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Is it possible to add the buy just the ability to weapons? I came up with a Chronicle Sheet (Shades of Ice III) yesterday that gave me a (fire ability) yesterday but having to buy an axe +2 with the (fire ability worth another +2).
Now since my character is a fighter with archer feats, I won't get access to this ability until much later on maybe lvl. 9, since I want a +3 weapon first. However having the specific (fire ability) would be nice to get at lvl. 7+ when my bow gets the +3 upgrade.
But I have ZERO interest in an axe with the same flame ability. Or perhaps a ranseur user, who would like this ability added to my ranseur but an axe is pointless for him.
Having the ability added as an option to purchase, without the actual weapon that might not be the PC’s choice, makes most of these Chronicle Sheet boons kina useless, IMHO. While making the abilities available, would actually be a boon to weapon using PCs.
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Man...you are fighting a dead battle. This topic has been put to rest years ago. The campaign staff agreed to add more interesting items to chronicle sheets and have followed through on it. The chronicles from season 4 are much better than previous seasons. I honestly don't think they are going to completely revamp how items on chronicle sheets work.
Good luck tilting at windmills.
As for my personal opinion on the point made. I don't like the idea. I prefer a bit of verisimilitude in my role playing. The idea that I can somehow get an ability on my item because I fought a guy with it just doesn't fall into my opinion of realism. I much prefer seeing the exact items in the scenario on the chronicle.
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Have you ever purchased a weapon of a boon sheet? I know I haven't. I've never bought anything of true value of a boon sheet, to be quite honest. A potion here and a potion there perhaps but nothing worth more than 300gp.
My first fighter bought +2 Full Plate long before he would have had enough fame for it. I have bought a number of partially charged wands from the Chronicle sheet. I have bought other specialty items from the chronicle sheets. To be honest I think it would take the game further away from the feel of found group treasure if you could buy just part of something like you have asked for.
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For me most of the stuff they offer is junk. +1 weapons and armor I can buy on my own and +2 I can get soon enough on my own. Besides, we're Pathfinders, when 5 people buy the same axe, its not actually the same axe, we are buying the services of a wizard to enchant the item for us, said enchanter's services being the ones that are being offered.
Now why that enchanter can only enchant an axe with the flame ability but not a sword or a dagger or a bow is beyond logic to me.
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It is normalization.
The rules are an attempt to balance the game. Not to make it realistic. The chronicle is offering a very specific item, for the rare few people that would want it. The people making the game felt this was balanced.
If you want the rules to be made to favor you vs making the game balanced you will find little support, and the people that can make that change will not bend.
Developer
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For me most of the stuff they offer is junk. +1 weapons and armor I can buy on my own and +2 I can get soon enough on my own. Besides, we're Pathfinders, when 5 people buy the same axe, its not actually the same axe, we are buying the services of a wizard to enchant the item for us, said enchanter's services being the ones that are being offered.
Now why that enchanter can only enchant an axe with the flame ability but not a sword or a dagger or a bow is beyond logic to me.
The items on the Chronicle sheet do not reflect things that a freelance wizard created; they are items actually found during the adventure. Just as one cannot transform a magical axe into a magical lance, so too is this option not included on the Chronicle sheet.
As Lab_Rat noted above, campaign staff is well aware that older Chronicle sheets do not always include the most desirable equipment. We have worked to change this—particularly over the past 4 months.
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Axe +2 with the (+2 flame ability) makes it a +4 weapon. At lvl. 5, that means its way above the fame limit. That's what the boons are supposed to be, giving you things beyond your fame limit.
I have not seen any boons that grant items (or I should write that I cannot recall any of them that do as much at the moment). Boons tend to grant mechanical bonuses such as an Extra Trait, a +2 bonus on a skill, free (up to 4PP) property, and so on. They also open up races to play.
Moreover, you consistently reference "the fire (later flame) ability". If this is the Flaming enhancement, it is a +1 bonus. Has been since 3E. Before that there was the Flame Tongue. At any rate, the +2 Flaming weapon is in the 18,000 gp price range and not the 32,000 gp price range, which means it should be available for nominal purchase around 7th-9th level.
If I'm wrong on the math, what boons offer, or the Flame Tongue (my favorite Pool of Radiance weapon), I'm sure I will be swiftly and thoroughly corrected.
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That specific weapon is well above the fame level of the players. I believe the weapon is a +2 (maybe only a +1) flaming burst Great Axe. It is pretty nasty and can kill a player easily.
I should know, my GM threw it at me and crit me. My barbarian lost 50+ hp and finished the fight with only a few hp left.
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The scenario ends with
Seems like a good ability but I'm never going to spend 32,000 on a axe that I'll never use. If however the ability itself was made available, I might add it to my Compound Long Bow. Heck, the lvl. 4 warrior might be willing to buy a +2 to his weapon, since that is not available to him until lvl. 5 and 2/3rds of a level, seeing as all weapons +2 require 27 fame, so at best you have to have done a minimum of 14 scenarios with 2 prestige in each scenario to have 27 fame.
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BTW, I've heard the way prestige is awarded will be changed in S5 so that you don't always wind up with 2 prestige.
Are the fame rules going to change? Or is it possible that someone who has done 27 adventures and only completed the main mission will have 27 fame, which allows them to purchase a weapon +2, roughly around lvl. 10?!?!?!
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Chris, the idea that you shouldn't be able to get a +2 weapon enchantment for your pathfinder until lvl. 10 is more than weird, its ludicrous.
This isn't some lvl. 10 nobleman, who commands armies all of his life. These are the guys who go digging in places best left alone. Facing undead horrors, ancient curses and evil scum, looking to enslave, maim and sacrifice, entire populations. And all I can buy now is a +2 weapon at lvl. 10, if I have a stellar run of bad luck?!?!?!
Common, seriously? You're telling me that you think a lvl. 9 pathfinder shouldn't have access to a +2 weapon of his choice?
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Its a +2 Flaming Burst Great Axe 32,320 gp. And at lvl. 5, it is way beyond my characters fame limit.And way beyond a weapon that you should be able to afford, or even see as a Chronicle option at level 5. Let's get serious here. The only way you'd even have Chronicle access to the axe in question, is if you were being carried by a high tier party.
With the new changes in PFS, those days are over. You can't count on getting a level 10 chronicle as a Level 5 character any longer.
It's a tier 4-5 reward. I'm looking at the chronicle sheet right now.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Eric, if your character keeps failing at both the faction mission and the main assignment, he might never get the respect from his superiors he needs to purchase a +2 weapon.
That seems reasonable to me. "Being 10th level" doesn't strike me as more persuasive than "keeps screwing up".
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LazarX, don't make accusations and don't assume. Especially don't assume, since then you make an *** out of U and ME.
The chronicle is for a Tier 1-5 scenario, my group was a Tier 4-5 group. That's why they call it a BOON, get it? Boons are supposed to give you access to things you shouldn't have access to, that why they are called BOONS.
Mr Compton, could you see if we can get it approved to buy Cure Moderate wands, Cure serious wands and Cure Critical wand with PA?
Let’s not get greedy, being able to buy just a wand of CMW for 3 PP would be fine for me.
:D
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thejeff And yeah, maybe my lvl. 5 ranged fighter might have opted out of upgrading to a +2 bow and instead saved his nickles and dimes for a +3 weapon upgrade, which is what would be required to give the Flame Burst ability to a +1 weapon. But that's unfortunately not an option, unless it can be made available.
And the lvl. 4 guy running with us might have wished he'd gotten the option to buy just a +2 weapon, since he can't do that until almost lvl. 6. So, not every boon should include a special ability, some should just be things like, you now have the option to upgrade to a +2 weapon or a +2 armor.
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Common, seriously? You're telling me that you think a lvl. 9 pathfinder shouldn't have access to a +2 weapon of his choice?My level 7 goblin has barely enough fame to buy a +2 weapon. If it wasn't for other kind Grand Lodge faction members I'd have less than 20 fame.
Have you been eating your faction missions again?
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Have you been eating your faction missions again?Common, seriously? You're telling me that you think a lvl. 9 pathfinder shouldn't have access to a +2 weapon of his choice?My level 7 goblin has barely enough fame to buy a +2 weapon. If it wasn't for other kind Grand Lodge faction members I'd have less than 20 fame.
Why Valsin continues to ask a goblin to draw him maps or find books is beyond me...
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The scenario ends with us giving the axe up and letting the 'good guys' bury it under a mountain, once more. The axe with the Flame Burst ability is still available to me. An axe that neither I, nor my fellow pathfinders actually bring back to Pathfinder Society. So I can buy a replica of the axe with the ability as a boon but not the ability itself.
Seems like a good ability but I'm never going to spend 32,000 on a axe that I'll never use. If however the ability itself was made available, I might add it to my Compound Long Bow. Heck, the lvl. 4 warrior might be willing to buy a +2 to his weapon, since that is not available to him until lvl. 5 and 2/3rds of a level, seeing as all weapons +2 require 27 fame, so at best you have to have done a minimum of 14 scenarios with 2 prestige in each scenario to have 27 fame.
The way I played it, choosing to bury the axe under the mountain got it crossed off our chronicle sheet.
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Eric, if this is such a problem, might I suggest you play pathfinder outside of PFS? All I'm hearing is a bunch of complaining.
The complaints are only for people who play for by the rules, obviously you don't. See your own quote below.
You can just pay the difference between a +1 and a +2 weapon and be done with it.. as far as I know, there isn't a specific boon needed to do something like that.
In case you don't know what the rule is, you can't buy a magic item that costs more than 8,000gp until you reach 27 FAME. Since any +2 weapon will cost 8,001gp+, that means that you can't buy the +2 weapon until you're at least lvl. 5 and 2exp. (That's MINIMUM, with every mission completed for 2 presitge.)
I'm asking for a change, for people who follow the rules. If you or your fellow players and GMs, choose to ignore them or simply don't know them, that's cool but don't get snippy with me because you don't.
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So, getting back to your original question, how would this work mechanically?
Would the boon allow you to buy a new weapon with the ability while ignoring Fame limits?
("You may purchase a +2 Flaming Burst Weapon of your choice")
If so, are you allowed to use special materials? There's a big difference between a +2 Flaming Burst Ranseur and a +2 Flaming Burst Adamantine Ranseur, furthering the gap between expected Fame limitations.
Or would the boon allow you to add the weapon ability to a weapon while ignoring Fame limits? If so, is there any limitation on what weapons it can be applied to? Getting to add a +1 weapon ability to a +1 weapon means you're ignoring up to 6,000gp over your Fame cap. Adding it to a +2 weapon is ignoring up to 10,000gp over your limit.
The Fame caps are meant to keep characters at roughly equivalent power levels. When you bypass those restrictions, you need to make sure you're not giving characters the ability to walk over level-appropriate encounters.
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So, getting back to your original question, how would this work mechanically?
Would the boon allow you to buy a new weapon with the ability while ignoring Fame limits?
("You may purchase a +2 Flaming Burst Weapon of your choice")
If so, are you allowed to use special materials? There's a big difference between a +2 Flaming Burst Ranseur and a +2 Flaming Burst Adamantine Ranseur, furthering the gap between expected Fame limitations.Or would the boon allow you to add the weapon ability to a weapon while ignoring Fame limits? If so, is there any limitation on what weapons it can be applied to? Getting to add a +1 weapon ability to a +1 weapon means you're ignoring up to 6,000gp over your Fame cap. Adding it to a +2 weapon is ignoring up to 10,000gp over your limit.
The Fame caps are meant to keep characters at roughly equivalent power levels. When you bypass those restrictions, you need to make sure you're not giving characters the ability to walk over level-appropriate encounters.
I assure you, the 32,000gp +2 Flameburst axe breaks the fame limits. This is why its on a boon sheet. Its meant to allow the player to go beyond his current limitations at lvl. 5.
As for special materials, if you pay 2,000gp for an adamantine +1 weapon and want to pay the +34,000gp for it, that’s 30,000gp you are saving between +1 and +2 Flame Burst. Those are nickels and dimes you didn’t spend for 6-8 levels? So, your PC was walking around with a +1 adamantine weapon worth, 4,000gp for 5 levels? Sure, you suffered the consequences of being poorly armed and armored and risked your life with craptastic AC and saves for 6 levels, have at it.
This is an issue of a tradeoff and free choice. If you take the risks of going on an adventure, with 29,000gp sitting in your bank account, then yes, you get to buy your Ferrari when you finally get to 30,000gp and upgrade your 4,000gp adamantine +1 weapon to a +2 Flame Burst weapon.
Just like in RL, one guy always drives a new 1-5 year old Honda Accord, while the other guy drives a beat up truck and finally saves enough to drive a Porsche. It’s your money and you squirreled it away long enough, here’s your pay off.
Except when you hit 34,000gp to finally get that awesome weapon, you’re still wearing garbage armor which might mean you get to shred your PC if a BBEG gets you in his sights.
I’m not sure it’s that much of a game breaker personally, allowing the guy who buys Mithral Full Plate vs. the guy with a standard Steel Full Plate the right to buy a +2 armor enchantment. You still have to spend $10k for the Mithral version and you gave up on that nice Ioun Stone and the other shinny things.
Why tell a lvl. 7 PC that because he bought a Mithral FP that he can’t have the +2 enchantment but the guy who bought the Steel FP that he can? One guy is out an extra $8k.
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I have started another thread, but what I can't see is how any level 5 character could ever have saved 32,000 GP. That's 12 scenarios awarding almost 2,700 GP each. I'm absolutely sure that is not possible, even if you played up in Tier 4 the whole time (those scenarios award 1,000-1,500 GP each). Maybe that's off topic, but I *consistently* see posts about folks purchasing things they should not be able to afford in PFS.
Yes, the boon should bypass your Fame restriction, but where is the cash coming from?
Maybe I'm wrong. Can anyone name me a Tier 4-5 scenarios that wards over 2,000 GP? If so, sign me up!
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They can't Derek, the boon isn't for this period, its to allow players to purchase it later on in their career, even when their Fame still tells them NO. Getting access to a 32,000gp item requires lvl. 8.66 with 2 prestige awards for every scenario. Some players might scrape up 32,000gp earlier and not have the fame for it, so they can go back to this boon and purchase it. At lvl. 5.66, I currently have collected around 15,000gp. So, I couldn't tell you how anyone gets 32,000gp.
In regards to your worry Cameron. I can get access to a +4 weapon at lvl. 8.66. I wouldn't, personally, I think a +3 weapon is a must at lvl. 7 for all the DR beasties. Which means if I'm going for the Flame Burst option I'm going to pay for it as a +1 Flame Burst weapon. But for the guy who waits for his +1 Flame Burst, he'll still have it at lvl. 7, if he's been successful in all his scenarios. Me personally, I prefer a +3 weapon over the +1 Flame Burst. It feels more organic. But for the min/maxer, he'll read every scenario before hand and will always succeed in all his side missions and he'll still have the super weapon at lvl. 7. This is more for the guys who actually RP a character and say, sorry, I'm LG and I'm not going to do this assassination, even if that's my faction mission.
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Matt it has nothing to do with game breaking. Its about the guys who want to role play and not do every side mission. We had a guy who was doing an Andoran mission and was supposed to kill a slaver and say "'Andoran dude' sends his regards."
Problem in this scenario might exist when we "the party" take the guy prisoner who says if you spare me, I'll surrender. The party agrees.
Now the guy is tied up and helpless. What's the LG Paladin supposed to do now? Execute a tied up guy to get his +1 Prestige point? And he's going to kill a guy who surrendered in return for his life.
So, he's a LG oath breaking Paladin, who murders enemies who have surrendered to him on the condition of having their life spared? These boons are for those guys, who might miss out on having a +2 weapon due to their Role-Playing vs Roll Playing, which seems to be the attitude of a lot of players.
What about the rest of the party, who took this guy's surrender seriously and their buddy is about to murder a tied up prisoner? What're they supposed to do, just sit there and watch?