Place Your Bets! Dragon's Demand and Dominion of the Black!


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

This Monday, July subscriptions should be shipping. That means Mike Shel's The Dragon's Demand the first of the new Pathfinder Supermodule format will be in our downloads next week. Some lucky fools will have it Monday possibly.

We know The Dragon's Demand will have HARD COLD FACTS about the Dominion of the Black.

How do we know this? I'll tell you how we know!

From James Jacobs's lips to your ears!

It don't get more cold-hard-facty than that.

Who or what mysterious agencies are behind the Dominion? Tell us what you know!

Take a guess. Be specific. Put it behind spoiler tags just in case. Its okay if you agree with somebody else, you'll share in the glory and the bragging rights. NO INSIDER KNOWLEDGE! Take your guess before it starts to ship.

Here's mine:

Spoiler:
Neh-Thalggu! Brain Collecting Crabs From Outer Space!

What's your guess?


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My money is on that something Mikaze said is right.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Cheapy wrote:
My money is on that something Mikaze said is right.

Non-answer! Non-specific! Gutless! YOU LOSE!

I'm kidding, but there's no courage in ambiguity. Unless of course, you're a political analyst on a cable news network. "What I think is really important here is something you didn't just ask me about.."


I'm pretty sure you're right, Jim, and that would be my guess, too.

What I'm really curious about is how the Dominion factors into Dragon's Demand...


In Doom Comes to Dustpawn, it states that vespergaunts sometimes serve the Dominion, but are not actual members. This suggests to me that the Dominion is defined by species as opposed to just being a cabal of like-minded creatures. I think there will be a "Dominion" subspecies, just like "Demon" or "Kyton," with members falling into a broad range of challenge ratings.

Also pods. Leathery, scaly, super-hard pods that glow faintly from within. That's less a guess, more a copy/paste from the Thornkeep Module (Dominion of the Black Pod, page 51).

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Generic Villain wrote:
I think there will be a "Dominion" subspecies, just like "Demon" or "Kyton," with members falling into a broad range of challenge ratings.

So your guess is a new creature type, with new original creatures belonging to it?


Jim Groves wrote:


So your guess is a new creature type, with new original creatures belonging to it?

New creature subtype, like aquatic or demon. I see one or two of the lower-level Dominion beasties showing up in Dragon's Demand, with higher CR ones being statted later. That's my guess. Plus the pods.

Sovereign Court

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Weren't the pods just Alien easter eggs?

Which means they might never be used again.

I think they want to keep the mystery on Dominion of the Black so it'll be just a few teasing, suggestive details rather than anything to build understanding from.

I'm thinking that there'll be a hive-mind element to the Dominion.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I believe that we'll have hints and bits revealed about the Dominion, because the next year's summer AP is Numeria+DistantWorlds with DotB as main antagonists :)


GeraintElberion wrote:

Weren't the pods just Alien easter eggs?

Probably; I'm just messing around with the pod thing. But then again that chapter of Thornkeep was done by the Creative Director, so who knows.

Silver Crusade

I'm guessing aliens of some sort. ;)

Srsly though, I think something neh-thalggu related may be the most likely, but man I do love the idea of a new sub-type Generic Villain put forth. Maybe some sort of template to bring in non-Dominion beings too?

waiting for that email


The mythology that has placed dragons as an off-shoot of the First World linnorms was way wrong . . . Dragons actually are the Dominion of the Black, an alien species that has yet to reveal their deepest and darkest secrets for Golarion. Even the metallics have only been playing a role of true deception up to this point, establishing themselves hereto as agents of good, simply waiting for the right time to spring their plan into action.

Who knew, all this time, dragons were actually dark agents from the stars?

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Bold guess Sub-Creator! I approve of taking your best shot!

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Spoiler:
Some nesting black dragon is looking over the full extent of her swampy domain, when she discovers a soft entrance in the muck that leads deep below ground, with a massive cavern that travels all the way to the lowest depths of Orv.

There, she accidentally touched or ate some of the black ichors residing there (leftovers from the Dominion's probes), and it affected her mind permanently. She now sends/receives telepathic messages to the Dominion in space, informing them about Golarion and its inhabitants. Using threats as leverage against the humanoid population to gain riches and food from them has backfired, and the humanoids are about to attack. So she sends a little message out into the stars.

The Dominion shows up, and they are basically the Engineers/Space Jockeys from Alien/Prometheus, all jacked up on genetically-engineered black space juice. All manner of disgusting alien species (brain crabs included) are sent out to kill and capture humanoids, and a genetics-altering goo slowly turns the PCs against one another as they try to battle the Dominion's dominance.

By the end of the adventure, the original black dragon gives birth / is mutated into something absolutely wondrous, hideous, with tentacles or no eyes.

Oh wait, was this supposed to be what I *actually* think it will be about, or the adventure that I pretty much want it to be? In any case, I'm sure it will be very good. :P ;)

Silver Crusade

I wouldn't be shocked if there were a draconic element, though I really don't know enough about Golarion lore to make an educated guess.

But it is "The Dragon's Demand" after all. And wasn't there mention of some weird dragons for Bestiary 4? "Outer Dragons" or something like that? Maybe they'll be tied in.


Joe M. wrote:

I wouldn't be shocked if there were a draconic element, though I really don't know enough about Golarion lore to make an educated guess.

But it is "The Dragon's Demand" after all. And wasn't there mention of some weird dragons for Bestiary 4? "Outer Dragons" or something like that? Maybe they'll be tied in.

The "Outer Dragons" would be my bet as well.


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Oh, snap! Xidoraven!

I never thought about connecting the Dominion of the Black with the Land of Black Blood/Blackfrost/Black Muck of Aucturn before! Don't know why it never occurred to me!

But now I think there must be some kind of connection there!

(Of course, now that I'm thinking about it, it should have been obvious all along. Especially with the whole X-Files/aliens/black oil parallels.)

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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That is a very good guess.

Those thoughts are running all through my other Conspiracy thread.

Not sure why *I* didn't think of it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You say no insider knowledge. I assume that having the PDF already counts? ;)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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At LEAST one thing on this thread is correct.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Shadar Aman wrote:
You say no insider knowledge. I assume that having the PDF already counts? ;)

If you have the secret from the PDF please go right ahead.

Do please use spoiler tags if you know for sure. But I would be delighted to open your spoiler tag and learn the truth.

This was all for fun, so I don't mind being wrong. :)

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

James Jacobs wrote:
At LEAST one thing on this thread is correct.

As long as you're having fun with it! :)


James Jacobs wrote:
At LEAST one thing on this thread is correct.

Tease. :P


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jim Groves wrote:
Shadar Aman wrote:
You say no insider knowledge. I assume that having the PDF already counts? ;)

If you have the secret from the PDF please go right ahead.

Do please use spoiler tags if you know for sure. But I would be delighted to open your spoiler tag and learn the truth.

This was all for fun, so I don't mind being wrong. :)

Well then....

If you think you can handle it...:
Your guess appears to be correct. The Dominion of the Black scout is a neh-thalggu. It's not clear (to me at least) if this means the Dominion is all neh-thalggu, or if they're just used as scouts. One of the new monsters in the book is a creature bred by the Dominion, and it's quite creepy.

Silver Crusade

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Just got it. :)

If we're extrapolating the nature of the Dominion from what's in this adventure:

Spoiler:
Seconding the uncertainty on whether or not the neh-thalggu are actual members of the Dominion or some sort of engineered tool. Given the new Dominion creature in this though, along with the Vespergaunt's role in the dominion, it seems like the Dominion is entirely organic in nature. No biomechanical theme going on really. Their new creature looks more "traditionally" Lovecraft than Giger body horror here.

Feeding on thoughts and emotions seems to be the unifying theme between the neh-thalggu, vespergaunts, and the new yangethe. Maybe these beings serve as sense or information collectors for the Dominion as a whole? Possibly operating like the sensory organs of a greater whole?

With the Grioth description, it sounds like the Dominion has a very antagonistic relationship with the followers of Nyralathotep.

Still not sure if one can derive an accurate picture of the Dominion from that, but it does point in certain directions.

Sovereign Court

Patiently awaiting my sub email. I hope it hasn't been delayed by the comic.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

:) I love UFO/ET/Conspiracy-Theory stuff, especially to help inspire me to write better fiction. :P

If there isn't already a villain in the Golarion mythos making use of black goo that affects everyone in a violent/mutating way, then it is my personal opinion that all Golarion villains are essentially wimps, regardless of their other past deeds. You have not surpassed yourselves; keep trying. The Engineers still beat you.

Another thing I have yet to put to use: When referencing something called Project Lotus, a scientist says they were able to create something using these micro-wormholes to release exotic micro-particles, and in the process, were able to create organic matter from them. The nature of this organic matter appeared to be similar to neural cells, and the concern that they may be "growing" an artificial intelligence far beyond their comprehension popped up, and they shut down that aspect of the propagation project. Now, imagine a villain taking the opposite decision.

What/where does this inter-planar neural goo come from? What is it forming? And how does the malevolent and despicable mind put it to fair use?


So, after the latest installment of Wrath of the Righteous (Demons' Heresy), I think we can say without much doubt that the Dominion is made up of neh-thalggu. At the very least, they are the bottom rung.

Liberty's Edge

Generic Villain wrote:
So, after the latest installment of Wrath of the Righteous (Demons' Heresy), I think we can say without much doubt that the Dominion is made up of neh-thalggu. At the very least, they are the bottom rung.

I haven't gotten around to reading my subscriber copy in too much detail yet. What are the Dominion references?


Speaking of the Dominion and the Neh-Thalggu connections, it occurred to me earlier today that the Draeden, Immortal beings from the Mentzer/Gold Box Immortals set, would be really cool upper level Dominion entities (leaders?)

I don't know if they're Wizards IP or not, but if not, I'd love to see them as part of the Dominion.

(There's a picture of them on this page, but it doesn't do them justice. They're tremendously large. Hundreds of thousands of feet large.)


Joshua Goudreau wrote:

I haven't gotten around to reading my subscriber copy in too much detail yet. What are the Dominion references?

The primary villain...

spoiler:

has an alliance with neh-thalggus who are of the Dominion. Also, in his library, one topic that is covered in detail is "...the neh-thalggus of the Dominion of the Black."

When you also take into account the info from Dragon's Demand, it's pretty clear that neh-thalggus are, at the very least, a large part of the Dominion.

Liberty's Edge

Awesomesauce. The worm that walks article has a Lovecraft quote as well, so I wasn't sure how far beyond the creepy crawly big bad the Dominion stuff went. It seems that the time has come for the developers to reveal details about the Dominion of the Black. It features prominently in Mummy's Mask as well.


Joshua Goudreau wrote:
It features prominently in Mummy's Mask as well.

Where did you read that? Because from what I've read, the devs have specifically noted that the Dominion of the Black will not have any involvement with Mummy's Mask. I could find specific quotes, but meh. One reason they won't be featured is because they will definitely be showing up in the AP after Mummy's Mask, Iron Gods. Specifically, adventure 4 of Iron Gods is entitled "Valley of the Brain Eaters" - which you may know is the layman's term for neh-thalggu. Also, this is yet more evidence that the Dominion is all about neh-thalggu.

Scarab Sages

Generic Villain wrote:
Joshua Goudreau wrote:
It features prominently in Mummy's Mask as well.
Where did you read that? Because from what I've read, the devs have specifically noted that the Dominion of the Black will not have any involvement with Mummy's Mask. I could find specific quotes, but meh. One reason they won't be featured is because they will definitely be showing up in the AP after Mummy's Mask, Iron Gods. Specifically, adventure 4 of Iron Gods is entitled "Valley of the Brain Eaters" - which you may know is the layman's term for neh-thalggu. Also, this is yet more evidence that the Dominion is all about neh-thalggu.

Here's your quote:

JJ's Reply in Mummy's Mask Thread

Liberty's Edge

Maybe I'm thinking of Iron Gods, but I'm pretty sure Mr. Jacobs came off one of the con panels saying the Dominion would feature prominently in the AP.

[EDIT]
I just went back and read this thread and I was thinking of Iron Gods not Mummy's Mask featuring the Dominion.

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