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And to address the worthwhile items thing:
What is considered worthwhile and what isn't?
Consider:
NPC needs more AC, more to hit, more savings throws and some healing.
So giving them a +1 NA, Protection, Resistance and CLW potion is pretty standard fair.
Especially at lower levels, you give them all this, and your budget for equipping the badguys becomes maybe one or two small cost items that are unique to the badguy's story in question.
So if you want some cool item, like boots of the cat or belt of the weasel you gotta get rid of one of the above items (NA, Deflection, Resistance?)
And even those items can just be bought anyways...
And I don't think we should expect unique and new items created just for the scenarios. That requires some major development time that isn't just about developing a scenario. Now you are talking about game mechanics for item creation, which as we see in RPG Superstar, is not an easy thing to do, at all.
That's I'm not proposing anything complicated, just a little something to make having common items on the chronicle sheet.
And for the record, the potions rarely seem to help NPCs unless the authors start giving them haversacks because they just get mulched trying to dig out the potion.
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Like this Mr. Baird - very nice.
One minor change ... is it possible to reduce the PP spent box so it is only under the PP points, and not under both the PP and Fame? I have seen some "younger" players subtract the PP from both...thinking it is like the earned box that adds to both. This is a very MINOR thing, so if it's hard to do...
Like this?
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heck, I'd like to see this as a thing I could just print off and tape to the back (or front) of the existing Chronicles - I know my wife would love to have it to add to them.A lot of the other suggestions are nice but this is one that I've wanted for a long time. After you've played so many it becomes hard to remember the details of some of them and I hardly ever remember key NPC names unless I make a note of them on the chronicle sheet afterwards. A brief blurb to jog your memory and give you the names of the NPCs would be great.Feature to add:
I would like to see a brief synopsis of the adventure. All of us who used to play Living Greyhawk (LG) remember how some of those were done. I still have all of my AR's from LG. When I go back and look at them, those bits of information trigger my memories of the adventure. Sadly, I don't remember half of what happened in my PFS games, unless I ran them. It could be as simple as just reprinting the Introduction blurb or can be more creative to include the end result of the mission.
Hmm... that could be something that I start printing on the back of existing chronicles. A quick recap of the adventure, the VC that sent them on their mission, key NPCs encountered, maybe even include the author's name...
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Warnings, #4-22 Spoiler alert!
Taking a stab at it here, incorporating some feedback from this thread.
Changelog:
- Removed any item under 3,000 gp (for a assumed 5th level Pathfinder getting at least 1 fame per level).
- Changed Scenario Chronicle # to Character Chronicle #
- Added a GM Notes section.
- Made Item/Purchases and consumables used area more general and unlined.
- Added Career Gold Total box.
- Made Event space bigger than Event Code.
- Added website blurb for scenario.
- Fixed the subtier 5-6 typo that is normally on this chronicle.
Like this Mr. Baird - very nice.
One minor change ... is it possible to reduce the PP spent box so it is only under the PP points, and not under both the PP and Fame? I have seen some "younger" players subtract the PP from both...thinking it is like the earned box that adds to both. This is a very MINOR thing, so if it's hard to do...
I agree...I have seen players get confused as well :)
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StuffCan you do us all a favor and come up with some ideas to improve the chronicle sheet? Looking back through this thread, the only comments you've made are arguments against other people's suggestions.
I did. I suggested a level 0 chronicle sheet.
And I made suggestions to improve your latest attempt.
Overall I like the changes you've made though.
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Not a fan of the website blurb on the revised chronicle sheet. It seems like a waste of space and can be used more effectively for the issues of special items and boons.It's a good thing no one every listens to your Joe.
Hey, everything else looks great, I like those changes. That one change just seems unnecessary.
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i get the idea of removing the lines from the inventory management section... but bad handwriting gets so much worse without them. I would suggest putting lines back in with slightly more space.
I like the latest layout you made - and think it is important to leave the prices on the items.
nice work.
+1 on starter chronicle
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Kyle, if you don't want to do lines to any of the boxes, that's fine (although I personally think its kinda cool looking)...
But perhaps at the bottom of the Inventory Management Box you could have 3 small boxes
Costs, Gains, and PP Spent
So that all the accounting in the blank box can have 3 specific places to put the totals before transferring it to the boxes on the right side.
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A way to condense the sheet to make room for stuff is make the items possible for use in smaller boxes. There is no reason for +2 Full Plate should take up the whole row on the page. I know some items are more descriptive, wands with partial charges and such, but you can use two lines to finish off the description.
Special unique items and boons should be on the top in their own space and get the whole line as they do need to be described.
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Nice Kyle,
This is minor, but I would like more space in the character name and less in the number (especially with the 'spacespace - spacespace'). The faction could also be shrunk if people abbreviate their faction, but I have been 50/50 abbreviating so I dinnae know if it is common.
I had actually gotten rid of player name at one point (# is there, why do we need name?). But when I was nearing the end I said screw it and put it back to standard. I agree, character name should be longer. Player name and number should be shorter.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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The career gold box being a GM filled in box makes the GM have to look at the character's previous chronicle. I know this will take a little more time, but it will make sure everyone has their latest chronicle up to date.
I like the concept, but this will be hard to maintain unless chronicles from previous scenarios are updated to include this as well. I already wish old chronicles were updated to include the boxes for fame and day job rolls already.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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I'd like to see a bigger blank for Faction to be written in. Then again, I won't be writing Lantern Lodge down any more... Silver Crusade is still a problem though.
Add another vote for keeping lines in the inventory section.
I don't see a need for career gold, but ok.
Having a blurb where you put it is fine, but have it be a past-tense synopsis, not an adventure hook.
I really like the idea of "monsters encountered" to be in there somewhere.
About boons: Currently, there's a checkbox next to them. But GM's are instructed to cross out boons that weren't granted, so the box is a bit confusing. Does the GM check it when the boon is granted? (Superfluous with the crossing out) Does the next GM check it when the boon is used? (what about continuous boons?)
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I like this, except I think it takes away if you remove the seperation between items bought and items sold. Especially for us GM's who mainly run PbP games and use form fillable PDFs for easier use on the GM and the player. Like this updated Season 0 Chronicle I built: Link
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Like this?Like this Mr. Baird - very nice.
One minor change ... is it possible to reduce the PP spent box so it is only under the PP points, and not under both the PP and Fame? I have seen some "younger" players subtract the PP from both...thinking it is like the earned box that adds to both. This is a very MINOR thing, so if it's hard to do...
yeah! thanks! Perfict!
I wish my developers at work were this fast!
I have made the minus fame mistake several times and I wouldn't consider myself new. Many times I am just trying to do a quick tally fame and/or prestige for several chronicles at once just before a game to see if I can buy something and get sloppy during the haste. I have caught it several times, but if I were to check all the sheets for both my wife and I, I would really be surprised if I didn't miss at least one.
Overall I really like the changes on this sheet, but I am on the fence about completely removing the lines from the bought area. I agree they were too small before, but with handwriting becoming an obsolete skill (at least for me) I can see that area getting sloppy.
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It's possible to acquire zero fame throughout your career. You have to really work at it, but it's possible.Not really, you are bound to adventure with someone from the same faction and they do the task required. Also newer/oldest adventures give one PP for completing the main mission.
I know a Level 8 Barbarian with 7 fame - he roleplayed the illiterate barbarian, and his superiors kept giving him letters.... any scenario that the orders were relayed verbally, he finished, but he was the only one of his faction in the home group he played in.
Also: should there be a 'main mission completed' checkbox?
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I like this, except I think it takes away if you remove the seperation between items bought and items sold. Especially for us GM's who mainly run PbP games and use form fillable PDFs for easier use on the GM and the player. Like this updated Season 0 Chronicle I built: Link
That is EXACTLY how they should form the Chronicle I would still like more space available for notes though. . . I love fillable PDFs, especially since there is so much PFS on the PbP boards. Just makes more sense to me. You can always print them for Cons and the like, and they will show up blank, or as filled out as you want pre game (all GM info in place, etc.)
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Personally I'd like to see more varied types of 'ammo' lots.
I mean you got ONE firearm related ANYTHING in all the chronicle sheets out there.. and let's be honest.. a MW Firearm at that level is pretty moot.
And by Ammo I mean.. ALL types. Yes, I am a gunslinger nut, but I also have an archer and been toying with a slinger and crossbowman.
I'd like to see some more diverse ammo types out there.
-Like some actual bullets (cause buying lots of 50 makes it hard to justify getting any magical ammo when you're already squeezed for money as a gunslinger)
-More arrows. LOTS more arrows. I know lots of archers who go wild when they see things like '+1 Human Bane Arrows, max 5'. They tend to go through them fast though.
-Sling Bullets/bolts
Also, though I haven't heard as MUCH from the poisoners, they would like a few more of the exotic types. I know one alchemist who wants more 'knock out' poisons particularly.
My only exposure thus far with Chronicle sheets has been with my own gaming group at home for the first steps, and two events at PiazoCon 2013. I've read a lot of what others with more experience have suggested and I see the Chronicle sheets as trying to fill too many roles simultaneously. What is the general feeling of eliminating the Inventory Management of (specifically) buying/selling from the chronicle sheet all together and migrating it to a larger single sheet - Character Inventory History.
My thoughts would be to still have a tie back to a chronicle sheet and still require GM signature on it for each item. This also eliminates the need to "provide" for a second sheet from the GM/Coordinator perspective since it would be the perview of the player, and increase the speed of GM Audit since you are looking at fewer sheet(s) with similar relevant information. Something looking along the lines of:
[ Player Name ] AKA [ Character Name ] [ PFS# ] [ Faction ] [ Inventory Sheet#]
[ Event# {or Chronicle#?} ] _____ [ Date ] _____ [ Item ] _____ [ Cost +/- ] _____ [ GM Initial ]
With lines under each column of a normal human handwriting size to fill in. This can also go along the lines as others have mentioned as a First chronicles sheet with what was purchased with the initial 150gp.
(NOTE) Ignore the lines between the columns I couldn't think of a better way to get visual spacers
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Made Item/Purchases and consumables used area more general and unlined.[
I don't know about anyone else, buy my handwriting without lines will not make a legible list out of sales and purchases.
I'm not a fan of the "total gold earned" box, either. LG tried that with the ARs when they first came out and it was double-entry bookkeeping to keep up with current gold, equipment value, and total character wealth. That was *not* fun. The method we have on Chronicles today (single-entry bookkeeping) was what came out in LG after they realized how annoying and error-prone the other method was for players.
If I wanted to do that, I'd be an accountant... or just put it all in a spreadsheet (which I've done in the past).
Zantumal, That's not far off from what LG had. In addition to the ARs, each character had an inventory sheet (and you could replace them when they ran out of fields to fill out as you burned through consumables, but you had to keep your old ones) that showed when you bought an item and sold it, used it, or it was destroyed. They also had magic item creation sheets that were used to track time and gold spent on crafting magic items. In essence, every character had up to 3 sheets for every adventure. It worked, but if you're not careful the tracking can get in the way of the game.
I'm sorry I don't have anything positive to add to the discussion in terms of suggestions, but I felt strongly enough on these two issues to put in my $.02.
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Excellent idea on improving something we all use every game. Any way to improve the game is worth working on.
Negative feedback is important in any brain stromign process. It elimates group think. Critizing people for proving feedback you do not appreciate it dangerous. You are removing a vital part of the debate side that prevents group think. Negative feedback avoids issues and trap certain ideas may have and allows people to brainstorm solutions to the problems their suggestion may cause.
I would love to see creautes/NPCs encountered. This allows PCs to say hey I encountered X before they are weak/strong VS Y. Also this is a great way to show how certain NPCs react towards PC. Just like the blackros wedding. This cna be smaller ofcourse and heck many times the items fill half the slot where they are so these can be off to the side.
The problem I found with the ofrm fillable sheets was that buying with prestige presents an issue and would need to be done manually. Personally if it all digital awesome. If it requires both I would rather not waste the effort.
Thank you psoting links of your suggestions. That honestly helps me more than your descripitions because I am a dumb visual type of guy. It was helpful for me in thinking of things to add, or what is not quite perfect about what is added.
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Like this?Like this Mr. Baird - very nice.
One minor change ... is it possible to reduce the PP spent box so it is only under the PP points, and not under both the PP and Fame? I have seen some "younger" players subtract the PP from both...thinking it is like the earned box that adds to both. This is a very MINOR thing, so if it's hard to do...
Looks good Kyle although I would also put the lines back spaced apart a little more. I know its not the best option but its gives folks a little guidance on where to write and how big it should be. Just a few lines it doesn't need to be the whole box.
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Zantumal, That's not far off from what LG had. In addition to the ARs, each character had an inventory sheet (and you could replace them when they ran out of fields to fill out as you burned through consumables, but you had to keep your old ones) that showed when you bought an item and sold it, used it, or it was destroyed. They also had magic item creation sheets that were used to track time and gold spent on crafting magic items. In essence, every character had up to 3 sheets for every adventure. It worked, but if you're not careful the tracking can get in the way of the game.
I'm sorry I don't know what LG and ARs stand for. Pretend like you're talking to someone who just walked off the street and started playing Pathfinder Society yesterday.
Just so I'm clear on my suggestion - the sheet would function like a log sheet to be filled over the span of multiple sessions, not one sheet per session, and the number of them would be variable upon how much purchasing the character did.
I also find it interesting that a large percentage of players use tablets at the table (which is cool for ease of play) but there is no way to verify stats, languages, skills ect that *could* shift over time from an unscrupulous player because there is no documented official character sheet required at the table and hence my idea for documented history of equipment separated from the chronicle sheet.
Something which looks like so: PICTURE
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Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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Suggestion: With the advent of The Blakros Matrimony, we have seen that favor with an NPC can carry over from one scenario to another. It might be nice for chronicles to feature a list of major NPCs, with an area for GM notes regarding the PC's interactions with said NPCs. For example, the chronicles from the first 4 Blakros scenarios could feature a box for Nigel Aldain, noting whether or not he was impressed, and whether or not there were any particular quirks that came up in the discussion. This would allow PCs to build long-lasting ties with NPCs, and could be combined with an influence mechanic. GMs could assign +1 or -1 influence based on the events of a scenario? Just a thought.
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Don't know if was addressed or not but here's my big one.
It's abundantly obvious that the form was not developed by somebody with a math background. On the current sheet, Fame and Prestige are in the wrong order.
If I've earned 10 fame total in my life, and spent four of it (leaving me with 6 prestige), I don't write 10/6, I write 6/10. Please, for the love of Pete express it as the fraction it is.
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Don't know if was addressed or not but here's my big one.
It's abundantly obvious that the form was not developed by somebody with a math background. On the current sheet, Fame and Prestige are in the wrong order.
If I've earned 10 fame total in my life, and spent four of it (leaving me with 6 prestige), I don't write 10/6, I write 6/10. Please, for the love of Pete express it as the fraction it is.
I completely agree with this request.
I'm sorry I don't know what LG and ARs stand for. Pretend like you're talking to someone who just walked off the street and started playing Pathfinder Society yesterday.
LG is Living Greyhawk, a previous organized campaign. AR is Adventure Record, Living Greyhawk's equvalent of PFS's Chronicle Sheets.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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Couldn't hurt, but I just handwrite in GM above the (now) Character Chronicle #.What about a checkbox indicating GM credit?
I know it can be deduced by looking at the character number and gm number, but it might be nice to have a specific box.
Me too! I write it just to the right of the chronicle number.
As I stated up at the top of this thread, they changed the look of the chronicle a bit for Siege of the Diamond City.
Here is a link to my chronicle. I have redacted the Items Found box to avoid spoilers. Check out the large "Notes" Section at the bottom. Notice anything missing? Perhaps this will be the new standard for Season 5?
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I have my doubts as to the viability of this idea, but having something like a "monsters encountered" section. It gets a bit ridiculous when a gm makes you roll knowledge: religion on the 28th time you've encountered ghouls.
My goblin has space on his character sheet where his herald writes down every creature he has bitten.
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I have my doubts as to the viability of this idea, but having something like a "monsters encountered" section. It gets a bit ridiculous when a gm makes you roll knowledge: religion on the 28th time you've encountered ghouls.My goblin has space on his character sheet where his herald writes down every creature he has bitten.
Your...your goblin has a herald? That's fantastic.
Actually, my sin eater has a similar list of alp the creatures who she's gotten the killing blow on and whose souls she's marked for the Black Daimyo to claim. Shes's got two "gods" on the list among a few dozen others, and going strong.
Still, I think it would be a headache to institute it for chronicles and to expect the GM to check what everyone's seen before.
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Rather than a synopsis, just put at the very top under the scenario name something like 'A Pathfinder Society scenario set in The Worldwound' or something like that. Much like the old LG ARs.
+1 for this
Even just getting the primary location of the adventure in the title area would do wonders for helping us remember what happened.
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I have my doubts as to the viability of this idea, but having something like a "monsters encountered" section. It gets a bit ridiculous when a gm makes you roll knowledge: religion on the 28th time you've encountered ghouls.My goblin has space on his character sheet where his herald writes down every creature he has bitten.Your...your goblin has a herald? That's fantastic.
Actually, my sin eater has a similar list of alp the creatures who she's gotten the killing blow on and whose souls she's marked for the Black Daimyo to claim. Shes's got two "gods" on the list among a few dozen others, and going strong.
Still, I think it would be a headache to institute it for chronicles and to expect the GM to check what everyone's seen before.
My goblin's first (very hard fought) Prestige was spent on a porter and a herald. He also wears a royal outfit, fwiw. ;-)
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Give me the option to store my registered adventures digitally along with the profile on paizo. Basically once my mission is logged online that sheet is added digitally to the characters profile along with my day job, prestige, and xp which would now be something the gm logs along side the other notes he inputs. The other option is to implement a random roller built into the sheet so you can roll your day job on your registered sheet rather then at the table. This could help cut down on carrying 10-30 chronicle sheets and allow us to both keep a digital back up of all our progress and allow us to legally print a copy of a chronicle sheet should we lose them for whatever reason.