I have a misunderstanding between the core rule book and my GM.
According to my GM, when a wizard prepares his 3 cantrips (at lvl 1) he selects three of the cantrips in his spell book to cast that day. But he can only cast Any of them 3 times, and then he can't cast anymore cantrips that day.
But what players outside my playgroup, and what it seems the book is saying is that the wizard chooses 3 cantrips of the ones in his spell book and he may cast those 3 as much as he wants until he prepares his spells the next day (or the GM cuts him off).
Which is it? and how do I prove it to my GM?
Wizard cantrips have a limit to how many can be prepared, but they can be cast an infinite number of times per day.
As to how you can prove it, I would suggest having him read the Cantrips ability, since he apparently hasn't:
"Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wizard under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A wizard can prepare a cantrip from an opposition school, but it uses up two of his available slots (see below)."(emphasis mine)
It is that he can cast them as many times as he wishes.
Cantrips
Edit: MP you ninja'd me!
mplindustries wrote: Wizard cantrips have a limit to how many can be prepared, but they can be cast an infinite number of times per day.
As to how you can prove it, I would suggest having him read the Cantrips ability, since he apparently hasn't:
"Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wizard under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A wizard can prepare a cantrip from an opposition school, but it uses up two of his available slots (see below)."(emphasis mine)
I don't think it's because he didn't read it, I think it was the spells per day chart compared to the sorcerer chart that threw him off (it doesn't have any 0 lvl spells listed).
It also states that a sorcerers cantrips do not consume any spell slots.
Cantrips are listed on the 'Spells Known chart' for Sorcerers. They don't bother to list cantrips in the 'Spells per Day' chart because as long as they know the cantrip they can cast it as many times a day as they want.
The oddest thing I find about Cantrips is how Wizards can only prepare 4 and Sorcerers can know 9. Bit weird, that, more so than in 3.5 since Cantrips are unlimited.
Drachasor wrote: The oddest thing I find about Cantrips is how Wizards can only prepare 4 and Sorcerers can know 9. Bit weird, that, more so than in 3.5 since Cantrips are unlimited. If you are talking about level 20, I don't find that weird...wizard's can know every cantrip in the game by that point, plus you can get really cheap magic items to allow anyone to use any cantrip at any time. I guess they just didn't think much about cantrips at level 20...
137ben wrote: Drachasor wrote: The oddest thing I find about Cantrips is how Wizards can only prepare 4 and Sorcerers can know 9. Bit weird, that, more so than in 3.5 since Cantrips are unlimited. If you are talking about level 20, I don't find that weird...wizard's can know every cantrip in the game by that point, plus you can get really cheap magic items to allow anyone to use any cantrip at any time. I guess they just didn't think much about cantrips at level 20... Level 2 is where the Wizard maxes is Cantrips Prepared and 10 is where the Sorcerer maxes her Cantrips known. So not 20.
The 9 known verses 4 prepared is an unusual disparity compared to the other spell levels.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
I would guess it has to do with Wizard flexibility vs Sorcerer flexibility.
The Sorcerer will only ever know those 9 particular cantrips, and learn no others. Those 9 are it for his entire career.
The Wizard will have 4 a day to use, but can change which cantrips he has every day (or every time he memorized new spells).
So while not having a daily spread as large as the Sorcerer, the Wizard has more flexibility to choose which cantrips he might need.
A human Sorcerer taking the extra spell favoured class option will end up with 11 (or more) at 10th level. Regardless, -
Natural magic. A Sorcerer doesn't think about it, he just casually uses magic all the time, like you or I might boil water for coffee or smoke a cigarette.
Unlike a wizard, they don't wake up in the morning prepared to think and learn. They wake up - *ping*, Mage Hand, hit the alarm clock. *Ping*, Light. *Ping*, Drench, to have a morning wash. *Ping*, Prestidigitation, make the lazy breakfast taste better.
A Wizard has to sit about thinking of his optimal spell uses, consideration of unusual choices, finding obscure spellbooks - all before breakfast. Also consider that Sorcerers normally have Eschew Materials for even less thinking and planning needed.
Try clarifying it this way:
Anybody who has access to cantrips can cast cantrips all day long.
Sorcerers only know a few; wizards know the whole list, but each day they have to select a short list of the ones they'll be using that day.
End result: the lists wind up about the same length, and both Wizzie and Sorcey can cast 'em all day long until the rest of the party tells them to knock it off.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Captain K. wrote: A human Sorcerer taking the extra spell favoured class option will end up with 11 (or more) at 10th level. Regardless, -
Natural magic. A Sorcerer doesn't think about it, he just casually uses magic all the time, like you or I might boil water for coffee or smoke a cigarette.
Unlike a wizard, they don't wake up in the morning prepared to think and learn. They wake up - *ping*, Mage Hand, hit the alarm clock. *Ping*, Light. *Ping*, Drench, to have a morning wash. *Ping*, Prestidigitation, make the lazy breakfast taste better.
A Wizard has to sit about thinking of his optimal spell uses, consideration of unusual choices, finding obscure spellbooks - all before breakfast. Also consider that Sorcerers normally have Eschew Materials for even less thinking and planning needed.
Less Thinking, Less Planning, Less Possibilities. It works out.
All I was trying to say is that that ratio of spells known by the Sorcerer verses Wizard Spells prepare for all spell levels is fairly similar as time goes on...except cantrips, where it is much more in favor of the sorcerer. I just found this odd. That is all.
Mnemonic Enhancer? A Wizard casting that from a 4th-level slot can prepare 6 additional cantrips.
Granted, using a 4th-level slot in that way probably isn't the most effective use of your available resources. But if you're just planning to hang around your fancy wizard tower all day, you could burn a few 4th-level slots and prepare EVERY cantrip you know. ;)
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