. Traits are Accelerated drinker and Reactionary. I will take +1 to Intelligence at level 4 and 8.
2nd level: Bard: Arcane duelist archetype. Arcane strike (B).
3rd level: Alchemist: Discovery is Frost bomb. Feat is Rapid shot.
5th level: Alchemist: Discovery is Explosive missile. Feat is Extra discovery Tumor familiar.
7th level: Alchemist: Discovery is Infusion. Feat is Improved familiar.
9th level: Alchemist: Discovery is Fast bombs. Feat is Extra discovery Blind bomb.
11th level: Alchemist: Discovery is Sticky bomb. Feat is Manyshot.

Extracts
1st Level: Reduce person and Targeted bomb admixture.
2nd Level: Alchemical allocation, Barkskin, Invisibility, Touch inject and Vomit swarm.
3rd Level: Fly.
4th Level: Echolocation, Freedom of movement.

Bard spells
Orisons: Detect magic, Light, Mage hand and Message.
1st Level: Cure light wounds and Unseen servant.


Amric wrote:

I made a sample build I was thinking of using. It could use some refinement. Not sure this was the place to post it, if not I apologize. I stole heavily from you're guide :)

1st level: Alchemist: Race is Tiefling. Mad bomber role with Grenadier archetype. Martial weapon proficiency (A) is Longbow. Feat is Point blank shot. Traits are Accelerated drinker and Reactionary. I will take +1 to Intelligence at level 4 and 8.
2nd level: Bard: Arcane duelist archetype. Arcane strike (B).
3rd level: Alchemist: Discovery is Frost bomb. Feat is Rapid shot.
5th level: Alchemist: Discovery is Explosive missile. Feat is Extra discovery Tumor familiar.
7th level: Alchemist: Discovery is Infusion. Feat is Improved familiar.
9th level: Alchemist: Discovery is Fast bombs. Feat is Extra discovery Blind bomb.
11th level: Alchemist: Discovery is Sticky bomb. Feat is Manyshot.

Extracts
1st Level: Reduce person and Targeted bomb admixture.
2nd Level: Alchemical allocation, Barkskin, Invisibility, Touch inject and Vomit swarm.
3rd Level: Fly.
4th Level: Echolocation, Freedom of movement.

Bard spells
Orisons: Detect magic, Light, Mage hand and Message.
1st Level: Cure light wounds and Unseen servant.

The only thing I see is if your taking point blank and rapid I would try to squeeze Precise in there somewhere. It isn't needed for the bombs, but if your going that far you might as well make the bow useful...


I am not real concerned about the bow. I thought the PBS applies to the bombs and I thought that rapid shot was necessary to get the most out of fast bombs. Would you recommend TWF instead? That would free up a couple feats for me.


No you are correct, you need rapid shot....I am just not a proponent of an all eggs in one basket approach. Bombs are a finite resource and a solid back up plan is a good idea unless you do the 15 min. Adventuring day....rapid shot implies you aren't looking to pace yourself....and alchy fire and acid flasks don't level with you like a good bow does.

Shadow Lodge

Great Guide, N. Jolly!

This may have been mentioned [or I may have missed it in the guide], but I think Alchemist's Kindness deserves a mention. It isn't useful so much in combat-type situations, but its a great way to get on people's good side, and is dirt-cheap to craft. Its how my alchemist in one home-game started his weekly craft check for money.

Silver Crusade

EvilPaladin wrote:

Great Guide, N. Jolly!

This may have been mentioned [or I may have missed it in the guide], but I think Alchemist's Kindness deserves a mention. It isn't useful so much in combat-type situations, but its a great way to get on people's good side, and is dirt-cheap to craft. Its how my alchemist in one home-game started his weekly craft check for money.

Thanks a lot, glad you enjoy it. I consider myself an authority on the coolest class in the game.

As for Alch Kindness, I could honestly see adding it as a black option, since while it's not a real important thing, if you have a hard partying party, it could be worth more than a CLW for the Fighter who doesn't know how to hold their booze.


...


I hope you do reviews, and find other gem items/ combos using the Alchemy Manual that came out.

Silver Crusade

Grizzly the Archer wrote:
I hope you do reviews, and find other gem items/ combos using the Alchemy Manual that came out.

Alchemy manual?


http://paizo.com/products/btpy90bj?Pathfinder-Player-Companion-Alchemy-Manu al

Comes out next month.

Silver Crusade

Grizzly the Archer wrote:

Alchemy Manual

Comes out next month.

There is no reaction strong enough to show how excited I am for this. I doubt I'll pick it up right away, but this is going to change the guide a lot. Hopefully it won't take too long for d20PF/A. of N. to get it up, since I'm almost salivating at this piece of literature.


Does anyone use the preservationist type? Really having a hard time deciding between that and the Grenadier build for my goblin stealth bomber. The thought of throwing a little ball and a storm giant popping out is hilarious to me.


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Thanks for the guide, it's fantastic!

I tried to email you using the contact address at the end of it, but it bounced. :(

I had written this little addition that's missing, re: Tumor Familiar selection.

Quote:


Vivisectionist's gain the ability to perform surgery and cast Anthropomoprhic Animal... http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/anthropomorphicAnim al.html#_anthropomorphic-animal

Which, for a fee at 9th level, can be made permanent. This in turn opens up worlds of new options for familiars, as you can give hands to just about anything, without burning a feat on Improved Familiar, for example. Not that vivisectionists are generally all that feat starved, BUUUUTTTTT... It doesn't exactly hurt, and besides, having a talking snake familiar with arms is kind of rad, and it does open up a few of the more interesting passive bonuses, like the Save bonuses of a Hedgehog or Snapping Turtle familiar (certainly more useful than the Monkey's bonus to Acrobatics!) You basically trade 8,000 gold for not having to take Improved Familiar in order to have a non-monkey.

Is there any reason this *wouldn't* work/be useful?


Really a good guid!
But I still don't understand how infusion work on tumor familiar ; maybe you can help me?
If a tumor familiar drink an infusion with the touch range, can he used it on me? Or he will be the target of the spell?
For example, if my monkey tumor drink a cure light wound infusion, can he hold the charge and give it to me, or he just will be healed?

Sczarni

N. Jolly, I'm surprised you don't include the use of Dye Arrows for Grenadier's. They can be found in Elves of Golarion and now the Alchemy Manual and both sources are PFS legal.

The real joy of these is in the fact that Dye Arrows are A) alchemical items and can be crafted by Alchemists at 1/3 cost, B) follow the normal arrow/ammunition rules and C) hit Touch AC.

I've been using them for my Tiefling Grenadier for some time now, to devastating effect and expect even greater mayhem once I take Explosive Missle (I wanted Stink Bomb first for character reasons).

So, as a Tiefling with the Grenadier's Alchemical Weapon ability and the Explosive Missle Discovery you can first draw the Hybridized Acid Flask/Alchemist's Fire as a Swift action with the Prehensile Tail, infuse the Hybrid A/AF into a Dye Arrow as a move action and then use the Explosive Missle Discovery to infuse your bomb into the same arrow and fire it. This hits touch AC at Longbow range and inflicts 2d6+Intx2+xd6(bomb)+int damage to the target and splashes the bomb's splash damage (but not the hybridzed A/AF's). Furthermore, Explosive Missle discovery does not appear to prevent you from adding one alternate bomb Discovery, so you could tag on a Stink, Frost, Force or Explosive Bomb to that attack.

Silver Crusade

Raecyn wrote:
Does anyone use the preservationist type? Really having a hard time deciding between that and the Grenadier build for my goblin stealth bomber. The thought of throwing a little ball and a storm giant popping out is hilarious to me.

Nah, it's a great archetype, and I'd consider it the best 'generic' archetype myself. For damage or debuffing, I'd go Beast/Vivi or Grenadier respectively.

LessPopMoreFizz wrote:

Thanks for the guide, it's fantastic!

I tried to email you using the contact address at the end of it, but it bounced. :(

I had written this little addition that's missing, re: Tumor Familiar selection.

Well shazam, I did forget that little section. I'll have to change that later once I get back to the guide. Thanks for pointing it out.

Garbertios wrote:

Really a good guide!

But I still don't understand how infusion work on tumor familiar ; maybe you can help me?
If a tumor familiar drink an infusion with the touch range, can he used it on me? Or he will be the target of the spell?
For example, if my monkey tumor drink a cure light wound infusion, can he hold the charge and give it to me, or he just will be healed?

Thanks, glad to hear it.

And this section of the rules is a g&* d%&n mess. From how rules work, I'd say:

1. Alchemist drinks (cast) infusion
2. Familiar can now hold the charge
3. Familiar delivers charge as standard action

If we're working the same way, there's some rules loopiness where the Alch needs to drink it because that's how it's casting. If the familiar drinks it, they're 'casting' it, which is just stupid, but that's how I'd read the rules.

MrRetsej wrote:

N. Jolly, I'm surprised you don't include the use of Dye Arrows for Grenadier's. They can be found in Elves of Golarion and now the Alchemy Manual and both sources are PFS legal.

The real joy of these is in the fact that Dye Arrows are A) alchemical items and can be crafted by Alchemists at 1/3 cost, B) follow the normal arrow/ammunition rules and C) hit Touch AC.

I've been using them for my Tiefling Grenadier for some time now, to devastating effect and expect even greater mayhem once I take Explosive Missle (I wanted Stink Bomb first for character reasons).

So, as a Tiefling with the Grenadier's Alchemical Weapon ability and the Explosive Missle Discovery you can first draw the Hybridized Acid Flask/Alchemist's Fire as a Swift action with the Prehensile Tail, infuse the Hybrid A/AF into a Dye Arrow as a move action and then use the Explosive Missle Discovery to infuse your bomb into the same arrow and fire it. This hits touch AC at Longbow range and inflicts 2d6+Intx2+xd6(bomb)+int damage to the target and splashes the bomb's splash damage (but not the hybridzed A/AF's). Furthermore, Explosive Missle discovery does not appear to prevent you from adding one alternate bomb Discovery, so you could tag on a Stink, Frost, Force or Explosive Bomb to that attack.

The reason I don't bring up dye arrows is they're basically the poor version of the tangleshot arrow, which also hits at touch and carries a debuff. If you're looking to save money or facing something huge, they're fine, but auto entangle ON TOP of everything else you're adding is where the money is going.

And if you guys liked this, be sure to check out my original class, The Invoker and let me know what you think.

As for the Alchemy manual, nothing really stood out to me, but I might look through it again, see if there's something to add.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Hey Jolly, wanted your input on my Alchemist, as I'm pretty proud of him, and like to show him off to other people that love Alchemist.
We're currently playing Rise of the Runelords, and I'm playing a sandpoint native that went to school and learned medicine, but came home to a city of "we don't need medicine, we'll just go get healing from the temple) so I'm adventuring to earn money, and protect the town I love.

Dr. Zandu Vioric

Class: Alchemist (Crypt Breaker/Chirugeon) 10
Race: Human
Feats: Cosmopolitan, Skill Focus(Craft: Alchemy), Extra Discovery (2), Craft Wand (we went with James Jacobs giving the okay for it in one of the random dev threads,) Leadership

Discoveries: Precise Bomb, Healing Bomb, Spontaneous Healing, Healing Touch, Fast Bomb, Infusion, and 1 more (we just hit 10, trying to pick a discovery.)

Items of Note: Preserving Flask (1st)(x2)(Need to get some higher level ones, these are holdovers from the end of book 1), Headband of Int +2 (sense motive is linked skill), Lenses of Detection (love the UE update to make the glasses), Ring of Maniacal Devices (I'm the parties trap guy).

I originally was going to be building myself as the party off healer and support damage, but our 5th man, who was playing a Life Oracle bailed, and I had to take over as primary heals.

As I just got it (from chirugeon) I'm planning on utilizing Breath of Life heavily (as it's a 4th level slot) as well as making a wand of it for emergency purposes.

What do you think in general? Any questions/tips/advice/comments?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Oh, forgot to mention, another way I'm delivering emergency heals, other than bombs, is with Touch Injection:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/spells/touchInjection.htm l#_touch-injection

I plan on having one with Breath of Life ready at almost all times.

Silver Crusade

While there's a crapton of stuff from Inner Sea Gods I should look over, the only thing that really matters is Potion Glutton, the most overpowered feat for Alchemist ever. By wording, it should work with extracts, which makes it just...just sick.

Shadow Lodge

Well, it is an Urgathoan feat. I have one question though, I thought drinking potions was a standard action? It says its a move action to drink stuff, which I don't believe extracts can be drunk as, so the feat would not apply.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Furthermore, my gm in that game is a stickler for the "patron Urgathoa" thing, otherwise yeah, I'd probably take it.

Dark Archive

Ninjaxenomorph wrote:
Well, it is an Urgathoan feat. I have one question though, I thought drinking potions was a standard action?

According to the SRD, drinking a potion is a Standard Action. If the rest of the feat text is correct, then an Alchemist with the Accelerated Drinker trait and the Potion Glutton feat becomes a scary prospect indeed. By starting your turn with two potions in hand, you can drink one as a move action via Accelerated Drinker and another as a Swift via Potion Glutton, followed up by imbibing one of your extracts or a mutagen. Add in the Combine Extracts discovery at level 8 and you could be self-buffing with four spells in one round.

Sure, you're using limited resources to pull it off, but a CL 1 Shield potion only costs 25gp to brew. With Enhance Potion a number of potions per day use your CL for effects, Extend Potion can double the duration of your self-buffs, and Dilution lets you make more potions at a fraction of the cost.

Actually, this gives me an idea for a Reach Alchemist build...

Chuggy, Human Alchemist Lvl 1:
Str: 16 (14+2 Racial)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 10

(I realize this is by no means optimized, it's just an example)

AC: 15 (10 + 2 Dex + 3 Studded Leather Armor)

Fort: +4
Refl: +4
Wisd: +1 (Trait Bonus)

Traits: Indomitable Will, Accelerated Drinker
Feats: Potion Glutton (Lvl 1), Combat Reflexes (Human Bonus), Brew Potion (Alchemist Bonus Feat), Throw Anything (Alchemist Bonus Feat)

Spells per Day: 2 level 1 spells, probably Shield and Enlarge Person.
Bomb (3/day): 1d6+2 damage

Longspear +3 (1d8+4)
Light Crossbow +2 (1d8)

Chuggy starts combat with two potions in hand - Shield and Enlarge Person. On his turn he chugs both by using his Swift and Move actions, then draws his Longspear. This effectively gives Chuggy Large size, +3 AC, and +2 damage (Enlarge Person gives a +2 Size bonus to Strength, improving Chuggy's modifier from +3 to +4, and two-handing grants an additional point of damage). During the first turn of combat he can make three attacks of opportunity at a +3 bonus, each one dealing 1d8+6 damage.

On his second turn, Chuggy can drink his Strength mutagen for an additional +2 to hit, +3 to damage, and +2 to AC. If he has need of a potion he may draw it as a move action and imbibe as a swift action, providing multiple options in combat. He could, for instance, drink a True Strike potion and trip an enemy to further control the battlefield.

The true benefit of this build is that it's effective from Level 1 all the way to Level 20, though paying for all those consumables is tough.

Dark Archive

Well, no tougher than trying to play as a Poisoner anyway.


Hi,

I'm trying to come up with potential characters for a new game, and so I was giving this guide another read. In your writeup of master chymist, you cite the only advanced mutations worth the time as being, um, the growth one and the one that ups natural attack damage.

I'll put it out there that it might be worth it to consider the one that doubles mutagen duration. If you're going to miss out on persistent mutagen (hi beastmorph), that can help pick up the slack.

Just a thought.

Red


Redblade8 wrote:

Hi,

I'm trying to come up with potential characters for a new game, and so I was giving this guide another read. In your writeup of master chymist, you cite the only advanced mutations worth the time as being, um, the growth one and the one that ups natural attack damage.

I'll put it out there that it might be worth it to consider the one that doubles mutagen duration. If you're going to miss out on persistent mutagen (hi beastmorph), that can help pick up the slack.

Just a thought.

Red

Eh. By the time you're picking up Master Chymist, your Mutagen lasts for 90 minutes, and you can use it three times per day on one prep - when are you ever in combat for more than 4.5 hours out of an adventuring day?

And if you *are*, you can just make another drinkable mutagen with only an hour of downtime, without needing a full rest, so, for example, get mixing while your party members sort through loot.

And if you STILL need more Mutagen coverage, you're better off not giving up the extra level of Extract progression, and just burning an ordinary Alchemist Discovery/Feat on Infuse Mutagen.

I mean, sure, doubled duration is nice in theory, but by the time you get there, it's really clearly unneccesary.


Joseph Davis wrote:
Furthermore, my gm in that game is a stickler for the "patron Urgathoa" thing, otherwise yeah, I'd probably take it.

A True Neutral Alchemist who's only concern is not dying and sees Urgathoa as a decent example of how to get that done (but doesn't approve of her more wicked tendencies and thinks malicious undead are a no-go) is a totally valid character that could work in a Good aligned party.

Silver Crusade

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Joseph Davis wrote:

Hey Jolly, wanted your input on my Alchemist, as I'm pretty proud of him, and like to show him off to other people that love Alchemist.

We're currently playing Rise of the Runelords, and I'm playing a sandpoint native that went to school and learned medicine, but came home to a city of "we don't need medicine, we'll just go get healing from the temple) so I'm adventuring to earn money, and protect the town I love.

Dr. Zandu Vioric

Class: Alchemist (Crypt Breaker/Chirugeon) 10
Race: Human
Feats: Cosmopolitan, Skill Focus(Craft: Alchemy), Extra Discovery (2), Craft Wand (we went with James Jacobs giving the okay for it in one of the random dev threads,) Leadership

Discoveries: Precise Bomb, Healing Bomb, Spontaneous Healing, Healing Touch, Fast Bomb, Infusion, and 1 more (we just hit 10, trying to pick a discovery.)

Items of Note: Preserving Flask (1st)(x2)(Need to get some higher level ones, these are holdovers from the end of book 1), Headband of Int +2 (sense motive is linked skill), Lenses of Detection (love the UE update to make the glasses), Ring of Maniacal Devices (I'm the parties trap guy).

I originally was going to be building myself as the party off healer and support damage, but our 5th man, who was playing a Life Oracle bailed, and I had to take over as primary heals.

As I just got it (from chirugeon) I'm planning on utilizing Breath of Life heavily (as it's a 4th level slot) as well as making a wand of it for emergency purposes.

What do you think in general? Any questions/tips/advice/comments?

Jeez, sorry I never got back to this. I've been making my own Homebrew/3PP stuff.

Cryptbreaker/Chirugeon is one interesting mix, I'm actually interest to know how this works out.

This build is pretty unique to the point where it's hard to give commentary, although I haven't played since healing bomb was made, so it's difficult for me to comment on that too.

Is Cosmopolitan working out for you? I'd honestly drop it for Additional Traits: Student of Philosophy and Extremely Fashionable, really buff those skill rolls. Is the only thing you're doing with Craft Wand making CLW wands? If so, and you're in a situation where you can stock up on them, I'd retrain it and just buy the CLW, but I haven't played ROTRL, so I can't comment there.

Tumor Familiar is NEVER a bad choice, and could help you stretch your buffing ability, although share spells for it is still murky sadly.

Silver Crusade

Just added the (very few) Alchemist extracts from Inner Sea Gods, Channel Vigor really wins out there, a few feats (Mostly Potion Glutton), no traits, and might look over the magic items. Nothing really special on the Barbarian side of things, so that guide isn't being updated for this.

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