Wizard / Magus spellbook

[Umbranus]

Does a multiclassed wizard/magus need two seperate spellbooks?
Or could he write all his spells into one, memorizing the spells for both from the same book?
Using one book would save some money and lower the pagecount. Because, for example he would not need to write spells he knows for both classes down in two books. All those cantrips for example.

I know that it's always clever to have a backup spellbook in case the main one is lost/stolen/destroyed. But that's a different thing.

[Skylancer4]

You can definitely use a single spellbook. That is without a doubt possible.

I don't think you can intermix the spells from different classes though. I'm not 100% on all the rules regarding spell books as I don't usually multiclass between similar casting classes (if ever). I seem to remember something that allowed you to study out of a spell book that wasn't yours and would say that might come into play in a situation like this, you would essentially be reading an 'incorrect' version of the spell for one of the classes. It would be interesting to see what they say about this if it gets FAQ'd.

[Umbranus]

So you think to be able to use one spell, lets say magic missile, for both classes you would have to write it down twice?

[Gjorbjond]

Wizard/Magus should be fine. It specifically says that they can learn from each other's spellbooks, so the formula is pretty much the same.

I'd only require a separate formula book if you threw alchemist into the mix. They can learn from wizard spellbooks, but not the other way around.

[Artanthos]

Gjorbjond wrote:

Wizard/Magus should be fine. It specifically says that they can learn from each other's spellbooks, so the formula is pretty much the same.

I'd only require a separate formula book if you threw alchemist into the mix. They can learn from wizard spellbooks, but not the other way around.

Even then I would allow the spells to be kept in the same book, but would require separate entries for the wizard/alchemist versions of each spell.

It would equate to a book where one page was written in English and the next written in French. Possible, but confusing to anybody not proficient with both languages.

[wraithstrike]

The spell known list would still have to be tracked separately. Just because you know a spell as a wizard that does not mean you have access to it as a magus for the purpose of preparing spells.

[Artanthos]

wraithstrike wrote:

The spell known list would still have to be tracked separately. Just because you know a spell as a wizard that does not mean you have access to it as a magus for the purpose of preparing spells.

Spells known for a wizard/magus are the spells in his spellbook.

Wizards wrote:

A wizard must study his spellbook each day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his spellbook,

Magus wrote:

A magus may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook.

....

A magus can learn spells from a wizard's spellbook, just as a wizard can from a magus's spellbook.

[wraithstrike]

The rules have never allowed classes to share spells. That is what I am saying. Them using the same mechanic does not matter unless a specific rules exception is listed.

You might know spell X as a magus, but that does not mean that you can prepare it as a wizard. The rules assumed you are single classed. Unless you have a dev statement or an FAQ is out, you can't even assume one spellbook can be used between both classes.

[Umbranus]

wraithstrike wrote:

The rules have never allowed classes to share spells. That is what I am saying. Them using the same mechanic does not matter unless a specific rules exception is listed.

You might know spell X as a magus, but that does not mean that you can prepare it as a wizard. The rules assumed you are single classed. Unless you have a dev statement or an FAQ is out, you can't even assume one spellbook can be used between both classes.

The rules allow you to copy your magus spells to your wizard spellbook and from then on cast them as a wizard and the other way round.

I just wanted to know if this writing them down a second time is really needed or if that's redundand and can be skipped.

[wraithstrike]

I understand Umbranus. Most likely you may have to copy them over since copying spells cost gp, but it really does not make sense from an in-game perspective.

I have tried to find an answer, but this question has not come up before. I will just hit the FAQ button, while I continue to look.

[Artanthos]

No distinction is made between a book holding magus spells and a book holding wizard spells. The only stipulation made is that the spell must be in the caster's spellbook.

[Kazaan]

A Magus can pick up a Wizard's spellbook and memorize the spells. Likewise, a Wizard can pick up a Magus's spellbook and memorize the spells. So, mechanically speaking, there's no practical reason to say that a Wizard/Magus needs to write down Magic Missile twice; once to memorize with "Wizard" spells per day and again to memorize with "Magus" spells per day. So, since there's no explicit rule stating you need to, and they're mechanically the same without such a rule, the default presumption is that you only need to write down the spell once and it serves both classes. Spell Combat only requires the spell is on the Magus spell list; so even if you learned it as a spontaneous spell through Bard or Sorcerer, if it also happens to be a Magus spell, you can use it spontaneously.

[LazarX]

Kazaan wrote:

A Magus can pick up a Wizard's spellbook and memorize the spells. Likewise, a Wizard can pick up a Magus's spellbook and memorize the spells. So, mechanically speaking, there's no practical reason to say that a Wizard/Magus needs to write down Magic Missile twice; once to memorize with "Wizard" spells per day and again to memorize with "Magus" spells per day. So, since there's no explicit rule stating you need to, and they're mechanically the same without such a rule, the default presumption is that you only need to write down the spell once and it serves both classes. Spell Combat only requires the spell is on the Magus spell list; so even if you learned it as a spontaneous spell through Bard or Sorcerer, if it also happens to be a Magus spell, you can use it spontaneously.

If that were true, there would be no reason for the Spell Blending Arcana. The storage issue for a Magus/Wizard is not an issue, but the spell still needs to be learned and memorised in those separate lists.

The Magus/Bard however is even more estranged in his dual self, the two spell lists are completely separate and if the Magus is using armor beyond the Bard proficiencies he is subject to arcane spell failure and can not use Bard spells in spell combat without the Arcana.

This applies to the Wizard/Magus too. Assuming that the Spell Blending Arcana is not taken, the Wizard spells are subject to ASF rolls if he wears armor.

[Bwang]

RAW, I'd have to say 'yes', but I can't conceive of any but the biggest lout giving you grief. Gjorbjond makes strong points That I'll use if it comes down to it: My GM allowed the other Wizard to count corresponding Magus spells as their Wizard counters, lets her get a spell or so saved from the writing chores. Very urbane and proactive.

[Kazaan]

LazarX wrote:

If that were true, there would be no reason for the Spell Blending Arcana. The storage issue for a Magus/Wizard is not an issue, but the spell still needs to be learned and memorised in those separate lists.

There's quite an important reason for Spell Blending. If a spell is on the Wizard list but not on the Magus list, then, even though you can cast it, you can't use it with Spell Combat or Spellstrike. Spell Blending, however, lets you learn a spell from the Wizard list and treat it as a Magus list spell which means you can use it with Spellstrike and Spell Combat. Lastly, it's no what class the spell comes from that determines how ASF works, it's what kind of a slot you memorize it/spontaneously cast it from that's important. If you have the Light spell learned through Bard (spontaenous), Light is a spell also from the Magus spell list so you can spontaneously cast it with Spell Combat, but you determine ASF for it as a Bard spell (light armor, no ASF). But you couldn't do this with Lullaby because it's only on the Bard list, not the Magus list, it's cast as a standard by default Bard ASF. But, back to the topic at hand, if a Magus picks up a Wizard's spellbook and that spellbook contains Magic Missile, the Magus can memorize Shocking Grasp out of the Wizard's spellbook and cast it as part of Spell Combat and deliver it via Spellstrike. But, with Spell Blending, you could add Ray of Sickening from the wizard list (it isn't on the Magus list) to your spellbook and cast it as part of Spell Combat, even if you memorized it out of someone else's spellbook.