i see no reason why a person can take weapon focus (ray) and have that bonus doubled, but not be able to double the bonus from weapon focus (longsword) if the weapon they create with shadow weapon is a longsword. you are specifically choosing longsword when you create your spell because you are good with it, and even more so because you have weapon focus in it, just like you are really good with using a ray as a weapon if you have weapon focus (ray), why would spell perfection effect one weapons weapon focus, but not the other? that is irrational. both weapons are being created by a spell (so spell perfection applies) and both are weapons you can have weapon focus in (so weapon focus applies).
the only argument i can see being made, is that you would need Weapon Focus (Shadow Weapon - Longsword) instead of just (longsword) as the listed feat to get the bonus, this would mean that you would not have weapon focus with normal longswords. i disagree that this would be proper, but i can see an argument for it.
one thing is for sure though - if this IS allowable, the +to damage from power attack gets doubled, but so does the -to hit from it. so while it might jack up your damage, it would make it REALLY hard to hit with it...At least in regards to this, no it wouldn't be an issue (all the more reason it shouldn't be allowed). Only bonuses are called out as being doubled. So if this did work (which I do not believe it does), the penalty to hit would not be doubled because it is not a "bonus".
if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
i would argue that a bonus and a penalty are one in the same. the difference being that "bonus" identifies integers higher than 0 and "penalty" identifies those below 0. but i see your point from a RAW point of view. however this game DOES require logic and common sense to play. and logic tells us that "bonuses" and "penalties" are all numbers on the same scale. as proof, look at the table for "bonuses for having high ability scores" where there are negative numbers listed for anything under 10. having an 8 Strength score doesnt give you a "bonus of -1", it gives you a "penalty of -1" whenever identified within the books at other places.
Also, somehow I have never noticed or paid attention to that line in power attack. Perhaps because it was never relevant before...
ok, i think i have found the answer to how power attack works with this. i was rather disappointed that i found this, because i was rooting for it working, but it turns out that it doesn't, and here is why:
earlier i stated that i believed that there were two kinds of numerical values within spells and feats. those were dice and numbers not rolled on dice. turns out i was wrong. there are three - dice (1D6+1 per caster level and 5 fire), set numerical values (1D6+1 per caster level and 5 fire), and level based numerical values (1D6+1 per caster level and 5 fire).
this is where i found the third number type:
Benefit: Select one spell of a school for which you have taken the Spell Focus feat. Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell.
Every time you gain an even level in the spellcasting class you chose your spell from, you can choose a new spell to replace the spell selected with this feat, and that spell becomes your specialized spell.
so because i found this i have no choice but to say that Spell Perfection would not apply to Power attack because Power attack ready identically to other Level-variable effects that you find in spells, so i have to consider it a level-variable effect and thus does not get doubled by Spell Perfection.
here is power attack and a similarly worded spell to affirm my belief:
When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2.
You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Alternatively, you can affect as many as 50 arrows, bolts, or bullets. The projectiles must be of the same kind, and they have to be together (in the same quiver or other container). Projectiles, but not thrown weapons, lose their transmutation after they are used. Treat shuriken as projectiles, rather than as thrown weapons, for the purpose of this spell.
so that issue is dead. simply put, Power Attack is NOT a "Set Numerical Bonus" and does not get modified by Spell Perfection.
i still want to know weather Weapon Focus gets doubled for a shadow weapon, though.
I wouldn't allow Weapon Focus (relevant weapon) or Power Attack to have their bonuses doubled by Spell Perfection. The bonuses from Improved Trip and Greater Trip also wouldn't be doubled if I use the weapon to make a trip attack.
These are bonuses associated with the casting of the spell. These bonuses don't apply to aspects of the spell, not how I understand it anyway.
Weapon Focus (Ray) is relevant if your Perfected Spell is something like Enervation. If this works as is claimed, then shouldn't it work in perpetuity if your chosen spell was Masterwork Transformation?
Thanks for pointing this out, improved trip would work as well. Think about using telekenesis to trip, improved trip would be modifying what you can do with the spell.
Also, weapon focus(relevant weapon) seems to be stated in the description of spell perfection.
Weapon Focus(Ray) is a feat that modifies your attack roll with a spell that is a ray.
Weapon Focus(Scimitar) modifies your attack roll with a spell that is a scimitar.
What is the difference? I think you are mentally adding limitations to the feat that aren't there.
So, logic should go like this:
Is is a feat?
Is it applying a set numerical bonus?
Is it applying that bonus to any aspect of the spell?
Then double that numerical bonus!
That's how I see it as well.
ok, i think i have found the answer to how power attack works with this. i was rather disappointed that i found this, because i was rooting for it working, but it turns out that it doesn't, and here is why:
earlier i stated that i believed that there were two kinds of numerical values within spells and feats. those were dice and numbers not rolled on dice. turns out i was wrong. there are three - dice (1D6+1 per caster level and 5 fire), set numerical values (1D6+1 per caster level and 5 fire), and level based numerical values (1D6+1 per caster level and 5 fire).
this is where i found the third number type:
** spoiler omitted **
so because i found this i have no choice but to say that Spell Perfection would not apply to Power attack because Power attack ready identically to other Level-variable effects that you find in spells, so i have to consider it a level-variable effect and thus does not get doubled by Spell Perfection.
here is power attack and a similarly worded spell to affirm my belief:
** spoiler omitted **...
This seems plausible. That is the point that I mainly wanted to touch on, the other arguments in this thread seem obvious.
My main inquiry is: Is power attack considered a set numerical bonus.
the word "set" to me can mean different things... but mainly I take it to mean "fixed to something or not random, arranged in advance."
In that way, power attack would be a set numerical bonus, because it is fixed to level, it's not random, and it is arranged in advance.
Level dependent bonuses seem to be set bonuses to me. They are determined by outlying circumstances.
Let me give another example. Allied Spellcaster.
The bonuses in this feat, are they not set numerical bonuses?
Does the fact that I need to be adjacent to a spellcaster mean that they are not set?
Does the fact that they have the possibility of increasing mean that they are not set? (if the spellcaster shares my spell)
I think this spell would benefit by spell perfection.
What do you think would happen with Allied Spellcaster + Spell Perfection?
In that case the +2 and +4 would be doubled, but the +1 for level dependent would not.
In that case the +2 and +4 would be doubled, but the +1 for level dependent would not.
Don't forget, that bonus is a set numerical bonus... which is modifying a level dependent number.
Regardless, you think the original portion should be doubled.
So, here is another question:
Why is a bonus which is increases depending on character position (or spells) "set", while a bonus which increases depending on character level is "not set"?
I wouldn't allow Weapon Focus (relevant weapon) or Power Attack to have their bonuses doubled by Spell Perfection. The bonuses from Improved Trip and Greater Trip also wouldn't be doubled if I use the weapon to make a trip attack.
These are bonuses associated with the casting of the spell. These bonuses don't apply to aspects of the spell, not how I understand it anyway.
Weapon Focus (Ray) is relevant if your Perfected Spell is something like Enervation. If this works as is claimed, then shouldn't it work in perpetuity if your chosen spell was Masterwork Transformation?
Thanks for pointing this out, improved trip would work as well. Think about using telekenesis to trip, improved trip would be modifying what you can do with the spell.
Also, weapon focus(relevant weapon) seems to be stated in the description of spell perfection.
It says "Weapon Focus (Ray)" not "Weapon Focus".
Telekinesis is a separate matter. I understand you think I'm adding limitations not listed in the spell. I, on the other hand, think you're adding benefits not listed in the spell.
Seriously, would you allow these same bonuses to work on a weapon made via Masterwork Transformation or Fabricate or something like that? If not, why not?
It doesn't stand to reason to me that you could use a Shadow Weapon (which is partially real) to hit harder than you could with an actual weapon, just because you've got the Spell Perfection feat.
No. I would not allow them with Fabricate/Masterwork Transformation. I would not allow them because the sword you wield after using this spell cannot be dispelled. It's no longer a spell.
The Shadow Weapon is a spell. It has a duration, it can be dispelled.
It would hit harder than an actual weapon because the wizard who cast it has mastered that spell to such an extent that all of his knowledge which benefits that spell... benefits it doubly so.
If the wizard took weapon specialization(longsword) and then made a longsword... it would do +4 damage because even though the wizard is good at dealing damage with longswords.... he is AWESOME at dealing damage with his shadow weapon longsword.
It does NOT just say "weapon focus (ray)" it says feats LIKE "weapon focus (ray). Its only listing that particular one as an example. To say that weapon focus (longsword) is not "like" weapon focus (ray) is arguing with stupidity.
My 2 cents: I think it is RAW, but not RAI. Still an interesting idea worth a FAQ IMHO.