Should a synthesist summoner's eidolon have it's own feats?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


A player in my group (i'm not the DM) is making a synthesist summoner and wants it to have it's own feats.

His reasoning is that :

1.A synthesist summoner loses out on action economy compared to a regular summoner

2.It doesn't make sense for his character to take improved natural attack and have it apply to the Eidolon's natural attacks

Thoughts on this?

Chat log if anyone is interested

[7:04:29 PM] Me: a synthesist eidlon is essentially the summoner. you dont get additional skills or feats because you are for most intents and purposes, one being

[7:05:42 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: Im building to a theme, not the poorly thought out summoner mechanics

[7:06:17 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: Technically, the eidolon is supposed to be a transcent glob in some vague shape

[7:07:44 PM] Me: a synthesist summoner is powerful enough already that it doesnt need two sets of feats.

[7:08:04 PM] Me: how would it stop you from making a theme if you use your own feats for improved natural attack?

[7:10:11 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: synthesist loosing out on action economy is part of my mechanical thought process. How does making my character's hands bigger (I guess?) translate to the eidolon, which my character is piloting

[7:18:51 PM] Me: this is probably the first time ive heard the
synthesist referred to as losing out based on action economy

[7:19:07 PM] Me: its got the same actions as anyone who doesnt have a animal companion, like the cleric or wizard

[7:19:25 PM] Me: you wouldnt apply improved natural attack to your bare hands, but your eidolon's attack anyway

[7:21:09 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: Im referring to the base summoner. Also, Improved natural attack feat applies to only one kind of natural attack. I could apply it to my bare fists, but bare fists don't translate into claw attacks.

[7:21:44 PM] Me: you arent supposed to apply it to your bare fists, but your eidolon attack i mean

[7:22:26 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: Again, a feat on my guy just doesn't make sence, thematicly, to apply it to my eidolon. I want it to make sence

[7:22:57 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: To me, Theme=Win

[7:23:23 PM] Me: i think this is just a difference of opinion. if you and your eidolon are the same fused being i dont see why your feat wouldnt apply to it

[7:23:36 PM] Me: when you take improved initiative your eidolon also acts faster

[7:23:42 PM] Me: even though you are the one with the feat

[7:23:47 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: Hes not the same thing, hes "Not Iron Man"

[7:24:09 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: Anway, pro scub, anti scub, we'll leave it up to the DM

[7:24:15 PM] Synthesist Summoner player: Heh, Stark

[7:24:57 PM] Me: but by the rules you are iron man


1. True, but Synthesist has it's own mechanical perks like being able to dump Strength and Dex into the ground plus getting both his and it's HP on one character.

2. RAW I don't think he wouldn't even qualify for the Improved Natural Attack feat as he doesn't have the natural attack. The Improved Damage evo is what he would need... if he wants to spend a feat on it I'd say tell him to take the feat for extra evolution points and then spend it on that.

I wouldn't give him the eidolon's feats.


By RAW they don't, a synthesist's eidolon explicitly has no feats or skills.

Given that you can put ranks in Fly when you can fly regularly (even with a spell for just a few minutes each day), I'd say you can grab feats that only work when your have your Eidolon on.

Note:

Prerequisites wrote:

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.

A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.

This certainly implies you can grab feats for things you don't have all the time. I don't see any reason to prevent a player from grabbing a feat like this.

Contributor

Do not do this under any circumstances. Just telling you from experience, from a game table that included two Paizo designers making sure a synthesist was done to the letter. Your PC has quite enough tools with this class and archetype as it is, and he doesn't need the help, theme or no theme.


bump/

Liberty's Edge

^^ What they said. Playing one in an AP. Started at 6th and now 13. havnt used the eidlon in like 2 levels cause frankly got bored of its power.


What do you use?

Sovereign Court

Playing a synthesist right now. If we weren't doing Slumbering Tsar I would almost feel bad about how BA this character is. It needs no more help.

Liberty's Edge

Do lots of summoning and spell support. problem with synth is you get lots of add on's on top of your race stuff. 5th level was flying all day. 8th large and ripping things apart. 10 could fly the whole party around with perm resists, high AC and lots of HP. This dosnt even take in that you still get some of the best spell at the same time a wizard does, or sooner(haste). 12 dropped enlarge and looked undead for immunities on top of resists. You get alot of bang for this arch type, so asking to add on to it so can get more feats, I find outrageous. Amazing.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just what a Synthesist really needs. a powerup for class that's really hurting right now.

/sarcasm mode off.

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