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Checking over sheets at the table is a fair call and we all neglect to do it and need a healthy reminder like this one to get back into the habit.
I'm an experienced player and even I make mistakes occasionally (even critical ones). By all means, have a look. I know it's not personal and that we're not just being all cynical-like.
Keeping up to date with chronicle sheets is my biggest issue, but even with my gold, I'll always make sure I've underspent rather than overspent. It's a good incentive to make sure I'm up to date.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Two issues with the chonicle sheets I have.
1) small lines. My handwriting sucks. It's much better for me to write it down in the journal section of Hero Lab For example:
Frozen Fingers of Midnight.
Bought: Wand of Endure Elements (750 GP)
Used: 4 charges from CLW wand, 2 charges from wand of endure elements (silly peseants, worried about the cold)
2) Never quite sure how to record GM credit. My blob of bardoplasm for example will likely be 5th level before I play her. Do I write all her starting equipment on one sheet? For that matter, do I put all my equipment on a level one sheet for a new character?
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For my GM credit babies, who are usually still level 1 or 2 when I play them for the first time, with 2-3 xp, I just write out their starting purchases on notebook paper and put "Starting equipment - see attached" on the chronicle sheet. Anyone going through my chronicles will see the sheet of notebook paper next to the last GM credit sheet before I actually built and equipped the PC.
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I've never written starting equipment on a chronicle sheet... are we supposed to do that? After all, the first the a character is played, it doesn't have a chronicle sheet, but it can have 150gp of gear.
I figured starting equipment didn't need to go on the sheet. Truthfully, after a couple of scenarios, that 150gp of gear starts to be in the noise.
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1) small lines. My handwriting sucks. It's much better for me to write it down in the journal section of Hero Lab For example:
Frozen Fingers of Midnight.
Bought: Wand of Endure Elements (750 GP)
Used: 4 charges from CLW wand, 2 charges from wand of endure elements (silly peseants, worried about the cold)
Yeah, I've run into this trouble. What I've done is to spell out all my purchases on the back of my chronicle sheets from now on and write "On Back" in the items bought section. Makes it much easier to read my handwriting, especially at high levels when I buy all the partially charged wands!
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Actually, my biggest issue with filling out chronicles for my own character is that there's really no place to list what you spent your prestige on. There's a spot to show how much prestige you spent, but items and stuff acquired at the bottom seem to just be for gold costs. So when I spend prestige, I usually just put a note next to it saying what it's for.
Actually, my biggest issue with filling out chronicles for my own character is that there's really no place to list what you spent your prestige on. There's a spot to show how much prestige you spent, but items and stuff acquired at the bottom seem to just be for gold costs. So when I spend prestige, I usually just put a note next to it saying what it's for.
I've always just put Prestige purchases (for items) under "Items bought" and have put "2 PP" (or however many PP I spend) next to the item. And of course put however many PP you spend in the appropriate box to the right.
Any GM looking over the chronicle sheet will know what is meant, as I know you would as well as a GM.
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Friends dont let friends use Hero Lab.Agreed. Herolab gets used as a crutch too often. I usually oversimplify this statement and say, "Herolab makes people stupid."I would agree with that. Every now and then I make a character by hand and I end up having to go and look stuff up that I should know. How many points is a 17 worth? How many spells do I get? No clue....wheres my Herolab!
That being said Herolab makes less mistakes than I do. In fact I have yet to catch one that wasn't my fault (usually a check box somewhere) in the last year.
This. A poor craftsman blames his/her tools. I use HL for all of my PCs, but I also do my progressions longhand and frequently check the math.
I've always just put Prestige purchases (for items) under "Items bought" and have put "2 PP" (or however many PP I spend) next to the item. And of course put however many PP you spend in the appropriate box to the right.
Any GM looking over the chronicle sheet will know what is meant, as I know you would as well as a GM.
That's where I put mine too.
The biggest issue I have with audits is time. I would like to be able to do them each time I sit down to GM, but time constraints make that hard, especially for someone whose tables tend to run long as mine often do. (Any suggestions on speeding that up and providing an avenue for audits are certainly welcome as far as I'm concerned.)
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So...I was thinking of playing at a con, but all of my previous experience has been online, and my recordkeeping isn't all that great (we often do purchases in between scenarios and not right after for various reasons). Is there a way to fix this, or should I just make a new level one character or a pregen. I don't wanna spend time and money going to a con just to be told I can't use any of my characters due to an accounting error.
By the way, for the "backup books", does that mean I have to print out every single PDF I own? I thought I could just show the ones I have stored on my tablet (where I typically keep my character sheets and all relevant materials anyway), but if I have to print every one of them out for backup...
If you buy them "between" scenarios, the purchases should be written on the following chronicle. Go through your character sheet and make sure every purchase and transaction is noted on a chronicle sheet.
Showing the pdf on a tablet is fine. The point is to have a legal resource ready in case there is a question that needs to be answered by that resource.
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So...I was thinking of playing at a con, but all of my previous experience has been online, and my recordkeeping isn't all that great (we often do purchases in between scenarios and not right after for various reasons). Is there a way to fix this, or should I just make a new level one character or a pregen. I don't wanna spend time and money going to a con just to be told I can't use any of my characters due to an accounting error.
By the way, for the "backup books", does that mean I have to print out every single PDF I own? I thought I could just show the ones I have stored on my tablet (where I typically keep my character sheets and all relevant materials anyway), but if I have to print every one of them out for backup...
If you buy them "between" scenarios, the purchases should be written on the following chronicle. Go through your character sheet and make sure every purchase and transaction is noted on a chronicle sheet.
Showing the pdf on a tablet is fine. The point is to have a legal resource ready in case there is a question that needs to be answered by that resource.
Yep. Also, a printout of the relevant page(s) from a watermarked .pdf with your name is fine.
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The biggest issue I have with audits is time. I would like to be able to do them each time I sit down to GM, but time constraints make that hard, especially for someone whose tables tend to run long as mine often do. (Any suggestions on speeding that up and providing an avenue for audits are certainly welcome as far as I'm concerned.)
There's a few recommendations.
First, it's OK to realize you cannot possibly review everyone's sheet completely in most settings. Spot checks are your friends. I set myself a strict 15 minute review time limit. If I don't get to check everyone's sheet, oh well.
Second, especially at higher level of play, understand you won't catch every error on each look over at the sheets.
What I do, is spot check. Pick 3 things to check on the sheets, and do so on as many character sheets as the time allows. It may be attack calculations, HPs and feats. Anything that you see on the sheets that you don't understand, or know, ask the player about. See a feat you don't recognize? That's the one to ask for additional resources and the page showing the feat. Have the player look that up while you look over the next sheet. This not only proves to you that the feat is legal, but gives you the chance to learn a new feat you were not previously familiar with.
Next week, pick 3 different things, such as gold levels, armor equipped and highest level spells. Use the same approach as above. If possible/appropriate, start with the players you skipped the week before.
The golden rule is Do what you can. Anything is a HUGE improvement over nothing. When players know GMs are checking, they are more likely to review their own sheets more regularly, since they now know there's a chance that they may get called on if there's a mistake... again, this is very similar to how MOST of us are super careful about our taxes even though they are very rarely audited. The chance of an audit in and of itself leads people to be more careful.
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I tried something new this week, using many of the suggestions here:
Before the game, while I was still setting up, I handed each of the players a notecard. I asked them to put the following on the card:
- Character name
- PFS # (as a backup for my signup sheet)
- AC breakdown (all bonuses and total, including any planned buffs like Mage Armor)
- Highest Attack Breakdown (all bonuses and total--in this case, one of the players was a maneuver master, so she instead gave her CMB) or
- Highest Spell DC Breakdown (all bonuses and total)
- Highest Skill Check Bonus Breakdown (all bonuses and total)
All four players were frequent GMs at our FLGS. Two of them struggled to figure out the last +1 for one of their bonuses. They were all legit, but it took them some time to track it all down.
One of them handed me a list of purchases as a formality. I blew it off, then looked at the most expensive item on the list (2000gp) and sneered, jokingly, "do you even have enough Fame for this?" He did not. He was 1 point short. And he was a venture officer. A perfectly honest mistake that I happened to catch because I was being a jerk.
It was all done before I finished setting up. All I had to do was look over four line items and look for any red flags.
It was eye-opening for me. Definitely going to do this from now on, with one addition--most expensive item purchased on this or previous chronicle.
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I normally use notecards to track a character's initiative. I'm thinking I'll start doing a few basic spot checks on the back side of the card.
Quick poll to my fellow GMs, if you were going to have players write and break down on their card only four things that I would review, what would you have them write down?
I'm thinking of the following:
1) Attack breakdown (including iterative attacks) *OR* Top Spell DCs
2) Hit point total
3) Top two skills
4) Most expensive item
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Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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Friends dont let friends use Hero Lab.Agreed. Herolab gets used as a crutch too often. I usually oversimplify this statement and say, "Herolab makes people stupid."
Real men build characters with Notepad. 'Swhat I use.
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Notepad? Excel?
Ha! Notebook paper - just blank sheets.
And if you're real "Old School", blank unlined sheets...
Nah, even "old school", we used lined paper. I still have my first sheet, created using the red box Basic set in 1983, though most of it's no longer readable.
But I do still use character sheets and pencil to create every PC - none of this newfangled computer stuff. And I learned long ago to stick to pencil, not pen.
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Notepad? Excel?
Ha! Notebook paper - just blank sheets.
And if you're real "Old School", blank unlined sheets...Nah, even "old school", we used lined paper. I still have my first sheet, created using the red box Basic set in 1983, though most of it's no longer readable.
But I do still use character sheets and pencil to create every PC - none of this newfangled computer stuff. And I learned long ago to stick to pencil, not pen.
I build all mine that way to start, though I do maintain them in HL.
I always thought of 'old school' in using graph paper, including with characters.
That is what I made my first character, 1st edition D&D, on.
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Funny thing is, almost every time I have second guessed Hero Lab's math on something I have been wrong. It is a very rare occasion the HL is wrong when I think it is. I figure if I do the math on a normal character sheet I will screw up way more than Hero Lab will if I make use of it.
I also try to be aware of any numbers that don't make sense and double check the total.
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So, at the beginning of tonight's session, I had each of the PCs write down their best Skill check, their AC and their attack roll/save DC and explain how they got them. It worked relatively well, although the summoner took a little while since he needed to spell out for both him and his eidolon. It didn't take up too much time, although I might just premake index cards with what I'm looking for on it so that the players take slightly less time and don't keep on asking me. I think I might just keep doing this, but switch out the things I ask for depending on the mod. For instance:
I asked for AC, skill and attack/save DC because:
AC - I knew that incorporeal touch was a thing in this mod, so I wanted to make sure that they paid attention to their AC and knew what counted towards their incorporeal touch.
Skill - I knew one guy had high diplo, so I wanted to know how much was magic for when the angel asked him to take his magic gear off.
Attack/Save DC bonuses - Didn't need to know this, threw it in as distraction.
Next week I will run The Secrets Stones Keep.
I'm going to ask them for the gear they wear, the gear that's on their person and the gear they have in their backpack. That way I can see what metal items they have on them in advance before signs of rust monsters. If they ask why, I'll just say that I'm looking to see if they have one of three particular items and if I told them which, it would be a spoiler.