Double Weapon Firearms


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Does.. a Axe Musket count as a double weapon, as the normal double weapon rules? In other words.. Can it be 'duel' wielded?

Grand Lodge

Nothing to hel ?


I don't think so, no. It's only considered a double weapon for purposes of crafting, not for fighting.

The whole point of this weapon is that you have a ranged weapon (musket) and a melee weapon (axe) in the same package, so you do not have to change weapon, can make attacks of opportunity while fighting at range, etc.

Grand Lodge

Well you couldn't make AoO if fighting at range if that was the case.. I don't think.


No, but if you are shooting with the musket end and a foe pops up next to you, you can whack them with the axe.

Grand Lodge

So.. unlike other double weapons.. you don't get increased attack ability when using two-handed fighting.. but it functions completely as one solid weapons through and through.

Grand Lodge

However, I would say that you threaten with an axe-musket, which you do not with a musket. Since it is a melee weapon and a ranged weapon!

Not that Vera would ever let me get such a thing. Why she was downright orn'ry when I picked up that buckler-gun. I even told her it was just for signaling' and the like, but you know how pissy a musket can be. She'll fergive me right soon enough. Didn't she mke 'er point when he blasted the last big-bad we faced right twix 'is eyes?

But a musket-ax? She prolly wouldna shoot or days were I to buy me one of dem. and I wouldna blame her.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It is not actually a double weapon.

It does not have that property.

When determining crafting, and enchantment costs, it counts as a double.

That is the only time that comes up.

Not a double weapon.


As a corollary, when two-handed fighting with a double weapon, you count it as wielding a one-handed and light weapon for the purpose of determining TWF attack penalties so you can't say "Oh, the off-hand end of my double-sword is now a light weapon so I can use Weapon Finesse and Piranha Strike with it".

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Does the description not the firearm having the Double weapon property?

No.

None of them are actually Double weapons.


Espy Kismet wrote:
So.. unlike other double weapons..

Er, you need to correct that too: "unlike double weapons."

It's not a double weapon, it is merely enchanted like a double weapon. Otherwise, there is no relation. It's a single weapon you can use in two different ways.

Grand Lodge

So.. Is a dagger pistol really 1h or light? If I don't shoot it, would it still be light? Does this mean that Sword Cane Pistol actually does qualify for black blade, cause it isn't actually a double weapon but a sword cane with a pistol attached?


A sword-cane is considered a one-handed weapon; a dagger is a light weapon; a pistol is a one-handed firearm [weapon]. I would say yes, that they all qualify.

Technically, a light or one-handed weapon with the double quality should still qualify; the fact that it has the double quality doesn't remove it from its base weapon category.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

None of them have the double quality.

I keep saying it.

Grand Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:

None of them have the double quality.

I keep saying it.

Right. So if none of them have the double weapon quality, that would mean that they should really just be looked at as two separate weapons with something else attached.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Indeed.

The "double" only come to light when determining costs for masterwork, special materials, and enchantments.

That is it.


Ævux wrote:
Does.. a Axe Musket count as a double weapon, as the normal double weapon rules? In other words.. Can it be 'duel' wielded?

No. See BBT's very clear and definitive answer. If they don't have the "double" weapon property, they do not gain the benefits of a double weapon.

Also, the only real reason for having the dual enchantment costs is so, as Dabbler says, you can threaten close range for AoO's with an axe that's enchanted separately from the musket.


Espy Kismet wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

None of them have the double quality.

I keep saying it.

Right. So if none of them have the double weapon quality, that would mean that they should really just be looked at as two separate weapons with something else attached.

You got it. They are two different weapons attached to one another, and you use them in an either/or sense, not an either/and sense. Your Axe Musket is an Axe OR a Musket. A quarterstaff is a club at one end AND a club at the other end.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Barry Armstrong wrote:
Ævux wrote:
Does.. a Axe Musket count as a double weapon, as the normal double weapon rules? In other words.. Can it be 'duel' wielded?

No. See BBT's very clear and definitive answer. If they don't have the "double" weapon property, they do not gain the benefits of a double weapon.

Also, the only real reason for having the dual enchantment costs is so, as Dabbler says, you can threaten close range for AoO's with an axe that's enchanted separately from the musket.

Right, I've seen it over and over.. And with his very clear answer, its very clear that one could use the sword cane part of the weapon for Black Blade, as the sword Cane pistol is more like an adamantine sword cane than it is a double sword.


Re: The double quality - I'm aware that the sword cane pistol and the pistol dagger don't have that quality. :P I was pointing out that, theoretically if there were a light- or one-handed double (slashing) weapon, it should still qualify for black blade.

For example, a double-ended dagger (which was a semi-common formal weapon in India) should qualify.

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