|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
(Sorry about this, I need to vent.)
GM and three of the six players spending almost as much time (if not more) talking about an adventure that they had played together previously rather than the game we were actually playing? CHECK
Player who wasn't entirely at the table, (what are we fighting again?)? CHECK
GM dropping CORE parts of the rules out of the adventure (don't worry about initiative, you'll act in the order that you're standing in the tunnel)? CHECK
Tricked out power-monkey (2d6+22 melee damage at 5th level), hogging all of the encounters, and complaining when his munchkin-ness wasn't allowed (I'm 6'+ tall and using a great sword, I must have reach)? CHECK
****hole TELLING other players why their characters have been built wrong, and what they MUST do during the encounters (your animal companion cannot follow you with a 5' gap in between, it must be adjacent/cast detect magic now - Ref' he's cast detect magic/etc. etc. etc.)? CHECK
AAARRRGGGHHH!
|
Darrell Impey UK,
I hope you continue to give PFS a try and sincerely hope this is an anomaly. I have been involved in hundreds of PFS tables and while I cannot deny that your experience happens, I can attest it is exceedingly rare. The vast majority of the PFS community are great people that play that contribute to everyone's fun.
If this is the "norm" for your local PFS community, maybe you can express your wish for a more serious game with a focus on the adventure at hand. Many may agree with you and have so far just followed the crowd so to say with all the table talk. RPG are after all a social game and some just lose focus when they can regale tales of games past with those listening with interest.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Two handed fighter archetype gets twice his strength to damage. +12 with a 22 strength. He definitely doesn't get reach though, no matter how tall he made his character at creation.
and complaining when his munchkin-ness wasn't allowed...so yeah, I'm not seeing what rules are being broken, here.
They played initiative by order of people in line, and that particular complain was about a player who wanted to get reach because he made his character over six feet tall, which isn't how that works. Also telling the GM what another player was doing in order to utilize his class features, if I understand correctly.
Its a PUG, it can be pretty hit or miss. Sometimes you meet awesome people, sometimes you meet the lowest common denominator. You really can't help who shows up at the table most of the time. They should however be playing by the rules, which is something that needs to be brought up probably. That's one of the few things that should be static.
|
20 str start, +4 rage +6 ragechemist +4 bull str. That is 34 right there. +6 PA. +1 enhancement. So that is 2d6+25. And this is before having fun with size modification. So yeah, 2d6+22 is NOWHERE near as tricked up as you can get it. What you have there is your basic run of the mill THF fighter.
Sorry for the stupid question just wanted to know what is +6 PA ? I'm new to PFS play.
Thanks
Sorry for the stupid question just wanted to know what is +6 PA ? I'm new to PFS play.
Power attack. You get 6 total damage from using it with 5 BAB, at the cost of 2 attack.(when using a weapon two handed.)
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
|
Darrell, feel free to get in touch with me to discuss this if you wish(or still need to vent) via these boards or paizoconuk@hotmail.com(Sorry about this, I need to vent.)
GM and three of the six players spending almost as much time (if not more) talking about an adventure that they had played together previously rather than the game we were actually playing? CHECK
Player who wasn't entirely at the table, (what are we fighting again?)? CHECK
GM dropping CORE parts of the rules out of the adventure (don't worry about initiative, you'll act in the order that you're standing in the tunnel)? CHECK
Tricked out power-monkey (2d6+22 melee damage at 5th level), hogging all of the encounters, and complaining when his munchkin-ness wasn't allowed (I'm 6'+ tall and using a great sword, I must have reach)? CHECK
****hole TELLING other players why their characters have been built wrong, and what they MUST do during the encounters (your animal companion cannot follow you with a 5' gap in between, it must be adjacent/cast detect magic now - Ref' he's cast detect magic/etc. etc. etc.)? CHECK
AAARRRGGGHHH!
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Darrell, feel free to get in touch with me to discuss this if you wish(or still need to vent) via these boards...
Please don't, actually.
Vent privately to someone who can make a difference.
Praise publicly so that people feel appreciated.
Threads like this are wandering down paths best left untraveled. If your buddy was able to guess who your table was, others can guess, too. Not liking them is not a valid reason to ridicule them in such a way that they can log on and see everyone piling on with the criticism.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
I think my reply was misread. I was saying to contact me via these boards or the email - private methods of communication. As one of the Venture Captains for England I may well be considered someone who can make a difference
I know. And I hope he does contact you, because I'd rather see you make a difference than see him spread irritation all about.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sheesh folks, the OP just needed to vent his frustrations. The point is not to nit-pick the post and go on a witch-hunt to punish the munchkin, the GM, or whatever. Listen and respond with some encouragement so s/he remains in the community. If additional, followup action is required, I'm sure the local organizers and/or Venture-Officers can handle it more appropriately than we can in a public forum.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
You need 8 BAB to get 6 Power AttackSorry for the stupid question just wanted to know what is +6 PA ? I'm new to PFS play.Power attack. You get 6 total damage from using it with 5 BAB, at the cost of 2 attack.(when using a weapon two handed.)
Is that what you tell people? It starts at one, then at four and every 4 BAB after it goes up by one. With a weapon wielded in two hands it increases by 50%, if its in your offhand or secondary natural attack its -50%. You get 3 damage back per attack given with a 2 handed weapon, so with 4 BAB you lose two attack for 6 damage. Here's the feat, it states it better than I do.
Power Attack (Combat)
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon.
When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2.
You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Then state it correctly the first time. Im well awareof the increase fora two handed weapon. But when someone asks what it is,the answer should include the whole rule rather than a phrase that could easily be misunderstood.
Its how you phrased things. You said you needed 8 BAB for 6 damage from power attack. You stated it as an absolute, and didn't say it in a way that inferred there was anyway to get 6 damage before that. I specifically said when using a 2 handed weapon, no need to correct me.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I had a perfect storm in a miniatures game opponent last week. It was hilarious. (I stopped getting actually up set, and now just recant stories as "look at all these stereotypes!"
so playing heroclix
1) Wait until the game begins, THEN complain about the team i'm playing
2) Complain about dice, First mine being good, then his being poor.
3) Rules Lawyer minor things, and take tons of takebacks (without asking for them)
4) Call it a bad match-up
5) Say that he out-played me, but blame the teams/dice whatever. for his loss
RPGs have a similar grouping of stereotypes. Top 10 :)
1) after the first encounter, complain about "how we're going to die horribly" because "we don't have a cleric"
2) Complain about dice, first theirs, then the GMs, then the other players.
3) Rules Lawyer every little thing "you didn't SAY you put your shield away take your armor check penalty for climbing...
4) Insult other player's builds
5) Call the GM a "cheater" or say they are "targeting you unfairly"
6) the "I shouldn't have to run away" crowd.
7) The Munchkin (RE: cheater)
8) The inattentive
9) the Pungent (RE: never showers)
10)The Boss (EVERYONE MUST DO AS I SAY!!!!!)
but in all honesty. It's not usually that bad, sometimes you'll get perfect stormed, but afterwards, you just move on with life and have a good time :)
|
|
I have only had one such issue, but I have limited in person play. Most of my experience is via PbP, and for whatever reason, I never seem to encounter bad players online. My solution was:
1) Early game, I passed GM a note that explained my build features I thought his quick ruling were nullifying, and why, with citations.
2) Later, I explained that while I was aware many races go a bonus to X. I happen to like race Y. I like class Z. It didn't matter to me that I lost +2 to stat X. Paying what I want rather than a speed sheet of crunched numbers makes the game more fun for me. To each their own.
3) At the end, I sent a short concise list to an near by region VC (no VCs in my state). Just the facts ma'am, no personal attacks, no comments on various rudeness, just things like: Went around table for initiative during combat. My control wizard likes to go first, ended up going fourth, despite investing heavily in initiative bonuses, etc.
Edit: Emphasized the goal was to educate the GM, not a punitive request.
4) Let it go.
5) Kept playing.
4) and 5) are the most important two.
|
|
This sort of stuff is exactly why I don't go to many conventions these days. There's simply too much 'bad' you're exposing yourself for the chance to meet new and interesting people.
PFS needs some fail-safe options to save people from terrible experiences.
Umm . . . You mean like limiting the game to 4-5 hours? :-)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No, I mean like the option to decline credit for playing a scenario in the interest of playing it again and getting a better experience or a system to report hostile DMs or players.
Reporting to a Venture Captain isn't a good solution as, in my experience, Venture Captains are just as likely to be part of the problem.
|
|
This sort of stuff is exactly why I don't go to many conventions these days. There's simply too much 'bad' you're exposing yourself to for the chance to meet new and interesting people.
PFS needs some fail-safe options to save people from terrible experiences.
Meeting new and interesting people is worth ANY risk IMHO. Yeah you meet some (a lot) of bad people out there, but that is no reason to stop trying to meet the good ones.
|
|
Spending a grand on flight and lodging and then sitting out two slots is not cost effective.
Even if that grand does get me an awesome picture of a defeated Kyle.
Spending a grand that is not easily disposable income is a valid reason to not do something. I wouldn't spend a grand for a chance to meet new and interesting people either (mainly because I can't afford to spend that kind of money between all my other hobbies). But that doesn't rule out local cons that I am sure have a much lower price tag :P .
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No, I mean like the option to decline credit for playing a scenario in the interest of playing it again and getting a better experience or a system to report hostile DMs or players.
The fail-safe already exists: Walk. Away. From. The. Table. Do it before 3 encounters are completed and you do not get a chronicle. Vote with your feet.
|
|
It would be nice if people who create strong characters are not compared to cheaters, thank you!
7) The Munchkin (RE: cheater)
No in this case, cheater is appropriate. The guy was demanding reach with his greatsword because he was a tall character. Besides which, the term munchkin generally refers to players who stretch the rules if not out right break them. People who make uber characters sometimes end up there, but are generally called optimizers or power gamers.
|
|
No, I mean like the option to decline credit for playing a scenario in the interest of playing it again and getting a better experience or a system to report hostile DMs or players.
The fail-safe already exists: Walk. Away. From. The. Table. Do it before 3 encounters are completed and you do not get a chronicle. Vote with your feet.
I thought this was the case but one of the last games I played in the DM linked a post from Brock stating that the moment you hear the scenario intro you're locked in.
Can someone clear this up?
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No in this case, cheater is appropriate. The guy was demanding reach with his greatsword because he was a tall character.
He wasn't contesting the claim that the guy in the OP's story was trying to cheat.
Besides which, the term munchkin generally refers to players who stretch the rules if not out right break them. People who make uber characters sometimes end up there, but are generally called optimizers or power gamers.
Perhaps the circles you run in use the term that way, but lots of people use the term "munchkin" to include unquestionably legal optimization. There was a thread recently in Advice, for instance, titled "How do you get players to stop being munchkins?" and the offending PC was a monk with good AC.
Heck, if you search a section of the forums for the word, many of the hits will have nothing to do with questionable rules interpretations or outright cheating.Given those facts, I don't think it's an unreasonable request that system mastery and cheating not be treated as comparable behaviors by applying the same name to both.
|
|
No, I mean like the option to decline credit for playing a scenario in the interest of playing it again and getting a better experience or a system to report hostile DMs or players.
The fail-safe already exists: Walk. Away. From. The. Table. Do it before 3 encounters are completed and you do not get a chronicle. Vote with your feet.
I thought this was the case but one of the last games I played in the DM linked a post from Brock stating that the moment you hear the scenario intro you're locked in.
Can someone clear this up?
The balance is against cheaters (who are too cheap/lazy to purchase and pre-read the scenario, I guess) but want to 'scout' the scenario and then play it again later, but better prepared.
If someone regularly engages in this sort of behavior ( which I hope is exceedingly rare), they may want to consider a different hobby. However if the occassional awful gm or body odorific player promises 4-5 hours of misery I don't see why excusing yourself would be inappropriate. Sometimes discretion *IS* the better part of valor.
And you must complete 3 encounters to recieve xp. Or die trying.
Edit: if a party starts the mission and fails before 3 encounters are complete they would still get a chronicle, with 0 xp and probably little/ no gold or PP.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
No, I mean like the option to decline credit for playing a scenario in the interest of playing it again and getting a better experience or a system to report hostile DMs or players.
The fail-safe already exists: Walk. Away. From. The. Table. Do it before 3 encounters are completed and you do not get a chronicle. Vote with your feet.
I thought this was the case but one of the last games I played in the DM linked a post from Brock stating that the moment you hear the scenario intro you're locked in.
Can someone clear this up?
The Guide says that you have to complete at least 3 encounters to get XP, not to get a chronicle sheet.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
So walking away to avoid a bad experience doesn't really help.
You sit down, the DM starts the intro and suddenly you realize you're at a nightmare table. You can walk away but you still get a chronicle (in this case a minimal one) and you're still screwed.
Walk away... fast?
:/|
|
So walking away to avoid a bad experience doesn't really help.
Well, I personally prefer to minimize unpleasant experiences, but ymmv.
You sit down, the DM starts the intro and suddenly you realize you're at a nightmare table. You can walk away but you still get a chronicle (in this case a minimal one) and you're still screwed.
If you left after encounter #1, and then protested the game to your local VC (or to Mike Brock since we VCs are a 'part of the problem') it would be very likely to be reversed. Who gets the refund- the diner who sends the plate back after a few bites or the one who licks it clean?