Archetypes you wish Paizo made.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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More anti-magic Martials. Like a Witchfinder General or something for Fighters/Rangers.

Also, a two-gun Gunslinger archetype could be groovy, or just a dual wielding one in general. Come on, a gun in one hand, a sword in the other? That's just great.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Vamptastic wrote:

More anti-magic Martials. Like a Witchfinder General or something for Fighters/Rangers.

Also, a two-gun Gunslinger archetype could be groovy, or just a dual wielding one in general. Come on, a gun in one hand, a sword in the other? That's just great.

There IS the Sword and Pistol feat already in the game. Somethings are better off a just feats, as opposed to hardwiring a character that specifically to one mode of combat.

You can dual wield guns with standard two weapon fighting mechanics. There really just isn't any point to doing so in a game setting without revolvers.


Or a brace of pistols.


LazarX wrote:

There IS the Sword and Pistol feat already in the game. Somethings are better off a just feats, as opposed to hardwiring a character that specifically to one mode of combat.

You can dual wield guns with standard two weapon fighting mechanics. There really just isn't any point to doing so in a game setting without revolvers.

Would be nice if you could reload those weapons while dual wielding without ludicrous shenanigans like magic 3rd arms or strings though.

Liberty's Edge

Heymitch wrote:
I have a very hard time seeing how a splash of Cha-based Monk is more unbalanced than a splash of Wis-based Monk, especially when you consider that Wisdom is a mechanically superior stat (even though Charisma may better fit your concept).
+5 Toaster wrote:
it's not what it does for the monk, but what it does for classes dipping the monk.

I didn't misunderstand. I just don't see how it's more advantageous than a Wisdom-based Monk is for classes that are keyed off of Wisdom...like Druid, or Inquisitor, or Empyreal Sorcerer, for example.

It just means that other builds that are keyed off of Charisma will benefit more from Monk dips. So what?


I'd like to see a summoner archetype that allows me to bond my eidolon to other party members. I want to be Zordon.

I also wouldn't mind a broodmaster/synthesist combo so that I have a different eidolon for different buffs.


Ditto on L/E Anti-Paladin and C/G Paladin Archetypes!

Ditto on Mountless Cavalier archetype! I love Knights, and fighter doesn't appeal to me, and having a mount when your team mates don't gets awkward occasionally.

Ditto on Smaller Archetypes to let us mix and match to fit our Concept rather than pigeon-holing mechanics to concepts.

Ditto on non-ridiculous-reloading-dual-wielding Gunslingers!

Ditto on Two-Hander Magus!

I love all the ideas in this thread.

Scarab Sages

Stome wrote:

This is an easy one as i have mentioned my wish for this a couple times around here. A Magus archetype for two handed use. I know already spell strike can be used two handed so what we need is something at least sort of useful in place of spellcombat.

Since spellcombat is a very strong ability odds are anything given in its place wont live up to it but ohh well I am not looking for it to be the most powerful Magus ever.

How I would do it is give them weapon focus/specialization as bonus feats and replace spell combat with a special form of vital strike that scales and functions with spellstrike. I know ppl don't like vital strike as a whole but I just love the idea of one big OMG smack laced with a spell.

Seconded, BIG TIME. Make sure it can be combined with the Kensei Archetype. I've always wanted to play a Kensei devoted to the Elven Curve Blade.


Heymitch wrote:
Heymitch wrote:
I have a very hard time seeing how a splash of Cha-based Monk is more unbalanced than a splash of Wis-based Monk, especially when you consider that Wisdom is a mechanically superior stat (even though Charisma may better fit your concept).
+5 Toaster wrote:
it's not what it does for the monk, but what it does for classes dipping the monk.

I didn't misunderstand. I just don't see how it's more advantageous than a Wisdom-based Monk is for classes that are keyed off of Wisdom...like Druid, or Inquisitor, or Empyreal Sorcerer, for example.

It just means that other builds that are keyed off of Charisma will benefit more from Monk dips. So what?

summoner says hi, also the list is much bigger for charisma based characters


MrSin wrote:
A druid archetype that totally gets rid of wild shaping.

Yes, and no animal companion, either. I want a Spellcaster that does Druid spells.


A rogue archetype that gives up skill points for full BAB.
Quest based paladin and cavalier archetypes, that would give bonuses towards specific kind of enemy depending on the quest (demons, dragons, invading armies, etc).
Racial class archetypes- dwarven giant slayer, elven forest steward, maybe archetypes that could be applied to more than one class to fit a concept. I know you can roleplay a concept, but it would be cool to have an option to customize a little more based on race and concept. Dwarven giant slayer could be similar to Warhammer Fantasy's Trollslayer/Giantslayer/Demonslayer career path. Elven forest steward would be pretty simple, giving an option to trade class skills for knowledge(nature), perception, and survival as class skills.
A druid archetype with slower spell progression and earlier access to wildshape abilities.

Sczarni

A Gunslinger archetype that focuses on scatter weapons like the Blunderbuss. I homebrewed one myself and posted it on these boards way back when-- called it the Sweepshooter. Not sure if that's the right execution, but I'd love to see some Blunderbuss love.

An Int-based Bard archetype. Less magical minster, more badass bookworm.

A full-BAB class that gets arcane spellcasting at the same progression as Paladins and Rangers. Maybe the Barbarian trades out uncanny dodge, DR, and a few rage powers for a 4-level spell list and Charisma casting? Fill out the spell list with some buffs and blasts from the Sor/Wiz list and a few choice bits off the Druid list.

For that matter, a Rogue archetype that gets Bard-style spell progression. I'd happily trade out ALL the rogue talents for it. Make it Int-based, give it a spellbook. Spells mostly from the Bard and Sor/Wiz list-- illusions, debuffs, and utility spells.


DrDeth wrote:
MrSin wrote:
A druid archetype that totally gets rid of wild shaping.
Yes, and no animal companion, either. I want a Spellcaster that does Druid spells.

Well the animal companion is optional in the first place, but yeah, Wild Shape, Mutagen, and the Cavalier's Mount are things I wish had more options to do away with because they're easy to ignore depending on what you're building.

Making a Bomb focused alchemist and that mutagen never comes up. Make a spell focused Druid and Beat Shaping becomes pointless.


ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:

A rogue archetype that gives up skill points for full BAB.

That would be a Fighter archetype. They almost never change things like BAB. So what you want is a Fighter with Sneak attack?


DrDeth wrote:
ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:

A rogue archetype that gives up skill points for full BAB.

That would be a Fighter archetype. They almost never change things like BAB. So what you want is a Fighter with Sneak attack?

No, he wants a Rogue with full BAB. A Fighter with Sneak Attack would be a Fighter and not a Rogue, which is what he wants.

Liberty's Edge

The jester.

Natch.


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Vamptastic wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:

A rogue archetype that gives up skill points for full BAB.

That would be a Fighter archetype. They almost never change things like BAB. So what you want is a Fighter with Sneak attack?
No, he wants a Rogue with full BAB. A Fighter with Sneak Attack would be a Fighter and not a Rogue, which is what he wants.

That would be a Alternate Class (BAB for Skill points) not an archetype.

Alternate Classes can change anything they want as they are more involved.


yesbut-why not just a fighter with SA instead of feats? There is already precedence for this from Unearthed Arcana.

Lantern Lodge

An Artificer/Constructor


Starbuck_II wrote:
Vamptastic wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:

A rogue archetype that gives up skill points for full BAB.

That would be a Fighter archetype. They almost never change things like BAB. So what you want is a Fighter with Sneak attack?
No, he wants a Rogue with full BAB. A Fighter with Sneak Attack would be a Fighter and not a Rogue, which is what he wants.

That would be a Alternate Class (BAB for Skill points) not an archetype.

Alternate Classes can change anything they want as they are more involved.

(Emphasis mine)

@Starbuck_II: I'm intrigued by this. Is there some basis for your last comment - Paizo guidelines for what constitutes an Alternate Class? I haven't seen an Alternate Class that changed BAB, but I would like to!

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

I'd really love to see an armorless Samurai.


Magus that focused on claws or a specific natural weapon vs a held weapon.

Magus that worked on charisma.

Inquisitor that runs on charisma

Eldrich Knight focused for Bard

Or a FULL base attack Bard

Psychic themed Sorcerer.


Secane wrote:
An Artificer/Constructor

That would be interesting - possibly one with an eidolon similar to a Summoner but built as a construct with different options and the Construct type. Give them their own spell list as well, limited, similar to a Summoner's, light armor profeciency but limited to simple weapons and the lowest BAB progression. Then toss in an extra feat every five levels that can only be used on Craft feats.

Sound good?

I think so. In fact, now I want to build that character, though as its own class rather than as an archetype.


Wiggz wrote:
Secane wrote:
An Artificer/Constructor

That would be interesting - possibly one with an eidolon similar to a Summoner but built as a construct with different options and the Construct type. Give them their own spell list as well, limited, similar to a Summoner's, light armor profeciency but limited to simple weapons and the lowest BAB progression. Then toss in an extra feat every five levels that can only be used on Craft feats.

Sound good?

I think so. In fact, now I want to build that character, though as its own class rather than as an archetype.

I had a theory that Magus should have been an artificer class or should have more artificer archetypes than it has.

The way I see it a Magus is not simply a cross between wizard and fighter but a man who enhances his relationship with weaponry and combat with arcane knowledge and arts. Things like the Soulforger, and Blackblade show that this relationship with weaponry can be much like the relationship between a summoner or eidolon.

Say that a Magus used the Soulforger's crafting skills to put legs on a blackblade, maybe even arms and some construct abilities. That's pretty much a robot eidolon. I'm already making plans to use construct rules from Ultimate Magic to build a Magus that makes Iron Man armor.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Starbuck_II wrote:
Vamptastic wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:

A rogue archetype that gives up skill points for full BAB.

That would be a Fighter archetype. They almost never change things like BAB. So what you want is a Fighter with Sneak attack?
No, he wants a Rogue with full BAB. A Fighter with Sneak Attack would be a Fighter and not a Rogue, which is what he wants.

That would be a Alternate Class (BAB for Skill points) not an archetype.

Alternate Classes can change anything they want as they are more involved.

(Emphasis mine)

@Starbuck_II: I'm intrigued by this. Is there some basis for your last comment - Paizo guidelines for what constitutes an Alternate Class? I haven't seen an Alternate Class that changed BAB, but I would like to!

It was one of the designer comments when someone asked them about difference between archetype and alternate classes. Not sure if I can find quote now.


Stome wrote:

This is an easy one as i have mentioned my wish for this a couple times around here. A Magus archetype for two handed use. I know already spell strike can be used two handed so what we need is something at least sort of useful in place of spellcombat.

Since spellcombat is a very strong ability odds are anything given in its place wont live up to it but ohh well I am not looking for it to be the most powerful Magus ever.

How I would do it is give them weapon focus/specialization as bonus feats and replace spell combat with a special form of vital strike that scales and functions with spellstrike. I know ppl don't like vital strike as a whole but I just love the idea of one big OMG smack laced with a spell.

I just had a cool idea. What if they made a Magus archetype with an alternate Spell Combat that functioned kind of like Flurry of Blows where you treat your BAB as your Magus level when using a two handed weapon? I'm not sure how to best balance it out, but getting access to an extra attack early may be a good trade off. I'm not sure you can balance it with Spellstrike + Spell Combat, they'd probably have to take away the free attack you get with a touch spell.

Sovereign Court

Bardess wrote:

Indiana Jones Inquisitor, expert in the whip, with sneak attack and trapfinding.

Paladinesque inquisitor, with channeling and alignment aura.

Try the Bard Archetype - Archaeologist.


Spontaneous Magus.
More spell-less Rangers.
Wild Shape-less Druid.

Silver Crusade

Make a better Anti-Paladin class. Make it more like a Shadow Knight from Everquest or a Deathknight from WoW. Heck, make it more like Lord Soth from Dragonlance. I just do not like the spell selection or much of the abilities of the class.

Want to be close to undead at a lower level than the Archtype (seplchur)
Give them the abilities to create desecrated fields that can heal them and also any undead they summon.

Give them a weapon that would "level" up with them. Maybe unlocking more abilities as you go. Needs Unholy to start.

Give them the ability to have a shield that can spell reflect.

I can think of a number of other things, but I'm sure I'm already being overpowered with what I envision with the class.


Wolfism wrote:
I'd like to see some sort of non spell casting wild shape specialist allowing you to play a martial type shape shifter, probably based on ranger.

So much yes.

Also remember someone on this forum talking about some kind of hex-using fighter archetype. Or a hex user in heavy armour anyway.

I expect I'll be losing a good few hours in that MCA page when I get the chance.


Zhayne wrote:
Spontaneous Magus...
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
...Magus that worked on charisma...
gnomersy wrote:
A spontaneous caster Magus. Not everyone wants their Spellblades to be wizardly.
SteelDraco wrote:
I'd like to see an official sorcerer version of the magus, with the option of trading out some of your arcana to pick up bloodline powers.
Matthew Morris wrote:
For those wanting spont magus/sorcerer magus, I strongly recommend SGG's Vanguard. I'd love to see Paizo do with some of the 3PP classes like they've done with the OGL monsters and 'adopt' them...

I'll second Matt's recommendation of Super Genius' Vanguard (d20pfsrd) class. Also, SGG's Ultimate Options: New Magus Arcana includes the cabalist magus archetype, who gains a sorcerer's bloodline and spontaneous casting, but is still Intelligence-focused. There is the Extempresario magus archetype (my own) in Wayfinder #7 (free) who is Charisma-focused and spontaneous casting (and spontaneous metamagicing).

Stome wrote:
...A Magus archetype for two handed use...
Kairos Dawnfury wrote:
...Ditto on Two-Hander Magus!...

SGG's UltOp: Magus also has two arcanas for two-hander spell combat, while Open Design's Might of the Magus instead takes the feat approach.

Vamptastic wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:
...A rogue archetype that gives up skill points for full BAB...
That would be a Fighter archetype. They almost never change things like BAB. So what you want is a Fighter with Sneak attack?
No, he wants a Rogue with full BAB. A Fighter with Sneak Attack would be a Fighter and not a Rogue, which is what he wants.

I have an archetype I'm cooking up, but I definitely won't have it tested and polished in time for Wayfinder #10.


I want a non-casting shapeshifter.

I'd also like to see an archetype that allows sorcerers to choose from a list of bloodline powers, like the oracle can with his mysteries.

Sczarni

A cleric archetype that trades Channeling Energy for more domains. And maybe she trades spont-casting cure or inflict in order to spont-cast her domain spells?


I guess rogue trading skill points for full BAB is an alternate class rather than an archetype. I guess the concept could work as an archetype is it got a certain number of "Sneak Attack Ace" uses per day, along the lines of a paladin's Smite Evil. The Sneak Attack Ace ability would allow sneak attack damage without flanking against one opponent, and give a bonus to hit equal to the rogue's Dex or Int (chosen at 1st level).

Another racial archetype would be something for gnome illusionists. The 1E illusionist was really cool, I think a gnome illusionist archetype could be as cool. The mechanic I'm thinking of would be allowing the gnome illusionist to learn one illusion spell of each level 2-8 as a spell one spell level lower, with the trade-off that spells from one of the prohibited schools are all treated as one level higher. This could cause serious balance issues, but it's an idea to play around with.

And it's not a racial archetype, but the two gun gunslinger archetype could work easier with a prehensile-tailed Vanara (not my idea, stolen from another poster).

Sovereign Court

I would like to see a magic using monk.

I am also wondering why you never see a Magus with a bastard sword?

Kodger


Kodger wrote:

I would like to see a magic using monk.

look for insightful mind. it literally just got finished.

Sczarni

Lot of Magus talk in this thread...

I agree with ParagonDireRaccoon on the racial archetype ideas. The ARG had some cool ones, but there's room for more methinks.

An Elf Fighter, focused on Dex and Finessable weapons?

A Gnome Barbarian, focusing on durability and Intimidate/Bluff?

A Goblin Alchemist, handling the fact that goblins love bombs but hate books (including books of formulae?).


ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:

I guess rogue trading skill points for full BAB is an alternate class rather than an archetype. I guess the concept could work as an archetype is it got a certain number of "Sneak Attack Ace" uses per day, along the lines of a paladin's Smite Evil. The Sneak Attack Ace ability would allow sneak attack damage without flanking against one opponent, and give a bonus to hit equal to the rogue's Dex or Int (chosen at 1st level).

I'd be cool with that if Sneak Attack Ace worked like Smite Evil and continually you qualify for sneak attack them until you use it on a different creature (as well as Dex/Int mod to hit).


Here is the Sneak Attack Ace archetype: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pxv0?Rogue-Archetype-Sneak-Attack-Ace#1

I haven't tested it yet, but it should be fun. The rogue probably got upgraded the least going from 3E to PF. With the improvements PF made to skills the rogue no longer has a monopoly on being a skill monkey, and any character can be sneaky with traits and the improvements to the stealth skill. Martial classes got upgraded, so it's tougher for a rogue to deal lots of sneak attack damage without getting hit for a lot of damage.


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Rogues have always had sneak attack or backstab. How about an archetype that takes away sneak attack completely. It seems every other class has a Gunslinger variant, how about a gunslinger for the rogue. It could even be combined with the Sniper archetype. The gunslinger variant could be from the Musket Master.


King_Of_The_Crossroads wrote:

I want a non-casting shapeshifter.

I'd also like to see an archetype that allows sorcerers to choose from a list of bloodline powers, like the oracle can with his mysteries.

+1. Able to become an object too. I think that an archetype for the Taskshaper could do. Hmmm... What if I write it myself...

Liberty's Edge

I think bringing wild magic back would be amazing! I endorce the wild magic sorcerer!


Stalarious wrote:
I think bringing wild magic back would be amazing! I endorce the wild magic sorcerer!

It's for wizards, but the Primalist may be what you're looking for.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wiza rd-archetypes/primalist

And there's the Primal Magic variant rules that Primalist uses. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/variant-magic-rules/primal-magic

Different name, same flavor.


Not a specific archetype itself, but I wouldn't mind seeing more existing archetypes represented across classes: ie, gladiator wizard, gladiator paladin, etc.

I know that a few of these have been done, but I wouldn't mind seeing it done more often, and not having them have to have different archetype names- as was done in the case of the pirate archetypes, where there were "pirates" and "buccaneers" and "corsairs" etc. Just "pirate" would cover it, without


ngc7293 wrote:
...How about an archetype that takes away sneak attack completely...

THIS.

I want to see a non-SA rogue just for the sake of using that design space. Comparatively few of the rogue's talents and other abilities improve sneak attack- most of them are for doing cool roguish things like picking pockets better or running along rooftops without falling like a newb. And yet the currently available archetypes trade out everything else but sneak attack. It feels like the rogue concept is chained to being "that guy who does SA damage." This in turn creates an expectation that the rogue will use that sneak attack to contribute, even if that's not what the rogue player has invested in.

I think SA would be a great thing to trade out for that spellcasting rogue others have suggested. It would be a kind of mini-arcane-trickster. I also second the motion of a sniper firearm-using rogue archetype.


Just reading about the amazing lock-picking skills of Fu Manchu and other orangutans, and I got to thinking that there should be some kind of Escape Artist rogue archetype for Vanara.


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A fighter archetype for thrown weapons. Or the same for a ranger or rogue. I'm not picky.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

A reboot of Al-Qadim's Sha'ir class, probably as a witch archetype.

A Magnimarian Golemwright as a Summoner archetype.

Shadow Lodge

Atarlost wrote:
A mountless cavalier that improves Tactician.

I'd like to see something like this too. Cavalier focused on the Tactician ability.

I'd also like to see an alchemist archetype that gives up bombs or spells or something to get better mutagens - particularly Dex based mutagens. Ragechemist is a start, but a pretty dangerous idea and it only helps strength.


I like alot of the ideas but I will add...

Summoner that is flavored like the 3.5 Malconvoker
Archer Archetype for Inquisitor (So they dont have to dip Zen Archer)

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